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RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues

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RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/15/2019 7:56:27 PM   

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ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

Another one example of NKVD units's action.

10th Stalingrad Rifle Division of VV NKVD during defense of Stalingrad.
From Wiki(in English) -
More detailed but in Russian -

The Advanced Squad Leader "Valor of the Guards" module really likes them. They are super-elite troops with the same morale as the (I would argue over-strong) SS units (though less firepower).

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 181
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/15/2019 9:20:03 PM   


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IDK the best ASL germans are the elite combat engineer assault squads....those guys at 8-3-8 if I remember right are insanely strong.

ASL is interesting because if you play a TOE german battalion vs like similar size/sized soviet forces you can very quickly see why the Germans won a lot in 1941---its mainly because they have so many more and better supporting weapons/arms within the BN compared to a similar amount of soviets/soviet formations.

Soviet best units are 6-2-8? if I remember right or 5-3-8 for elite engineers.....been awhile since ive done some ASL...basically at close range Soviets can be very deadly in ASL but anything over 3 hexes the germans usually win out...esp due to the amount of LMG and MMG.

Anything with 8 morale in ASL is tough...look at US Marines in the pacific and US paras those squads are insanely tough as well.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 182
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/16/2019 6:54:53 AM   

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Joined: 7/5/2011
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ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer


ORIGINAL: 56ajax

Hi Dreamslayer,

What was the operational purpose of these units? Internal security or military operations against a foreign power?

Hey John.

Looks like for both. Before the war they was for internal security,security of Fronts/M.D.s rears and for strengthening of NKVD border guards units in various border districts. But with start of the war various units of various military(and not only) departaments was used on front.

J Erickson, The Soviet High Command, gives for 1934: civilian and Military traffic accident numbers. 62000 accidents with damage to 7000 locomotives. A large scale war mobilisation saw huge numbers of accidents( delays arising from accidents) involving the movement of troops by rail, NKVD took over safety on the railroads next year, but he does not say what effect that had on accident numbers. NKVD had a quite diverse remit.

< Message edited by Hanny -- 10/16/2019 7:14:27 AM >

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 183
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/21/2019 8:53:46 PM   


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
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Some corrections about the armored cars for the start TOE of some units.
(also some info for case #2)

Rifle divisions (currently has only 4 BA-10) :
10 BA-10 (sep.recon btn)
3 BA-20 (sep.signal btn)

Motorized divisions (currently has only 39 BA-20) :
BA-10 18 (10 - sep.recon btn, 4x2 moto-rifle rgt)
BA-20 31 or 33 (7 - sep.recon btn, 6x2 moto-rifle rgt, 9 – tank rgt, 3 or 5 – regulation coy(traffic control coy))
(repair-recovery btn – 20 BT)

Tank divisions :
BA-10 56 (12 - sep.recon btn, 17x2 – tank rgt, 5 - moto-rifle rgt, 5 - sep.signal btn)
BA-20 39 (6 - sep.recon btn, 8x2 – tank rgt, 12 - moto-rifle rgt, 5 - sep.signal btn)
(sep.signal btn – 1 KV, 4 T-34, 7 BT)

Cavalry divisions. I'm still looking for detailed info about it. But currently the issue is that the actual TOE has only BA-10's but TOE has both.

Case #2.
Some units has in their shtats a tanks and a/c that was designed for “non-combat” sub-units. E.g. signal units / regulation coys(traffic control coys)/ repair-recovery units etc. So, it's unlikely that they had a same priority as a combat sub-units (like tank battalions/recon battalions etc). So, perhaps the elements like a tanks and a/c should be removed from TOE.
Then need to remove :
Rifle Div - 3 BA-20 (sep.signal btn)
Motorized Div - 3 or 5 – regulation coy(traffic control coy) and (repair-recovery btn – 20 BT)
Tank Div – 5 BA-10 (sep.signal btn), 5 BA-20 (sep.signal btn), (sep.signal btn – 1 KV, 4 T-34, 7 BT).


(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 184
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/26/2019 6:20:00 PM   


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
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The new forming cavalry divisions should has reduced TOE (41b Cavalry Division). Atm at least 2nd,53rd,4th(there are many untill August,but I'm not checked each) has TOE 41a Cavalry Division.
Probably there is need to create the additional TOE between 41a and 41b. Because initial versions of "raiding" Cavalry divisions was about 3-3,5k men and had minimal support/rear part.
This new additional TOE about(based on GKO's order on 11 Aug,41):
3277 men total, horses - 3553, rifles - 2826, MG - 36(probably some of them should be AA), LMG - 50, PPSh - 200, 45mm AT-guns - 12, 76mm guns - 12, 82mm mortars - 9, 50mm mortars - 48, trucks - 15 , special trucks/cars - 10.
This new TOE could be from August and current 41b could be moved to December or to January.


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 185
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 11/7/2019 11:29:19 AM   


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
8th IAK PVO (Baku).

Starts forming on basis of NKO order 19 June 1941 (same order was started forming 6th and 7th IAK's PVO). Forming finished 14 July 1941. The basis of this new formation became air-regiments of 27th and 71st IAD's.
The HQ whole war was located in Baku.
Commander (14 July 1941 – 29 Sep 1942) – Ivan Puntus (colonel, from 1 Sep 1943 GMA).

Same M.D. :

68th IAD.
Probably need to remove from the game data. Looks like this unit was forming in Far East as part of 5th BAK (Long Range Aviation), but forming was not finished and IAD was disbanded in July 1941.

25th SAD.
On start of the war HQ located in Kutaisi.
Missed 18th BAP (Kutaisi) that had SB-2. Nov 1941 was transferred to Leningrad Front.
35th IAP PVO (currently in 27th IAD). Located in Chorokh AF (Batumi), probably whole war located there.

< Message edited by Dreamslayer -- 11/7/2019 1:16:46 PM >


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 186
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 11/10/2019 6:44:58 PM   


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
50th Rifle Division

Initial location of this unit should be more to west. Currently it starts near Polotsk.
From the war diary(?) of Western Front on 22 June:
"50th RD in the Dunilovichi area on the march from Polotsk to Krevo area."
From Wiki :
On 15 June the division received order from 3rd Army commander "from 18 June to march from Polotsk area and concentrate in the forest 10 km SW of Smorgon". On the march the division was subordinated to herself by command of 13th Army. Received the task "on 24 June together with 5th Tank Division, Vilna(Vilnius) infantry school and 84th NKVD rgt to cover Molodechno from NW at the Danyushevo-Smorgon line. Parts of the division immediately went into battle with enemy forces on the Viliya river, northwest of Molodechno, with battles retreated to Pleshchenitsy.
On the map of Western Front on 22 June:

(marks: 1 – Postavy, 2 – Glubokoe, 3 - Dunilovichi)


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 187
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