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RE: FITE 2 - 2/12/2021 3:29:14 PM   
Teufeldk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: torbenalbertsen

Hi all

I posted this on another thread only to realize it might be better placed here:

Hi all

First a little background. Besides a few smaller, I have now played (without finishing) two big campaigns, first dir21 and next FITA2, both with a friend in PBEM mode. We started playing dir21 not knowing it to be designed for AI play. I played as russians and my friend as the axis, and the game ended with the russians completely overwhelming the germans in the winter offensive 41-42, at which point we quit and started FITA2. After learning that it was a game designed for AI play, we presumed then that since the russian was an AI adversary, it had to have been designed to be overpowered, hence accounting for the overwhelming victory.

We then turned the roles around, me as germans and my friend as the russians and playing FITA2. However, the game ended in the same fashion, the russians completely overwhelmed the axis by shear numbers in the first couple of rounds of their winter offensive 41. Now, I am quite content with admitting a few strategic blunders, but I also had some good victories, so I dare say the end result dosnt quite explain itself just because of the blunders. I had a look at the russian front (my opponent) in the end and found that the places of assault was basically 3 lines deep with almost 2 units in each line, where as my german force was at best two lines deep with 1 hole unit in front and a half unit behind, and a few reinforcments here and there, and this was were it was the strongest. In other places it was just half a unit. If the russians had only broken through were I was the weakest (in the south), it would have been understandable, as that was where his initial push came and were I made my strategic error, but they made breakthroughs on all my front simultaneously and in places where I considered myself strongest.

So, before playing the campaign again (turning the roles around again) we would like to ask some questions of more experienced players to see if maybe we are missing some information or doing something wrong, since in our experience it appears that the russians are way to overpowered.

a few questions:

1. does anyone have similar experiences?
2. Does the versions of FITA2 matter in terms of balancing? And, if they do, which version favours the germans.
3. We are concerned that we might have put the equipment files in the wrong place,(we are now aware of where to put it) but, Does the equipment files favour the Axis in any way? (or is that irrelevant to the balancing)
4. Might the rules of "no interception" be a little unbalancing in the campaign?

well, any hint, experiences or solutions are welcome.

thanks

torben

So, after reading through this FITE2 I see that some other players have had similar problems and that 1.9 should have fixed some of these issues (we played 1.4), we are currently discussing what house rules to play with to debuff the soviets. but one question remains:

does the equipment file also do the job of balancing the game?



Well, balancing has been difficult in the game.

But 1.9 is a huge improvement over 1.4

Søren and I are currently playing a game, and in version 2.0 there will be more balancing in favour of the germans.

But the most important thing for the germans is speed speed speed :)

About the "no interdicting" house rule: we have made this because interdicting seems broken in the game. It seems very overpåowered. But you are of course free to play with it if you want.

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Post #: 151
RE: FITE 2 - 2/12/2021 4:14:34 PM   
FaneFlugt


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Ah... Im playing as Mannerheim. So we have to wait for Stalin to know the answer to the supply drop question. I think the soviet players ZOC made one of the red star hexes turn soviet. Without a unit being on the line, itself.

I am certain the wording in the document is wrong then. But this "red star line" rule is Better than the fall of Helsinki rule. The Germans probably would and could send reinforcments that early in the war, if the finns where about to get knocked out.


< Message edited by FaneFlugt -- 2/12/2021 4:18:54 PM >


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Post #: 152
RE: FITE 2 - 2/12/2021 4:19:16 PM   
Teufeldk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FaneFlugt

Ah... Im playing as Mannerheim. So we have to wait for Stalin to know the answer to the supply drop question. I think the soviet players ZOC made one of the red star hexes turn soviet. Without a unit being on the line, itself.

I am certain the wording in the document is wrong then. But this "red star line" rule is Better than the fall of Helsinki rule. The Germans would and could send reinforcments that early in the war, if the finns where about to get knocked out.



A "Capture" by ZOC would do the trick too. Maybe that should be clarified in the briefing.


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Post #: 153
RE: FITE 2 - 2/12/2021 5:08:21 PM   
FaneFlugt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Teufeldk


quote:

ORIGINAL: FaneFlugt

Ah... Im playing as Mannerheim. So we have to wait for Stalin to know the answer to the supply drop question. I think the soviet players ZOC made one of the red star hexes turn soviet. Without a unit being on the line, itself.

I am certain the wording in the document is wrong then. But this "red star line" rule is Better than the fall of Helsinki rule. The Germans would and could send reinforcments that early in the war, if the finns where about to get knocked out.



A "Capture" by ZOC would do the trick too. Maybe that should be clarified in the briefing.



Just got a rather angry diplomatic communiqué from Stalin, the Allies did indeed cut his supply by 2. He now vows to redouble his efforts to knock out the finns.. since the Damage has been done. 😒

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Post #: 154
RE: FITE 2 - 2/12/2021 6:45:35 PM   
Teufeldk

 

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Understandable :)

That is not an option for me in my game since the German has taken Leningrad. I did manage to surround and destroy some Finnish units east of Salla though.

Anyway, I am very interested in knowing if you can locate a hex that triggered the event - or if there is a bug.

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Kristian


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Post #: 155
RE: FITE 2 - 2/12/2021 7:31:35 PM   
FaneFlugt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Teufeldk

Understandable :)

That is not an option for me in my game since the German has taken Leningrad. I did manage to surround and destroy some Finnish units east of Salla though.

Anyway, I am very interested in knowing if you can locate a hex that triggered the event - or if there is a bug.


HEX:

225,189






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 156
RE: FITE 2 - 2/12/2021 7:47:28 PM   
Teufeldk

 

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Ok, wonderful

Then there does not seem to be a bug in the game.

Although the scenario briefing could be clearer worded :)

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Post #: 157
RE: FITE 2 - 2/12/2021 8:59:41 PM   
FaneFlugt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Teufeldk

Ok, wonderful

Then there does not seem to be a bug in the game.

Although the scenario briefing could be clearer worded :)


No, not a bug, only in the text.

quote:

Minor surrender
The Germans have several minor allies in the game. Below is a list of when they will surrender to the Russians:

Finland: Before the allied landing in Sicily in the summer of 1943 the Fins surrender when Helsinki is taken. If this happens the German units in Norway activates. After the allied landing in Sicily (turn 214) the Finns surrender if Vyborg (unless it is already controlled by the Russians) or Helsinki is taken. In this event the German units in Norway will not activate.

Romania: Will change sides when Kishinev (230,452) OR Galati (220,480) becomes Russian controlled

Hungary: Will surrender when Budapest falls

Slovakia: will surrender when Bratislava falls

Bulgaria: will change sides when Romania does

Persia/Iran: will surrender when Tabriz falls.

Special rules for Finland
Throughout the war Finland kept close ties to the Western Allies, and never signed a formal alliance with Germany. In the game this means that if the Russians tries to conquer Finland before turn 214 by taking a hex with a red star the USA, will reduce Lend Lease to Russian (-2 supply to Russia). This effect is cancelled if the Finns or the Germans take any hex between (268,89) and (274,101) on the Kirov rail line.


The text needs to be updated.

I dont know what changes are in the next version but we have made a few observations in our 1.9 game.

Naval forces seems very powerfull. As a test I moved the rumanian navy (range 4) into the dreaded 7 hex zone around the battleship Molotov and all ships was instantly hit and sunk. I havent played around with the new naval rules alot, not at all to be honest, but the Rumanian navy is 6-8 ships and maybe need a bit more staying power? or?

Finnish units never show the ski icon, (in snow conditions). It might be a graphic glitch but the the russian cav is outmanouvering the finns on ski, in winter, in 1,5 meter snow!!! Perkele! Simo Häyhä dosent approve!






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by FaneFlugt -- 2/12/2021 9:19:10 PM >


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Post #: 158
RE: FITE 2 - 2/13/2021 8:26:25 AM   
Teufeldk

 

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I don't know about the navy. It seems to me that the game does not handle that too well, and it is after all just flavor in the game. It seems easy though to sink the large Russian ships (range 7) with Stukas. The other ships are harder to sink. I lost all my battleships in the baltic to Stukas in my game.

The Finnish units are Ski units. They just have that as their second icon. It means they get the benefit, but don't show the icon. But this is not shown in-game, but only in the scenario editor, so we must be better to point things like that out in the briefing.

I honestly can't remember why we made it like that, but I suspect it was because I disliked the ski icon and preferred the regular infantry icon. I don't think there is any rational explanation :). I will consider making them ski units as their first icon. Or at least explain that they are in fact ski units in the briefing.

But thank you for pointing that out. A lot of things are implicit in the game (or thought to be obvious to me and Søren) but we just have to learn that it only seems that way to us because we made the scenario. For other players, things need to be better explained. That is our fault, and we will try to improve on that. A manual should be a help - not the opposite.

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Post #: 159
RE: FITE 2 - 2/14/2021 9:02:28 PM   
FaneFlugt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Teufeldk

I don't know about the navy. It seems to me that the game does not handle that too well, and it is after all just flavor in the game. It seems easy though to sink the large Russian ships (range 7) with Stukas. The other ships are harder to sink. I lost all my battleships in the baltic to Stukas in my game.

The Finnish units are Ski units. They just have that as their second icon. It means they get the benefit, but don't show the icon. But this is not shown in-game, but only in the scenario editor, so we must be better to point things like that out in the briefing.

I honestly can't remember why we made it like that, but I suspect it was because I disliked the ski icon and preferred the regular infantry icon. I don't think there is any rational explanation :). I will consider making them ski units as their first icon. Or at least explain that they are in fact ski units in the briefing.

But thank you for pointing that out. A lot of things are implicit in the game (or thought to be obvious to me and Søren) but we just have to learn that it only seems that way to us because we made the scenario. For other players, things need to be better explained. That is our fault, and we will try to improve on that. A manual should be a help - not the opposite.


Ok, I see the point about ski icons. I agree it looks "better" with the inf. icon.

Are there any plans on making any of the oil and natural resources hex part of the game? Nickel mines in Petsamo, rumanian oilfields, Baku oilfields? They are marked on the map but dosent appear in the briefing?

I think you did a good job with the scenario. It seems balanced to me. But we are only at turn 70.

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Post #: 160
RE: FITE 2 - 2/16/2021 6:57:06 AM   
gliz2

 

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I do enjoy v.1.9. It's the best scenario (actually a whole campaign) developed for Eastern Front 👌

Two house rules I have implemented that makes a lot of a difference are:
1. the Soviets have only one round of attacks till September
2. Each turn the Soviets MUST attack German units if able (till we end of Winter Offensive).

This achieves two things:
1. Simulates the Soviet 1941 tactics and limitations.
2. Prevent from applying by Russians in '41 later war tactics of deep lines of defense.

I learned the hard way that if Soviet player is allowed to play without the restrictions then ze Germans have little chance of success, not slightest of winning.

Also last run we decided to give Germans more leeway when using Auxillary. Either we are playing a historical based scenario (what might have happened) or replay the historical events (the latter makes zero sense).
For example any ahistorical actions like Soviets amphibious landing in Romania in July'41 are allowed 😁

PS. I also think it is a tad to easy for Russians to outmanoeuvre the Finns.

< Message edited by gliz2 -- 2/16/2021 7:00:18 AM >

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Post #: 161
RE: FITE 2 - 2/16/2021 2:17:18 PM   
Teufeldk

 

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Great to get your feedback.

We have struggled to balance the game to ensure that the Germans have a chance. I personally think we are close (but a few more things will be added in version 2.0)
But it takes effort as the Germans. You need to move very very quickly.

In our current game, the Germans have taken Leningrad (it fell on turn 20) and are standing on the Don River close to Stalingrad as we move into the spring of 42.

The Russians are in good shape, but I am convinced that we will be destroyed in 42 (but that may be my usual defeatism :))

It is possible that I am simply not a good player (at least Søren is an absolute beast as the Germans), but I found it very hard to put up a viable defense. My defensive line at Moscow held firm, but that was only because it was not attacked. The Germans focused on Leningrad and in the South instead. But I strongly believe that he could have taken Moscow if he had focused there.

I made some huge blunders as the Russians, so I could have done much better, but no matter what the Germans would have advanced deep into Russia.





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Post #: 162
RE: FITE 2 - 2/16/2021 2:35:09 PM   
Teufeldk

 

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Oh, I forgot about the Finns:

They are easy to take out, but I think that was also the case historically.

After all the after their initial failures, the Russians did defeat the Finns in 40. If they had unleashed their 41 winter offensive at the Finns instead of the Germans at Moscow I am sure they could have defeated them again.

And that has been my thinking: the Germans need to put so much pressure on the Russians that they can't afford to commit substantial forces to the Finns in the winter of 41/42.

I am not sure if we have succeeded in that, but that was the idea. On top of that, we have added the red star line releasing the Germans in Norway and given the Russian a -2 supply penalty if they cross it before the summer of 43.

But it is possible that more has to be done.

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Post #: 163
RE: FITE 2 - 2/16/2021 4:25:01 PM   
Teufeldk

 

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A further point that cannot be understated is that the first 3 turns - at least - demands extreme planning on the german side to gain the momentum you need.

If you just more or less randomly move units here and there you are doomed from the beginning.

The below picture is the first turn Søren sent to me. All units south Riga are destroyed. That makes it very difficult to set up any kind of defense before Pskov.

And this is just one example from the front.

I am not saying one needs to replicate this entirely (I myself can't do that - as said elsewhere just is a beast as the Germans), but you really do need a very good start as the Germans to get the ball rolling.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 164
RE: FITE 2 - 2/16/2021 4:31:09 PM   
Teufeldk

 

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And here is the area around Lvov on turn 1




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 165
RE: FITE 2 - 2/16/2021 10:59:10 PM   
Simon Edmonds

 

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Hey Gliz2
quote:

I learned the hard way that if Soviet player is allowed to play without the restrictions then ze Germans have little chance of success, not slightest of winning.

When you consider the Soviet winter offensive in 1941; the Germans held, but it was a close run thing. Losing three quarters of a million men just before the mud season came back to hamstring the Russians in the winter. They could replace the men easily enough but they couldn't replace the equipment. Try to defend the winter offensive with the Russians having an extra 4 equipped armies and Army Group Center shatters like glass almost every time.
Given that the loss of those armies was a huge historic blunder that Fite2 Russian commanders just don't make; a well balanced game should see the Germans in a world of hurt by spring of 1942.

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Post #: 166
RE: FITE 2 - 2/17/2021 6:33:40 AM   
FaneFlugt


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Concerning the 41-42 soviet Winter offensive in FITE then I agree that a retreating soviet player have a large intact force to smash the german player.

In my opinion, then the only way to counter this as the german is to pull out all of your Panzer divisions before the offensive and keep them mobile and on rail to plug any developing soviet breakthroughs. You should also divide ALL you infantry into their subunits. The loss in overall Combat numbers isnt that bad compared to the problems a breakthrough can create. Put the first line on minimise losses, second line on limit losses and the last line on ignore losses. Spread out you artillery. The amount of losses the soviet player takes is around 5-1, and even with his superior manpower production he will soon start to hurt.

Also in the first 15-20 turns of the soviet offensive, he dosent have that many tanks and when he gets his reinforcments to the front for the last 10 turns, the Germans get tons of flak 8,8 cm units to insert into the most stressed sections of the front. Overall the soviets will have advanced 3-5 hexes and Burnt alot of manpower.

When summer comes you will be able to encircle All those juicy soviet tank armies and hopefully survive another Winter.

I still think there should be some reason to make a drive towards the caucasus in 42 as the germans, there isnt really any in the current scenario.



< Message edited by FaneFlugt -- 2/17/2021 6:36:17 AM >


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Post #: 167
RE: FITE 2 - 2/28/2021 6:02:35 AM   
gliz2

 

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So first things first:
1. Up to December German losses were rather calculated in both in menpower and resources. Of almost 550k casualties only 20% did not recover by summer 42. Losses in equipment were also mostly recovered.
2. Soviet losses were exceptionally severe: 5 mln men killed or captured, over 2 mln casualties, 4k AVCs destroyed or lost, over 5k planes lost. There was little capacity to replace anything else than manpower losses.
3. The winter of 1941/42 was extreme. German Army was well prepared for normal winter of up to -15C but not for -25C or below. There is a nice article about it availabe through Google search.
But the worst casualty factor was Hitler who forbid any retreats.
4. Had Hitler not have declared war to USA the 1942 would be ever worse for Soviets than Barbarossa. The Lend-Lease would have a much more limited impact.
5. Had Germans stopped their offensive by Winter and set up defense as suggested by the generals in field the Soviet offensive would have been hampered and the losses would have been limited.
6. Finally: the biggest issue for Germans was Hitler who interfered even at divisional level and constantly changing objectives and reshuffling units (sometimes moving them by 600 km just to order them month later to go back).
Wasn't it for Hitler's constant micromanagement the Germans would have fared much better.


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Post #: 168
RE: FITE 2 - 2/28/2021 6:58:41 AM   
gliz2

 

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I had a "pleasure" of playing against opponent skilled in the mechanics.
I surrender as Soviet commander in early October 1941 soon as German spearhead reached 50km from Moscow.
I was not defeated by tactical brilliancy nor did I made any blunders. My opponent was able to perfectly execute his turn and he knew how to use all the engine.
I am more of old school face-to-face negotiating plausible outcome type of player. And don't force the engine.

Another "issue" is the predictability. PlayingJm JTS PzC Market Garden I never know which bridge will get blown and where the reinforcements will come from. This makes it so much more difficult.
In FITE2 the things are programmed (the expected reinforcements and historical events) and balanced for the gameplay.
The thing is that no Army in the world would just sit and not counterattack, which is what a good Soviet strategy for summer '41 is.
And no commander had neither foresight and full control over events.

I know that it is not possible but what I'd love to see is to have more ahistorical events incl. weather.
Maybe at least give some options like releasing airborne for German?

As to the Finns. The difference between 40 and 41 was the support. The Germans were ready to ship over 100k infantry and some 200 planes and over 100 tanks if needs be to help Finns versus Soviets.
The Soviets didn't see much of a threat from Finns other than cutting the Murmansk railway and surrounding Leningrad. The offensive capabilities of Finnish army were quite limited.


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Post #: 169
RE: FITE 2 - 3/4/2021 2:33:24 PM   
gliz2

 

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INTERROGATIVE
Is there any estimation on the release of 2.0?
I am pondering of starting anew but if its in next 5-6 weeks I would rather go straight to v.2.0
Many thanks for your hard work guys!

Would someone be so kind to post here the FITE counter icons. I have installed ZOVs without making a backup and now how NATO 80s counters :(

< Message edited by gliz2 -- 3/5/2021 7:15:12 AM >


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Post #: 170
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 2:29:57 PM   
torbenalbertsen

 

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Hi again

sorry I havent responded yet to the dialogue with faneflugt about finland. So a detailed update on our game is in order (from my kremlin side) and a few things of problematic content. We are now 3-4 turns from the spring mud 42, so my russian off is finally drawing to an end. By throwing everything I have had against the finish I have been able to nearly beat them. This has been my main and almost only offensive during the winter. Yes, the red line got activated by a zoc, and I screamed its activation, but since I am 6-8 hexes from helsinki I think in the hindsight that it was a good thing for me. Only a few generals got sent to siberia for this political blunder, but they have made some russian proverb from this political blunder and its resulting military victory, so all is well in kremlin, for now.

Navel problems. *proberbly experimental art of warfare problem and not FITE.....)

3 experiments...

1. navel to navel. my russian baltic fleet is safely tugged away in leningrad, since the german baltic fleet is dominating and helping the finnish. I tried as an experiment to let my 7 stack fleet go to a 7 range hex within the 7 stack german fleet, led by tirpitz, and it got totally squashed. Not only tirpitz shot at my fleet but also those of lower ranges, at 7 range...arrgghhh.. and I didnt fire 1 shot...totally irresponsible programming....deadlock there...fleets seem to work as locking power

2. art to navel. None of our art have been able to target any navel units...only navel batteries fire to devestating effect. This was not the case in 1.4, so something seems to have changed to 1.9.....is it supposed to be like this.....(question mark)

3. air to navel. We have played with no navel interception...very little effect. One succes raid by germans on russian black sea fleet, they got 2 hits, one 1 and one 3 if I recall correctly, he stopped becasue of the heavy casualties on his planes. the battleship he hit is nearly recovered...takes a looong time. two attacks by pe2, with 4 anti ship by russia on german baltic fleet. one by 700 pe2 on 7 stack fleet, 300 planes destroyed and not one hit, wether was fine.....remarkable ineffective. another attack by around 300 pe2 on a small fleet of 3 lighter ships, aprox. 100 lost and no hits.

conclusion///complete deadlock with respect to navel engagements. his tirpitz fleet could stay outside leningrad and i have no options of throwing him off. Maybe later when i get russian planes with more anti ship and better profesiency I can do something...

possible solution///we have agreed to impliment navel interception from mud period with a max of 3 units...we will see if this somehow breaks the deadlock.








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Post #: 171
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 2:40:26 PM   
torbenalbertsen

 

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One last thing.

I didnt start my finnish campaign untill roughly 10 turn into the offensive. If I had begun before I would have had helsinki by now, learning by doing....

I think this is important in regards to the rules of finland. If perfectly possible to conquer finland in first russian winter offensive, maybe it should be possible for germany to call more reinforcemtns to finland, or maybe let finish troops go beyond some of the red lines in the beginning.

< Message edited by torbenalbertsen -- 3/5/2021 4:29:19 PM >

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Post #: 172
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 4:29:25 PM   
Teufeldk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gliz2

INTERROGATIVE
Is there any estimation on the release of 2.0?
I am pondering of starting anew but if its in next 5-6 weeks I would rather go straight to v.2.0
Many thanks for your hard work guys!

Would someone be so kind to post here the FITE counter icons. I have installed ZOVs without making a backup and now how NATO 80s counters :(


I think it is gonna be a while. Certainly more than 5-6 weeks.


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Post #: 173
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 4:49:29 PM   
loveman2

 

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I kinda agree with torbenalbertsen comments regarding the German player in 1941, I've played a few games as Germans and when it comes to the mud/ winter turns the Russian payers can simply pick off the German units by bombarding them to nothing, in the mud the Germans can hardly move at all but the Russian can blast the crap out of the German units. What Gliz2 says is true a Russian opponent can simply retreat all his artillery units etc etc to a defensive line well within Russia and wait for the Germans to reach it and fight a stalemate on that line.

In history the Russians stood and fought their ground in 1941 however your opponent can simply delay the German and horde his units to overwhelm the Germans in the Winter. Even if your German front line is 3 units deep your Russian opponent will smash through it after several turns in 1941. I think the Russians are too strong in 1941 especially the Winter.

The Russian fleet is totally unsinkable except to shore batteries, planes nor artillery will sink them they can be used to grind the germans to dust at Leningrad of Sevastopol, I think they should be made much weaker and easier to sink with artillery or planes. My opponent has found that engineer units can bridge the Taman peninsuka and move hordes of Russian units across it with ease surley this is a programming mistake?

I love the FITE2 scenario and would love to play someone that stands and fights like Russia actually did rather that run away and use delaying tactics.

As for the Russian airforce in my current game my opponent has an entire replenished airforce during the winter of 1941 and seems invincible.

(in reply to Teufeldk)
Post #: 174
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 5:57:33 PM   
torbenalbertsen

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline
Ok. one question

the american lee and stuart tanks the russians get have 8 and 9 in armor. A t34 first version has 8, and they were considered very hard to kill by the germans. Isent this a bit much? Now, I know next to nothing about ww2 tanks, but from just reading a little bit here and there these tanks seemed to be early american wartanks and are not generally described as up to the standards of t34 for example. Could someone who knows maybe enlighten me, that is, if their armor is actually historically accurate or not?

thanks in advance

(in reply to loveman2)
Post #: 175
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 6:18:00 PM   
FaneFlugt


Posts: 188
Joined: 7/27/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Concerning the american tanks supplied to the USSR, could the designers be so kind as to clarify what the effects of keeping the german fleet in the baltics is, it says that it activates additional lend-lease units to the soviets. What is the precise effects?

Ive been looking into the scenario files but I cant find any information on this subject.

I find it very logical that if the germans keep their navy in the baltics the allies have an easier time of sending lend-lease to the USSR, I dont find that weird, I just wonder if there is any numbers avaible so the german player can ponder if it is a good idea.



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(in reply to torbenalbertsen)
Post #: 176
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 6:27:53 PM   
FaneFlugt


Posts: 188
Joined: 7/27/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
As Ive said before then I think alot of the negativity towards the soviets being overpowered in the 1941/42 winter offensive, comes from games where the german player have pressed the german army to their extreme before the mud period and the winteroffensive kicks in. As the german player you need to slow down 3-4 turns before the first mud. Divide all your units into subunits, dig in, spread out your artillery and keep all your panzer divsions in reserve.

Its true that you will loose alot of units in the soviets attacks but the soviets will looses even more and since their amoured units dont really appear in mass, before the middle of the winter offensive, its possible to hold them of. untill they soviet player realize that summer is coming and he needs to slow down.

Expect to looses 4-5 hexes along your entire front or maybe 15-20 hexes in 2-3 areas in total.

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(in reply to FaneFlugt)
Post #: 177
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 7:32:47 PM   
Teufeldk

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/11/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: loveman2

I kinda agree with torbenalbertsen comments regarding the German player in 1941, I've played a few games as Germans and when it comes to the mud/ winter turns the Russian payers can simply pick off the German units by bombarding them to nothing, in the mud the Germans can hardly move at all but the Russian can blast the crap out of the German units. What Gliz2 says is true a Russian opponent can simply retreat all his artillery units etc etc to a defensive line well within Russia and wait for the Germans to reach it and fight a stalemate on that line.

In history the Russians stood and fought their ground in 1941 however your opponent can simply delay the German and horde his units to overwhelm the Germans in the Winter. Even if your German front line is 3 units deep your Russian opponent will smash through it after several turns in 1941. I think the Russians are too strong in 1941 especially the Winter.

The Russian fleet is totally unsinkable except to shore batteries, planes nor artillery will sink them they can be used to grind the germans to dust at Leningrad of Sevastopol, I think they should be made much weaker and easier to sink with artillery or planes. My opponent has found that engineer units can bridge the Taman peninsuka and move hordes of Russian units across it with ease surley this is a programming mistake?

I love the FITE2 scenario and would love to play someone that stands and fights like Russia actually did rather that run away and use delaying tactics.

As for the Russian airforce in my current game my opponent has an entire replenished airforce during the winter of 1941 and seems invincible.


There is no doubt that balancing 41 has been difficult for us. I but believe that we are pretty close now. I also correlate closely with the different playing styles that people have (and that goes for all scenarios). But that I mean that if a scenario calls for quick and swift advance and you are a cautious player, you will get in trouble very fast and vice versa.

I can only speak for myself (and note that I dont claim that I am a good player), but playing the Russians against Søren has been absolute murder.

I used the delaying/zone defense tactic, and build a line at the Narwa river to Novgorod, and from there to Rezhev-Ghansk-Kaluga.

I put a strong force in Pskov to try to delay him a few turns there. That defense was slowly destroyed and the last devastating breakthrough was made on the german blitz turn at turn 7. I have posted the pictures from turn 4 to 7 below. A german player that concentrates his forces (especially armor, mech and art) can break any line. And the german player needs to make the most of those blitz turns.

My Narva line was broken on turn 12 (at Narva), and from there I could not stop him before the mud set in. He reached a line east of Tikhvin. I played poorly in the Leningrad defense, no doubt about that, but even if I had played optimal, actually holding Leningrad would in no way be certain.

To show how much damage a german player can do in a blitz turn I have also posted 2 pictures from the Stalingrad front. One before and after he unleashed Typhoon. I was not the strongest front but it is hard to come from a blow like that, and I ended up retreating behind the Don river.

PS. about the Russian fleet: Søren had no trouble sinking the large Russian battleships in blitz turns. The other ships - that is true - are more difficult to sink.




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Kristian


(in reply to loveman2)
Post #: 178
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 7:33:39 PM   
Teufeldk

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/11/2014
Status: offline
Pskov turn 4




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Kristian


(in reply to Teufeldk)
Post #: 179
RE: FITE 2 - 3/5/2021 7:34:11 PM   
Teufeldk

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/11/2014
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Pskov turn 5




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Kristian


(in reply to Teufeldk)
Post #: 180
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