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AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 3:19:31 PM   
pontiouspilot


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I'm curious how many AI players there are who are nonetheless active on the forums?

We all know the problem with AI. Is it feasible to create a pool of willing surrogates for AI who are willing to step into these AI games for several turns/month or as required to perform a "redirect" of sorts for a wanky AI script?? I have certainly gone into some old AI games and done this. This might help alleviate the worst tangents that the AI heads down.

What would the technical hurdles to this be? The main one I see is that the surrogate would need to be on same Beta.
Post #: 1
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 3:28:46 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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Well yes I'd like to surrogate. For a short period. That should be enough.

Nice idea.

(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 2
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 6:04:34 PM   
jwolf

 

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It would be embarrassing if I offered myself as an "AI surrogate" only to perform even worse than the AI! Entirely possible, actually.

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 6:07:59 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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I play Andys Allied Ironman AI. Curently I bring AA into...China. Its 43 and I can hold my own..barely.

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 7:17:46 PM   
pontiouspilot


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Maybe those that complain about AI have all moved on to PBEM and there is no demand...we'll see I guess.

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Post #: 5
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 7:20:26 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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Ah uhm I totaly misread the op somehow.

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Post #: 6
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 7:30:39 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Ah uhm I totaly misread the op somehow.




Did you think it was for avian influenza? That's the most common use of that acronym in my world.

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Post #: 7
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 8:19:34 PM   
Yaab


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Played stock, Babes and RHS scenarios versus Jap AI. Jap AI is OK if you use some self-limiting house rules. For example, as the Allied player I do not use universal supply. If I want to use US combat units in India or Australia I need to ship US-produced supplies to those places. I ship no fuel in xAKs as cargo. I don't use 4Es in tactical ground missions. I only up supply in bases which are on railroads to simulate more trains arriving to meet the upped demand. Armored units cannot go into mountain/jungle hexes that have no roads. I disband AMc ar AM TF in ports, when their DL hits 9 or 10, just to make sure the stupid Betties and Nells do not impale themselves on my CAP etc.

Frankly, these days, I mostly play "Underrail" which is a terrific CRPG. Highly recommended.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 8/28/2017 8:20:36 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 8:36:15 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Ah uhm I totaly misread the op somehow.




Did you think it was for avian influenza? That's the most common use of that acronym in my world.

I bet the prospect of someone shooting diseased chickens with AA guns gives you the creeps.

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Post #: 9
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/28/2017 9:09:49 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Played stock, Babes and RHS scenarios versus Jap AI. Jap AI is OK if you use some self-limiting house rules. For example, as the Allied player I do not use universal supply. If I want to use US combat units in India or Australia I need to ship US-produced supplies to those places. I ship no fuel in xAKs as cargo. I don't use 4Es in tactical ground missions. I only up supply in bases which are on railroads to simulate more trains arriving to meet the upped demand. Armored units cannot go into mountain/jungle hexes that have no roads. I disband AMc ar AM TF in ports, when their DL hits 9 or 10, just to make sure the stupid Betties and Nells do not impale themselves on my CAP etc.

Frankly, these days, I mostly play "Underrail" which is a terrific CRPG. Highly recommended.


When I play an AI game, I will often step in a for 2-3 turns in a row and play both sides to help correct some of the really bad decisions the AI can make. It helps, but the AI is still the AI. Like my last game where I took Noumea early and placed a SAG there and the AI just kept sending lightly escorted transport groups filled with engineers there despite not having control of the base. For whatever reason, the AI simply will not quit executing the 'build up Noumea' plan, even when the base is in enemy hands. The AI didn't even try to dislodge my cruisers with air or surface forces, just kept sending in transport fleets with sub-chasers as escorts.

So yeah, you either have to purposely limit yourself or help the AI. Sure PBEM is better, but I do like having the ability to play 10-12 turns in an hour or so against the AI.

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/29/2017 1:57:24 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Ah uhm I totaly misread the op somehow.




Did you think it was for avian influenza? That's the most common use of that acronym in my world.

I bet the prospect of someone shooting diseased chickens with AA guns gives you the creeps.


There's a Kim Jung Un relative-dressed-in-a-chicken-suit joke in there somewhere...

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Post #: 11
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/29/2017 9:31:13 AM   
SigUp

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

So yeah, you either have to purposely limit yourself or help the AI. Sure PBEM is better, but I do like having the ability to play 10-12 turns in an hour or so against the AI.

10-12 turns an hour? How are you doing that?

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 12
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/29/2017 1:42:41 PM   
LeeChard

 

Posts: 994
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Played stock, Babes and RHS scenarios versus Jap AI. Jap AI is OK if you use some self-limiting house rules. For example, as the Allied player I do not use universal supply. If I want to use US combat units in India or Australia I need to ship US-produced supplies to those places. I ship no fuel in xAKs as cargo. I don't use 4Es in tactical ground missions. I only up supply in bases which are on railroads to simulate more trains arriving to meet the upped demand. Armored units cannot go into mountain/jungle hexes that have no roads. I disband AMc ar AM TF in ports, when their DL hits 9 or 10, just to make sure the stupid Betties and Nells do not impale themselves on my CAP etc.

Frankly, these days, I mostly play "Underrail" which is a terrific CRPG. Highly recommended.


When I play an AI game, I will often step in a for 2-3 turns in a row and play both sides to help correct some of the really bad decisions the AI can make. It helps, but the AI is still the AI. Like my last game where I took Noumea early and placed a SAG there and the AI just kept sending lightly escorted transport groups filled with engineers there despite not having control of the base. For whatever reason, the AI simply will not quit executing the 'build up Noumea' plan, even when the base is in enemy hands. The AI didn't even try to dislodge my cruisers with air or surface forces, just kept sending in transport fleets with sub-chasers as escorts.

So yeah, you either have to purposely limit yourself or help the AI. Sure PBEM is better, but I do like having the ability to play 10-12 turns in an hour or so against the AI.

This has been my experience. Once you've made your changes and turn the side back to the AI it immediately begins to undo what you did.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 13
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/30/2017 10:16:09 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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I used to do this for anyone that wanted me to

Basically once every 3 or 4 months game time step in and do a couple of Japanese turns to move air groups around disband some that are depleted move ships that the AI has left exposed etc etc

But after a while no one seemed to want it so I stopped offering

Always happy to do it its not time consuming and it helps the AI a lot

(in reply to LeeChard)
Post #: 14
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/30/2017 2:57:20 PM   
pontiouspilot


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That's what I thought....doesn't appear to be much interest.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 15
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/30/2017 3:53:17 PM   
MakeeLearn


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I brought this up a few weeks ago,

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4315073

"If a person did not want to play a entire campaign against another person, could they just do AI turns every now and then for people... HMMMM???"

Or

"when playing against the AI, every now and then the player would do a turn as the AI in order to boost its prowess"



and was reminded that...

quote:


Lokasenna

Be careful if you do this from the Allied side and play 'hotseat', essentially, by loading up the Japanese side and closing the orders then loading up as Allies. Take careful note of the Manchuria garrison number... if you close it out as a human while the AI has the garrison drawn under the required amount, it will prematurely activate the Soviets. The AI is under no such garrison restriction.


So if you play some turns for the Japan AI you may trigger garrison penalties and/or Russian activation.

And....


quote:

PaxMondo
6. you cannot mix PBEM and AI games. You can mix AI and H2H games though ....


Although, cannot just normal game saves been sent to someone who wanted to play a few turns as someone's AI?

(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 16
RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/31/2017 2:22:59 AM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

So yeah, you either have to purposely limit yourself or help the AI. Sure PBEM is better, but I do like having the ability to play 10-12 turns in an hour or so against the AI.

10-12 turns an hour? How are you doing that?


An hour or so really being about 2 hours or so. What I meant was being able to play a lot of turns in one evening. Since I don't use combat animations, etc anymore, replay only takes a few minutes to complete. Realistically I'm probably getting in closer to 3-6 turns in an hour, depending on how many orders I have to issue. Against the AI, and not being too aggressive for it means that I have several turns where I only have to issue an order or two.

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/31/2017 9:28:21 PM   
Timotheus

 

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As a newbie player who gets from the "complete clueless idiot" stage to "incompetent moron" stage, so much this:
"I do like having the ability to play 10-12 turns in an hour or so against the AI. "

Except not an hour. Probably 10-12 turns per 2.5 hours......




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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 8/31/2017 11:50:49 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

... it helps the AI a lot


+1
+1
+1


I use (and I completely forget who it was now) off map bases for disbanding additional devices/aircraft for the AI. So every few months I when I check the AI situation, I also check device and aircraft pools. I can disband units in those bases and keep the AI going. This has proven to be very effective for me in getting the AI to last.

Since I play the IJ, my narrative is that the allies are diverting material from Europe ....

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 8/31/2017 11:56:17 PM >


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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 9/1/2017 12:33:18 AM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

... it helps the AI a lot


+1
+1
+1


I use (and I completely forget who it was now) off map bases for disbanding additional devices/aircraft for the AI. So every few months I when I check the AI situation, I also check device and aircraft pools. I can disband units in those bases and keep the AI going. This has proven to be very effective for me in getting the AI to last.

Since I play the IJ, my narrative is that the allies are diverting material from Europe ....

Would you mind to explain a little broader what you do ?

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 9/1/2017 12:50:17 AM   
PaxMondo


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So, JWE, <someone I forget>, and myself worked out how to create offmap bases. You can then create airgroups and LCU's with devices that when disbanded fall into the pools. For PBEM games, you can create a PP cost. But against AI since it doesn't use PP, I keep a scorecard offbook for VP's. Not a big deal.

Anyway, I just play H2H every 6 - 9 weeks to help the AI and I check pools. If they are low, I disband units to fill them up. simple.

I could just crank up the production even more, but this way I have a bit of control for narrative ....

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Pax

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 9/1/2017 1:55:00 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I used to do this for anyone that wanted me to

Basically once every 3 or 4 months game time step in and do a couple of Japanese turns to move air groups around disband some that are depleted move ships that the AI has left exposed etc etc

But after a while no one seemed to want it so I stopped offering

Always happy to do it its not time consuming and it helps the AI a lot


+1

He has done it for me back when I played Nasty., and in addition to strengthening the AI...the best part is he gives hints on what not to do to break the AI...there are some tactics that the AI just has trouble with.

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 9/1/2017 1:13:31 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

So, JWE, <someone I forget>, and myself worked out how to create offmap bases. You can then create airgroups and LCU's with devices that when disbanded fall into the pools. For PBEM games, you can create a PP cost. But against AI since it doesn't use PP, I keep a scorecard offbook for VP's. Not a big deal.

Anyway, I just play H2H every 6 - 9 weeks to help the AI and I check pools. If they are low, I disband units to fill them up. simple.

I could just crank up the production even more, but this way I have a bit of control for narrative ....

I see, thank you

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 9/1/2017 1:22:19 PM   
PaxMondo


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NP. It is in the Scenario folder somewhere. Maybe 2 years or so back ...

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Pax

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 9/14/2017 6:09:29 PM   
Zecke


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we play the AI sometimes because is makes headache to make the house rules,(as you can understand as japanise for example to have at 43 around IWO JIMA two or 3 allied Kido-butais without conquering kawaljen..and this is not possible) never never get satisfated by both sides.

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 9/14/2017 6:47:36 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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I think it is actually a good idea,

and as long as it doesn't take too much time or effort, I would be happy to do so

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RE: AI players...surrogate for AI - 9/14/2017 9:17:53 PM   
traskott


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Count on me!!

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