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Pilot Training : Defensive skill

 
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Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/18/2017 12:27:24 PM   
ElvisDaKing


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Hi

To train my new fighter recruits, i put them in squadron CAP 30 / Train 70 , range 0, so my pilots increase their Air Skill as well as their Experience...
But question is, how do you increase their Defensive skill ?

< Message edited by ElvisDaKing -- 6/18/2017 12:46:33 PM >


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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/18/2017 12:49:50 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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I normally train in escort at regular altitude to gain "air"
then switch to sweep at low altitude to get "defense"

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 6/18/2017 12:50:35 PM >

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/18/2017 1:23:25 PM   
GetAssista

 

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Training sweep at 100m seems to be the best way for fighters to gain Def, after they are 70 in Air. But training any other skill also will increase Def

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/18/2017 3:22:59 PM   
MrKane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing

Hi

To train my new fighter recruits, i put them in squadron CAP 30 / Train 70 , range 0, so my pilots increase their Air Skill as well as their Experience...
But question is, how do you increase their Defensive skill ?


For me it is the most critical skill. All my pilots are trained with Defensive skill > 70 before leaving training unit. Standard settings for fighter training squadron is like this: Training sweep 100%, range 0, altitude 10000 until they get to def = 70. As result usually my green pilot joining combat unit looks like: exp(50-58) air(50-55) def(70-71). This methods work fine for me and my opponent are not complaining about quality of my pilots.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/19/2017 1:17:00 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Training sweep at 100m seems to be the best way for fighters to gain Def, after they are 70 in Air. But training any other skill also will increase Def


I prefer ground attack at 100 feet - trains Strafe and Defense.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/19/2017 5:43:22 AM   
Barb


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I usually train for month at sweep 100% at 10000ft, range 0, (get A2A skill to about 60-70) then switch for altitude 100ft for another month (get strafe skill to about 60-70) - defensive skill would be too raised to about 60-70.

For allies I also tend to throw another month of Ground bombing - a lot of fighters can actually carry bombs and be quite helpful in backwater for suppression.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/20/2017 4:32:52 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Training sweep at 100m seems to be the best way for fighters to gain Def, after they are 70 in Air. But training any other skill also will increase Def


I prefer ground attack at 100 feet - trains Strafe and Defense.


Not statistically proven - and I am no veteran expert compared to the above - but for fighter back base hubs :

Train "General" (often Rest mode) Alt = 15000 Range 1 for about a month

Train "Escort" Alt = 15000 Range 1 for about a month

Train Ground Attack Alt = 100 Range 1 for about a month.

--

I think Train general is often under recommended.

When drawing from reserve I rarely hand pick select pilots. Having at least a 'base grade' is very helpful.

In 90 ++ days I seem to "generally end up" with a Fighter pilot screen practically all orange and green.

Overall Experience ~ 50+ Overall Air ~ 60 + Overall Defense ~ 60+ and nothing less than 25 in most every category (albeit Nav can be lower).

Now of course there is always a few remedial learners at the bottom of the list...but dump the "release top 10 - release top 10" into general reserve and start over.







< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 6/20/2017 4:35:06 PM >


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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/20/2017 4:52:43 PM   
Lokasenna


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I never train General, because I don't want the skill gain to be randomized. I want them focused on particular skills. I also never train on Range 1 - why would you do this? It will just result in an increase in Ops losses due to fatigue.

And the results I get show it. I put pilots into reserve at 60+ Exp, Air 70+, and Defense 60+ as well as Strafe 60+. Typically what happens is I train until most of the pilots in the group are 70+ Air skill, which will result in a low-50s Exp level and Defense in the upper 40s/mid 50s. Then I switch to Strafe, and by the time Strafe is in the 60s their Exp will be in the low 60s and Defense will be at least in the low 60s.

I don't keep track of how many days this takes, but it works the best.

Also, the proof isn't statistical it's empirical. Train on Ground attack at 100 ft and you will see Strafe and Defense skills increasing.


Bonus to this method: you can put Strafe-trained fighter pilots in attack bombers with all the nose guns (as Strafe is the skill they use, not LowG or LowN bombing skills), and Air skill does seem to affect how well the bombers perform against enemy fighters. A month ago or thereabouts I had a bomber pilot get "Ace in a Day" status.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/20/2017 4:59:14 PM   
szmike

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I don't keep track of how many days this takes, but it works the best.

Also, the proof isn't statistical it's empirical.

+1

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/20/2017 5:23:56 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I never train General, because I don't want the skill gain to be randomized. I want them focused on particular skills. I also never train on Range 1 - why would you do this? It will just result in an increase in Ops losses due to fatigue.

And the results I get show it. I put pilots into reserve at 60+ Exp, Air 70+, and Defense 60+ as well as Strafe 60+. Typically what happens is I train until most of the pilots in the group are 70+ Air skill, which will result in a low-50s Exp level and Defense in the upper 40s/mid 50s. Then I switch to Strafe, and by the time Strafe is in the 60s their Exp will be in the low 60s and Defense will be at least in the low 60s.

I don't keep track of how many days this takes, but it works the best.

Also, the proof isn't statistical it's empirical. Train on Ground attack at 100 ft and you will see Strafe and Defense skills increasing.


Bonus to this method: you can put Strafe-trained fighter pilots in attack bombers with all the nose guns (as Strafe is the skill they use, not LowG or LowN bombing skills), and Air skill does seem to affect how well the bombers perform against enemy fighters. A month ago or thereabouts I had a bomber pilot get "Ace in a Day" status.


Learnings... and thanks...

Yes empirical not statistical.

I was not disagreeing with you on Ground attack at all.. merely I introduced ground attack at the end in a "home made" cycle.

Perhaps my "home made cycle" is merely more convenient for me to manage than truly optimized.

I have not progressed in the game where I have been caught out by poor planning ..i.e. PBem play or other.

However despite the "randomization" of all those other skills - do you never find need "latter on" for other skills ??

I think I have switched fighter types into various roles from time to time (and then back again) at least against AI opponent I thought it stood me well.... though perhaps I am wrong..

Example include the P39 in Naval Attack moving forward with a Coral Sea campaign...



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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/21/2017 9:51:45 PM   
Lokasenna


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It's worth noting that when you pull a pilot from replacements, the pilots skills are generated based on the unit type. Later in the war, Allied pilot average skills (and XP) for replacement pools is at least around 40. If you're out of trained pilots for a unit type, it's better to just pull in from replacements than your cross-trained pilots as you mentioned above.

Example: Fighter pilot that had randomized general training for a while and has NavB/NavT skills in the 30s. Better to pull from Replacements(40), as the NavB/NavT will be about 40 in that case.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/22/2017 12:14:52 AM   
Big B

 

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This is a good question and deserves some thought.
Like some previous posters have mentioned Defense is all-important.

What I have found works best for fighter units is the following (but this takes a bit longer)-
1) Fill the training unit to 100% of allowed pilots (ratio is now more pilots than aircraft, which slows it down a bit - but will pay dividends if the unit is sent intact to combat).
2) Have the Unit train ESCORT 100% under 10,000 feet, and ZERO Range (reason is NOT to Waste air-frames, greater altitude has no effect anyway). ESCORT seems to raise Defensive Skill, Experience, and Air Skill Simultaneously faster than any other, until the unit hits Experience 55 or greater.
3) When the unit hits about 55 Exp, check it EVERY DAY - to see to what experience is being gained. Once gain is down to one or two pilots per day - switch to 100% CAP... Again check daily to watch until experience gain AGAIN drops to one or two pilots per day.
4) At that point, Switch back and forth between CAP and TRAINING ESCORT until, after a day or two - no one is gaining experience.
5) By this time, Air Skill should be around 70, Experience above 60, Defense above 60 - now is the time to introduce a week or two at a time of Strafing to gain more Defense (ground/naval attack at altitude 100 feet), and to a lesser degree Experience.
6) At this point your Air Skill should be a solid 70+, Experience 64+, Defense over 60. Now it's a matter of giving the unit new training missions every couple days to boost the three key Experience Ratings - Exp\Air|Def, and intermix with CAP every few days (Flying CAP increases Air Skill and Experience fast).

Using this method takes a level 25 bunch of newbie pilots - to combat readiness in about 3 or 4 months.

Last and biggest recommendations: Train at the biggest bases possible, with OVER 20,000 Supply and (hopefully) an Air HQ - gets 'em all flying daily.
One Last bit of advice - take the time to give the training squadron a good leader.

Hope that helps.

B

< Message edited by Big B -- 6/22/2017 12:21:05 AM >


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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/22/2017 2:47:49 AM   
szmike

 

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Also of note - pilots train about twice as quickly in Allied offmap bases... it maybe bias, but my experience is such.

Aren't offmap bases influenced by weather? It would explain that.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/22/2017 5:53:21 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

This is a good question and deserves some thought.
Like some previous posters have mentioned Defense is all-important.

What I have found works best for fighter units is the following (but this takes a bit longer)-
1) Fill the training unit to 100% of allowed pilots (ratio is now more pilots than aircraft, which slows it down a bit - but will pay dividends if the unit is sent intact to combat).
2) Have the Unit train ESCORT 100% under 10,000 feet, and ZERO Range (reason is NOT to Waste air-frames, greater altitude has no effect anyway). ESCORT seems to raise Defensive Skill, Experience, and Air Skill Simultaneously faster than any other, until the unit hits Experience 55 or greater.
3) When the unit hits about 55 Exp, check it EVERY DAY - to see to what experience is being gained. Once gain is down to one or two pilots per day - switch to 100% CAP... Again check daily to watch until experience gain AGAIN drops to one or two pilots per day.
4) At that point, Switch back and forth between CAP and TRAINING ESCORT until, after a day or two - no one is gaining experience.
5) By this time, Air Skill should be around 70, Experience above 60, Defense above 60 - now is the time to introduce a week or two at a time of Strafing to gain more Defense (ground/naval attack at altitude 100 feet), and to a lesser degree Experience.
6) At this point your Air Skill should be a solid 70+, Experience 64+, Defense over 60. Now it's a matter of giving the unit new training missions every couple days to boost the three key Experience Ratings - Exp\Air|Def, and intermix with CAP every few days (Flying CAP increases Air Skill and Experience fast).

Using this method takes a level 25 bunch of newbie pilots - to combat readiness in about 3 or 4 months.

Last and biggest recommendations: Train at the biggest bases possible, with OVER 20,000 Supply and (hopefully) an Air HQ - gets 'em all flying daily.
One Last bit of advice - take the time to give the training squadron a good leader.

Hope that helps.

B


You should change the 100% (or 90% depending on fatigue) CAP if your goal is Experience gain. They will gain experience faster on CAP than on training. Don't switch back and forth, or switch the missions around. All you'll do with that is just spread the gains around. If you want particular things, you should focus the training or missions on those particular things.

Biggest base past a certain point (large enough to have supplies and maintain the planes) doesn't matter. Likewise, to my knowledge offmap vs. onmap base doesn't matter a hoot.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/22/2017 4:12:08 PM   
bushpsu

 

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Big B,

What constitutes a "good training leader?"

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/22/2017 5:39:49 PM   
Big B

 

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Since we are talking Fighter Squadrons, I always put the leader in the squadron that's going to take them into combat (so he's not just a training leader).
To that end, I select a leader who is above 55 in Leadership, Inspiration, and Aggression, and above 60 in Air Skill.

Admin skill may be very important for training and reconstituting the unit - but since you seldom get that many good qualities in every leader (and different nations have VERY different leader pools), I default to the four categories I sited above.


B


quote:

ORIGINAL: bushpsu

Big B,

What constitutes a "good training leader?"



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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/22/2017 8:24:10 PM   
Lokasenna


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I don't bother changing leaders of training squadrons. There isn't much point. As long as they aren't abysmal, then they're good enough. Anything 50+ in Leadership/Inspiration/Air is just fine. Those are the only 3 that could conceivably affect pilot training, by doing the following respectively:

Experience gain rates (allegedly)

Maintaining high morale (not really that useful because morale won't drop if you have range at 0 and altitude at a suitable level)

Preventing Ops losses (maybe)

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/23/2017 2:31:00 PM   
szmike

 

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For training any leader with Leadership 55+ will do, inspiration probably makes more pilots fly, so it's good to have, otherwise nothing seem important enough to bother.
There was information having 1-2 pilots with good skill improves gains, but I don't know if it holds true with all the changes over the years.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/23/2017 6:03:46 PM   
Lokasenna


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I don't think it was ever true - that was only ever just conjecture, and remains so.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/24/2017 4:57:28 AM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I don't think it was ever true - that was only ever just conjecture, and remains so.

I've run a pretty large set of sandbox tests on training and to this point I can tell you that ALL of the following affect the rate of pilot exp gain:

1. Number of aircraft - You should have the max aircraft available in the squadron for maximum rate of exp gain.
2. The leader - specifically the Leadership of the leader should be greater than the exp of all the pilots training in the group. To save PP, move the pilots, not the leader.
3. The group experience bonus - the reason for putting a few good pilots in the group is that they raise the group's average experience. If a pilot is below the group's average experience, they gain skill and exp faster.
4. The presence of 81+ skill pilots in the training group increases the rate of experience gain, but not as much as items 1-3 above do.

One thing I don't see anyone mention is pilot stratification. I stratify my pilots - I throw every pilot I have into the Reserve Pool and then pull them back into air groups by Exp. The effect of that is that I get the group exp bonus for all the trainees with a minimum number of advanced pilots. Note in the attached screenshot how every pilot is either 62 or 36 Exp (every pilot in the group is exp 62, 36, or 35). Every 36/35 pilot will get the group exp bonus when training. Compare that with an air group where pilots are loaded straight from the Replacement Pool, the range of pilots will range from about 28-40. It takes a lot more, and better, pilots to bring the average up so that all the trainee pilots get the group exp bonus.

Note by the way that all of the above bonuses are documented in the Pilot Management Addendum, C:\Matrix Games\War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition\Manuals\Pilot Management Addendum.pdf, Section 7. Training






Attachment (1)

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/25/2017 11:25:36 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

There was information having 1-2 pilots with good skill improves gains,


quote:

that was only ever just conjecture


Not conjecture. Check the Pilot Addendum. Whether or not it holds true today, I can only say that it appears so.


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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/26/2017 5:30:07 AM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: szmike
There was information having 1-2 pilots with good skill improves gains, but I don't know if it holds true with all the changes over the years.

The number of pilots and Exp of the pilots that are required varies. The key is that the high skill pilots raise the average experience of the unit. In my screenshot above, the numbers in the parenthesis above the skill heading are group averages. In that example, all the pilots below 38 Exp will get a bonus when training. The 6 x 62 exp pilots cause the group average (38) to be greater than the rest of the pilots in the squadron (35/36). All of the 35/36 Exp pilots will get a bonus when training.

Reports that suggest adding highly skilled pilots does not help in training are likely due to the fact that most players pull their pilots in from the replacement pool and take whatever they get.

Consider a squadron with 20 pilots drawn from replacements with the following Exp:

(27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 33, 34, 34, 35, 35, 35, 35, 36, 36, 38, 39).

Group Exp = 27 + 29 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 34 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 36 + 36 + 38 + 39=664
664 / 20 = 33 (fractions round down in virtually every calculation in WitP:AE)

Therefore, in that group the pilots with Exp = 27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32 will get a training bonus.

If I add a 70 skill pilot,

Group Exp = 27 + 29 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 34 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 36 + 36 + 38 + 39 + 70 = 734
734 / 21 = 34

Therefore, with the extra experienced pilot, the trainees with Exp = 27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 33 will get a training bonus.

If I add 2 x 70 skill pilots,

27 + 29 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 34 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 36 + 36 + 38 + 39 + 70 + 70 = 804
804 / 22 = 36

Therefore, with two experienced pilots, the trainees with Exp = 27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 33, 34, 34, 35, 35, 35, 35 will get a training bonus.

The problem is that anyone looking for those effects will be looking at a very small change in experience gain and conclude the bonus does not exist. In the example above, one experienced pilots gets precisely 1 pilot a bonus, while in the 2 pilot example, 7 pilots will get the bonus.

This is why I stratify my pilots. Consider the same example with all 35 skill pilots:

20 x 35 = 700
700/20 = 35 group Exp

20 x 35 + 70 = 770 = 36
All pilots get bonus from one experienced (exp = 70) pilot.

The bigger the squadron, the less experienced the "good" pilots, the wider the gap between the most and least experienced trainees, the more "good" pilots you need to maximize the bonus.

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Post #: 22
RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/26/2017 9:37:04 AM   
ElvisDaKing


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey

quote:

ORIGINAL: szmike
There was information having 1-2 pilots with good skill improves gains, but I don't know if it holds true with all the changes over the years.

The number of pilots and Exp of the pilots that are required varies. The key is that the high skill pilots raise the average experience of the unit. In my screenshot above, the numbers in the parenthesis above the skill heading are group averages. In that example, all the pilots below 38 Exp will get a bonus when training. The 6 x 62 exp pilots cause the group average (38) to be greater than the rest of the pilots in the squadron (35/36). All of the 35/36 Exp pilots will get a bonus when training.

Reports that suggest adding highly skilled pilots does not help in training are likely due to the fact that most players pull their pilots in from the replacement pool and take whatever they get.

Consider a squadron with 20 pilots drawn from replacements with the following Exp:

(27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 33, 34, 34, 35, 35, 35, 35, 36, 36, 38, 39).

Group Exp = 27 + 29 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 34 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 36 + 36 + 38 + 39=664
664 / 20 = 33 (fractions round down in virtually every calculation in WitP:AE)

Therefore, in that group the pilots with Exp = 27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32 will get a training bonus.

If I add a 70 skill pilot,

Group Exp = 27 + 29 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 34 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 36 + 36 + 38 + 39 + 70 = 734
734 / 21 = 34

Therefore, with the extra experienced pilot, the trainees with Exp = 27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 33 will get a training bonus.

If I add 2 x 70 skill pilots,

27 + 29 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 34 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 35 + 36 + 36 + 38 + 39 + 70 + 70 = 804
804 / 22 = 36

Therefore, with two experienced pilots, the trainees with Exp = 27, 29, 29, 30, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 33, 34, 34, 35, 35, 35, 35 will get a training bonus.

The problem is that anyone looking for those effects will be looking at a very small change in experience gain and conclude the bonus does not exist. In the example above, one experienced pilots gets precisely 1 pilot a bonus, while in the 2 pilot example, 7 pilots will get the bonus.

This is why I stratify my pilots. Consider the same example with all 35 skill pilots:

20 x 35 = 700
700/20 = 35 group Exp

20 x 35 + 70 = 770 = 36
All pilots get bonus from one experienced (exp = 70) pilot.

The bigger the squadron, the less experienced the "good" pilots, the wider the gap between the most and least experienced trainees, the more "good" pilots you need to maximize the bonus.



Thanks
I didn t know about the training bonus
Does it apply on getting Experienve or also on increasing skills ?

I mean if I train pilots for Air skill and average Air skill pilot is 40 in the squadron, then all pilots with Air skill below 40 will get bonus ?


Currently I ve set up my IJN fighter pilots training as below
Recruits are sent to 2 x A5M4 training squadrons, resized 81 planes, to increasing their defensive skills : 100% Sweep training 100ft
It increases their defensive skill, but hardly Air skill and Experience
When they reach 60sh defensive skill, i send them to reserve pool
Then i send them from Reserve pool, filtering from highest Def skill, in 6 x F1M1 Pete squadrons, resized 24 airplanes, with 30% CAP / 70% Training.
When they reach 70sh Ait skill, then they are ready to join front line squadrons, so i send them back to pool
I am pulling out pilots from the Patrol reserve pool with highest Air skill.

For IJA management, it s a bit more complicated as no Patrol pilots pool, and have only Ki 27 squadrons for training (i am in May 1942 so don t have Ki-43 Ic to convert some training squadrons)
I need then to identify some Def skill training squadrons and some other Exp/Air training squadrons...

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Un Taxi pour Tobrouk

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/26/2017 12:37:09 PM   
Aurorus

 

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Many would consider using Akagi to resize air-groups to 81 "gamey." This is a very unrealistic size for an air-group. You can use Petes as fighter trainers and have a sufficient number of well-trained naval fighter pilots, if you do not over-produce A6M2s at the beginning of the game.

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RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/26/2017 12:39:49 PM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I don't think it was ever true - that was only ever just conjecture, and remains so.

I've run a pretty large set of sandbox tests on training and to this point I can tell you that ALL of the following affect the rate of pilot exp gain:

1. Number of aircraft - You should have the max aircraft available in the squadron for maximum rate of exp gain.
2. The leader - specifically the Leadership of the leader should be greater than the exp of all the pilots training in the group. To save PP, move the pilots, not the leader.
3. The group experience bonus - the reason for putting a few good pilots in the group is that they raise the group's average experience. If a pilot is below the group's average experience, they gain skill and exp faster.
4. The presence of 81+ skill pilots in the training group increases the rate of experience gain, but not as much as items 1-3 above do.

One thing I don't see anyone mention is pilot stratification. I stratify my pilots - I throw every pilot I have into the Reserve Pool and then pull them back into air groups by Exp. The effect of that is that I get the group exp bonus for all the trainees with a minimum number of advanced pilots. Note in the attached screenshot how every pilot is either 62 or 36 Exp (every pilot in the group is exp 62, 36, or 35). Every 36/35 pilot will get the group exp bonus when training. Compare that with an air group where pilots are loaded straight from the Replacement Pool, the range of pilots will range from about 28-40. It takes a lot more, and better, pilots to bring the average up so that all the trainee pilots get the group exp bonus.

Note by the way that all of the above bonuses are documented in the Pilot Management Addendum, C:\Matrix Games\War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition\Manuals\Pilot Management Addendum.pdf, Section 7. Training







As usual, Infinitemonkey, I find your posts to be well-informed and most helpful. This confirms, with some hard research, my anecdotal experience. Also, I never did the math necessary to fully appreciate the benefits of grouping pilots with like experience. Thank you for this helpful tip.

(in reply to InfiniteMonkey)
Post #: 25
RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/26/2017 1:46:07 PM   
ElvisDaKing


Posts: 130
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

Many would consider using Akagi to resize air-groups to 81 "gamey." This is a very unrealistic size for an air-group. You can use Petes as fighter trainers and have a sufficient number of well-trained naval fighter pilots, if you do not over-produce A6M2s at the beginning of the game.


I have only resized 2 groups of fighter, 1 group dive bomber and 1 torpedo bomber, and only for training purpose, and no other units especially if dedicated for frontline...

I can understand that resizing opetational LBA frontline sqiadrons can be questionnable and should be discussed with opponent, but cannot agree that it is 'gsmey',.

_____________________________

'To my point, in war, there s just one attractive thing : the victory Parade... What sucks, it s all the things before.... We should get the enlist payroll and do the parade right away, before that it get totally screwed up'
Un Taxi pour Tobrouk

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 26
RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/26/2017 3:34:39 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing
Does it apply on getting Experienve or also on increasing skills ?

I mean if I train pilots for Air skill and average Air skill pilot is 40 in the squadron, then all pilots with Air skill below 40 will get bonus ?

Honestly, I'm not sure. There is always a strong correlation between (Individual Pilot Exp vs Group Avg Exp) and rate of gain for both skills and Exp. The fact that skills seem correlated may simply be because there is a correlation between Exp and Skill for random pilots. I have not looked enough at group average skills versus individual pilot skill. However, I would tend to avoid grouping by skill level simply because skills change so quickly that keeping them close together would take micromanagement to a level I'm not interested in without computer support.

Additionally, the Pilot Management Addendum singles out Exp as the trigger for the bonus, even though it applies to skills and Exp both:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pilot Management Addendum.pdf, Section 7. Training

"if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less than the overall group experience level"

(in reply to ElvisDaKing)
Post #: 27
RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 6/27/2017 1:28:46 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 925
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

It's worth noting that when you pull a pilot from replacements, the pilots skills are generated based on the unit type. Later in the war, Allied pilot average skills (and XP) for replacement pools is at least around 40. If you're out of trained pilots for a unit type, it's better to just pull in from replacements than your cross-trained pilots as you mentioned above.

Example: Fighter pilot that had randomized general training for a while and has NavB/NavT skills in the 30s. Better to pull from Replacements(40), as the NavB/NavT will be about 40 in that case.


This is an excellent tutorial - my thanks <tips hat>

I have been a dutiful micro manager of "west coast training".. building up and then releasing pilots to "general reserve" with all those USAAF 4th squadrons, USMC, and even those all too few Naval Squadrons of i.e. Hellcats associated with SoPac that I can utilize for building reserves.

But your point above now informs me of the "why consequences down the road".

Pilot Training / TRACOM often come up as a newbie question.

Often the answer in this game is "it depends".

But you have clearly informed me of something important I missed in reading the manual and/or is a great addition to the library of newbie knowledge.

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 28
RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 1/23/2018 1:39:14 AM   
styer27

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 8/25/2010
Status: offline
Can someone please explain why my pilots list doesnt look like this, i have no options down the bottom to release pilots, or an option on the right to "RETAIN"

am i missing a patch or soemthing?

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 29
RE: Pilot Training : Defensive skill - 1/23/2018 3:04:40 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 3813
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline
Yep, you missed a patch.

Install the latest beta patch from here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3185062

Or the latest official patch from here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/351/downloads/

(in reply to styer27)
Post #: 30
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