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What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 4:51:23 PM   
jzardos


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Maybe it's just the scenario, Directive 21, but why does each div have it's own HQ unit? Seems like a ton of ugly mirco-management just moving these div HQ units around. Have corps and army HQs is just find for a scenario of that scale. I just would keep the div HQs with the div?
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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 4:53:44 PM   
Meyer1

 

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They provide a supply boost among other things, they are very useful. Don`t lose them

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 4:59:00 PM   
Meyer1

 

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quote:

HQ Bias Effects The level of resupply possible for a unit increases by 50% if a cooperative Headquarters unit is located with or adjacent to a unit. See Cooperative Units (8.6.1). If a Headquarters unit assigned to a Formation is destroyed, or if any assigned Support squads have been eliminated, the Formation’s Supply Distribution Efficiency is reduced. You should protect your Headquarters units to avoid these serious disruptions to unit resupply.


Also HQ units facilitate to disengage units that are in contact with the enemy.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 5:42:33 PM   
jzardos


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So I have to micro-manage moving these all over the screen? Seems like too much for a div HQ to have to deal with.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 5:44:06 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Seems like a ton of ugly mirco-management just moving these div HQ units around.

Seems like you are just learning, grasshopper, lol.

Seriously, in addition to the very important previous points indicated by Meyer1, the HQ's also house the divisional artillery.

And yes, each scenario may be different.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 5:45:31 PM   
Meyer1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653


Seriously, in addition to the very important previous points indicated by Meyer1, the HQ's also house the divisional artillery.




Another reason to not lose them

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 5:49:52 PM   
sPzAbt653


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If you are interested in page after page of D21 design stuff, see here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2594404&mpage=1&key=

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 6:18:36 PM   
Moltke71


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Isn't all this in the manual? (Rhetorical question - I know it is.) Why don't people RTFM anymore?

BTW, HQs also help with communication and electronic warfare.

< Message edited by Moltke71 -- 11/19/2017 7:16:26 PM >


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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 6:22:08 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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From an eatlier post (TOAW III, but it still applies to IV):

Two types of Headquarters Icons are represented in TOAW - one is represented with a checkered box and the other by "HQ" (as shown on page 41 in the manual).

The Checkered HQ is typically used to represent higher headquarters - Corps HQ, Army HQ, Army Group and Front Headquarters. They may or may not have units directly subordinate to them, which will show in their Formation Report. In most cases the units assigned to them will be support units (artillery, various engineers).

The standard HQ icon, as designated by "HQ", is most frequently assigned to division and brigade level formations. Units of a division are either directly subordinate to their Division HQ or modelled to demonstrate specific deployment doctrines, advantages or limitations - reflecing in Formation Support Levels (Internal, Army, Force or Free).

Both types of Headquarters may serve several functions:
1. All HQ's provide a supply bonus to adjacent friendly units with which it cooperates (per formation support levels). If Support Squads are included in its TO&E (Unit Report) - it's effectiveness in supply distribution is measured according to the number of Support Squads it has in relation to what it is authorized to have.
2. Frequently, HQ's will include Command Groups in their TO&E. In these cases, HQ's also serve a Command & Control function. HQ's that are attacked and lose its command groups may be force its entire formation into reorganization - effective in the next turn.
3. Frequently, HQ's will include artillery in their Unit Report. In such cases, HQ's serve the same role as a unit with the artillery icon - providing combat support to cooperating units within the range of its artillery. It is useful to examine the types of artillery present as the range of each type of artillery may vary.
4. HQ's also frequently include engineering assets. In most cases, the engineering ability of a HQ will be less than a regular engineer unit, owing to number of assigned engineer squads. Railroad repair and ferry engineers may be present further expanding their engineering capabilities. Where present, and where really needed, HQ's can apply their abilities to build bridges or use its ferry engineering ability to help units cross a river - reducing movement costs.
5. HQ's may include military police squads. These help reduce the costs of movement of units through overstacked hexes.

In addition to these possibilities, HQ's have "Rear Guard ability". Units moving out of a hex within an enemy Zone of Control (i.e. adjacent to an enemy unit) may suffer a "disengagement attack". However, you can use a HQ to move into the hex you want to evacuate, move the first unit out and follow it with the HQ, and both units will avoid the disengagement penalty. The important note on this is to ensure that a) the HQ has the movement points needed to get back to a safe area, and b) that the HQ is the last unit to evacuate a hex and that it moves directly into a hex with a friendly unit.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 6:22:49 PM   
jzardos


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yes, slugging through the manual. Sorry if question answers are in there. I'll play before I give my opinion of the HQs for Divs.

thanks again

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 6:27:08 PM   
Meyer1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltke71

Isn't all this in the manual? (Rhetorical question - I know it is.) Why don't people RTFM anymore?

BTW, HQs also help with communication and electronic warfare?

I don't mind the questions, as long as doesn't contain robbery accusations

But you are right, would be easier if guys at least try a search in the manual first.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 6:27:45 PM   
Meyer1

 

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Thanks Klink, great post.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 6:30:16 PM   
Tamas

 

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It is worth noting that Directive 21 is near the top end of complexity and detail among the scenarios. You won't find this density of HQ units in most other ones.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 6:39:49 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

HQ's have "Rear Guard ability".

This is worth repeating, because while the other HQ attributes are important in this scenario, if you are like me and also enjoy the 43-45 defensive battles that the Axis have to wage, retreating and forming a line further back is impossible without Rear Guard ability.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 6:42:36 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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Be aware that if an HQ is destroyed (or if all the "Command" squads it contains are destroyed) then the chance the Formation will go into Combat Reorganization is doubled. (It's Formation Proficiency is halved).

Similarly, if an HQ is destroyed (or if any the "Supply" squads it contains are destroyed) then the Formation's Supply Distribution Efficiency is reduced.

So, protect your HQs.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 7:40:50 PM   
KGrob

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltke71

Isn't all this in the manual? (Rhetorical question - I know it is.) Why don't people RTFM anymore?

BTW, HQs also help with communication and electronic warfare.


Most people buy the game for the fun of playing it...they want to play the game. They typically scan the manual for major points and then they play a bit, read an important part in the manual, play some more, play, read, rinse, repeat.

Plus, especially for newer players, it's difficult to retain everything they read. And like most manuals, it's not always easy to find what you are looking for and it's not always super clear how what you read applies in the game.

Thus...lots of questions.

Give the new guys a break...help them out when possible...give them encouragement (and, there is nothing wrong with POLITELY directing them to the manual if it is an obvious point). They'll tell their friends about their POSITIVE experiences with the game and maybe their friends will buy a copy too. The more people that buy the game, the more support we get, the more games we get...and the better the games get.



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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 8:21:17 PM   
Phoenix100

 

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You could try learning how to use Elmer to reduce micromanagement. That's what I'm doing, and finding it fun, so far.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 10:09:13 PM   
thewood1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KGrob


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltke71

Isn't all this in the manual? (Rhetorical question - I know it is.) Why don't people RTFM anymore?

BTW, HQs also help with communication and electronic warfare.


Most people buy the game for the fun of playing it...they want to play the game. They typically scan the manual for major points and then they play a bit, read an important part in the manual, play some more, play, read, rinse, repeat.

Plus, especially for newer players, it's difficult to retain everything they read. And like most manuals, it's not always easy to find what you are looking for and it's not always super clear how what you read applies in the game.

Thus...lots of questions.

Give the new guys a break...help them out when possible...give them encouragement (and, there is nothing wrong with POLITELY directing them to the manual if it is an obvious point). They'll tell their friends about their POSITIVE experiences with the game and maybe their friends will buy a copy too. The more people that buy the game, the more support we get, the more games we get...and the better the games get.





I think you missed the point of a couple of the responses. No one is saying don't ask questions. In fact several posters are explicit about it. But there are a few common sense things new players can do...

1) Use the search capability of the manual PDF. It works really well.
2) Don't come in with an attitude of complaining about the game if you are asking a question. Let people answer the question and figure out what you want to do before passing judgement
3) Don't start with the most complex scenario that you can possibly find.

(in reply to KGrob)
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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/19/2017 10:40:42 PM   
Moltke71


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KGrob


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltke71

Isn't all this in the manual? (Rhetorical question - I know it is.) Why don't people RTFM anymore?

BTW, HQs also help with communication and electronic warfare.


Most people buy the game for the fun of playing it...they want to play the game. They typically scan the manual for major points and then they play a bit, read an important part in the manual, play some more, play, read, rinse, repeat.

Plus, especially for newer players, it's difficult to retain everything they read. And like most manuals, it's not always easy to find what you are looking for and it's not always super clear how what you read applies in the game.

Thus...lots of questions.

Give the new guys a break...help them out when possible...give them encouragement (and, there is nothing wrong with POLITELY directing them to the manual if it is an obvious point). They'll tell their friends about their POSITIVE experiences with the game and maybe their friends will buy a copy too. The more people that buy the game, the more support we get, the more games we get...and the better the games get.





I'll help those who don't rant and those who show that they tried to use the docs. I would advise new players to wait for reviews and even read about TOAW 3 before they buy to grasp how complex the system can be.


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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/20/2017 5:09:20 AM   
jzardos


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Thanks for all help mates. So based on ...

quote:

This is worth repeating, because while the other HQ attributes are important in this scenario, if you are like me and also enjoy the 43-45 defensive battles that the Axis have to wage, retreating and forming a line further back is impossible without Rear Guard ability.


In the Directive 21 scenario I should try and keep my Div HQs just behind their child unit(s), not stacked with them. I have read about HQ ranges yet, so I'm not sure what the best positioning of div, corp, army, OKH HQs are in this TOAW scenario. Any help here is much appreciated.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/20/2017 5:43:13 AM   
larryfulkerson


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I like to keep the HQ's that have arty in range, but those HQ's that
don't have any arty I like to have behind the child. In range of the
child but not on the front lines. I'll post a picture to show you
what I mean.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/20/2017 7:41:04 AM   
jzardos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I like to keep the HQ's that have arty in range, but those HQ's that
don't have any arty I like to have behind the child. In range of the
child but not on the front lines. I'll post a picture to show you
what I mean.


Ok thanks, I'm still not sure of the HQ type ranges, but hope to read up on that soon.

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Post #: 22
RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/20/2017 9:55:55 AM   
IainF

 

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Jzardos - open the unit info for the HQ, look for the Artillery range in hexes contained therein. Job done. (from memory usually 2 hexes?).

Another way to do it is to click on the HQ unit and then hover over enemy units that are 2 or 3 hexes away, if the cursor turns into the 'attack' icon thing then you can hit it with the guns.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/20/2017 10:08:02 AM   
demyansk


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Thanks guys for the suggestions with this game. I am going to need help with the larger scenarios so I can delegate some sections to the computer. Therefore, I don't have to manage everything.

The best tutorial in a game is the one from Eugen called Steel Divisions Normandy. If you get this game, it has a seven part tutorial and guides you through each step. Very helpful.

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/20/2017 10:21:04 AM   
sPzAbt653


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In addition to what IanF said above, the Range for Ranged Units [that is, units that have a range, lol] can be seen in the screen shot below. This displays either when a unit is selected, or when a unit is moused over.

New UI on left, Classic UI on right.




Attachment (1)

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RE: What to do with HQ units - 11/20/2017 2:28:26 PM   
Meyer1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1




3) Don't start with the most complex scenario that you can possibly find.



Yeah starting with scenarios with more than 700 counters may be not the best ideas for newbies

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Post #: 26
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