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Mediterranean Tsunami - Russian side - 11/26/2017 6:46:40 AM   
AlexGGGG

 

Posts: 685
Joined: 9/25/2014
Status: offline
Doctrine changes from default

EMCON
Radars and OECM to ACTIVE, and enforce on all units.

General doctrine
Ignore plotted course to YES
Kinematic range to manual only
Ignore EMCON while under attack to NO (this is important – if I decide some units should not radiate and thus deny HARM targeting, I don’t want them to go on air against orders).

WRA changes
SA-21a Growler, max range 40 NM
SA-21b Growler, max range 40 NM
SA-22 Greyhound, Do not use against unknown contact type, do not use against aircraft (in effect, fire against missiles only).

Delete all predefined missions, delete all reference points, all aircraft RTB immediately

Aircraft Loadouts: Su-34 to AAW loadout, and enable quick turnaround wherever possible

Defense position: move all Shiklas close to airbase, so that they are just little west of the airbase.
Move Pantsir/Greyhound to the airbase, dead center.
Move all ships close to shore close to the airbase. Make sure Tarantula is on the seaward side, and heavy ships are closer inshore.
All Shilkas have their radars OFF, which is important. We will later need them to deal with TLAMs.
And now I wait.

The final positions are shown in the image.

At 21:15 to go, launch one Su-30s to provide ground radar coverage so that subs know where to go and when to engage. Direct it to orbit above Homs.

At 20:55 to go, detected aircraft taking off the carrier, for SEAD strike. Take note which one skunk is the actual carrier.

At 20:47 to go, strike is inbound.

Immediately once HARMs are dealt with, I turn on Shilka radars.

After the end of strike, death toll as follows

SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x E-2D Advanced Hawkeye <-- don’t know how this happened
1x EA-18G Growler
4x F/A-18C Hornet
1x F/A-18E Super Hornet

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
4x AGM-88C HARM <-- no hits hehe
16x AGM-88E AARGM <--- No hits hehe
2x AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4 <-- fired against my Su-30 airborne radar
3x AN/ALE-50 [RT-1646/ALE]
3x AN/ALE-55 FOTD
3x AN/SSQ-53F DIFAR
7x AN/SSQ-62E DICASS
16x GBU-38(V)2/B JDAM [Mk82] <-- Killed by Shilkas mostly
56x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
11x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Dual Spectral]
36x GEN-X [RT-1489/ALE] Active Expendable Decoy
8x RGM-109C Tomahawk Blk III TLAM-C <-- Still in flight
56x RGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM <-- Still in flight

SIDE: Russia
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
NONE!!!

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
12x 23mm ZSU-23-4 Shilka Burst [50 rnds]
15x 30mm 2A38M Burst [50 rnds]
3x AK-130 130mm/54 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds]
38x AK-176 76mm/60 HE Burst [2 rnds]
7x AK-630M 30mm/65 Gatling Burst [400 rnds]
1x RGB-16MK [Search, Passive Omni]
3x SA-16 Gimlet [9M313]
32x SA-21b Growler [40N6]
24x SA-22 Greyhound [57E6]
8x SA-N-10 Gimlet [9M313]
54x SA-N-4a Gecko [9M33]
36x SA-N-4b Gecko [9M33M3]
64x SA-N-6a Grumble [5R55RM]

At 20:21 to go, sub (Alrosa) still lies in wait for the carrier, at max depth and speed 0, pretty close to an active buoy but still no torpedoes inbound. Strike flight is returning to carrier, and I rearrange ships slightly to better match my expectations about incoming TLAMs. S-400 is reloading with 25 minutes to go.

At 20:19 to go, detected first TLAMs at about 30 NM

At 20:11 to go, first wave of TLAMs repelled entirely by guns (!). Shilkas (mostly) and naval guns (to lesser extent).

At 20:06 to go, my sub sank the carrier by firing all 16 torpedoes at it. Sub is now lying deep with 60% damage. Make sure to uncheck Automatic Salvo Cancellation, because it interferes with shooting all fish at a single target.

At 20:05 second wave of TLAMs inbound. S-400 still not ready with 9 minutes to reload. Shilkas still handle all inbounds no problem. Also ships are now positioned much better to repel the strike.

At 19:57 to go, Shilkas are running out of ammo, the only one still active with 86 rounds remaining, S-400 needs two more minutes to reload. SA-22 is also out of ammo.

At 19:55 several hits on the airbase. At the same time, S-400 reloaded and engaging.

At 19:50 to go still detecting some TLAMs inbound. Carp, I though that’s the end of them already. S-400 engaging with great effect but only 9 rounds remaining.

Looks like TLAMs finally ran out at 19:45 to go. Death toll at this point as follows

SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x C-2A(R) Greyhound
1x CVN 69 Dwight D. Eisenhower [Nimitz Class]
5x E-2D Advanced Hawkeye
4x EA-18G Growler
8x F/A-18C Hornet
17x F/A-18E Super Hornet
10x F/A-18F Super Hornet
5x MH-60R Seahawk
8x MH-60S Knighthawk

SIDE: Russia
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Bunker (Comm Center)
7x Su-24M2 Fencer D <-- all on the ground
4x Su-25SM Frogfoot A <-- all on the ground
3x Su-30SM Flanker G <-- all on the ground

And I’m not sure what to do, should I sortie the ships for gun battle or what? Because my ASM missiles are ineffective and I know that, and aircraft has no chance whatsoever against CVBG escorts. Decided to launch another Su-30 airborne radar and lo and behold spotted ships still continuing towards the shore. Start to set up another sub for another ambush.

At 19:06 to go, someone finished my damaged sub.
At 18:15 to go, fired 4 torpedoes at USS Gettysburg, and sunk it.
At 17:55, fired 4 torpedoes at USS Bulkeley but failed to sink it. Fired four more and its’ gone.
As there are no more torpedoes, sub part of the battle is done and ships sortie to try and kill what remains.

Remaining enemy ships are 1x Supply, 1x Arleigh Burke, and 1x Tico. I will try missiles first, then guns. Their Harpoons may be a problem though. Still by that time only launched two aircraft as spotters.

At 17:15 to go, firing ASMs from ships, which all fail to penetrate SAM screen. Now closing in for gunnery.
Ar 14:50 to go, gun enagagment begins, and also some goblin contact. Does not look a sub, fire six torpedoes at it just in case. Turns out it was biologics hehe.

Interestingly enemy does not fire back with guns, so I just drift around and kill them slowly.

Too bad there are no reloads in Tartus.

At 13:00 to go, launching aircraft to attack remaining ships.

At 10:00 to go, only enemy ship remaining is a supply ship, absolutely no ammo for naval guns and I still have time for one sortie with aircraft.

At 6:08 to go, finished the supply ship. Final death toll as follows
Score 10030 Triumph

SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x C-2A(R) Greyhound
1x CG 56 San Jacinto [Ticonderoga Baseline 3, VLS]
1x CG 59 Princeton [Ticonderoga Baseline 3, VLS]
1x CVN 69 Dwight D. Eisenhower [Nimitz Class]
1x DDG 81 Winston S. Churchill [Arleigh Burke Flight IIA]
1x DDG 85 McCampbell [Arleigh Burke Flight IIA]
5x E-2D Advanced Hawkeye
4x EA-18G Growler
8x F/A-18C Hornet
17x F/A-18E Super Hornet
11x F/A-18F Super Hornet
17x MH-60R Seahawk
8x MH-60S Knighthawk
1x T-AOE 6 Supply


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
4x AGM-88C HARM
16x AGM-88E AARGM
2x AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4
3x AN/ALE-50 [RT-1646/ALE]
3x AN/ALE-55 FOTD
5x AN/SLQ-25A Nixie
4x AN/SSQ-53F DIFAR
8x AN/SSQ-62E DICASS
4x Anti-torpedo Torpedo [Countermeasure Anti-Torpedo]
16x GBU-38(V)2/B JDAM [Mk82]
65x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
11x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Dual Spectral]
36x GEN-X [RT-1489/ALE] Active Expendable Decoy
12x Meteor
2x Mk48 Mod 7 ADCAP CBASS
8x RGM-109C Tomahawk Blk III TLAM-C
120x RGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
24x RIM-162A ESSM
47x RIM-174A ERAM SM-6MR Blk I


SIDE: Russia
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Bunker (Comm Center)
1x PL-877V Kilo [Paltus]
7x Su-24M2 Fencer D
4x Su-25SM Frogfoot A
4x Su-30SM Flanker G
1x Su-34 Fullback

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
362x 23mm ZSU-23-4 Shilka Burst [50 rnds]
56x 30mm 2A38M Burst [50 rnds]
5x 30mm Gsh-30-1 Burst [30 rnds]
28x 53-65K WH
140x AK-130 130mm/54 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds]
110x AK-130 130mm/54 Twin HE Burst [2 rnds]
384x AK-176 76mm/60 Frag Burst [2 rnds]
1064x AK-176 76mm/60 HE Burst [2 rnds]
56x AK-630M 30mm/65 Gatling Burst [400 rnds]
10x AS-10 Karen [Kh-25L]
8x AS-10 Karen [Kh-25ML]
4x AS-14 Kedge [Kh-29L]
4x AS-14 Kedge [Kh-29T]
12x Generic Acoustic Decoy
5x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
1x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
1x RGB-16MK [Search, Passive Omni]
3x SA-16 Gimlet [9M313]
64x SA-21b Growler [40N6]
24x SA-22 Greyhound [57E6]
8x SA-N-10 Gimlet [9M313]
54x SA-N-4a Gecko [9M33]
36x SA-N-4b Gecko [9M33M3]
64x SA-N-6a Grumble [5R55RM]
4x SET-65K
3x SET-65M Enot-2 [NATO ET-80A[76]]
16x SS-N-12 Sandbox Mod 2 [P-1000]
4x SS-N-14 Silex [85RU, Dual-Role, UMGT-1 Torpedo + 185kg Unitary]
8x SS-N-22M Sunburn [P-270 Moskit]
6x SS-N-9 Siren [P-120 Malakhit]



Lessons learned

1. Radar-controlled antiaircraft guns are very good against TLAMs and JDAMs.

2. TLAM strike planner, which sends missiles to the target each by different route is not good. Each missile has different flight time, and therefore the strike arrives to their target piecemeal, and no saturation of air defense occurs. If I had couple more Shilkas, the airbase would have survived intact. If TLAMs were arriving all at the same time, I don’t think I could have handled it.






< Message edited by AlexGGGG -- 11/26/2017 6:50:36 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Mediterranean Tsunami - Russian side - 11/26/2017 6:51:16 AM   
AlexGGGG

 

Posts: 685
Joined: 9/25/2014
Status: offline
Map of defense position






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by AlexGGGG -- 11/26/2017 6:52:24 AM >

(in reply to AlexGGGG)
Post #: 2
RE: Mediterranean Tsunami - Russian side - 11/26/2017 8:41:30 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 1191
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

General doctrine
Ignore plotted course to YES
Kinematic range to manual only
Ignore EMCON while under attack to NO (this is important – if I decide some units should not radiate and thus deny HARM targeting, I don’t want them to go on air against orders).


Will make those changes to the Russians for the update. Thanks.

quote:

Defense position: move all Shiklas close to airbase, so that they are just little west of the airbase.
Move Pantsir/Greyhound to the airbase, dead center.
Move all ships close to shore close to the airbase. Make sure Tarantula is on the seaward side, and heavy ships are closer inshore.
All Shilkas have their radars OFF, which is important. We will later need them to deal with TLAMs.
And now I wait.


So you're willing to loose the Tartus Naval Facility to protect the Khmeinem Air Base? I wonder if your real world counterpart would be willing to make that trade off? When I set things up I try to think what would a real world commander's political and military restrictions be and, having been in Beirut, I saw how the political issues can tie a commander's hands. Will have to make sure the initial strikes includes Tartus in the Tweak and will increase the points for damage to Tartus so it can't be uncovered without real pain being realized for the Russians. I thought I did include it in the initial NATO strike package but I did some tweaking and may have dropped it from the target list.

quote:

1x E-2D Advanced Hawkeye <-- don’t know how this happened


My guess an - 8x SA-N-10 Gimlet [9M313]

quote:

Make sure to uncheck Automatic Salvo Cancellation, because it interferes with shooting all fish at a single target.


This is a new one to me, admittedly I'm still learning a lot about the game. I'll have to check this out.

quote:

At 6:08 to go, finished the supply ship. Final death toll as follows
Score 10030 Triumph


See I told you the Russians could win big!

I'm not going to tweak up with as many Growler missiles as I thought before but am going to increase the value of the Tartus Naval facility to avoid people moving its defenses to the airbase. Think about it, Putin would probably have the commander who lost that naval facility and it's prestige quietly shot!

quote:

Interestingly enemy does not fire back with guns, so I just drift around and kill them slowly.


I encountered this as well in one play test and raided the CVBG/CSG with the Moskva and Ladny savaging the Burke's????? Couldn't figure out why they just sat there or why the TF didn't hit them with Harpoons?

Thanks for the AAR, I'm learning two things...

1. Command players are much more willing than other games to tweak the designer's positions and intent.
2. There are just sooooooo many nuances that you will never cover everything so at some point yuo just have to call it finished and move on.

Thanks!

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 11/26/2017 9:57:14 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to AlexGGGG)
Post #: 3
RE: Mediterranean Tsunami - Russian side - 11/26/2017 8:54:48 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 1191
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
Based on this I think I am going to keep the SA-400 an 8 TEL system but with more missiles in the magazines. I had tweaked up to a 12 TEL but they may make the defense too strong. Also like I said before been trying to find some open source Intel on what they may have in Syria and it's mute on 8 or 12 TEL. My thoughts are an 8 TEL system is easier to transport and more likely to be deployed but that's just speculation on my part.

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to AlexGGGG)
Post #: 4
RE: Mediterranean Tsunami - Russian side - 11/27/2017 3:45:06 AM   
AlexGGGG

 

Posts: 685
Joined: 9/25/2014
Status: offline
quote:

So you're willing to loose the Tartus Naval Facility to protect the Khmeinem Air Base? I wonder if your real world counterpart would be willing to make that trade off?


I was playing like a third time, and I knew by then that I do not have resources to protect both.
Besides, my real world counterpart whould have had some munitions in Tartus to reload ships with. As it is, Tartus is pretty useless. Also, NATO never ever attacks Tartus, not sure if it is intentional or a bug.

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 5
RE: Mediterranean Tsunami - Russian side - 11/27/2017 2:03:43 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 1191
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
THANK YOU! This is great stuff! I'm actually learning as much about the Command Community as I am about the game! In some game's they are designed to re-deploy units, Flashpoint Germany for example. I knew from the get go there when designing the scenarios that people would be moving the units and that was the way you were supposed to design. Other games, like Tiller's, they are fixed and not too many people are going to move things around because the Editor is a separate program.

Here, and it makes great sense given the nature of the game, people are much more willing to go in and shift things around. SOOOOOOO it is incumbent on me as the designer to provide reasons not to do so. So it was my bad in not having Tartus as the primary NATO target and I concentrated too much on removing Khmeinin AFB to get to it.

If you like would you please play these tweaks on either or both sides????? Tartus is now worth the lion share of NATO VPs with the docks now worth 1,000 points each (4,000 total) and other base facilities worth 500 points each. Also the NATO A/I will now go after it in their strikes. BUT NATO now needs to score 9,000+ points to achieve a Triumph! So Tartus is now the main target and Khmeinin AFB is there to defend it.

Al

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 11/27/2017 4:49:01 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to AlexGGGG)
Post #: 6
RE: Mediterranean Tsunami - Russian side - 11/27/2017 4:48:47 PM   
BeirutDude


Posts: 1191
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline
Take three, Don't know why the Russians attacked the IDF. Reset all the missions to Tight. Seems like there are too many places something can be set to a freer setting

Withdrawn, until/IF, I can figure it out!

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 11/27/2017 5:09:14 PM >


_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

I was Navy, but Assigned TAD to the 24th MAU Hq in Beirut. By far the finest period of my service!

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 7
RE: Mediterranean Tsunami - Russian side - 11/27/2017 6:22:09 PM   
Tailhook

 

Posts: 275
Joined: 1/18/2015
Status: offline
You could also make a locked no navigation zone for ground units around Tartus. Say that suspected rebels or something means it's unsafe to reposition forces right now.

Tartus should be worth more, it's Russia's only foreign naval port, and infrastructure wise much harder to replace.

(in reply to BeirutDude)
Post #: 8
RE: Mediterranean Tsunami - Russian side - 11/28/2017 2:15:17 PM   
AlexGGGG

 

Posts: 685
Joined: 9/25/2014
Status: offline
Tailhook,

If you have (suspected) rebel units on the ground, that's easy to implement by putting (or not, by probability based event) actual rebel units on the ground. This way I can still try to pass through them should I so wish. For example I may try naval gun support against them. Also, I generally consider no-nav zones not cool; they are fairly artificial. If they are used on AI side to assist AI, that's OK. But on the human side, not quite kosher.

(in reply to Tailhook)
Post #: 9
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