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RE: FITE 2 - 8/3/2019 6:36:17 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

I'm playing two games of FitE2 and I've also looked at it turn by turn for all of 1941. You talk about things that you have no knowledge of.

Well if you are, then hoorah and since you are so experienced in scenario design you can easily change it to the way you want it, so why bother the scenario designer's ? If you think there is a mistake or an oversight then sure, state it. But to go on and on about how they have to do it your way is ridiculous.


Never said anyone had to do anything. People are free to do as they please. For instance this thread. BTW, partisans can be represented by an event and you don't even need to have partisan units. By 1944 almost 60% of Belarus was controlled by partisans. Kind of makes you wonder what Germany conquered. Partisan forces had a huge effect on the East Front. They fairly controlled Odessa after the Soviets left.

This:
The new version will see a nerfed Soviet side, still trying to balance it, but is quite close now.

I was merely suggesting a way to make that happen. Keeping the security divisions which had some historical basis. Somehow it was misunderstood. By fairly everyone. How could so many miss that?

And this:
By all means keep the questions coming. Improvement is a team effort ;)
Thanks
Have a nice day
Regards
The Doc (aka Søren)


Again, I've never said anyone had to do anything. Someone said the security divisions didn't go away. I pointed out that they did. Someone said the Soviets had to be nerfed. I suggested keeping the security divisions. It's a great scenario. Never said it wasn't. I never claimed to be superior to anyone. I'm not troubled by arrogance. See enough of that in this forum as it is.

I simply state history and how keeping some of the German units that are removed is a way the scenario might be balanced while not making it ahistorical. Simply an observation.

Now if you want to rag on and on go ahead it's a free forum. But nothing I've said is derogatory, disrespectful or without merit.

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Post #: 91
RE: FITE 2 - 8/3/2019 7:06:26 PM   
BigDuke66


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I guess the designers would make a statement if they are tired of someones feedback.
I don't see a reason to suppress someone voicing his opinion here, doesn't matter if the designers follow it right away or not as the first reason for feedback is to start a discussion, that is why stuff gets posted here and not simply send to the designers by PM or mail. That discussion leads hopefully to a conclusion and that conclusion is something the designers can consider or ignore, but this point of decision has to be reached first and that doesn't go without a discussion.

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Post #: 92
RE: FITE 2 - 8/4/2019 2:54:08 PM   
gliz2

 

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Just wanted to add last thing.

In order to get historical results one would have to include the crucial factors:
1. Hitler's and Stalin's impact on command (not retreating possible, constant changes of objectives etc.).
2. Randomize as much as possible events. So maybe no Land-Lease which actually was the thing that saved Soviets in 1942/43. Maybe Finland not joining Axis.
3. Randomize logistics. That the things went as they did was related to the circumstances. The further you go down the road the less sense it have to have historically actual units. It can be any generic unit being deployed at a generic event.
Example: player have option to specify what type of unit should be priority for the given year.
A. Focus on infantry units (less tank divisions, more SPGs and artillery)
B. Focus on fighters (increased fighters production but less bombers and less artillery and supporting vehicles for infantry)
C. Focus on mechanized units (less divisions in general but more mechanized)
D. Focus on tank units (less mechanized units but much more tanks)

I have discovered that if Soviet player is obliged to attack the Germans as historically the Soviets were than the German player can achieve historical results and the whole "balancing" is not needed. But otherwise the Soviet player possessing the historical knowledge can quite easily hold off the Germans in 1941-42 and go on a full offensive as early as 1943.

< Message edited by gliz2 -- 8/4/2019 3:11:21 PM >


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Post #: 93
RE: FITE 2 - 8/4/2019 3:19:29 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

I guess the designers would make a statement if they are tired of someones feedback.

They did - in post #69 On that note lets close the discussion on the "lets play without partisans" event

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Post #: 94
RE: FITE 2 - 8/4/2019 3:41:48 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

I guess the designers would make a statement if they are tired of someones feedback.

They did - in post #69 On that note lets close the discussion on the "lets play without partisans" event


This was never about the let's play partisans event. This was about doing something to change the strength of the Soviets...er, Germans. To better balance the scenario. Such as not removing some units. If you would bother to read you would see in post 60 I suggested leaving in the Sich divisions to better balance the scenario. Everyone else mentioned partisans. If I mentioned them it was only in response to other off subject posts such as when the scenario designer said the Sich divisions did not get removed. I simply showed that they did indeed get removed, when and why.

See that avatar. It's fairly descriptive of what is happening here.

This is a great scenario. I like to ask questions about how it might deviate from history to know how or why things are changed or seem to be changed. The scenario designer is very gracious in answering everyone's questions. Never felt otherwise.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 8/4/2019 4:08:22 PM >


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Post #: 95
RE: FITE 2 - 8/5/2019 12:48:10 PM   
Lobster


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Does anyone know what effect factories have? I can find nothing in the short briefing other than move them here or there but not why move them.

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Post #: 96
RE: FITE 2 - 8/5/2019 12:53:54 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Oh lord here he goes again, off on another lecture as to how a scenario should be designed in his eyes.

Again, stop trying to justify your opinions and go design your own scenario.

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Post #: 97
RE: FITE 2 - 8/5/2019 3:16:46 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Oh lord here he goes again, off on another lecture as to how a scenario should be designed in his eyes.

Again, stop trying to justify your opinions and go design your own scenario.


Do you understand what a bully is?

I asked a simple and honest question.

This forum would be better off if you just left me alone and stopped badgering me and bullying me no matter what the subject.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 8/5/2019 3:23:24 PM >


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Post #: 98
RE: FITE 2 - 8/5/2019 4:22:52 PM   
Lobster


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No, really. It's my turn 4 and I need to know if I need to use my rail capacity to move factories or if I can leave them. I just need to know what purpose they serve. There's nothing about them in the briefing that came with TOAW.

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Post #: 99
RE: FITE 2 - 8/6/2019 3:52:23 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
No, really. It's my turn 4 and I need to know if I need to use my rail capacity to move factories or if I can leave them. I just need to know what purpose they serve. There's nothing about them in the briefing that came with TOAW.

I was playing Patrick as the FITE2 Soviet player for a while so I feel your pain. I'm not sure what they [ the factories ] DO for the scenario and I'm aware of the lack of information reguarding them in the FITE2 documentation and as a result I decided to adopt the principle of "least damage" and just move the MF's east out to the Urals as I have enough leftover rail cap to do so. Some of them, I discovered, cannot move and I'm hoping there's an event that releases them for movement or something behind the scenes that somehow allows for their movement. Kiev comes to mind. I'm going to post a question for the scenario designers about the factories to back you up and hopefully get somebody on the FITE2 team to say something about them. It's not an unimportant detail, something to be left hanging out there in space-time without an answer. Somebody must know.

Be aware that I've decided that the latest varient of the home rules for FITE2 has ruined the scenario for me. The rule that INT missions are out for the length of the game. Imposing this rule on the Axis player cripples the strength and capabilities of the Axis air force to an unrealistic extent. Especially in the early war years. I can't see me playing such an "unrealistic" scenario given the number of competing East Front theme scenarios. The latest version of FITE, and the latest version of D21 come to mind. FITE2 is on the verge of being TOO BIG TO PLAY for the ordinary wargammer, including me. I'm not sure I'm going to live long enough to PBEM it to the end of the scenario. I'm watching fogger and his opponent, whose name escapes me just now, only just now arriving at the end-game stage and they started that game a long time before the latest TOAW release. Their AAR was transfered from the development board to the public board shortly after the release of the latest version of TOAW had already happened. It's been going on for approx. a year now I'm guessing. But I ramble.


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Post #: 100
RE: FITE 2 - 8/6/2019 6:35:27 AM   
cpt flam


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I think that in soviet OOB, they are indication about products by factories.
Larry can those not possible to move being "bonus" factories. Those awarded for great speed of advance.
From memory, about 5 000 rail capacity for each; may be 6K in Moscow.

Authorizing INT would cripple some moves by Russia in the first turns.
I tried few turns against myself with some. Units arriving as reinforcement near Moscow, took train and after few hexes HQ interdicted and no more moves.

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Post #: 101
RE: FITE 2 - 8/6/2019 4:58:12 PM   
BigDuke66


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Playing without interdiction seems pretty harsh & unrealistic.
Why not just limit the number of units set to interdiction per Heeresgruppe?

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Post #: 102
RE: FITE 2 - 8/10/2019 11:13:39 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Does anyone know what effect factories have? I can find nothing in the short briefing other than move them here or there but not why move them.


Still would like an answer to this please. Does anyone know what the official answer is?

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Post #: 103
RE: FITE 2 - 8/11/2019 6:43:06 AM   
docgaun

 

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Lobster
The factories represent a pool of factories. As can be seen from the OOB, and the Manual (still not sure if you have those things) It will lower the Soviet production with 5% if they are destroyed (for each) . So YES, you need to move them. 😉
There is not enough room to post it in the scenario briefing, but I guess we can clarify it in the Short briefing. Again, its mentioned in the OOB and in the manual.
AND all the sec divisions are in game, they are not removed, unless you take the option, or historically reassigned/disbanded.

Gliz2
There are many things I wanted to do differently, but we are restricted by the game engine. So, we took a decision to do it as historically as possible. But remember, when you move the first unit, you are reshaping history. Our goal is to give you the historical units and production, in the correct historical locations and see if there couldn’t come historical game out of it.

Larry.
The Germans receive bonus factories (it’s just more captured equipment) if they advance faster than historically. Its to keep the Soviet forward and fighting. You can disband them and then they go to your equipment pool.
I am sorry that you find other scenarios better, but I do understand that Fite2 is a monster to play. That’s why one should talk about length and options and house rules before playing the scenario. As mentioned, before I do love interdiction, but its really all to powerful. The Germans can’t move any artillery from mid-43 forward and has supply reduced by 4 allover the front. And in 1941 the Soviet player can’t rail. The House rules are the once Kristian and I have implemented for us to have a more balanced game (for the 2 of us). If you can find an opponent that wants to play with interdiction, by all means do. If you don’t kill the soviets in 1941 as Axis you are dead by autumn 1944. Sorry that’s just interdiction.

BigDuke 66
About interdiction. As above, but you and your opponent can decide otherwise. Same with e.g. bridge bombing.

Notes:
As to historical advance. Have you seen Kristians opening moves against me? I haven’t played the Germans, but he obliterates the entire front, and is very much on historical pace on turn 1 and 2 and only a few bad turn and me being a real systematic barstard on defense held him from historical results.
The OOB and the Manual and indeed the shortbriefing is ever changing, and the manual is not finished yet.

I run 3 companies and work as a doctor IRL so FITE2 is a spare time job, and I do have 3 kids and a wife that like me (I hope) so sorry if it takes me time to respond.
Have a wonderfull day
Regards
Søren

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Post #: 104
RE: FITE 2 - 8/11/2019 1:15:12 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Lobster
The factories represent a pool of factories. As can be seen from the OOB, and the Manual (still not sure if you have those things) It will lower the Soviet production with 5% if they are destroyed (for each) . So YES, you need to move them. 😉
There is not enough room to post it in the scenario briefing, but I guess we can clarify it in the Short briefing. Again, its mentioned in the OOB and in the manual.
AND all the sec divisions are in game, they are not removed, unless you take the option, or historically reassigned/disbanded.


Hmm...not finding a manual. Only the Short Briefing. Anyway, thanks for the answer. So I better move them unless I want my replacements to dwindle. In the where I'm playing as the Axis I decided to go for rail hexes. A mad dash for three turns. That was great fun.

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Post #: 105
RE: FITE 2 - 8/12/2019 4:09:12 AM   
tigercub


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i am an old wargamer played more than most...(FITE2 is on the verge of being TOO BIG TO PLAY for the ordinary wargamer)Iarry`s quote is the reason i not playing FITE2...Div size game is perfect like D21 but its only single player!
each to his own.

Tigercub

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Post #: 106
RE: FITE 2 - 8/12/2019 11:22:44 AM   
Lobster


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Formation, OOB, next/previous unit and next/previous formation is the way you can easily play a scenario of this size.

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Post #: 107
RE: FITE 2 - 8/12/2019 12:06:52 PM   
fogger

 

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Fite 2 is the only game I play now. I can never go back. I think FITE 3 should be on a 2.5 km hex. Now that is something to look forward to ;-)

< Message edited by fogger -- 8/23/2019 8:56:15 AM >


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Post #: 108
RE: FITE 2 - 8/20/2019 3:58:05 PM   
docgaun

 

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Fite 3 will be the entire war, in Europe, with north africa from 1939 to 1945 on regimental and battalion level.

Ill try to include the manual in the next version. Its however not finished. I simply lack the time, but it is with the calculations.

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Post #: 109
RE: FITE 2 - 8/20/2019 4:22:12 PM   
Zovs


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Maybe not call it FITE 3, but Grand European War.

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Post #: 110
RE: FITE 2 - 8/20/2019 5:38:57 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: docgaun
Fite 3 will be the entire war, in Europe, with north africa from 1939 to 1945 on regimental and battalion level.


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Post #: 111
RE: FITE 2 - 8/20/2019 7:11:53 PM   
Lobster


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I've had musings about a war in Europe but with one side as the Soviets and German West front and one side as the Western Allies and German East front. First Allied side to Berlin wins.

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Post #: 112
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