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Resolving Movement - 11/28/2017 4:38:21 AM   
JPJ

 

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This question and reply came up in the thread below Klinks (very good!) supply tutorial. I thought I branch this off to here with another question about it:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

quote:

2) I'm confused about how movement done by units that are _not_ part of any battle affects elapsed time when you choose to execute all planned battles. For example if I have a unit that has moved 1/10 rounds and is doing an attack that maybe is expected to consume 1 round. And I have a 2nd unit that has moved 10/10 rounds (spent all movement points) but hasn't done any attack and is not part of any attack. Then I execute attack. What happens? Will time elapsed for the first unit be 2/10 after the attack is resolved or will it be 10/10 since the 2nd unit has already spent all movement even though it never participated in any combat and is not near any combat? (imagine the 2nd unit is moving from rear areas up toward the line of battle but has not reached it yet despite using all 10/10 alloted rounds moving along roads.


Units that are not part of any combat will not affect the round adjustment. So, move them as far as you like. Note, however, that if you move them adjacent to a combat they can affect that combat's duration if the defenders are denied a retreat path. (They will be considered to be blocking the retreat path). So, be careful in that regard.


So I understand how that works and the timestamps but sometimes wonder – why does TOAW choose not to resolve all movements (also for units that are not part of any combat) at the same time as battles and aligned with the same rounds system?

In the above example, I can imagine TOAW would not immediately move that unit 10/10 MP but plan or set it to be moved (just like battles are first planned, then resolved). And then resolve its movement at the same time as battles.
If the first battle cycle ends at round 2/10, that unit on the map also would be moved only 2/10 for now (with 8/10 still pending because we have only passed two rounds after all). When the next battle cycle advances to round X or Y, that unit also would be moved to X or Y equivalent of its total movement. Etc, until it has completely executed its planned movement, or until end of turn if it was set to expend all its MP moving. So, all units move in sync with the combats. At least the math doesn't appear complicated.

Wouldn't this always show moving units on the map positioned in sync with the combat rounds?
Or is movement resolution in sync with combat rounds technically or logically not compatible with TOAW?
Post #: 1
RE: Resolving Movement - 11/28/2017 12:51:25 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JPJ

If the first battle cycle ends at round 2/10, that unit on the map also would be moved only 2/10 for now (with 8/10 still pending because we have only passed two rounds after all). When the next battle cycle advances to round X or Y, that unit also would be moved to X or Y equivalent of its total movement. Etc, until it has completely executed its planned movement, or until end of turn if it was set to expend all its MP moving. So, all units move in sync with the combats. At least the math doesn't appear complicated.

Wouldn't this always show moving units on the map positioned in sync with the combat rounds?
Or is movement resolution in sync with combat rounds technically or logically not compatible with TOAW?



A unit commander is going to move his unit from A to B. In C there is a battle raging that's well within movement range of his unit. After a couple of hours that battle in C starts going badly for the commander's side. Would he continue on to B because he had that planned? Or would he attempt to move to C to affect the battle?

Moving your units a full movement allowance can be a bad thing or a good thing. If you are far from any potential battles you might as well move the full allowance, no reason not to unless you want a deep reserve. If you are near battles why would you move your entire allowance when you might need the unit to take part in a nearby battle? So you have to try and determine how many of your movement points will be left after any battles and where and how far you should move units to leave them their maximum number of movement points to exploit any successes. Or shore up any failures. Nothing you do will ever go according to plan of course because on a battlefield nothing ever goes as expected. So expecting the unexpected and attempting to plan for it is part of the game.

Many of the most popular current war games are counter pushers. You don't have to think really hard, just kind of hard. TOAW can force you to think really hard. It seems fairly simple on the surface but the nuances begin to become apparent as you get deeper into the game. And with the great work Ralph and Bob have done to the plethora of reports, user interface, programmed opponent and mechanics it has become even more of a thinking man's game.

I feel doing it the way you explained would take some of the brain work out of TOAW and detract from it. That's just my opinion. I'm sure there are others who would think differently.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

(in reply to JPJ)
Post #: 2
RE: Resolving Movement - 11/28/2017 1:55:52 PM   
larryfulkerson


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From: Tucson, AZ
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I like that explaination a lot Lobster dude. Shows what I know....I'm still
trying to develop a good "battlefield awareness" thing going. I lose track
of the little details, things I need to do, things that shouldn't fall through
the cracks. Maybe I should start writing things down.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 3
RE: Resolving Movement - 11/28/2017 3:05:31 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12565
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JPJ

So I understand how that works and the timestamps but sometimes wonder – why does TOAW choose not to resolve all movements (also for units that are not part of any combat) at the same time as battles and aligned with the same rounds system?

In the above example, I can imagine TOAW would not immediately move that unit 10/10 MP but plan or set it to be moved (just like battles are first planned, then resolved). And then resolve its movement at the same time as battles.
If the first battle cycle ends at round 2/10, that unit on the map also would be moved only 2/10 for now (with 8/10 still pending because we have only passed two rounds after all). When the next battle cycle advances to round X or Y, that unit also would be moved to X or Y equivalent of its total movement. Etc, until it has completely executed its planned movement, or until end of turn if it was set to expend all its MP moving. So, all units move in sync with the combats. At least the math doesn't appear complicated.

Wouldn't this always show moving units on the map positioned in sync with the combat rounds?
Or is movement resolution in sync with combat rounds technically or logically not compatible with TOAW?


This same question came up in the BTS thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4274372&mpage=3

See posts #70, 72, 74, 75, 76, & 77.

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to JPJ)
Post #: 4
RE: Resolving Movement - 11/29/2017 7:49:00 AM   
JPJ

 

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Joined: 7/15/2017
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Lobster, larryfulkerson, thank you. No doubt, this game is in best hands with Ralph and Bob. And I agree; the depth of TOAW is what has kept also me happy with it for almost two decades now. I wouldn't change that. I merely try to understand a design choice and an apparent inconsistency, not object to it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

There remains the risk of early turn ending after each combat phase. That's only intended to impact combat plans. It shouldn't impact the movement of units that aren't in combat (reinforcements moving in the rear areas or other units just maneuvering). And you still have the risk of combats that, while starting on time, last multiple rounds. Do they go into limbo?


Thank you for the technical explanation. (In the BTS thread, #72). I hadn't read far into that thread because BTS, while great, improve something that was not really an issue for me, so I hadn't seen this there. Thanks for the pointer.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 5
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