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I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 11/29/2017 7:54:38 PM   
fcharton

 

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It sounded like a neat idea…

There I was, in the basement of the Imperial Palace, with my old friend, the Lord High Executioner, painting flowers, writing poems, eating fruits, and finishing a third bottle of the Château d’Yquem a new co-prosperous friend from Saigon sent us last week as a tribute. We were past tipsy, closing on wobbly, chatting about clothes, and ceremonies. As far as I can recall, it went like this:

- Have you seen it, Koko?
- What, your holiness?
- Stop calling me that, I’m no pope, I’m an emperor
- Would chief do?
- Yeah, better, anyway, you seen it ?
- What, chief?
- That new warlord uniform I just got. Black robe, leather and nails on the chest, and a dark metal helmet and mask that goes ’hrrr hrrr’ every time I breathe?
- Sounds cool, chief.
- Yeah, I can’t wait to try it on.
- Well, you’re supposed to attend the parade of the 1st garbage collecting squadron, tomorrow…
- I need something bigger, any great victory I could announce?
- We’re short on that, China’s a quagmire, Indochina didn’t even fight, and the Soviets didn’t cooperate the last time we tried.
- Make me one, then. Ask your navy guy, what’s his name? Yama something.

By the time the navy guy arrived, more empty bottles were on the floor and the Lord High Executioner was snoring. One thing lead to another and the next morning, at breakfast, I found out I had signed an order to attack the American fleet, in a very bold move that would probably live in infamy. Darn it!


So here we go. We will be playing stock scenario 1, with PDU off. Home rules, if any, have yet to be decided. I am starting work on the first turn, so the war should begin in a few days. Zuluhour, you're welcome for a few days...






< Message edited by fcharton -- 11/29/2017 7:58:19 PM >
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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 11/29/2017 8:10:02 PM   
Lecivius


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This should be entertaining

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 11/29/2017 8:16:24 PM   
obvert


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I like it! Glad to see you starting another game up. I look forward to some musical updates.

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 11/30/2017 3:41:53 AM   
PaxMondo


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Francois,

Can't wait to follow and read!

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 11/30/2017 3:53:54 AM   
witpqs


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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/1/2017 1:30:48 AM   
Bif1961


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Well it seems like Christmas came early and another wonderful AAR under my tree, or is that in my stocking?

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/1/2017 1:35:50 AM   
Mundy


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You should have fun. Kurt's a good guy to play.

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/1/2017 3:16:07 PM   
Lowpe


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Welcome back to to digital war...your AAR has been missed. Good luck!

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/1/2017 10:54:18 PM   
zuluhour


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WHATS GOING ON IN HERE?!!




Attachment (1)

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/1/2017 10:54:18 PM   
zuluhour


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WHATS GOING ON IN HERE?!!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to fcharton)
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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/1/2017 10:54:18 PM   
zuluhour


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WHATS GOING ON IN HERE?!!




Attachment (1)

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/1/2017 11:04:05 PM   
BillBrown


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Zulu, you really need to fix your multiple post problem.

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Post #: 12
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/2/2017 2:19:53 AM   
Rio Bravo


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I will be following your AAR from the beginning Francois!

Have fun.

Best Regards,

-Terry

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/2/2017 9:53:43 PM   
fcharton

 

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2nd of December 1941 (2S 136), Imperial Palace, the map room

- … this little piggy goes here (click), and this little piggy goes… there… and… (click)
(enters the Lord High Executioner, black gown and slippers, his ceremonial double axe in one hand, a large glass bottle with gothic letters in the other)
- hey chief, today’s 2S, care for a beer?
- Later, Eugène. Let me finish the China shuffle first (click)
(the Lord High Executioner lays down on a couch, and begins clipping his toe nails with his double axe)
- By the way, chief, I couldn’t find those pewter mugs your nervous friend from Germany sent us.
- Bet you couldn’t, first time I tried to use them, I smeared the front of my ceremonial shirt, the pale blue silk one, with lace and sequins. And no amount of physical violence exerted upon the imperial launderers and their families could get it clean again. I sent the mugs back to Adolphe, filled with assorted pieces of his cultural attaché.
- Serves him right. He must have been mad at you.
- He sure was. No way we’ll get the extra supply, oil, fuel, and the new technologies he offered a while ago. This is scenario one, Eugène, the dire straits, the harsh realities, we’re broke, no new toys, realistic research and air production, PP for borders and stacking limits. Besides, Adolphe and Ben told me they won’t help with India.
- I’s ok, chief, we got that old bushido magic, and we’ll do China instead,
- Quite so, Eugène, quite so. Speaking of which… (click, click, click) Eh, no nail clippings on my satin couch, and careful with that axe, Eugène !
- …. Aaaahhh, my pinkie, my pinkie!
- Nurse ! nurse ! There was an accident involving the Lord High Executioner…




While I am working on the first turn, here is some background, and a few ideas I would like to try.

We are playing stock scenario 1, with PDU off, stacking limits, and JWE’s new airplane statistics. We have no house rules, but we have agreed to pay full political points for units and border crossing, and I think we both want something plausible, eg no deep invasions without air cover. My opponent is an old timer, who knows the game, the history, and playing the allies. It will not be easy.

In my previous game against Spence, I had conquered all of China by summer 1942. I want to try the same but with less supply, stacking and no help from the Kwantung army. The capture of China is very desirable, as it frees units, provides industrial resources and protects the continental flank of the home islands until 1945. I believe it is feasible in scenario 1 without further commitment than the troops already in China in 1942. To achieve this, I need a quick capture of Burma and a focused approach to the Chinese theater (ie conquering one region after another, instead of trying to progress everywhere at once).

Another thing I want to change is the general planning of my conquests. In my previous game, I rushed forward, went for a small perimeter, and the expansion phase was over by September 1942. After that, I fell back in defense, bracing for the enemy advance, and conceding the initiative way too early. In this game, I want to go for a slower buildup, but to retain the initiative well into 1943. To achieve this, I would like to focus, at the beginning of the war, on enemy forces, try to reduce them (sink a few carriers, hopefully, and go for the shipping), and then strive for a larger perimeter, in order to delay enemy reconquest.

Finally, in my last game, like many other players, I tended to focus on the air force, and I limited naval construction. The general idea was that the limiting factor was oil and fuel, which the navy used (HI and fuel). The air force, on the other hand, didn’t use much fuel. Looking at recent games, I am under the impression that Japan seldom runs out of fuel, but that in many late games, supply is the real issue. So, I am tempted, this time, to focus more on the navy and invest less on planes and sorties. I am not sure how this should be done, but I want to explore this direction.

A last word about PDU off and aircraft research. Very often, only fighters get researched. I intend to focus on mid-game shipkillers as well (Judy and Jill). As for fighters, Jacks and Georges have too few squadrons upgrading to be worth the investment. I will definitely focus on the Frank, and the easy paths (Zero, Oscar, Tony). I am split about the Sam, which means investing on both models (only carrier squadrons upgrade to A7M2, all others go to A7M3-J). As for the later models, the ki-94 II has a lot of upgrades, I don’t know about the others.




< Message edited by fcharton -- 12/2/2017 11:12:50 PM >

(in reply to Rio Bravo)
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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/3/2017 2:14:31 AM   
PaxMondo


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Francois,

IJN Fighter upgrades: Actually, it is worse than you state. A great many LBA groups are not defined beyond A6M. But the ones that I looked at, more groups listed A7M2 undefined than A7M3J ... but I haven't played a PDU OFF in so long I cannot even find my old analyses on it any more. If you have tallied all the groups, you may be right, but in aggregate, (LBA + CV), far more fighter groups will upgrade to A7M2 than A7M3J. I would not split the RnD, I would focus on the A7M2 only.

The A7M3J is a weird duck .. its more a NF bomber killer without the NF designation. Compared to the A7M2, you gain 10 mph, but you give up lot for that little speed increase:
SR 3
4x30mm @ 15% acc.
MAN = 18
Arrival 1/46

So against B-29's it looks pretty good. Against P47's ... A7M2 is going to be far more effective.

Read Michael's (nygiants59) AAR to see what happens with 10x30 RnD research ... particularly for realistic RnD, my minimum RnD is 10x30. Jill/Judy, I just start building 1 or 2 factories to whatever build rate I want (1x90, 2x60, ...) and they arrive when scheduled.
3x30 RnD just does so little and uses RnD factories that can be far more effective elsewhere.

Again, lacking my old notes ... I can't remember how many RnD factories IJ starts with, roughly half though, so I would put
10x30 Oscar
10x30 A6M
10x30 Frank
10x30 A7M2
Then the last stragglers on 1 each on Jill, Judy. Once Oscar/A6M are done, then you can move to other models that you might want.

You have to pursue all the Oscar/A6M line because of PDU OFF, only way to open up upgrade paths .... the sooner that happens the better ...


Just my opinion, use as you see fit ...


< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 12/3/2017 3:40:38 PM >


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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/4/2017 3:39:36 AM   
PaxMondo


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Haven't found my notes (just upgraded computers and my files are in disarray as I combine several previous backups to current)

But, I did look at Scen 1 PDU OFF again ... yuck.

Anyway, 77 RnD, 19 production factories to start. Yes, most of the IJN LBA converts, at best, to A7M3J, which as I stated before is a NF configured fighter. Since you don't get enough NF airgroups, these are what you will use to makeup your needs. After the big withdrawal (13?) of IJN LBA fighter groups (440710), you have to think hard about investments.

You have to chase the A6M line, no choice. The A7M2 actually has more groups that are bigger to upgrade and it is a better fighter overall than the A7M3 ... I suspect I would convert the A6M RnD factories to A7M3J once the A6M has reached the end.

Thankfully, the IJA side of the house is MUCH better. Not only do most groups eventually convert to Frank, BUT, they also upgrade to Ki-94II (Frank II) along with most of the other groups that did NOT convert to Frank. I didn't look at all the4 IJA groups, but the big ones that did look at (49+ size and there are quite a few) all went to the Frank II. So, Frank followed by Frank II are clear RnD efforts. Again, Oscar has to be done, so I would also think to convert the Oscar RnD factories to Frank II when the Oscar is done. The Frank RnD factories would mostly convert to production with a some (?) RnD on the Frank r model.

Biggest issue is going to be managing the engines as the Frank II uses the Ha-44, Frank uses Ha-45. Most all of the late model IJN fighters use the Ha-43.


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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/4/2017 3:54:35 AM   
PaxMondo


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Bombers are much simpler, for the IJA you will build Sally and Lilly the entire war. Don't forget to build out the Sally 1a. I'm not a big fan of Peggy; losing 25% of my bombload for an extra few hexes range ... and IJ bombloads are already so small compared to the allies ... the Peggy T is always interesting, but the issue in using it is pilots: you cannot train any in advance, so you have to start when you finally get it and those first few groups putting them to training groups. And we're talking about doing this in mid 44 .... its a hard sell for me, but something you have to decide and then plan on.

IJN is easy: Nell/Betty the entire war and then some Frances. And at least with Frances you don't lose any bombload, you just keep the same lousy one you started with.

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/4/2017 4:59:40 AM   
Mike Solli


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PDU off, eh? I tried that in the old WitP a long, long time ago. It sounded interesting at the time but in reality, it was a pain in the butt. . This should be fun to watch.

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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/4/2017 6:18:42 AM   
Aurorus

 

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One thing that you want to keep in mind about R&D for fighters is the engine bonus. If you have, let us say, 8X30 on A6M R&D, and you are building, per month, between 60-90 A6M2s, 60-90 Ki-43 Ics, 20 B5N2s, 10 A6M2-Rufes, 20 A6M3s (and/or M5s by June or July), 30 Ki-45 Ia (Nicks), and 30 Lilly IIas, that is 540 Nakajima 35 engines per month with just builds and A6M2 R&D. If you shut off some production each day, such as Rufes when not needed, or Lillies, you can gain a couple of engines each day. You probably do not want to expand Nakajima 35 production much beyond 550 or so, because the engine becomes obsolete and few later war models use it.

The point that I am making is that putting a large number of factories on Oscar R&D is not efficient. I think that it is better to put fewer factories on Oscar, say 4 x 30, and ensure that there are sufficient Nakajima 35s engines to provide a bonus to the Oscar factories. Again, creating a large number of Oscar factories is inefficient, because you will not need to produce 300 Oscar IIIas or IVs late in the war. Most of your front-line squadrons will have converted out of the Oscar-line late war, except for a couple of dedicated bomber escort groups. Furthermore, it would be enormously inefficient to create enough Nak 35 engine factories to ensure that more than 4 or 5 Oscar factories have an engine for the bonus.

By only placing 4 x 30 on Oscar R&D, this should free up a few factories for A7M2 from the beginning. 8x30 A6M R&D with an engine bonus will give you the A6M8 in mid 1943, without skipping any steps. You can then convert some A6M8 factories over to A7M2 and probably receive the A7M2 in mid-late 44. I am putting 4 or 5 x30 on A7M2 in my PDU:off games now from turn 1. These are factories that I once dedicated to Oscar and late-war army fighter R&D. I plan on converting 4 or 5 A6M factories to the A7M2 in mid 1943, once the A6M8 becomes available.

These are my latest thoughts on the matter, having been convinced by Lowpe and Pax that A7M2 research from turn 1 is essential.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 12/4/2017 6:31:54 AM >

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Post #: 19
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/4/2017 6:50:07 AM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

In my previous game against Spence, I had conquered all of China by summer 1942. I want to try the same but with less supply, stacking and no help from the Kwantung army. The capture of China is very desirable, as it frees units, provides industrial resources and protects the continental flank of the home islands until 1945. I believe it is feasible in scenario 1 without further commitment than the troops already in China in 1942. To achieve this, I need a quick capture of Burma and a focused approach to the Chinese theater (ie conquering one region after another, instead of trying to progress everywhere at once).

Another thing I want to change is the general planning of my conquests. In my previous game, I rushed forward, went for a small perimeter, and the expansion phase was over by September 1942. After that, I fell back in defense, bracing for the enemy advance, and conceding the initiative way too early. In this game, I want to go for a slower buildup, but to retain the initiative well into 1943. To achieve this, I would like to focus, at the beginning of the war, on enemy forces, try to reduce them (sink a few carriers, hopefully, and go for the shipping), and then strive for a larger perimeter, in order to delay enemy reconquest.



I very much like this strategic outlook. If the Japanese player is successful in destroying allied assets in the early going while preserving his own force, the Japanese player can stay on the offensive longer. This is, in my opinion, more important than focusing exclusively on a rapid advance. Of course, against a Sir Robin strategy, the Japanese player must advance rapidly in order to engage before the allied positions are reinforced in strength.

I agree that you can accomplish much in China without a futher commitment of troops and limiting the use of supply. If you can defeat the whole of China without committing further assets and limiting supply use, this is optimal for Japan and will make a decisive allied victory very difficult to achieve.

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 20
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/4/2017 12:38:37 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli



PDU off, eh? I tried that in the old WitP a long, long time ago. It sounded interesting at the time but in reality, it was a pain in the butt. . This should be fun to watch.

its a new 'trend' now.



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RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/4/2017 1:20:36 PM   
Lowpe


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PDU off:

Having played it, and really sweating bullets over the builds, I made some classic mistakes.

I went with the Grace, and was going to get her early, the problem, was the Jills most of the squadrons upgrade from I skipped. Thankfully, I accelerated some Carriers and the Jills needed for upgrade came that way.

I went ahead and built the second Val, I then put one squadron on Myojo (kamikaze -- I think there are two squadrons that upgrade to her). PDU off and late war Kamikazes really sucks... look at the upgrade paths before you allocate a single r&d to the Toka or other kamikazes.

If a squadron withdraws at some point, then for you to upgrade to the next plane in the upgrade path, you need a full number of the new plane (no manual upgrades with 1 or 2 planes). Early Tonies got me here leaving me with the A when I had D's in number but not enough Cs. Confusing, yes.

The problem with going Jill/Judy early is payback. Yes they are improvements, but if the Allies don't play, well then they don't accomplish much in the time frame from when you get them early to when they normally arrive. Getting Grace and Sam are pretty much a better bet. I can't say enough good things about them.

You do get 2-4 Jack sentai...and they are screamers, Allocate at least one factory to them. They come early and are really good. The 2nd Jack is the one you want.

You can upgrade a lot of squadrons to the dive bomber lilly...

I would look at Night Fighters as it is a mess. Night Fighters and Kamikazes are where PDU Off really stinks.

I am glad I played PDU off, but never again. If I were the Allies, and playing scenario 1 PDU off, I would pursue a serious night bombing strategic campaign.






(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 22
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/4/2017 11:11:45 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

PDU off:

The problem with going Jill/Judy early is payback. Yes they are improvements, but if the Allies don't play, well then they don't accomplish much in the time frame from when you get them early to when they normally arrive. Getting Grace and Sam are pretty much a better bet. I can't say enough good things about them.

I am glad I played PDU off, but never again.


+1

Done PDU OFF years ago, never again. being forced to fly Claude/Nate in '45 ... sorry. Even A6M2 in '45 is just not my cup of tea.



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Post #: 23
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/6/2017 12:40:15 PM   
fcharton

 

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December 2nd 1941 (2S 136), later, at the Bavarian Tavern of the Imperial palace

(a typical Bavarian tavern, noisy atmosphere, smoke in the air, chrysanthemum bouquets on the tables, waitresses in schoolgirl uniforms at the bar, an accordion playing “from the halls of Montezuma”)
- … and so, if everything goes as planned, we should be hanging out our washing on Adak island.
- Ten thousand years, your holiness
- Stop calling me that, Eugène! And bring me another pint of that Pratzen Pils
- Aye aye, chief.
Tonight, the Evil Empire is celebrating 2S, the 136th anniversary of the battle of Austerlitz.
According to the French tradition, students of Saint Cyr name their school months from the letters in the name of the battle. School year begins in October, which is A, November is U, and 2S is the second of December. On that very day, a reconstitution of the battle is held in Britanny, in an area which is supposed to look like the Pratzen plateau, and there is quite a bit of merrymaking afterwards.
This Empire, a very Francophile one, choose to follow this tradition a few years ago, but Mount Fuji proved a bad approximation for the battlefield, and the tradition focused instead on the merrymaking, held in the brand new Bavarian Tavern opened in homage to our new nervous friend from Europe, in the basement of the Imperial palace. As for the music, the court historian did choose some French tune, but was apparently unaware it also serves as the USMC anthem.
And this is why, dear reader, this evil empire is celebrating a French victory in a German pub, over American music and Japanese beer, on the eve of a war that, given the lack of preparation, will most certainly end in infamy. Kanpei!



The first turn has been sent. Not everything was done, ship conversions, pilot training, aircraft R&D, and convoys, remain to be seen after, but the orders have been sent and the game is on.

I am going for a conservative and prudent opening. The twelve infantry divisions I can use at game start are split between three theaters.

Two divisions are going to Burma, I am sending two divisions to Burma, the imperial guards and the 55th, minus the 144th infantry regiment, but supplemented by one of the brigades that begin the game in Indochina. This should be enough to take and hold Burma even if my opponent reinforces it a bit. Against tougher opposition, I might need another division, one from Luzon, I think.

Six divisions (2, 4, 5, 18, 38, 56, minus the 146th infantry regiment, replaced by the other Indochinese brigade) are going to Malaysia. The 33rd ID is earmarked for Sumatra. I am landing in Kota Baru and Pattani, and moving south trying to cut off some troops from Alor Star and Georgetown. They will then walk down the peninsula, behind an armored vanguard.

The last three divisions (16, 21 and 48th) and the 65th brigade will be sent to Luzon. The goal is to bottle everybody in Bataan (or Manila, the Allies get to choose) as fast as possible, and free two divisions for action either in Mindanao, or Northern Australia. My objective is to move fast on early objectives, so that many of these troops can be redeployed by late January, to Java, Mindanao, Northern Australia, and the South Pacific, and finish off the basic perimeter. If all goes well, a third phase would then be possible in late March, before the amphibious bonus ends. Overall, the Japanese initial expansion would be done in three steps :
- The basic amenities : Singapore, Manila, Rangoon, Hong Kong, by mid-January
- The comfort zone : Java, Mindanao, Northern Australia, New Guinea, the new Hebrides, maybe, by March
- A third round, to be decided, in Australia, South Pacific, India, Alaska, in March.

This leaves five regiments (144, 146, 41, 124 and the 90th, which I just bought in Korea) for the South Pacific and the Moluccas. I am not quite certain yet who goes where, but my idea is to use them to capture a few important bases (Ambon, Port Moresby), and then to extend my perimeter forward, under air cover from KB, to prevent allied buildup before my third phase expansion. I plan to use these units as vanguards, and perhaps to divert enemy attention. Right now, I have been using first turn invasion TF to rush them around the map to new starting area. I like this way of using the warp TF to adjust the initial OOB.

The rest of the invasions (Borneo, Celebes, Gilberts, from the halls of M to the shores of T) will be left to the marines. A few side shows have already been planned, a base force has been sent to Adak Island, the Wake invasion was reinforced by the Tarawa SNLF. I have had difficulties taking Wake in my previous game, and do not want to lose time there.

PDU Off

I am a PDU Off player, never tried PDU on, but I suspect it is a bit like learning to drive. Once you have learned and own a car, it is hard to imagine one can live without. But this is difficult to understand for those who don’t drive, and yet manage.

My thoughts so far mirror several comments on this thread. What I have noticed in my previous game is that in PDU off, lots of small details matter, and will usually prevent big plans from succeeding: you will miss the engine bonus, some squadron won’t upgrade because you lack an intermediary model, you need to save supplies and convert research factories to produce planes, instead of having them work on the next model. In other words, big lofty plans will not succeed, and you need to keep it simple (and mind the engine bonus, which makes all the difference).

In terms of fighters, I am definitely going for the Frank and Ki-94 II, the Sam A7M2, and accelerating the A6M2 and Oscar lines as much as I can. The rest will be penny-packeted in a mixture of quick and easy wins, and larger investment on lines (Tojo, Tony). More about that in the next installment.

Imperial travels

On the personal level, I have the time to afford a new game as Japan because the company I founded 15 years ago was sold in November, after many months of stressful negotiations. And since my new owners are keeping me with them, and are based in New York City, I get to spend a week there next week.

I should be in town from the 10th to the 15th, staying and working in midtown, and will probably have my evening and some free time. Anyone’s up for a Pratzen beer, to celebrate Austerlitz, Tripoli, Camerone, or the landings in Kota Baru and Appari ? (let me know by PM)

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 24
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/7/2017 2:02:30 AM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
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In my two recent games, I went directly into the DEI and mostly bypassed Luzon. In one game, I landed nothing at Luzon. In the other game, I landed 2 divisions to take southern Luzon and bottle the allies up at Manila.

I sent KB to Singapore in both games, which precluded the withdrawal of many resources, especially fuel and oil from the DEI. By checking tracker stats against previous games, where I had moved into Palembang in late December and Java in February, I found that moving on the DEI in the first week and threatening Java and Sumatra with CV air provided me an extra 500K fuel over my previous games, where the allied players had been able to extract that fuel from the DEI.

The extent to which you are able to prevent the allies from withdrawing fuel from the DEI, how long Magwe is held, and the loss of oil to sabotage as bases fall and to strategic bombing will determine how much of an issue fuel will be in your game. If the allied player does not make a concerted effort to attack you oil and fuel transports with submarines, does not move on the DEI early for strategic bombing, and if you do not lose much oil to sabotage, fuel will not be a great concern. You will be able to use your fleet liberally.

If, on the other hand, the allied player does make every effort to target your economy, you will be constrained by fuel to some extent, depending upon how effective the allied campaign against your economy is and how much much fuel he is able to extract from the DEI.

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 25
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/7/2017 2:33:08 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 8974
Joined: 6/6/2008
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Francois,

I would greatly enjoy seeing you next week, but I'm just finishing up with auditors and am so far behind on everything else there is no hope for me to get away.

Wish you the very best in mid-town. Lots to do this time of year, so you should be able to entertain yourself nicely.


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 26
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/7/2017 6:13:53 AM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
Francois-

Wrong coast.

Do you think your future business travels might bring you to California.

It would be fun sitting on the back deck with you and Captain Haggard solving all the world's problems over whatever.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 27
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/9/2017 7:26:18 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 1112
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: France
Status: offline
December 7th, 1941

Tokyo, the Imperial Pantry
- … my blue suits, my dark blue suit, my black uniform with the while skulls and the visored cap,
- Chief, you’d better leave this one here. If you wear it in America, questions might be asked. And, er. You’re sure it is such a good idea to leave for a business trip to New York on the opening day of the war?
- Ah come on, Lord High E, we shall be there interpares, I mean indignity, …
- …incognito, chief, incognito,
- … anyway, we are flying Norwegian business, under Swedish passports, our consul in Oslo said we’d pass for travelling Frenchmen, and no one will ever guess we are Japanese,
- I hope so, chief, sure hope so.
- And I really want to visit that aircraft carrier they got in the museum in New York, the Intrepid, CV-11 my guide says, wonder what the 10 previous are, and when they show up in the OOB



The first day of the war was a bit disappointing. I kept most of the initial orders unchanged. KB went for Pearl, all Singora forces were redirected to Pattani, the Wake and Tarawa invasions were merged, and mini KB was sent to the Philippines on naval attack.


Pearl Harbor

The full KB was committed, and sent a coordinated strike at 10 000 feet. Torpedo bombers were all on port attack, dive bombers split evenly between port and airfield. Zeroes were all set to escort. This limits the losses but also the number of enemy aircraft destroyed. We lost 12 Kates and 4 Vals.

Enemy losses were about 25 planes. In terms of ship, the Pennsylvania was lost to a magazine explosion. All other battleships record heavy damage and fires. The Nevada ate six fishes, Maryland and West Virginia four, Tennesse and Oklahoma three (the Tennessee has heavy fires), and Arizone and California two each. All of them are in the yards for a while, but I believe all will survive.

Eight cruisers were damaged. CA New Orleans and CL Phoenix both took two torpedoes, and should be in sore shape. Three destroyers, Preble, McDonough and Monaghan were sunk. While not too bad, I have seen better Pearl attacks.

I am not staying for another day. I have done that in my previous games, and did little damage for lots of losses of good pilots, and I need KB in Wake and the South Pacific soon.

Southern Resource Area

Landings on Batan Island, in Kota Baru and Patani were uneventful. Near Mersing, Force Z was attacked, but Betties only scored two torpedo hits on Repulse. It shows up as sunk, but it obviously is not the case (per victory point increase). I might catch her later at Singapore if she is damaged enough. My bombers from Indochina were just as disappointing, not even bothering to attack Rangoon. I put the blame on weather, enemy B17 did not fly either.

There was one bright piece of news, though. CVL Zuiho, patrolling off Mindanao caught the Boise, and sank her.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Naga at 81,82
CL Boise, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Naga at 81,82
CL Boise, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk


On my little list, CA Houston is next…

Overall, this first day ends with five confirmed sinking (Pennsylvania, Boise and three destroyers), and 42 allied planes lost for 35 ours. It is not the best first day I had, but we got the Boise!

R&D musings

While waiting for the turn, I was wondering about R&D and the number of size 30 factories one might want. We all know that there are two phases in R&D: first the factories repair, then they advance the date. Now the repair time is independent of the number of factories one puts to work, and is on average equal to 0.37N, where N is the number of days to delivery of the model, when R&D begins. The acceleration phase depends on the number of factories, if you have U of them, you advance by a month every 50/U days if you have the engine bonus, and 100/U if you do not.

From this, a raw formula can be worked (assuming 30 day months). If the model is N days away, and you put U factories to the job, you will, on average accelerate the model by 0.37NU / (50+30U) if the engine bonus is available, and 0.37NU / (100+30U) if it is not.

Tabulating this in Excel, one notes that increasing the number of factories produce diminishing returns. Assuming the engine bonus, a mid-war plane like the George (due 43/7), will be accelerated by two months if one factory is put at work, by 5 if you use 5 factories, but only by 6 if you put 10 or more. A later plane like the Frank (due 44/1) will accelerate by 3 months with one factory, by 7 with 6 factories, and by 8 months over 12 factories. The A7M2 Sam, due 45/6, will get 5 months with one factory, 12 months with 6, and 14 over 15 factories.

In other words, the farther the plane, the more improvement one gets for putting more factories to the task. This is because the “time to accelerate” (ie the time after all factories are repaired) is longer.

All this seems to suggest the following rules:
1- The number of size 30 factories put to work depends on the delivery date, the earlier the model, the lower the number
2- The correct number (after which one gets very little returns) seems to range between 5 and 10, 5 for mid 43 models, 10 for early 46 ones.
3- A precise value is not especially useful, as randomness in factory repair has a significant impact on the end date.
4- Every factory added costs 30 000 supply points to repair, but as most of them will be turned into production factories at some point in the game (at 30, the 100 factories Japan has can produce 3000 aicraft per month), the R&D supply cost is not necessarily exaggerated.
5- As a result, the general rule would be to research the number of factories one want to put to production in the end.

R&D Plans

Equipped with the above, I built my R&D plans for the war. I am growing or accelerating all the research factories. I might live to regret it, but some of these decisions are taken on the basis that I will need to repair them anyway, to produce the models I am accelerating. Here is the outline (all factories are size 30).

The Zero line gets 8 factories, 5 on the Rufe, to short cut to the A6M5 – A6M8 line, and three on the A6M3, which I intend to convert to production lines for A6M3 and A6M3a (and upgrade), while the five Rufe factories continue R&D.

The Oscar line gets 5 factories, I will probably turn some to production on the way, probably by the IIb.

The Tojo line gets 4 factories, same reasoning as above.

The Nick line gets 3 factories. This is a bit high, but my memories are the Nicks are my best 4E killers in early 43 (when enemy 4E become common). Jack and George get 2 factories each, they are good models, but PDU off offers few upgrades.

The Tony line gets 6 factories, three for the 1a, three for the 1c. In my previous games, the earlier models were not very good, but this is one line I can accelerate a lot, and the later models seem good.

As for later navy fighters, I will have 8 factories on the A7M2 Sam, ad 6 on the A7M3 (which I am told is a good 4E killer).

Finally, the Frank is my heaviest investment, with 7 factories on the Frank-a, 3 on the b, and 10 on the Ki94-II.

Apart from fighters, I am researching two series of night fighters. The Irving, which comes early, and the Randy 1c, chosen for its low service rating. Each has three factories.

Finally, I put three factories each on the Jill, Judy and Grace. Investing on carrier planes is a good scheme : it helps keep the carriers afloat, and even if they are sunk, you still can call the squadrons back, and use the planes from land bases.

I do realize this means a heavy investment in term of production and supplies, and I am not sure it is compatible with scenario one settings. Time will tell.

Industry and shipbuilding

In my game against Spence, I followed a very limited approach to ship building. I stopped all late ships (late meaning late 44), all merchant building, and did not accelerate anything. In compensation, I had a very heavy plane production (and losses). When the game ended, in June 1943, my supply levels were 1.5 million tons higher than at the beginning of the war, and I had almost three million HI in the bank.

In this game, I start with less resources, but pretty much the same potential production. I will cut all merchant production, save transports, and escort carriers. I will also cut navy programs for late 45 and 46, I am not sure where to put the limit, or if some classes (E? DD?) should be spared. I am undecided about accelerating some programs? Should I accelerate carriers? cruisers? destroyers? Any advice on this would be appreciated.

For the rest, I intend to try to cut supply spending by monitoring my air sorties. There is a strong tendency, if you build many planes, to use them every turn, sometimes on useless targets. This costs supplies, and operational losses (which then cost more as they take replacements). Being conservative with my air force, especially level bombers, is one thing I want to try in this game.



(in reply to Rio Bravo)
Post #: 28
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/10/2017 9:19:54 AM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

In this game, I start with less resources, but pretty much the same potential production. I will cut all merchant production, save transports, and escort carriers. I will also cut navy programs for late 45 and 46, I am not sure where to put the limit, or if some classes (E? DD?) should be spared. I am undecided about accelerating some programs? Should I accelerate carriers? cruisers? destroyers? Any advice on this would be appreciated.





My typical approach to ship-building is to convert some of the smaller merchant shipyards to naval: about 100. I like to accelerate the 1944 CVs until their arrival date is early to mid 1943. I halt work on Musashi and Yamato until the 1944 CVs have been acclerated sufficienty (about 9 months to a year of accelerated production). Then in late 1942, I return the CVs to "normal" and start work on the Musashi at "normal" until its arrival date coincides with the Yamato: about 6 months from the current date. This take me into early 1943. The acclerated CVs will begin appearing in March or April 1943, which will free up some shipyards. At that point, I turn on production for Yamato as well, so that both Yamato and Musashi appear near the end of 1943. They use too much fuel to use throughout the war, but having them as the allied juggernaut begins in 1944 can be helpful, since you will often want to seek out surface combats rather than naval air combats and those 2 BBs are the equal of any 4 allied BBs in surface combat.

I build all DDs and Es and the CLs as well. The CLs are somewhat optional in my opinion, but I prefer to have them to counter Fletchers. I accelerate a few later war CVEs into 1943, and I shut off most merchants. I build all the Tks and AOs. Shutting off all merchant production usually result in a surplus of merchant points (even with accelerating a few CVEs and converting 100 merchant shipyards to naval). I let this surplus build until mid 1942, then shut off all merchant shipyards in excess of what I need to conserve Heavy Industry. This gives me a cushion of merchant points to build cargo ships later if needed. If not, I can shut off all merchant shipyards in 1944, and the surplus is enough to complete the Tks in 1944.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 12/10/2017 9:20:38 AM >

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 29
RE: I've got a little list, fcharton (J) vs zuluhour (A) - 12/10/2017 5:35:06 PM   
Rio Bravo


Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline
Francois-

Though you did not destroy many Allied aircraft, you did well heavily damaging Allied ships. All at an extremely minimal cost to you. Accordingly, I think your attack on Pearl was most excellent.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 30
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