Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Scenario Design and Modding >> RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues Page: <<   < prev  3 4 5 6 [7]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/15/2019 7:56:27 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 1905
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

Another one example of NKVD units's action.

10th Stalingrad Rifle Division of VV NKVD during defense of Stalingrad.
From Wiki(in English) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_NKVD_Rifle_Division
More detailed but in Russian - http://voenspez.ru/index.php?topic=7580.0

The Advanced Squad Leader "Valor of the Guards" module really likes them. They are super-elite troops with the same morale as the (I would argue over-strong) SS units (though less firepower).

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 181
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/15/2019 9:20:03 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1858
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline
IDK the best ASL germans are the elite combat engineer assault squads....those guys at 8-3-8 if I remember right are insanely strong.

ASL is interesting because if you play a TOE german battalion vs like similar size/sized soviet forces you can very quickly see why the Germans won a lot in 1941---its mainly because they have so many more and better supporting weapons/arms within the BN compared to a similar amount of soviets/soviet formations.

Soviet best units are 6-2-8? if I remember right or 5-3-8 for elite engineers.....been awhile since ive done some ASL...basically at close range Soviets can be very deadly in ASL but anything over 3 hexes the germans usually win out...esp due to the amount of LMG and MMG.

Anything with 8 morale in ASL is tough...look at US Marines in the pacific and US paras those squads are insanely tough as well.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 182
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/16/2019 6:54:53 AM   
Hanny


Posts: 188
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax

Hi Dreamslayer,

What was the operational purpose of these units? Internal security or military operations against a foreign power?

Hey John.

Looks like for both. Before the war they was for internal security,security of Fronts/M.D.s rears and for strengthening of NKVD border guards units in various border districts. But with start of the war various units of various military(and not only) departaments was used on front.




J Erickson, The Soviet High Command, gives for 1934: civilian and Military traffic accident numbers. 62000 accidents with damage to 7000 locomotives. A large scale war mobilisation saw huge numbers of accidents( delays arising from accidents) involving the movement of troops by rail, NKVD took over safety on the railroads next year, but he does not say what effect that had on accident numbers. NKVD had a quite diverse remit.



< Message edited by Hanny -- 10/16/2019 7:14:27 AM >

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 183
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/21/2019 8:53:46 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
Some corrections about the armored cars for the start TOE of some units.
(also some info for case #2)

Rifle divisions (currently has only 4 BA-10) :
10 BA-10 (sep.recon btn)
3 BA-20 (sep.signal btn)

Motorized divisions (currently has only 39 BA-20) :
BA-10 18 (10 - sep.recon btn, 4x2 moto-rifle rgt)
BA-20 31 or 33 (7 - sep.recon btn, 6x2 moto-rifle rgt, 9 – tank rgt, 3 or 5 – regulation coy(traffic control coy))
(repair-recovery btn – 20 BT)

Tank divisions :
BA-10 56 (12 - sep.recon btn, 17x2 – tank rgt, 5 - moto-rifle rgt, 5 - sep.signal btn)
BA-20 39 (6 - sep.recon btn, 8x2 – tank rgt, 12 - moto-rifle rgt, 5 - sep.signal btn)
(sep.signal btn – 1 KV, 4 T-34, 7 BT)

Cavalry divisions. I'm still looking for detailed info about it. But currently the issue is that the actual TOE has only BA-10's but TOE has both.

Case #2.
Some units has in their shtats a tanks and a/c that was designed for “non-combat” sub-units. E.g. signal units / regulation coys(traffic control coys)/ repair-recovery units etc. So, it's unlikely that they had a same priority as a combat sub-units (like tank battalions/recon battalions etc). So, perhaps the elements like a tanks and a/c should be removed from TOE.
Then need to remove :
Rifle Div - 3 BA-20 (sep.signal btn)
Motorized Div - 3 or 5 – regulation coy(traffic control coy) and (repair-recovery btn – 20 BT)
Tank Div – 5 BA-10 (sep.signal btn), 5 BA-20 (sep.signal btn), (sep.signal btn – 1 KV, 4 T-34, 7 BT).


_____________________________


(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 184
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 10/26/2019 6:20:00 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
The new forming cavalry divisions should has reduced TOE (41b Cavalry Division). Atm at least 2nd,53rd,4th(there are many untill August,but I'm not checked each) has TOE 41a Cavalry Division.
Probably there is need to create the additional TOE between 41a and 41b. Because initial versions of "raiding" Cavalry divisions was about 3-3,5k men and had minimal support/rear part.
This new additional TOE about(based on GKO's order on 11 Aug,41):
3277 men total, horses - 3553, rifles - 2826, MG - 36(probably some of them should be AA), LMG - 50, PPSh - 200, 45mm AT-guns - 12, 76mm guns - 12, 82mm mortars - 9, 50mm mortars - 48, trucks - 15 , special trucks/cars - 10.
This new TOE could be from August and current 41b could be moved to December or to January.

_____________________________


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 185
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 11/7/2019 11:29:19 AM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
8th IAK PVO (Baku).

Starts forming on basis of NKO order 19 June 1941 (same order was started forming 6th and 7th IAK's PVO). Forming finished 14 July 1941. The basis of this new formation became air-regiments of 27th and 71st IAD's.
The HQ whole war was located in Baku.
Commander (14 July 1941 – 29 Sep 1942) – Ivan Puntus (colonel, from 1 Sep 1943 GMA).

Same M.D. :

68th IAD.
Probably need to remove from the game data. Looks like this unit was forming in Far East as part of 5th BAK (Long Range Aviation), but forming was not finished and IAD was disbanded in July 1941.

25th SAD.
On start of the war HQ located in Kutaisi.
Missed 18th BAP (Kutaisi) that had SB-2. Nov 1941 was transferred to Leningrad Front.
35th IAP PVO (currently in 27th IAD). Located in Chorokh AF (Batumi), probably whole war located there.

< Message edited by Dreamslayer -- 11/7/2019 1:16:46 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 186
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 11/10/2019 6:44:58 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
50th Rifle Division

Initial location of this unit should be more to west. Currently it starts near Polotsk.
From the war diary(?) of Western Front on 22 June:
"50th RD in the Dunilovichi area on the march from Polotsk to Krevo area."
From Wiki :
On 15 June the division received order from 3rd Army commander "from 18 June to march from Polotsk area and concentrate in the forest 10 km SW of Smorgon". On the march the division was subordinated to herself by command of 13th Army. Received the task "on 24 June together with 5th Tank Division, Vilna(Vilnius) infantry school and 84th NKVD rgt to cover Molodechno from NW at the Danyushevo-Smorgon line. Parts of the division immediately went into battle with enemy forces on the Viliya river, northwest of Molodechno, with battles retreated to Pleshchenitsy.
On the map of Western Front on 22 June:

(marks: 1 – Postavy, 2 – Glubokoe, 3 - Dunilovichi)

_____________________________


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 187
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/4/2019 9:17:54 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
Auto-limitation of maximum TOE for Rifle divisions on T1.

It's a bit an issue, I'll try to explain why. On T1 all Soviet Rifle division getting this limit, an exceptions are only for RD's that has frozen status or RD's of Western M.D. . Maybe this finding is nice for units at border which (potentially) could be involved into border battles so they could not normally execute their mobilization plans. But why is this limitations activates for units that located somewhere in a rear, even for divisions in Vologda, Ivanovo and Kostroma.
For now start setup looks very strange. Very many units right before the German aggression has too large actual TOE (men total and various elements), some of them has 13-14k men.
It's hard to say how many each unit had but units on the border should has larger actual TOE than units in rear areas. E.g. (according to Isaev's “From Dubno to Rostov”) 17 Rifle/Mountain divisions of border 5th,6th,12th,26th Armies had 8-10k each (only 173rd RD had 7177 men) – it's best infantry units of most priority M.D.
Because of this strange limitation and various differences between border/rear units it's impossible to see something like mobilization on T1.

_____________________________


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 188
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/9/2019 8:00:50 AM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
Huge surplus of 12,7 mm AAMG's (DShK) in the game.

TOE of 41a RD has 14 these AAMG's , but it should be only 9 (per 3 in each rifle rgt). Also airbases has these DShK's in tons right from start, hard to say for sure but “airbases” at start of the war had shortage of AA weapons and mostly had only batteries of 7.62 mm quad-AAMG's. Probably there is could be added a new start TOE for airbases that would has only about 12 7.62 mm quad-AAMG's instead of current medium AA guns and DShK's. Later during the war it could be changed.

According to “The combat and numerical strength of the armed forces of the USSR during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. The statistical compilation #1”, by The Institute of Military History / The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, 1994. At start of the war USSR had 2033 DshK's (1878 in RKKA and 155 in VMF(Fleet)).
Currently in the game more than 4100 of these AAMG's and it's only on the part of the USSR's map.
The presence of DShK's in RKKA (total - 1878):
“West” - (Leningrad M.D. - 150, NW Front – 97, Western Front – 98, SW Front – 174, 9 A – 118)
“RGK” - (16A – 33, 20A – 18, 22A – 4, 24A – 8, separate units/formations – 12)
“South” - (Transcaucasus M.D. - 91, Mid-Asian M.D. - 49)
“East” - (Transbaikal M.D. - 103, Far East Front – 696)
“Internal/Rest” - (M.D.s: Arkhangelsk – 4, Moscow – 48, Volga – 25, Orel – 25, Kharkov – 4, North-Caucasus – 53, Ural – 8, Siberian – 10; Central subordination's units – 50).
So “off-map areas” has about 750-850 (plus something from Leningrad and Arkhangelsk M.D.).
I guess actual presence of these AAMG's on the game map should be about 1000-1100, but atm it's 4 times more (about 4100).

_____________________________


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 189
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/9/2019 11:08:06 PM   
56ajax


Posts: 1655
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

Huge surplus of 12,7 mm AAMG's (DShK) in the game.

TOE of 41a RD has 14 these AAMG's , but it should be only 9 (per 3 in each rifle rgt). Also airbases has these DShK's in tons right from start, hard to say for sure but “airbases” at start of the war had shortage of AA weapons and mostly had only batteries of 7.62 mm quad-AAMG's. Probably there is could be added a new start TOE for airbases that would has only about 12 7.62 mm quad-AAMG's instead of current medium AA guns and DShK's. Later during the war it could be changed.

According to “The combat and numerical strength of the armed forces of the USSR during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. The statistical compilation #1”, by The Institute of Military History / The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, 1994. At start of the war USSR had 2033 DshK's (1878 in RKKA and 155 in VMF(Fleet)).
Currently in the game more than 4100 of these AAMG's and it's only on the part of the USSR's map.
The presence of DShK's in RKKA (total - 1878):
“West” - (Leningrad M.D. - 150, NW Front – 97, Western Front – 98, SW Front – 174, 9 A – 118)
“RGK” - (16A – 33, 20A – 18, 22A – 4, 24A – 8, separate units/formations – 12)
“South” - (Transcaucasus M.D. - 91, Mid-Asian M.D. - 49)
“East” - (Transbaikal M.D. - 103, Far East Front – 696)
“Internal/Rest” - (M.D.s: Arkhangelsk – 4, Moscow – 48, Volga – 25, Orel – 25, Kharkov – 4, North-Caucasus – 53, Ural – 8, Siberian – 10; Central subordination's units – 50).
So “off-map areas” has about 750-850 (plus something from Leningrad and Arkhangelsk M.D.).
I guess actual presence of these AAMG's on the game map should be about 1000-1100, but atm it's 4 times more (about 4100).


Just checking Askey, he has 15 in the TOE, 3 in each regiment (9) 2 each in the light and medium art regiments and 1 each in the Chemical Company and AA battalion. (The game probably has 14 as chemical company is modelled as Support)

In terms of actual numbers they were very scarce, many RDs didnt have any at all, and those that did were lucky to have 20% TOE.


_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 190
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/10/2019 2:26:15 AM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
quote:

Just checking Askey, he has 15 in the TOE, 3 in each regiment (9) 2 each in the light and medium art regiments and 1 each in the Chemical Company and AA battalion. (The game probably has 14 as chemical company is modelled as Support)

Probably Askey confused 12,7mm AAMG DShK's(also called "heavy MG's" in various Soviet documents) with 7,62mm quad-AAMG's(also called "complex AAMG's").
From that I've found about AA in initiate Rifle Division TOE:
rifle rgt(x3) - 6x 7,62mm and 3x 12,7mm (total in division - 18 + 9)
sep.AA btn - 1x 7,62mm, 8x 37mm, 4x 76/85mm
artillery rgt - 2x 7,62mm
howitzer rgt - 3x 7,62mm

Sep.chemical company has 1x LMG and 30x flamethrowers.

In the game the initiate Rifle Division TOE has 15x GAZ-AAMG. So in the game all these 7,62mm AAMG's mounted on trucks. But I think it's unrealistic because RKKA had huge shortage of trucks (especially at start).

(remark: instead of "heavy MG's" better to say "large-caliber MG's")

< Message edited by Dreamslayer -- 12/10/2019 4:23:24 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 191
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/10/2019 7:46:00 AM   
Hanny


Posts: 188
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
https://en.topwar.ru/31576-zenitnye-sredstva-protivovozdushnoy-oborony-rkka.html

_____________________________

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 192
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/12/2019 9:14:19 AM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
Surplus of 37mm AA guns (61-K) in the game.

There are currently 2700 61-K AA guns in the game from the start.
According to “The combat and numerical strength of the armed forces of the USSR during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945. The statistical compilation #1”, by The Institute of Military History / The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, 1994. At start of the war USSR had 1258 37mm AA guns (1214 in RKKA and 44 in VMF(Fleet)).

The presence of 61-K AA guns in RKKA (total - 1214):
“West” - (Leningrad M.D. - 127, Baltic M.D. – 116, Western M.D. – 212, Kiev M.D. – 292, Odessa M.D. – 70)
“South” - (Transcaucasus M.D. - 164, Mid-Asian M.D. - 24)
“East” - (Transbaikal M.D. - 48, Far East Front – 32)
“Internal/Rest” - (M.D.s: Arkhangelsk – 4, Moscow – 75, Volga – 5, Orel – 4, Kharkov – 8, North-Caucasus – 25, Ural – 4, Siberian – 4).

The presence of 61-K AA guns in VMF(Fleet) (total – 44):
Baltic Fleet – 18
Black Sea Fleet – 16
Pinsk Military Flotilla – 10

_____________________________


(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 193
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/12/2019 10:40:26 AM   
Hanny


Posts: 188
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
https://en.topwar.ru/31576-zenitnye-sredstva-protivovozdushnoy-oborony-rkka.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_light_heavy_weapons_uk/m1939_61-k_37mm_anti-aircraft_gun_technical_data_sheet_specifications_description_pictures_video.html

First production order in 39 was for 900.
"As of 22 June 1941, there were:-1370 pcs 37-mm. automatic anti-aircraft guns rev.xnumx (1939-K)"

"During the 1941 battle of the year, anti-aircraft guns suffered significant losses - until 1 September 1941, the 841 gun was lost, and in just 1941 a year - 1204 guns. Huge losses were hardly compensated for by production - on 1 January 1942, there was about 1600 37-mm anti-aircraft guns available".

900 produced in 1939. 75 a month.
1940?. ( assuming 40 production went to inventory we have 30 months at 75 a month and total produced of 2250, kinda close to the in game numbers but has them all as in service)
By June 41 in service rises to 1370, so 470 produced in 6 months. 75 a month for 18 months, 6 of them in 41 and 12 in 39. What happened in 1940?, why not another 900?. Were they produced and held as inventory, seems possible.

In 6 months of of combat 1204 of them were lost, leaving 166, and therefore the last 6 months of 41 produced and accepted into service brought that number to 1600, so 1450 produced/accepted into service in last 6 months of 41.
241 a month.

_____________________________

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 194
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/12/2019 11:19:52 AM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
There are not a much info about production of this gun. From what I've found: in 1939 was produced test series - 15 guns. "900" it's a order(plan) for 1940, but actually was produced about 600. Number "1370" I've seen in source of 1974(it's a book with statistical spreadsheets or something),
http://www.soldat.ru/doc/mobilization/mob/chapter2_5.html - in 3rd spreadsheet on this page (try to search "1370").
Order/plan for 1941 was 1700. Production from 1941 was only in factory #4 in Kolomna(Moscow region) that was in July 1941 was evacuated to Krasnoyarsk(Siberia).
For various military equipments there was no stable production before the war.

_____________________________


(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 195
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/12/2019 12:42:49 PM   
Hanny


Posts: 188
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
https://worddisk.com/wiki/37_mm_automatic_air_defense_gun_M1939_(61-K)/

Jan of 38 Artillery factory 8 produced the test pieces, testing for firing in Oct 38, live fire test comparing in 40 compared to Boffers and no difference between the two, so pretty sure its in serial production in 39.

https://en.performancegunworks.com/868-the-spool-is-small-but-the-roads-are-the-soviet-37-mm.html
In 1939, the new Soviet anti-aircraft gun was put into service, having received the official designation - the 37-mm anti-aircraft automatic gun of the 1939 model and the GAU index - 52-P-167. A new automatic anti-aircraft gun was supposed to form the basis of the air defense of army units and subunits of the Red Army.
In the same year, the mass production of the new Soviet anti-aircraft guns began. The main production base was the plant. Kalinin. Later on, during the years of the Great Patriotic War, the serial production of the 37 mm anti-aircraft gun was transferred to Plant No. 4 named after. Voroshilov, where he continued until 1945.

I think your right that there is to many, but i dont have better numbers to replace what others came up with

< Message edited by Hanny -- 12/12/2019 12:47:57 PM >


_____________________________

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 196
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/12/2019 1:09:20 PM   
Hanny


Posts: 188
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

There are not a much info about production of this gun. From what I've found: in 1939 was produced test series - 15 guns. "900" it's a order(plan) for 1940, but actually was produced about 600. Number "1370" I've seen in source of 1974(it's a book with statistical spreadsheets or something),
http://www.soldat.ru/doc/mobilization/mob/chapter2_5.html - in 3rd spreadsheet on this page (try to search "1370").
Order/plan for 1941 was 1700. Production from 1941 was only in factory #4 in Kolomna(Moscow region) that was in July 1941 was evacuated to Krasnoyarsk(Siberia).
For various military equipments there was no stable production before the war.


Table 22 gives the munition plan for 3205 37AA guns, oddly the table 19 before arrive at different number 4177, so they are clearly referring to different plans.

Game has 2700 in June 41, it looks to me like that maybe was sourced from table 15, 2787 37 AA guns.

_____________________________

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 197
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/12/2019 8:03:28 PM   
Hanny


Posts: 188
Joined: 7/5/2011
Status: offline
A.Ivanov "Artillerija SSSR v period Vtoroy Mirovoy voiny" St. Petersburg, 2003:
3,896 Soviet M1939 37mm guns were completed in 1942 increasing to total production to 6,802 by end of year and 19,116 by 45.


From that i get 6,802 by end of 42, remove the 42 production of 3,896 and in 41 you have 2906 for 41 and earlier production.

_____________________________

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 198
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/13/2019 1:32:15 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1655
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline
Askey states approx 1,433 37mm AA guns in the field as of June 41 and another 1400 added by the end of the year. So your figures are reasonably close.

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 199
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/13/2019 4:45:31 AM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
That “The statistical compilation #1" ,1994 contains about 1/3 spreadsheets about artillery. Most detailed spreadsheets about artillery in Military Districts (plus Far East Front) on 1 Jan 41, on 1 June 41, received during June , on start of the war.

37mm guns on 1 Jan – on 1 June – at start of the war - M.D. :

45 –- 115 – 127 – Leningrad
48 –- 116 – 116 – Baltic
44 –- 164 – 212 – Western
52 –- 244 – 292 – Kiev
38 –- 70 -- 70 -- Odessa
128 – 152 – 164 – Transcaucasus
6 –-- 24 --24 –- Mid.-Asian
24 –- 48 -- 48 –- Transbaikal
32 –- 32 -– 32 –- Far East Front
0 --- 4 –-- 4 –-- Arkhangelsk
50 –- 75 –- 75 – Moscow
1 --– 5 –-- 5 –-- Volga
0 --– 4 –-- 4 --- Orel
0 --– 4 –-- 8 --- Kharkov
24 –- 21 –- 25 –- N.Caucasus
0 –-- 4 –-- 4 –-- Ural
0 –-- 4 –-- 4 –-- Siberian

Total on 1 Jan – 492
Total on 1 June – 1086
Total on start of the war - 1214

About VMF(Fleet) only about start of the war – 44.

There is also spreadsheet about arty on central depots , zero of 37mm AA guns on 1 Jun and start of the war.

About pre-war production. It was unstable very often. It was absolutely normal if there was year-order/plan for 1000 units(?), but actual year production was about 20-100.
After start of the war the rates of production was increased significantly.

_____________________________


(in reply to Hanny)
Post #: 200
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/13/2019 5:39:06 AM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
quote:

source of 1974(it's a book with statistical spreadsheets or something)

This book or better to say spreadsheets from this book - "Artillery supply in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-45.", Moscow-Tula, GAU publishing house, 1977. / "Артиллерийское снабжение в Великой Отечественной войне 1941-45 гг.", Москва-Тула, издательство ГАУ, 1977 г. - http://www.soldat.ru/doc/mobilization/mob/
Not sure how actually good it is at this moment because it'a 1974 year...



_____________________________


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 201
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/13/2019 7:45:26 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 6953
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline
I have currently reduced the 37mm Flak in rifle divs so overall we now have 2400. 12.7mm AAMGs have been replaced by 7.62mm quads in rifle divs/Bdes (+ quantity reduced) for an overall of 2300.
Rifle div OBs have also been reduced in AA so just 6x quad AAMG and 4x 37mm, changing to 9x 12.7mm AAMG and 6x 37mm Flak in 1/42
further reductions may follow if I change airbases to just 12x quad and 4x 76mm with an upgrade to current level in 1/42. airbases vurrent hold ~500x 12.7mm AAMG and ~700x 37mm Flak
production may be another issue, all the reductions do not help if these elements get immediate massive production once back in the OBs.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 202
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/17/2019 2:15:19 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss
production may be another issue, all the reductions do not help if these elements get immediate massive production once back in the OBs.

That's why and not only would be nice to create factories for elements like artillery and some others. We can get an adequate production rates, more correct factory placement etc.

_____________________________


(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 203
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/21/2019 6:17:36 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
An “army” AA guns of RKKA and VMF on start of the war.

Based on that “The statistical compilation #1".
Notes about spreadsheet – (VMF – Fleet; M.D.'s : L – Leningrad, B – Baltic, W- Western, K – Kiev, Od – Odessa, TC – Trans-Caucasus, MA – Mid.-Asian, TB – Trans-Baikal, FE – Far East Front, A – Arkhangelsk, M – Moscow, V – Volga, Or – Orel, Kh – Kharkov, NC – North-Caucasus, U – Ural, S – Siberian)
Also need keep in mind that some formations during June 1941 was on the move to west from their “normal” locations. In the game it's most of “white”-formations like 22nd Army (from Ural M.D.). But in this spreadsheet they still counts as part of “ex”-M.D.'s.



Separately about an “army” AA guns of VMF (it's data on 1 July 1941):
Northern Fleet – 72x 76mm, 4x 85mm
Baltic Fleet – 18x 37mm, 324x 76mm, 25x 85mm
Black Sea Fleet – 16x 37mm, 160x 76mm, 20x 85mm
Pinsk Military Flotilla – 10x 37mm
Pacific Fleet – 278x 76mm, 17x 85mm
Amur Military Flotilla – 28x 76mm

85mm AA gun in the game named “KS-12”. Perhaps more correct would be “52-K”.
The gun was developed by design department of the Kalinin's Factory #8 (Kaliningrad, Moscow region).
The factory index “KS-12” got impoved version of this gun that was developed in Sverdlovsk where was evacuated the Kalinin's Factory #8. “KS” = Kalinin's Sverdlovsk. Production of KS-12 started in February 1944.

I'm also surprised why is some AA battalions now has 15 medium guns instead of 12.

_____________________________


(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 204
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/21/2019 10:23:21 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 6953
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline
changed the 85mm to 52-K, also renamed several other guns.
Later (1943) AA units got 16 instead of 12 heavy guns.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 205
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/22/2019 2:23:50 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss
Later (1943) AA units got 16 instead of 12 heavy guns.

Yes, perhaps later it was changed. But in the game at start some AA battalions has 15 medium guns while their TOE has only 12.

_____________________________


(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 206
RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues - 12/23/2019 1:18:29 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 6953
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline
may need to rebuild them too if there are too many of them in oversized state.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 207
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 5 6 [7]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Scenario Design and Modding >> RE: Soviet Leaders/OOB Issues Page: <<   < prev  3 4 5 6 [7]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.176