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US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/1/2017 6:35:32 PM   
AcePylut


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Already you JFB's....

It's December 7th, 1941... time to start planning on how to deal with the late war US Heavy Bombers.

What are the best US 4E killing Japanese airplanes that I could conceivably have in, say, June 1944, Jan 1945, June 1945... for both the IJA and IJN?

If a plane comes in Dec 44, and I can increase it's research and have it available in June 44 - will doing so "totally ruin" all other aircraft research that needs to be done with the IJ Economy? If by going for research on that path, what am I surrendering "in the meantime"? (I.e. I don't want to push every research factory towards that airplane, such that I'm screwed between 42 - June 44).

Discuss!



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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/1/2017 6:41:08 PM   
geofflambert


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Air superiority is always the objective. Do that and you have a chance. Bombers are shot down by flak or not at all.

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/1/2017 7:25:26 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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The George is excellent in this role, it can also hold its own against most Allied Fighters.
Another one would be the Shinden.

For the Army the last two versions of the Tony do very well imo.

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/1/2017 7:49:00 PM   
AcePylut


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I've always liked the George.... ever since I "played" it in Avalon Hill's "Air Force" series of boardgames. (in a made up campaign I played, my Japanese pilot ended up in the George. He had about 300 kills by then.... but hey, I was like 10 years old when I started the "role playing" campaign so a high kill rate is to be expected, especially when playing it "solo") It's also nice plane in Warthunder (but way up-jumped on its BR - I don't like the battle rating system they use) when it gets spaded.

Back to Witp...

What about trying to push those "Japanese versions" of the Me-262 and Me-163? Is it worth it to increase the research of those planes to bring them forward? With their 30mm cannons, they seem like the best planes (and that's probably why the Shinden is good - Quad 30mm Cannons and good speed). Should I forget about the rocket and jet planes and just go for the J7W?

< Message edited by AcePylut -- 9/1/2017 7:50:21 PM >


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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/1/2017 10:10:33 PM   
DanSez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut
What about trying to push those "Japanese versions" of the Me-262 and Me-163?


Each has its own 'special' engine which you will need to R&D as well. Far distant dates and you will be foregoing the development of mid-war fighters.

still...
If you are playing against the AI, then go for it. If you are going against a human opponent, you probably won't live (game time) long enough to see those jets and rockets deployed without serious major heavy commitment in R&D factories.

A7-Sam has been noted in many AARs as an important fighter to get as early as possible. If you go Jets/Rockets, you delay getting A7-Sam deployed. And don't forget you need to research night fighters (especially vs a human opponent). Nicks and Irvings will serve, but you want to get them a bit earlier rather than waiting for Allied 4Es to start pecking you towards death beginning about mid 43.


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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/1/2017 10:41:17 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

I've always liked the George.... ever since I "played" it in Avalon Hill's "Air Force" series of boardgames. (in a made up campaign I played, my Japanese pilot ended up in the George. He had about 300 kills by then.... but hey, I was like 10 years old when I started the "role playing" campaign so a high kill rate is to be expected, especially when playing it "solo") It's also nice plane in Warthunder (but way up-jumped on its BR - I don't like the battle rating system they use) when it gets spaded.

I had that game!

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 12:37:34 AM   
Admiral DadMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

The George is excellent in this role, it can also hold its own against most Allied Fighters.
Another one would be the Shinden.

For the Army the last two versions of the Tony do very well imo.

N1K1-s are vicious.

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 1:03:33 AM   
geofflambert


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Linda Day George




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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 1:11:35 AM   
geofflambert


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Susan George I'm not quite so fond of.




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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 2:09:47 AM   
AcePylut


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But let me guess, you really prefer some George Costanza?




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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 2:22:23 AM   
reg113


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Have you never seen "Straw Dogs"?

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 3:11:50 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan
N1K1-s are vicious.


Early war, this is your best bet. In general, for bomber killers think of 'cannons'. Those IJNAF or IJAAF airframes with center line cannons (more accurate) are best. More is better. "Damaged" enemy bombers are useful as well, as they tend to increase OPS losses or repair times back at base after they're shot up.

Forget about the jets. Forget about the Shinden. Get enough mid-war fighters up in volume and you'll slit 'em up a treat. Don't waste your research efforts pining for an uber-aircraft that you either won't get or will only have in small numbers for a fleeting moment before capitulation.

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 4:56:51 PM   
AcePylut


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Dumb question probably answered in the manual.. but if I change all of the "Shinden" research factories to, say, the George, will the Shinden become available at its 'historical' date, or will it not appear, ever?

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 5:15:05 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Dumb question probably answered in the manual.. but if I change all of the "Shinden" research factories to, say, the George, will the Shinden become available at its 'historical' date, or will it not appear, ever?

Yes. The Shinden will become available at its historical date, even if you switch all the research factories to something else. Make sure you have the appropriate engines in quantity for any aircraft too. Some of the historical airframe dates precede the available engine availability dates.

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 6:25:03 PM   
AcePylut


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That's good to know, thanks!

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 8:06:49 PM   
AcePylut


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Ok, so I"m going to try and bring the first two N1K1's and the A7M Sam forward, and also the Ki-61 that has cannons. The third George isn't available until 10/45 so I don't see a reason to bring that forward since by then it won't matter too much.

What other Japanese aircraft should I bring forward?

Also - how much could one bring a plane forward given a typical "increase in research" plan? A couple months, 6 months, a year? I.e. if I put every single research factory into bringing the George forward, will I get it, say, 1 year sooner? Or just 6 months.

Lets say, for discussion sake, I get it 6 months earlier, at the cost of every other aircraft being brought forward.... well, lets say I research 4-5 other vital aircraft and spread the research around, could I get the George 4 months earlier, 2 months, 1 month?

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 8:14:33 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Ok, so I"m going to try and bring the first two N1K1's and the A7M Sam forward, and also the Ki-61 that has cannons. The third George isn't available until 10/45 so I don't see a reason to bring that forward since by then it won't matter too much.

What other Japanese aircraft should I bring forward?



Only produce the first N1K1. The 'b' model's cannon's "upgrade" is anything but. Recommend turning off any factory upgrades here.

The Ki-61D is a better plane than the a model. But recommend 'pushing through' the research tree until you get to the Ki-100-1. I think you're right to stop at the 2nd George too. The Sam is a good bet to research heavily also.

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/2/2017 8:56:52 PM   
crsutton


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How quickly can the KI93 (83?) twin engine fighter be advanced? Seems like the best of all but with a 10/45 historical date it just may be too late regardless.

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/3/2017 3:00:56 PM   
Lokasenna


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Anything with cannons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

How quickly can the KI93 (83?) twin engine fighter be advanced? Seems like the best of all but with a 10/45 historical date it just may be too late regardless.


I'll keep you posted.

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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/3/2017 4:20:03 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

How quickly can the KI93 (83?) twin engine fighter be advanced? Seems like the best of all but with a 10/45 historical date it just may be too late regardless.


Nonsense.

In a scenario 2 game Japan can afford to accelerate any one fantasy fighter they want. You can get them around Jan of 1945.

Tougher in a scenario one game, but doable...but you need to anticipate the chances you will get past 1945. First time JFB's are better off just getting the Frank and Sam very early and making tons, imho.




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RE: US Heavy Bomber killing planes - 9/4/2017 4:34:12 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Best ones overall should be Frank B and Ki94 (the 2nd one is too late and uses Ha44 "unusal" engine). The army 20mm guns are also slighty more acurate than the navy ones. Ofc an earlier plane would be George already named, but their cannons should be a bit worse than the Frank cannons as well you have more army units than navy.

Seems even old A6M2 with good pilots and more numbers then bombers can kill 4Es (from my PBM, 11/42)

Morning Air attack on X

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 32

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 7
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-25C Mitchell x 8

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged


Morning Air attack on x

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 4
B-25C Mitchell x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-25C Mitchell: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 9/4/2017 4:51:15 PM >

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