Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Stratetic Command: comments after game

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> Stratetic Command: comments after game Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/2/2017 3:25:23 PM   
fulcrum28


Posts: 448
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline
I have just started a full campaign and it is very addictive game, you always want one more turn before saving :). I have some comments I would like to share, so any opinion would be welcome/helpful:

1) the game suffers from the lack of "coordinated attacks" which is probably the essence of warfare. Attacking one by one loses flavor I think. Just attacking one and pulling it back to make "room" to the next unit attack and avoid traffic jump is not so realistic, what do you think on this?

2) Is there no possibility to decompose an Army into two or three corps? or combine two corps into one army?

3)which are the benefit of armies when attacking instead of corps? It seems not visible in any number of factor shown in the screen, since all are strength from 1 to 10.

4) is it not possible to attack bombers or other fighters with your own fighters?

5) By locating fighters adjacent to bombers can maximize the escort level?

Thank you




_____________________________


The most comprehensive website on the IJN Imperial Japanese Navy Y:"Let us enjoy the beauty of the moon (sinking aboard Hiryu)
Post #: 1
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/2/2017 5:10:19 PM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1432
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline
#1 is also a very big issue in the naval combat.
There is no sense of fleet engagements.

_____________________________

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 2
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/2/2017 9:01:14 PM   
xwormwood


Posts: 1145
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline
1. Yes, we all still love Clash of Steel for that feature. :)
2. No, currently there isn't
3. Check the unit details. Each unit has a dozen of different values for soft and hard attack, air defense etc. When you compare an army with a corps, you will understand how valuable your armies are.
4. It is possible to attack bombers or fighters with your fightes. But during an enemy airstrike you can only watch, not interact on your own. On your turn, you can initiate air strikes against enemy air units. You need to target them to attack them. And you will only be able to attack them if they are in range, and if the weather conditions allow flights.
5. Better locate your fighters near the target of your bomber attack. Placing your fighters next to your bombers only helps if your fighter moves closer to the target, else it won't help much if you want to escort your bombers toward a far away target, they get no bonus range from being placed next to a bomber.

_____________________________

"You will be dead, so long as you refuse to die" (George MacDonald)

(in reply to Taxman66)
Post #: 3
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/2/2017 9:34:56 PM   
DeriKuk


Posts: 352
Joined: 8/2/2005
From: Alberta
Status: offline
Fulcrum, it appears that you are in search of a far more realistic combat system.

You may want to look into the "Decisive Campaigns" series: 1) The Blitzkrieg from Warsaw to Paris; 2)Case Blue; and 3) Barbarossa.

These games are all sold by Matrix/Steam, share the same basic system, but each is unique. Start with "Blitzkrieg". The scale is Operational - quite different from SC - but amazingly rich and rewarding. However, be warned; the learning curve is very steep. You will spend many hours figuring it out ... and then find an opponent who really knows what he's doing. It will send you back to the drawing board many time. If you're easily frustrated, it may not be for you.

The benefits of combined arms will become abundantly clear ... and none of this 'carousel of death' combat.

(in reply to xwormwood)
Post #: 4
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/2/2017 10:13:53 PM   
xwormwood


Posts: 1145
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline
Don't listen to him.
:)
Most other wargames suck when it comes to UI and AI.
Stay on the good side of the power, young grognardavan!
;)

_____________________________

"You will be dead, so long as you refuse to die" (George MacDonald)

(in reply to DeriKuk)
Post #: 5
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/3/2017 11:21:24 AM   
fulcrum28


Posts: 448
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline
Yes, the combat process itself, based on unit rotations for attacks, is a bit dissapointing, but the mechanisms are somewhat clearer or simpler than those form HoI3 or HoI4, what do you think about the comparison?

_____________________________


The most comprehensive website on the IJN Imperial Japanese Navy Y:"Let us enjoy the beauty of the moon (sinking aboard Hiryu)

(in reply to xwormwood)
Post #: 6
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/3/2017 11:53:53 AM   
Zecke


Posts: 1331
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Xwormwood

1. Yes, we all still love Clash of Steel for that feature. :)
2. No, currently there isn't
3. Check the unit details. Each unit has a dozen of different values for soft and hard attack, air defense etc. When you compare an army with a corps, you will understand how valuable your armies are.
4. It is possible to attack bombers or fighters with your fightes. But during an enemy airstrike you can only watch, not interact on your own. On your turn, you can initiate air strikes against enemy air units. You need to target them to attack them. And you will only be able to attack them if they are in range, and if the weather conditions allow flights.
5. Better locate your fighters near the target of your bomber attack. Placing your fighters next to your bombers only helps if your fighter moves closer to the target, else it won't help much if you want to escort your bombers toward a far away target, they get no bonus range from being placed next to a bomber.
6. Yes you will be dead, so long as you refuse to die. :)


< Message edited by Zecke -- 12/3/2017 11:55:33 AM >

(in reply to xwormwood)
Post #: 7
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/3/2017 11:57:40 AM   
Zecke


Posts: 1331
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

Yes, the combat process itself, based on unit rotations for attacks, is a bit dissapointing, but the mechanisms are somewhat clearer or simpler than those form HoI3 or HoI4, what do you think about the comparison?


HIGH COMMAND¡

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 8
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/4/2017 12:32:01 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 770
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zecke


quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

Yes, the combat process itself, based on unit rotations for attacks, is a bit dissapointing, but the mechanisms are somewhat clearer or simpler than those form HoI3 or HoI4, what do you think about the comparison?


HIGH COMMAND¡


I used to love that game (and Clash of Steel)

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 9
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/4/2017 10:38:12 PM   
xwormwood


Posts: 1145
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline
Clash of Steel is a great game. Played it again some weeks ago, still a good game, even today.
High Command was not programmed for me. I don't like the UI, no, correct would be "I don't like anything about this game". Can't help it.
Was like this when it was released, and felt the very same when I started it some weeks ago (Archives.org, DosBox).

_____________________________

"You will be dead, so long as you refuse to die" (George MacDonald)

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 10
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/4/2017 11:25:54 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 8854
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
I liked the High Command Production System. I didn't think the UI was bad for 1992, except for the click-fest of moving oil and minerals between factories. The Combat System was, however, quite awful. Up until SC3, I would still often play Third Reich and High Command as a break from other things, and as a visit to the past, and as a way to provoke 'what if' thoughts about future games.

(in reply to xwormwood)
Post #: 11
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/6/2017 1:32:10 AM   
mroyer

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

1) the game suffers from the lack of "coordinated attacks" which is probably the essence of warfare. Attacking one by one loses flavor I think. Just attacking one and pulling it back to make "room" to the next unit attack and avoid traffic jump is not so realistic, what do you think on this?




Yes!! I agree 100% - I've been thoroughly enjoying this game solitaire. But I was very reluctant to invite my gaming buddy to buy it because the operational level feels sooo gumby forcing players to think and move units in very unrealistic ways. I really wish the game had stacking and multi-unit attack/defense - in my opinion it would put the game over the top in the genre.

-Mark R.

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 12
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/6/2017 12:13:47 PM   
nnason


Posts: 414
Joined: 3/4/2016
From: Washington DC Metro Area
Status: offline
1. SC3 is a strategic game. Your observations are valid. If you want an operational feel there are many choices including Matrix's new Operational Art of War.
2. Try user created scenario Fall Weis 9.1

The Navy AI isn't very good. One of the reasons the Axis does so well against the AI at normal levels is Axis with decent play wipes out the Brits and then the USA navy thus making landings very difficult. On the other hand in a player to player game the sea war is hard for both sides. And both sides have to determine how much MPPS to put into sea battle.

Playing against a person is so much more fun and challenging. Get your friend to buy and go at it newby to newby.

Fulcrum28 as a Matrix veteran you know the value of the AAR forum.

_____________________________

Live Long and Prosper,
Noah Nason
LTC Field Artillery
US Army Retired

(in reply to mroyer)
Post #: 13
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/6/2017 1:43:03 PM   
mroyer

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nnason
If you want an operational feel there are many choices including Matrix's new Operational Art of War.


I get what you're saying (I have TOAW and Grigsby's games and others too) and sure, of course your right. But your answer is to a different question (i.e., "What are good operational games?").

Just because there are other good operational-games available, has nothing to do with whether this game SC3 could or could not be better in that aspect. I suspect the real reason SC3 doesn't have the features I perceive as "better" (stacking, multi-unit attack) is because it would require a deep modification to the bowels of the engine-code and be difficult and risky for the developers.

... And, that's fine - this is a great game exactly as is. But, still I wish... it's soo close to being much better than just a great game (from a player perspective at least).

-Mark R.


< Message edited by mroyer -- 12/6/2017 1:45:48 PM >

(in reply to nnason)
Post #: 14
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/6/2017 1:51:08 PM   
mroyer

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nnason
much more fun and challenging. Get your friend to buy and go at it newby to newby.


I finally did. He's a fan of "monster" games with deep thinking required. So I was a bit concerned he'd fail see the depth of SC3 for being blinded by lack of simple stuff like stacking (again, simple from a player perspective, not a developer perspective).

But... he's bought the game, says it looks cool and we're going to give it a go.

-Mark R.


(in reply to nnason)
Post #: 15
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/8/2017 9:37:46 PM   
nnason


Posts: 414
Joined: 3/4/2016
From: Washington DC Metro Area
Status: offline
Mark,
What monster games does your friend play?

When you get your Strat come legs lets have a match.


_____________________________

Live Long and Prosper,
Noah Nason
LTC Field Artillery
US Army Retired

(in reply to mroyer)
Post #: 16
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/10/2017 1:12:56 AM   
mroyer

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nnason

Mark,
What monster games does your friend play?



We use to play table-top Europa, and Europa derivatives, pretty avidly. We played World in Flames for a while and various other stuff here and there. He was never interested in AH Third Reich because it was too unrealistic :) and I feared he'd have the same concern here.

We're sort of new to computer versions of these games - we played Grigsby for a while, but it was very confusing figuring out how much the computer was doing for you behind the scenes and how much you had to control directly. SC3 might be a good balance between easier to play but not too simplistic. Plus, I personally like the grand-strategy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nnason
When you get your Strat come legs lets have a match.



Perhaps. I also wish SC3 were multi-player so we all could join in for a game. :)

-Mark R.

(in reply to nnason)
Post #: 17
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/10/2017 11:22:14 AM   
nnason


Posts: 414
Joined: 3/4/2016
From: Washington DC Metro Area
Status: offline
Mark,
Multiplayer is possible. Look here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4348578&mpage=1&key=�

The Huge ones I player were War in East/War in the West/War in Europe by SPI. Never found anyone willing to play War in the Pacific. Still have those old board War Games. I have yet to try Computer World in Flames by have a game planned.


_____________________________

Live Long and Prosper,
Noah Nason
LTC Field Artillery
US Army Retired

(in reply to mroyer)
Post #: 18
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/10/2017 12:59:08 PM   
mroyer

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 3/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nnason
Multiplayer is possible. Look here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4348578&mpage=1&key=�


Nice, I'll have to take a look at that more closely!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: nnason

The Huge ones I player were War in East/War in the West/War in Europe by SPI. Never found anyone willing to play War in the Pacific. Still have those old board War Games. I have yet to try Computer World in Flames by have a game planned.



I think we played SPI's War in Europe and War in Pacific at one point many decades ago - not sure, hard to remember

Honestly, at a younger age, I use to digest 100's of pages of rules no prob, but now I have trouble reading long rules (I keep falling asleep ) so it makes learning new, complex games problematic. Hopefully, computer-assist will come to my rescue!!

-Mark R.


(in reply to nnason)
Post #: 19
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/10/2017 5:54:33 PM   
sfbaytf

 

Posts: 1002
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
This is your classic beer and pretzels type of game and very entertaining. I have other "more realistic" games but this is highly entertaining and I can't wait for the Pacific and combines Europe and Pacific game to come out. I'll definitely be a buyer.

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 20
RE: Stratetic Command: comments after game - 12/11/2017 9:28:48 AM   
jjdenver

 

Posts: 1839
Joined: 11/2/2007
Status: offline
Agree with the thread. This one is a bit more beer and pretzels...however in the end I see a situation similar to the real war happening in AAR's - i.e. Germany lasting into 1945 and allies struggling to get Berlin. It's a fun game and at a high level seems to basically get the strategic situation about right when 2 humans play.

I also like World in Flames (Matrix version is great imo since it has bigger map and enforces rules for you), TOAW4, and decisive campaigns series as well as the old SSG games (all of them) and Clash of Steel. Each has strong and weak points. For example WIF has a lot of back and forth so a chat system like facebook or whatsapp is needed to keep the game moving along but it's true grand strategy and a beautiful interaction of land, air, naval. TOAW4 doesn't model anything strategic very well at all so that element is (mostly) missing but operational battles seem very interesting and the number of scenarios is outstanding. Clash of Steel doesn't really have a good AI and I can't remember if PBEM is even possible but it's a really fun game. Decisive Campaigns has many clunky aspects imo, just like its' predecessors did but it's quite fun to play. There is also the Schwerpunkt stuff and Panzer Campaigns. I can't comment too much on those since I didn't enjoy them very much although I want to go back to Panzer Campaigns some day.

(in reply to sfbaytf)
Post #: 21
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> Stratetic Command: comments after game Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.160