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Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 2:20:09 AM   
CaptainKoloth

 

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I'm really interested in and excited for this, can you give us some details about what this will be like?

< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 1/31/2018 10:16:27 PM >
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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 2:40:14 AM   
Jason Petho


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I'm presently building the Iranian general organizations 1948-1988 (maybe 1991)

Most of the scenarios will cover the various phases of the Iran-Iraq War, but I have found some information in the decades leading to the war that could make for some interesting fighting.

Here's a preliminary list:

quote:

June-September 1947 - Numerous clashes with Azerbaijani and Kurdish rebels (using guerrilla and ambush tactics) vs Iranian troops (motorized, tanks and tactical aircraft).

September 1948 - Iran border guard company at Qulan successful defence vs Soviet-Azerbaijani irregular force.

September-October 1948 - Numerous border clashes with Iran border guards/Infantry vs Soviet-Azerbaijani irregular force.

April 1952 - Iranian troops sent to southwestern Iran to impose martial law after local governor was beheaded. 250 casualties in clash of clearing town. Reinforced motorized company vs tribal militia.

March 1953 - Iranian troops clashing with Bakhtiari tribesmen in the oil fields of southern Iran in an effort to disarm the tribesmen. Tactical aircraft were required to restore order. Heavy casualties for both sides. Understrength infantry battalion vs numerous tribal militia.


August 1979 - Iranian Revolutionary Guard (mechanized battalion) ambushed and destroyed at Paveh by large force of Kurdish Peshmerga.

August 1979 - Siege of Mahabad. Assault on city (F-4's + tanks + artillery)

October 1979 - Kursdish Peshmerga return to Mahabad and engage in street fighting (RPG's and Molotov's) against mechanized garrison.

May 1980 - Mechanized Divisions seizing many large cities (Sanandaj, Pawe, Marivan) in coordinated assault. Many villages/suburbs destroyed. Kurdish Peshmerga held out in Mahabad.

August 1980 - Failed assault on Mahabad.


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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 2:47:27 AM   
CaptainKoloth

 

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Oo, I can’t wait... this is scheduled for sometime next year?

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 2:48:12 AM   
Jason Petho


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Yeppers... Hopefully the summer next year it should be ready.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 2:50:03 AM   
CaptainKoloth

 

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Fantastic! Can’t wait! Any chance of chemical warfare being incorporated?

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 2:51:10 AM   
Jason Petho


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That is on the hit-list of must have's for the DLC to be released. Yes.

The rules, extent of their use and how they impact ground forces still need to be determined though.



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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 2:58:55 AM   
CaptainKoloth

 

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Sounds very cool, definitely on my list.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 3:00:48 AM   
Jason Petho


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Woo hoo! That's great news!

If you can think of things you would like to see for the DLC, this would be the place for it.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 10:07:47 PM   
athineos


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I think with the DLC, you guys should consider bringing back the sliders that were part of the random Map generator. The ME never incorporated it like the earlier version of JTCS and the random map sliders makes it so much more easier to make a random map to your liking.
One of the major reasons why I would not buy the ME series ( I have the JTCS) is there is no sliders for random map generation. At least can you offer it as a plug-in?
Thanks
Dimitri

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 10:13:58 PM   
berto


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Sorry this is a deal breaker for you, but we are unlikely to bring the random map sliders back. One reason being there are far more terrain types than there used to be.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/7/2017 10:24:05 PM   
CaptainKoloth

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

Woo hoo! That's great news!

If you can think of things you would like to see for the DLC, this would be the place for it.


Very cool! Well in addition to chemical warfare, some things that come to mind as defining for or unique to the conflict in somewhat descending order of priority:
a) Frogmen/amphibious troops as they were a major Pasdaran component on the Iranian side in some of the more unique battles
b) Iraqi-Kurdish insurgent confrontations?
c) Human wave units for the Basij
d) An entrenchment mechanic (trench warfare)
e) Perhaps a what-if scenario or two - Iraqis more successful and reach outskirts of Dezful? Iranians attack Basra? Iranians much more successful and Americans intervene?

The other major elements that come to mind defining the Iran-Iraq War for me are the tanker war and the SCUD/airstrikes on cities, but it doesn't seem to me that one could implement either of those.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 12/29/2017 8:03:37 PM   
Hoplite1963

 

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Iranian army special forces units were also (along with the British SAS) involved in supporting government forces in the Omani Civil War. (1963–76)

With regard to introducing chemical weapons into CSME and the series more generally this will have a range of applications quite apart from the Iran Iraq war.

1. Choking agents Mustard gas and nerve gas were used by Egyptian forces in the civil war in the Yemen in the 1960’s, a conflict already covered in CSME.
2. Both the Americans and the North Vietnamese used Tear Gas in the Vietnam War.
3. Mustard gas was used by the Italians when they invaded Abyssinia in 1935.
4. And then of course there is always WW1 and its associated conflicts in which chemical weapons were used on a large scale. The CS Great War Mod already has a generic chemical weapon round for artillery pieces and gas projectors. Gas shells are available for both sides in my “Treat ‘Em Rough” 1919 scenario for the mod available for download on the “The Blitz” website.

Perhaps we need a separate thread to discuss how chemical weapons should be handled for the CS series generally?

Regards
Ian


< Message edited by Hoplite1963 -- 12/29/2017 8:06:02 PM >

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/17/2018 10:08:33 PM   
CaptainKoloth

 

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Some other battles that I think are must haves for this given their historical importance to the war:

Operation Nasr tank battles in early 1981
Seizure and occupation (in 1980) and retaking of Khoramsharr (1982)
Marsh battles and occupation of Majnoon Island in 1984
Iranian invasion of Faw peninsula early 1986
Failed Iranian assault on Basra late 1986/early 1987



< Message edited by CaptainKoloth -- 1/17/2018 10:09:46 PM >

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/17/2018 10:30:54 PM   
Jason Petho


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Thank you for all the information, gentlemen!

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/19/2018 2:01:14 AM   
Af1352pasha

 

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Hi

Is there any source for Iranian order of battle in 1980? As i know there is a several type of equipment which used by armored division.
Following Type of battalion was common in armored brigade and armored division:

Tank Battalions with Chieftain MBT total 53 Tanks plus supporting unit such as mortar.
Tank Battalions with M-60, M-47 or M-48.
Mechanized Infantry battalion with APC such as BPM-1, M113 , BTR-60 and BTR-50.
Armored Cavalry Battalions with 21 scorpion tank and supporting infantry , Mortar carrier and M113 Tow carrier.



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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/19/2018 2:25:15 AM   
Jason Petho


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I found a few PDFs out there so far, and also bought some micromark lists detailing the the 80s.

Finding orbats for the 40s, 50s and 60s. I think you’ll be pleased with the efforts!

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/19/2018 2:36:06 AM   
Af1352pasha

 

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I will try to send you some accurate information soon, Also I can try for editing some scenario in early stage of war.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/19/2018 2:43:08 AM   
Jason Petho


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That would be greatly appreciated.

When I am back at home, I will post a few samples of what I have done so far

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/21/2018 1:14:39 PM   
Hexagon


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I miss this post, sounds interesting the DLC but here i am curious about a possible gulf war DLC... i remember read time ago that you plan another title covering cold war conflicts and a pure hipotetical WWIII title, you mantein this idea or everything set in middle east and the countries around it is going to be a DLC for CM and not placed in an historical coldwar period title???

Good luck with DLC and waiting the info about it.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/21/2018 1:40:57 PM   
Crossroads


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Gulf War would be a candidate for CS Middle East DLC, but of course the game mechanics would need to be updated to 1991. The Iran-Iraq War takes those to 1989, so close but not quite the proverbial bingo. 1991 marked the end of cold war, and, likely, marks where the CS eras would end as well. Having said that, 1991 is some way off still.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/21/2018 2:42:55 PM   
nukkxx5058


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Iran-Iraq sounds great ! 1991 Gulf war too,
post 911 middle east war would be good too (Iraq, afghanistan, recent syrian conflict)

I'm definietly interested.

< Message edited by nukkxx -- 1/21/2018 2:43:54 PM >

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/21/2018 4:02:50 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

Iran-Iraq sounds great ! 1991 Gulf war too,
post 911 middle east war would be good too (Iraq, afghanistan, recent syrian conflict)

I'm definietly interested.

Post-1991 'conflicts' are more or less asymmetric rather than field armies facing each others. IMHO, those 'little nasty wars' are best simulated on a squad/fire-team base per unit.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/21/2018 4:46:16 PM   
Jason Petho


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Cold War will be a separate game, we have a pre-Alpha build already, but it’s not due in the queue for a couple years.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/21/2018 6:08:48 PM   
Hexagon


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Thanks for the info.

Well, i ask about DLCs because i know that you talk about a pure "historical" cold war title (i remember coment about Iran-Irak inclusion, you talk about India-Pakistan wars, Korea??? even South Africa wars) and maybe a 2nd "what if" title in a more serious WWIII with the main actors (ala Tiller modern campaigns).

Read about an Iran-Irak war DLC for CM was somethign unexpected because i expect it in a new title... this is why i ask to about Gulf war because is a title that could enter in CM area or in a cold war historical wars title.

I think that for Gulf war only thing that game really needs is deal with thermal vision systems... this could be done like in Steel Panthers with an "all time" vision range for vehicles using them, for example an Abrams can allways see what is in 4 hexes all around in night or low visibility situations, of course in a WWIII title things like mines deployed by arty is needed (i dont know well if as is game now MLRS are well covered or not).

Post 91 wars are more based in minor actions with a lot of guerrilla warfare but well, is question to add more meat to the action, is like in a WWIII title have same scens set in diferent years... you can try same situation with 50s-70s-80s hardware

I am curious if in Iran-Irak war all is going to be based in historical battles or we can have some "hipotetical" scens-campaigns because both sides have interesting material to have good scens but is not like they used them at 100% (i still remember "Flight commander 2" Irak campaign with Mirages hehehe) and well, is even possible see some exotic things like Type 69 QM2 with the 125mm gun from Assad Babyl "do it yourself"

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/21/2018 6:23:44 PM   
CaptainKoloth

 

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Actually Iraq used Mirage F-1s extensively in the Iran-Iraq and Gulf Wars.

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/21/2018 6:41:32 PM   
Jason Petho


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Cold War might up being a mix of historical and hypothetical, lots of ideas but nothing 100% commited yet. DLCs for the core game may be based on certain areas, events or something.

Iran-Iraq War DLCwill be mostly historical, with a possible hypothetical included.

< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 1/21/2018 6:42:02 PM >


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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/22/2018 6:30:31 AM   
Jason Petho


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Here are some sample Iranian divisions:

79 01 83 12 D5740220 4 Armoured Division 79 - Shir1/M113A1 - B - Ir - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P573004 Division HQ
79 01 83 12 G5730234 Armoured Brigade 79 - Shir1/M113A1 - B - Ir
79 01 83 12 G5730237 Armoured Brigade 79 - M60/M113A1 - B - Ir
79 01 83 12 B5711226 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-109x6
79 01 83 12 B5711229 Howitzer Battalion 79 - M101A1 105mmx6/M35
79 01 83 12 B5716210 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 79 - FV101 Scorpion/BMP-1 - Ir
79 01 83 12 B5715209 Engineer Battalion 79 - Armoured Support
79 01 83 12 B5713204 Anti-Tank Battalion 79 - M150/M151A2-TOW
79 01 88 12 B5718210 Anti-Aircraft Battalion 79 - Mechanized - ZSU-57-2/ZSU-23-4
79 01 88 12 P577036 M35

79 01 83 12 D5742233 3 Mechanized Infantry Division 79 - M47M 90mm - C - US - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P573004 Division HQ
79 01 83 12 G5732251 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm/BTR-60PB - C - US
79 01 83 12 G5732251 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm/BTR-60PB - C - US
79 01 83 12 B5711226 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-109x6
79 01 83 12 B5711228 Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-46 130mmx6/M35
79 01 83 12 B5716209 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 79 - FV101 Scorpion/EE-9/M113 - Ir
79 01 83 12 B5715210 Engineer Battalion 79 - Motorized
79 01 83 12 B5713205 Anti-Tank Battalion 79 - M151-SS11/M825-106mm
79 01 88 12 B5718210 Anti-Aircraft Battalion 79 - Mechanized - ZSU-57-2/ZSU-23-4
79 01 88 12 P577036 M35


81 01 83 12 D5740222 5 Armoured Division 81 - Shir1 Mk-5 - A - Ir - 0VP
81 01 83 12 P573004 Division HQ
81 01 83 12 G5730233 Armoured Brigade 79 - Shir1 Mk-5 - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 G5730233 Armoured Brigade 79 - Shir1 Mk-5 - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 B5711226 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-109x6
81 01 83 12 B5711229 Howitzer Battalion 79 - M101A1 105mmx6/M35
81 01 83 12 B5716210 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 79 - FV101 Scorpion/BMP-1 - Ir
81 01 83 12 B5715209 Engineer Battalion 79 - Armoured Support
81 01 83 12 B5713204 Anti-Tank Battalion 79 - M150/M151A2-TOW
81 01 88 12 B5718210 Anti-Aircraft Battalion 79 - Mechanized - ZSU-57-2/ZSU-23-4
81 01 88 12 P577036 M35


81 01 83 12 D5742237 5 Mechanized Infantry Division 81 - M47M 90mm - A - Ir - 0VP
81 01 83 12 P573004 Division HQ
81 01 83 12 G5732249 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 G5732249 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 G5732249 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M47M 90mm - A - Ir
81 01 83 12 B5711226 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-109x6
81 01 83 12 B5711229 Howitzer Battalion 79 - M-46 130mmx6/M35
81 01 83 12 B5716209 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 79 - FV101 Scorpion/EE-9/M113 - Ir
81 01 83 12 B5715210 Engineer Battalion 79 - Motorized
81 01 83 12 B5713205 Anti-Tank Battalion 79 - M151-SS11/M825-106mm
81 01 88 12 B5718210 Anti-Aircraft Battalion 79 - Mechanized - ZSU-57-2/ZSU-23-4
81 01 88 12 P577036 M35


84 01 88 12 D5742241 5 Mechanized Infantry Division 84 - Shir1/M113A1/BTR-60PB - A - Ir - 0VP
84 01 88 12 P573004 Division HQ
84 01 88 12 G5732267 Mechanized Brigade 84 - BMP-1/BTR-60PB - A - Ir
84 01 88 12 G5732267 Mechanized Brigade 84 - BMP-1/BTR-60PB - A - Ir
84 01 88 12 G5730242 Armoured Brigade 84 - Shir1 Mk5x14
84 01 88 12 B5711235 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 84 - M-109x6
84 01 88 12 B5711236 Howitzer Battalion 84 - M-46 130mmx6/M35
84 01 88 12 B5716212 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 84 - FV101 Scorpion/EE-9/M113 - Ir
84 01 88 12 B5715212 Engineer Battalion 84 - Armoured Support
84 01 88 12 B5718215 Mechanized Anti-Aircraft Battalion 84 - ZSU-23-4/ZSU-57-2
84 01 88 12 P577036 M35


84 01 88 12 D5742245 4 Mechanized Infantry Division 84 - M60A1/M113A1/BTR-50P/BTR-60PB - B - Ir - 0VP
84 01 88 12 P573004 Division HQ
84 01 88 12 G5732271 Mechanized Brigade 84 - M113A1/BTR-60PB - B - Ir
84 01 88 12 G5732274 Mechanized Brigade 84 - BTR-50P/BTR-60PB - B - Ir
84 01 88 12 G5730243 Armoured Brigade 84 - M60A1x14
84 01 88 12 B5711235 Self-Propelled Howitzer Battalion 84 - M-109x6
84 01 88 12 B5711236 Howitzer Battalion 84 - M-46 130mmx6/M35
84 01 88 12 B5716213 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 84 - FV101 Scorpion/EE-9/BMP-1 - Ir
84 01 88 12 B5715212 Engineer Battalion 84 - Armoured Support
84 01 88 12 B5718215 Mechanized Anti-Aircraft Battalion 84 - ZSU-23-4/ZSU-57-2
84 01 88 12 P577036 M35

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/22/2018 6:32:03 AM   
Jason Petho


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Typical Iranian Division in the 50's.

49 01 62 12 D5742204 5 Infantry Division 49 - A - 0VP
49 01 62 12 P573004 Division HQ
49 01 62 12 R5722204 Infantry Regiment 49 - A
49 01 62 12 R5722204 Infantry Regiment 49 - A
49 01 62 12 R5722204 Infantry Regiment 49 - A
49 01 62 12 R5721202 Artillery Regiment 48 - 105mm Skoda/Wagons
49 01 62 12 P577048 M37

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/22/2018 11:23:33 AM   
Hexagon


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Thanks for the info, nice see some kind of hypothetical content in the DLC.

Is a little strange dont see infantry component in the armored divisions... well, maybe they use together mech and armored divisions.

My only problem is maybe have all split in 2 or even more titles, i prefer allways have 1 single instalation, like in FOG2, and well a WWIII title is allways atractive specially if receive diferent things to complete it.


PD:I refer to the "Flight commander 2" campaign based in tactical situations not 100% historical, i know that Irak used Mirages that was maybe the more well know exportation plane from France in the area (apart Gazelles).

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RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC - 1/22/2018 1:18:06 PM   
Jason Petho


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Sample Armoured Brigade

79 01 83 12 G5730233 5 Armoured Brigade 79 - Shir1/M113A1 - A - Ir - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P573006 Brigade HQ
79 01 83 12 B5710214 Tank Battalion 79 - Shir1 Mk-3
79 01 83 12 B5710215 Tank Battalion 79 - Shir1 Mk5
79 01 83 12 B5712320 Infantry Battalion 79 - A - M113A1 - Ir - Armoured
79 01 83 12 P577005 M577

Sample Mechanized Brigade

79 01 83 12 G5732243 5 Mechanized Brigade 79 - M60/BTR-50P/BTR-60PB - A - Ir - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P573006 Brigade HQ
79 01 83 12 B5710216 Tank Battalion 79 - M60A1
79 01 83 12 B5712394 Infantry Battalion 79 - A - BTR-50P - Ir
79 01 83 12 B5712326 Infantry Battalion 79 - A - BTR-60PB - US
79 01 83 12 P577005 M577



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