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Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new beta for testing

 
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Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new beta ... - 9/27/2017 1:58:53 AM   
Mgellis


Posts: 1903
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
It's been a while, but here is a new beta for testing.

It's 1987 and World War III has broken out. British submarines vs. Soviet submarines.

As always, please let me know what you think. What needs to be fixed? What could be improved? What can I do to make this a better scenario.

Thanks!

Version 4 uploaded 11:10 AM EST 11/4/17



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mgellis -- 11/4/2017 3:10:31 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/3/2017 6:19:40 PM   
AlexGGGG

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 9/25/2014
Status: offline
1. Allied ASW aircraft killed 2 subs on a first sortie. Not sure if this was luck, or they are supposed to be effective.
2. Enemy subs are firing at false contacts. Since I can watch the explosions, this gives me pretty good datum.
3. I'd like visible convoy route plotted, or some locked refpoints to indicate the route the convoy will take. Currently, scouting ahead is kind of difficult, because it is not going where I think it will.
4. At some point, soviet SSN will surface (or periscope, whatever) and start emitting radar. Nimrod gets it pretty quick.

ENEMY LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x PLA-671RTM Victor III [Shchuka]
2x PLA-671RT Victor II [Syomga]
1x PLA-945 Sierra I [Barrakuda]
1x PLARK-949A Oscar II [Antey]

And I only spent like 3 torpedoes. The rest was done by allied aircraft.

< Message edited by AlexGGGG -- 10/3/2017 6:37:12 PM >

(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 2
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/6/2017 12:07:00 AM   
Mgellis


Posts: 1903
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline

Thanks. I'll start tweaking it and post a new version soon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexGGGG

1. Allied ASW aircraft killed 2 subs on a first sortie. Not sure if this was luck, or they are supposed to be effective.
2. Enemy subs are firing at false contacts. Since I can watch the explosions, this gives me pretty good datum.
3. I'd like visible convoy route plotted, or some locked refpoints to indicate the route the convoy will take. Currently, scouting ahead is kind of difficult, because it is not going where I think it will.
4. At some point, soviet SSN will surface (or periscope, whatever) and start emitting radar. Nimrod gets it pretty quick.

ENEMY LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x PLA-671RTM Victor III [Shchuka]
2x PLA-671RT Victor II [Syomga]
1x PLA-945 Sierra I [Barrakuda]
1x PLARK-949A Oscar II [Antey]

And I only spent like 3 torpedoes. The rest was done by allied aircraft.


(in reply to AlexGGGG)
Post #: 3
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/17/2017 5:28:44 AM   
Mgellis


Posts: 1903
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
Version 2 uploaded. I tweaked the scenario just a little...increased the patrol area for the Nimrods so they are less likely to find the subs. Also, I think, I fixed the radar bug with the Victor. I also reduced the proficiency of the good guys so the Soviets have a slight edge in that area now, too.


(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 4
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/17/2017 6:59:19 AM   
tk208

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: Australia
Status: offline
Nice, I'll give it a go tonight

(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 5
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/18/2017 5:20:23 AM   
AlexGGGG

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 9/25/2014
Status: offline
Nope I'm still having them SSGNs surface and radiate.

Funny how they shoot their nuclear sub-bombs. I got a situation where I was tracking enemy sub with one of my own, shadwing him trying to get in range for a shot. Another enemy sub discovered me and shoot a nuke from far away; convoy seen it coming as a vampire. The nuke wiped off both my sub and the enemy sub I've been shadowing.

Well I did not finish it yet but this version is much more fun and challenge.

< Message edited by AlexGGGG -- 10/18/2017 7:37:23 AM >

(in reply to tk208)
Post #: 6
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/18/2017 8:58:18 AM   
tk208

 

Posts: 136
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: Australia
Status: offline
Yep the Oscar is still using it's radar, two unfortunate whales were vaporized by a pair of SS-N-15's and the Trafalgar by another.. Definitely a lot tougher now though!

(in reply to AlexGGGG)
Post #: 7
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/18/2017 11:42:50 AM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 4205
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: online
Had a quick run on this one last night. One thing I noticed (which shows how badly this went) is when a convoy escort gets sunk, you get the same message as if a major merchant gets nailed.

I think that something in the brief to indicate where the convoy is going would help (Bristol/Liverpool, Portsmouth, Scotland). The zig-zag is understandable but annoying as the escorting sub is always on the wrong foot - well mine was anyway.

B

(in reply to tk208)
Post #: 8
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/18/2017 4:55:58 PM   
AlexGGGG

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 9/25/2014
Status: offline
SIDE: Wolfpack Bravo
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x S 107 Trafalgar
1x S 108 Swiftsure


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
10x Mk24 Tigerfish Mod 2
1x Type 2066 Bandfish



SIDE: Soviet Union
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x PLA-671RTM Victor III [Shchuka]
2x PLA-671RT Victor II [Syomga] <--- 1x Detected by radar emissions
1x PLA-945 Sierra I [Barrakuda]
1x PLARK-949A Oscar II [Antey] <---- Detected by radar emissions


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
3x SS-N-15 Starfish [RPK-6 Vodopad, 5kT Nuclear] <--- Sheeeeeeeeet
20x Generic Acoustic Decoy
2x SS-N-16 Stallion [RPK-7 Vodopei, UMGT-1 Torpedo] <--- by the way, this should be RPK-7 Veter; Vodopei even sounds incorrect; note to self, will check that later
6x USET-80
1x SS-N-16 Stallion [RPK-7 Vodopei, 10kT Nuclear] <--- Sheeeeeeeeet
4x 65-76 Kit WH



SIDE: Nature
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Biologic Fish School


EXPENDITURES:
------------------



SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Commercial Container Vessel - Panamax [4,500 TEU, 65,000t DWT]


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
153x SSQ-905 Jezebel LOFAR
113x SSQ-947 Julie Active Range-Only [AN/SSQ-47]
130x SSQ-963A CAMBS III
32x AN/SSQ-62B DICASS
8x Stingray Mod 0
2x RUR-5A Mod 4 ASROC RTT [Mk46 Mod 5]
2x Mk46 NEARTIP Mod 5
2x RUR-5A Mod 3 ASROC RTD [10kT Nuclear DC]

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 9
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/19/2017 1:33:39 AM   
Mgellis


Posts: 1903
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
Version 3 uploaded. I think I figured out the radar bug finally. Also made a few more tweaks that should make the orders a bit more clear and the scenario a little more challenging.

Please let me know what you think. Thanks!

(in reply to AlexGGGG)
Post #: 10
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/19/2017 10:03:04 AM   
AlexGGGG

 

Posts: 682
Joined: 9/25/2014
Status: offline
That's great. I played it through and seen no anomalies. Convoy waypoints are very nice.

(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 11
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 10/31/2017 4:49:45 PM   
Mgellis


Posts: 1903
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
Any other thoughts on this one? Or is it ready for the Community Scenario Pack?

(in reply to AlexGGGG)
Post #: 12
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 11/2/2017 1:41:38 AM   
AndrewJ

 

Posts: 1701
Joined: 1/5/2014
Status: offline
I tried out Version 3. A few assorted observations below.

There is a special action to add the Ocelot, but the Ocelot is already on the map at the start of the game. Are you intended to be able to have two of them?

The Soviets spent a lot of time flinging nukes (4 of them!) at fish, and in the process managed to sink their Oscar.

A couple of the Soviet subs went to quite shallow depths (2m, and 11m), allowing the shallower of the two to be detected by Nimrod radar.

The lead ship of the convoy arrives at its final waypoint with 1 day 18 hours to go, and then the convoy remains motionless, spread half-way across the English Channel for the remainder of the game. Perhaps they could be given some dock facilities, and be given an RTB order when they reach the final destination? Or simply deleted and the player given a message to the effect that the convoy is dispersing to dock? Since it seems to be the story-line focus they may also wonder "now what?" when it reaches its destination and there's still plenty of game to go.

Given the importance of the convoy in the briefing, the player will probably expect some points for its safe arrival, rather than just trying to avoid points loss for it being sunk.

Why such a big spread on the convoy? It's 25 nm long from front to back, meaning the escorting frigates can't effectively cover it all with ASROC or their sonar. (Unless this is an anti-nuke posture?)

The Brits are definitely on the technological back foot in this one. They're up against a foe using nuclear and conventional stand-off weapons, who also has effective anti-sub torps with a 12nm @ 50 kt performance on their better subs and 8 nm @ 45 kt on their worst. The Brits have the pathetic Tigerfish (7 nm @ 35 kt). Catching a running Victor with one of those means closing to within 1 nm. Catch a running Sierra? Well, it's as fast as your torps... As far as sonar goes, the Soviets actually have better sonars than the British on 4 of their 6 subs. So it's probably going to be a tough time for the British player.

Edit: forgot to mention the 'collision' incident (Event Violet). While this sort of thing may happen from time to time in real life, in this case it seems to serve no particular story-line purpose. If engineering casualties were happening to both sides as part of regular game-play that would be reasonable (albeit aggravating), but to my grumpy mind it seemed more like pain arbitrarily inflicted on one side without any situational justification.


< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 11/2/2017 1:56:25 AM >

(in reply to Mgellis)
Post #: 13
RE: Hunter-Killer Duel in the Celtic Sea, 1987 -- new b... - 11/4/2017 3:12:17 PM   
Mgellis


Posts: 1903
Joined: 8/18/2007
Status: offline
Version 4 uploaded. I tweaked a few things and, I think, fixed errors like the sub depth problem (there are some places where the layer is very shallow for some reason so I just set a mission depth...but not an attack depth...that seems to do the trick). Please let me know what you think. Is this one ready for the Community Scenario Pack or is there anything else I need to do? Thanks!

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 14
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