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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 9:06:19 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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So I call up the OOB by hitting the 'o' key and I locate the engineer unit from the next formation and select it.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 9:10:26 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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The engineer from the second consequtive formation can't make it into the damaged bridge hex either but I found out by
mousing around that I COULD span a river for the units to make it across at that spot instead of the bridge. Unless
it's going to take longer to reach their destination by taking the detour. I's an experience call.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 9:15:47 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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There were only the two formations close by so having spaned the river at some point I went back to the first
formation and move it's units. I killed that tiny Soviet unit while I was at it.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 9:21:31 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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And moving units in OOB order I see I've come to a second formation so I need to assign missions to it now.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 9:25:05 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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And hitting 'f' to get into the formation report I see that the formation has two units that are yellow so I think I
need to go look at those guys to see if they need some bedrest or not.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 9:31:46 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I like for my units to have 50% readiness and both those units have less than that so I'm going to have to rest them until
they are better. So I'll park the HQ next to them in some kind of relatively better supply area and let them rest.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 10:16:21 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's a formation that has very few units in it.
In fact it's just thls HQ unit and a construction
unit. So one of the things I like to do is fly
some airborne unit from one end of the front lines
to the other so that the unit passes through most
of the Axis fighter sectors so that if it ever
gets intercepted by enemy fighters, my fighers will
sortie and attack the enemy fighers, saving my
airborne unit and shooting down some enemy fighers.
As long as the airborne unit is typically a throw-away
unit it's a win-win. But I don't want to risk some
command groups or support squads so I needed to take a
look at the HQ unit to check it out and I found no
command groups or support squads so that means this unit
will do nicely for bait. I need to move it to the nearest
airport and wait until next turn to fly it.

The important point is that you must fly where your fighters
are so that they can intercept the intercepters. Also, try
to fly it when it's green to yellow and never below so that
it will tend to survive the flight. You can fly a lot of
these guys all over the front to get a lot of Soviet fighters
shot down.

EDIT: And the reason I choose to fly this guy is because it's
got an airborne operations capability and leg infantry don't.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 12/5/2017 10:17:36 AM >


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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 11:15:35 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's the supply situation in the Kiev area right now. At the tip of the spear the supply level is too low and far in
the rear it's fine and there's a drop off of the supply levels in between. It's been working out so far but I may have
to slow down the operational tempo to allow the rails to catch up to the fighting.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 2:23:05 PM   
tverse

 

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Larry thanks for these AAR/workshops. Both B41 and D-21 are helpful.

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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 2:27:08 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tverse
Larry thanks for these AAR/workshops. Both B41 and D-21 are helpful.

You're quite welcome. If you really appreciate it I could use your help ( and the
rest of you too ) with ideas. I'm running out of original ideas to write about
so a brief statement from you ( all of you ) about what your questions are and
what else could I write about....in other words what are you mainly interested
in that I haven't covered already. I've been writing about the situations that
come up in my gameplay and are note worthy but I'm mostly an orthodox player and
don't always do risky, extreme things that you guys might like to see.

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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 5:04:10 PM   
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Glad you asked. I am struggling with the various aircraft and what is the best use for them I.e combat support, interdiction, air support, etc. what numbers do you look at to determine there optimal use. Especially the fighter bomber categories. Also when you have the “air assist on” it will have airfield attack but when I do manual I get only an attack against aircraft at the field....is there a difference or are the results the same. It seems the same to me.

I guess I’m looking for a workshop on air units , types, actions, and activity related to there use.

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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 7:07:46 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tverse
Glad you asked. I am struggling with the various aircraft and what is the best use for them I.e combat support, interdiction, air support, etc.

Take a look under the hood for that equipment and find out what the numbers are for the different
types of targets. Some models of aircraft are better at AS than CS and some are good at INT and
not so much AS and some are okie dokie at Sea Int ( high anti-ship value ). There's more info on
the image below.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tverse
What numbers do you look at to determine there optimal use. Especially the fighter bomber categories.

The AP number is anti-personnal and the AT value is anti-tank so those fighter bombers that are
especially good at AT numbers are rare. The Ju-87 comes to mind with a high AT value and the
anti-ship value is like 240 or something like that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tverse
Also when you have the “air assist on” it will have airfield attack but when I do manual I get only an attack against aircraft at the field....is there a difference or are the results the same. It seems the same to me.

I'm not sure I understand your question but it sounds like it's the same thing to me.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 12/5/2017 7:08:31 PM >


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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 7:12:29 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's the NW corner of the front lines around Pskov right now. I've been fighting for the city for a while now and
the Panzers are red they are so tired. The supply levels in this area are not just low they're missing in action. Not
much more can be done with the troops on hand. Fresh divisions are needed for this task.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 9:07:24 PM   
sanderz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: tverse
Larry thanks for these AAR/workshops. Both B41 and D-21 are helpful.

You're quite welcome. If you really appreciate it I could use your help ( and the
rest of you too ) with ideas. I'm running out of original ideas to write about
so a brief statement from you ( all of you ) about what your questions are and
what else could I write about....in other words what are you mainly interested
in that I haven't covered already. I've been writing about the situations that
come up in my gameplay and are note worthy but I'm mostly an orthodox player and
don't always do risky, extreme things that you guys might like to see.



Any chance you can cover how to do this...

The Programmed Opponent (PO): Elmer, the game PO puts up a decent fight
particularly through Spring 1942. If playing against the PO, human players are
strongly advised to help Elmer every few turns
to reorganize armies, defend major
cities and move air units closer to the front. The player should modify PO objectives
as the game progresses.
These actions will greatly help “Elmer” to provide an
interesting challenge. The PO uses multiple tracks for both sides

thanks

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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/5/2017 9:15:30 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

Any chance you can cover how to do this...

The Programmed Opponent (PO): Elmer, the game PO puts up a decent fight
particularly through Spring 1942. If playing against the PO, human players are
strongly advised to help Elmer every few turns to reorganize armies, defend major
cities and move air units closer to the front. The player should modify PO objectives
as the game progresses. These actions will greatly help “Elmer” to provide an
interesting challenge. The PO uses multiple tracks for both sides

thanks

You bet. Good subject. I'll put something together.


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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 12:40:18 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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There's been a request to demonstrate how to use Elmer to move your units.
So I'm going to concentrate on that for a bit, a little while.
First of all to do Elmer kinds of things we need to turn on Elmer and you
do that by clicking on the Elmer enable button and a cyan band will appear
on your units to signal they are subject to Elmer should you wish.

There's a button to move all the units but that's for after you've adjusted
all the objectives and you're happy with the tracks. There's another button
to move just a single formation at a time. I'll show you that next.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 12:51:34 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Once you've turned on Elmer and your units have a pink band you might want to turn
on the track for the current formation with the bottom left button. This shows
that the current formation, which I have been moving by hand is off course according
to the tracks "somebody" laid down for that formation bur the Axis side owns all the
objectives that the formation is responsible for so it'll go to objective 12 and
start from there. But you can modify the objectives so that they reflect what the
formation is actually doing at the moment and let Elmer handle it for you. Let's do
that.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 12:56:07 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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When you right click on an existing objective you'll be presented with a pop-up menu that will allow you to insert an
objective or delete one. I choose delete this objective to remove all the objectives back to just south of the
current position of the formation preparatory to my placing new objectives for this formation.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 12:59:04 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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So in this image you can see how I've used the above procedure to remove all the objectives except for the first 6. Now
when I right click on a hex it's going to place the next consequtive objective and I can lay down a new path for the
track.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 1:02:36 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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And in this image you can see where I've placed objectives 7 through 11 and the track stops in Leningrad. That's because
you don't need for all the objectives for the formation to be laid down for the entire track. You can always add
objectives for your formations at any time when it's your turn.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 1:09:34 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's the track for the next formation and you can see the track is pretty accurate for where the units are right now
and you can go ahead and let Elmer move them by pressing the bottom left button. If it's not highlighted it's not
enabled and you first have to enable the PO and then move the formation's units but in our case the button is enabled
already. So I press that button and the formation's units move.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 1:12:43 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I forgot to mention that the formation we were just talking about moving with Elmer has two units that are out of
position relative to their objectives so you'll have to replace them on the front lines before those units can be
moved by Elmer so don't press that bottom left button yet If you don't replace them they will attempt to
disengage and go pursue other objectives.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 1:17:13 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's a track that I changed to run through the formations current position and continue up to Leningrad. I'll add
more objectives as soon as the city is taken.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 2:36:40 PM   
sanderz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
I forgot to mention that the formation we were just talking about moving with Elmer has two units that are out of position relative to their objectives so you'll have to replace them on the front lines before those units can be moved by Elmer so don't press that bottom left button yet

when you say "replace them on the front line" do you just mean remove them from the enemy zoc (e.g. only 1 hex) or do you have to actually move them closer to the objective line (and if so how close?)


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
If you don't replace them they will attempt to disengage and go pursue other objectives.

do you mean they just join the nearest "other" formation with an Elmer objective?



On a separate topic how do you get to do this for the enemy? I would assume that when the turn ends the ai just runs their turn but the implication in the extract (from a scenario) i posted was that you could somehow interrupt the enemy turn to help them out by tweaking their Elmer - how do you do this?

Many thanks for all the help

cheers

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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 5:00:48 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:


when you say "replace them on the front line" do you just mean remove them from the enemy zoc (e.g. only 1 hex) or do you have to actually move them closer to the objective line (and if so how close?)

I'm sorry Sanderz dude, I didn't explain that very well. And of course you have questions because
I'm assuming a lot of knowledge you probably don't have yet and it's confusing. I'm sorry about
that. Let me try to explain what's going on under the hood. The formation is made up of about five
or six units that follow the track laid out for them to gain their objectives and when I move them
by hand I'm not paying attention to their objectives or their track and one or more of the units
can get separated from their formation and like those two out of place, they aren't on their track
persuing their objectives and if Elmer is moving them the will have objectives and a track that
the will attempt to disengage from the spot they're in and go to persue their new objectives and
if you haven't replaced them on the front line they very likely will leave a vaccant hex there.
They are all of a sudden assigned to other tasks and they will attempt to rejoin their formation
and work with them where ever they are now.

quote:

:ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
If you don't replace them they will attempt to disengage and go pursue other objectives.

quote:


do you mean they just join the nearest "other" formation with an Elmer objective?

I'm saying that if you all of a sudden start using Elmer to move the units they will
attempt to join their own original formation and pursue their new objectives and will
attempt to get on their new track. They will leave the hexes they are in and drive over
to where the formation they belong to is and work with them.

quote:


On a separate topic how do you get to do this for the enemy? I would assume that when the turn ends the ai just runs their turn but the implication in the extract (from a scenario) i posted was that you could somehow interrupt the enemy turn to help them out by tweaking their Elmer - how do you do this?

When Elmer is moving units you can left click on the game map and that will interrupt the moving
of the units and you will be presented with a dialog that you can choose to move no units by
Elmer any more and you will have control over the enemy side and can effect their units and view
their reports, etc. as if that were your side to play.

quote:


Many thanks for all the help

cheers

I started playing TOAW in about 2003 when I moved to Tucson and I've been playing ever since
and I've gained a lot of hard won information about the game and how to play it and how to
use Elmer etc. and this is my chance to give back and reach behind me to grab the hand of
someone coming up behind me to get them on track and persuing their objectives. Much good
gameplay awaits.


< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 12/6/2017 5:02:46 PM >


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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 5:13:12 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's a situation where I'm setting bad habits because I have here a formation that has an exposed flank and the Soviets
can just outflank that formation easily if they wanted to but Elmer being Elmer he's concentrating on something else and
doesn't always take advantages of opportunaties that come up from time to time. In other words you can play a little
bit more risky game than you can against a human player. Elmer is super focused on his tasks and can't be detered.




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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 5:26:58 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's what's going on in the nw right now. I'm trying to clear out the territories on a shoestring budget. I think I
may need more people up here. I'm seriously outnumbered when you count all the reserves that the Soviets have on the
west side of the bottleneck.

EDIT: I just now realized that I ought to place a unit where the shallow water hexes meet the continent because the
Soviet unit can traverse it as well as I can. He might get adventuresome and come across and spoil my very carefully
laid out LOC's.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 12/6/2017 5:34:34 PM >


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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 6:19:33 PM   
sanderz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:


when you say "replace them on the front line" do you just mean remove them from the enemy zoc (e.g. only 1 hex) or do you have to actually move them closer to the objective line (and if so how close?)

I'm sorry Sanderz dude, I didn't explain that very well. And of course you have questions because
I'm assuming a lot of knowledge you probably don't have yet and it's confusing. I'm sorry about
that. Let me try to explain what's going on under the hood. The formation is made up of about five
or six units that follow the track laid out for them to gain their objectives and when I move them
by hand I'm not paying attention to their objectives or their track and one or more of the units
can get separated from their formation and like those two out of place, they aren't on their track
persuing their objectives and if Elmer is moving them the will have objectives and a track that
the will attempt to disengage from the spot they're in and go to persue their new objectives and
if you haven't replaced them on the front line they very likely will leave a vaccant hex there.
They are all of a sudden assigned to other tasks and they will attempt to rejoin their formation
and work with them where ever they are now.

quote:

:ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
If you don't replace them they will attempt to disengage and go pursue other objectives.

quote:


do you mean they just join the nearest "other" formation with an Elmer objective?

I'm saying that if you all of a sudden start using Elmer to move the units they will
attempt to join their own original formation and pursue their new objectives and will
attempt to get on their new track. They will leave the hexes they are in and drive over
to where the formation they belong to is and work with them.

quote:


On a separate topic how do you get to do this for the enemy? I would assume that when the turn ends the ai just runs their turn but the implication in the extract (from a scenario) i posted was that you could somehow interrupt the enemy turn to help them out by tweaking their Elmer - how do you do this?

When Elmer is moving units you can left click on the game map and that will interrupt the moving
of the units and you will be presented with a dialog that you can choose to move no units by
Elmer any more and you will have control over the enemy side and can effect their units and view
their reports, etc. as if that were your side to play.

quote:


Many thanks for all the help

cheers

I started playing TOAW in about 2003 when I moved to Tucson and I've been playing ever since
and I've gained a lot of hard won information about the game and how to play it and how to
use Elmer etc. and this is my chance to give back and reach behind me to grab the hand of
someone coming up behind me to get them on track and persuing their objectives. Much good
gameplay awaits.



thanks again larry - that nails it

cheers

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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 6:35:27 PM   
sanderz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Here's what's going on in the nw right now. I'm trying to clear out the territories on a shoestring budget. I think I may need more people up here. I'm seriously outnumbered.......



i started to look at AGN ## in the game and trying to plan out the objectives for each army - i quickly came to the conclusion i needed twice as many troops - a really challenging scenario by the look of it

## EDIT - i am getting my scenarios mixed up - it was Directive 21 i was looking at - though it looks like the same applies here as you'd expect

how confident - or not - are you in achieving your objective - i think you said you were focusing on Moscow?

are there any theater options that would help? for example i have seen a scenario where you get an option of increased shock for an offensive but at the expense of a reduction in supplies later on


< Message edited by sanderz -- 12/6/2017 6:39:20 PM >

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RE: Workshop for the new guys - 12/6/2017 6:44:49 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

how confident - or not - are you in achieving your objective - i think you said you were focusing on Moscow?

The idea for the units in the NorthWest is to clear out the territories and push all the Soviet
units toward the bottleneck and destroy them. I'm thinking I'm giong to need a lot more people
to do that. As it is I'm barely holding my own hexes and it's starting to look iffy. I'm pretty
sure I can find a division or two down south that I can rail up here to help out.

quote:


are there any theater options that would help? for example i have seen a scenario where you get an option of increased shock for an offensive but at the expense of a reduction in supplies later on

You know, I looked for TO's earlier in the game and there weren't any and I haven't looked in a
while but you're correct that there's occassions that come up where there are TO's to help them
out. I can't remember the name of the operations but it seems like there's two separate events
to simulate the increases in morale and readiness that comes with a good push. And then yeah, the
supply is lowered for a couple of turns. But it seems like to me3 that those guys happen later
in the game. Sometime during the winter season or the changing of the year.

_____________________________

Thailand is the world's biggest producer of rubber.

(in reply to sanderz)
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