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Prep Points - 6/11/2017 8:44:12 PM   
MrDave

 

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I don't understand the purpose of the "prep points", at least early in the timeline of the game. I play WiTW and understand how prep points help with the Amphib TF. I understand the mechanics of setting the target. I'm just not clear on how it helps in 1942 for instance.
I hope this is clearer than mud. Thanks.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/11/2017 8:56:18 PM   
btd64


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MrDave, Are you referring to Political points or Prep time for ground units? Political points(pp's) are used to Buy out restricted ground units and Air units. Or to just change HQ's for organizational reasons. Prep time on ground units helps to reduce losses during an amphibious attack or improve defense of a base or location. If you can provide info on the one your questioning, We can help better.....GP


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RE: Prep Points - 6/11/2017 9:55:51 PM   
MrDave

 

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Thanks General,
The points I am referring to are indeed the "prep points" when a target is set. What I'm not straight on is the benefit of setting a target when I'm not sure of what target will be, especially early in '42.
Thanks.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/11/2017 10:17:04 PM   
btd64


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I just set them to there own home base if I don't know where they will attack....GP

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RE: Prep Points - 6/11/2017 10:46:38 PM   
BBfanboy


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It takes a while to get in the habit, but at the start of the game you should think out a broad plan for how you expect to use your forces in the next 12 months. What will be your key bases you plan to defend at all costs, for example. Where will your supply distribution stockpiles be. Which avenue of attack will you use when you are on the offensive?.

Doing this planning will isolate the areas you need to prep troops for and you can then select which specific islands or bases you intend to put troops on.
Next step is to review the troops/planes you will have available during that time frame and allocate those that are already unrestricted.

After that, decide what more you need to secure your objectives and pick the restricted units you need to buy out. This is the most difficult task because PP are scarce, units are expensive and you need to pay for both land and air units. But buy them ASAP before they fill out - they are cheaper that way.

It may seem a lot of work to do such a plan but you can re-use it for future games and just tweak it here and there.

In the War Room you may find Kull's Allied and Japanese spreadsheets for setting up the first few turns very helpful.

EDIT: PS - review the plan after six months and adjust/extend the plan for the next phase of the war.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 6/11/2017 10:47:24 PM >


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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 8:52:29 AM   
GetAssista

 

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1. LCUs prepped for a base fight a bit better when inside that base. Good thing to know for more static theatres like China. Requires long term planning
2. LCUs with 100 prep start increasing their experience if it is lower than predetermined thresholds (roughly 50-55). Very important for the Allies in the early war with lots of inexperienced LCUs.
3. LCUs with not full prep suffer additional losses in amphib landings. Very important for Japan if it wants to continue expanding after the amphib bonus runs out in April 42.

Edit: corrected the amphib bonus date

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 6/12/2017 12:21:22 PM >

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 10:10:47 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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There's another reason behind the Prep Points feature, I think, even more important. Generic preparation for a landing should be enough, so why the need to get prepped and trained 100 in advance for Tarawa atoll rather than Wake atoll, for example?

I think this is the only way the designers and developers found to get knowledge of JApan's plans to be propagated through Sigint receptions.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 11:59:19 AM   
Uncivil Engineer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

1. LCUs prepped for a base fight a bit better when inside that base. Good thing to know for more static theatres like China. Requires long term planning
2. LCUs with 100 prep start increasing their experience if it is lower than predetermined thresholds (roughly 50-55). Very important for the Allies in the early war with lots of inexperienced LCUs.
3. LCUs with not full prep suffer additional losses in amphib landings. Very important for Japan if it wants to continue expanding after the amphib bonus runs out in July 42.


I thought the Japanese amphib bonus ran out in April '42 (120 days into the war)? See 6.3.3.3.2 Amphibious Unloading

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 12:20:19 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer
I thought the Japanese amphib bonus ran out in April '42 (120 days into the war)? See 6.3.3.3.2 Amphibious Unloading

Yep, right you are thanks for correction.
I guess I mixed it with the date many AK conversions become available

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 12:39:26 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

There's another reason behind the Prep Points feature, I think, even more important. Generic preparation for a landing should be enough, so why the need to get prepped and trained 100 in advance for Tarawa atoll rather than Wake atoll, for example?

I think this is the only way the designers and developers found to get knowledge of JApan's plans to be propagated through Sigint receptions.

I think it is because an amphib landing is not just the process of getting past obstacles and to the beach. Once on the beach the troops need to know where the enemy fortifications and terrain obstacles are, where their objectives are in relation to where they actually landed, what units will be nearby (for cooperation and to prevent friendly fire incidents), where the ammo dumps and food/water supplies will be, etc., etc.

So they have to study a lot of detail and then practice in similar terrain before they can be considered fully prepped. Then the Army/Marine administration will transfer out some key troops and the replacements need to be prepped ...

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 2:28:02 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

There's another reason behind the Prep Points feature, I think, even more important. Generic preparation for a landing should be enough, so why the need to get prepped and trained 100 in advance for Tarawa atoll rather than Wake atoll, for example?

I think this is the only way the designers and developers found to get knowledge of JApan's plans to be propagated through Sigint receptions.

I think it is because an amphib landing is not just the process of getting past obstacles and to the beach. Once on the beach the troops need to know where the enemy fortifications and terrain obstacles are, where their objectives are in relation to where they actually landed, what units will be nearby (for cooperation and to prevent friendly fire incidents), where the ammo dumps and food/water supplies will be, etc., etc.

So they have to study a lot of detail and then practice in similar terrain before they can be considered fully prepped. Then the Army/Marine administration will transfer out some key troops and the replacements need to be prepped ...



+1

Even on Atols and reefs you can land on the wrong beach opposite your objective. Get hung up on a reef. Your "left-tenent" gets killed - do the men carry on (disruption)?

While the game mechanism is a mechanism (with real consequences), I think it was designed to "represent" a lot more than SigInt intentions. Its an abstract of multiple things.

Just as Supplies represent more than toilet paper / ammo / bread.

I concur with the learning curve.

As you learn and experience the game you learn to focus both on the short term and (mid or) long term. Prepping Units / Divisions and staging them represents the ability to shift between the tactical and strategic.



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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 2:36:52 PM   
HansBolter


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Units sharing the same prepared target as an in range Corps/Army HQ and an in range Command HQ can gain significant combat bonuses from the HQs.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 6/12/2017 2:37:15 PM >


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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 5:54:48 PM   
jamesjohns

 

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On prep points, is there a rough time for how long it takes a unit to prep for a target? For example; How long does it take a division to be 100% or about how many prep points are gained per week? I am assuming the unit is at rest, in supply and full support.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 6:15:36 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesjohns

On prep points, is there a rough time for how long it takes a unit to prep for a target? For example; How long does it take a division to be 100% or about how many prep points are gained per week? I am assuming the unit is at rest, in supply and full support.


It depends on where they are starting from...

If from 0, about 60-75 days (some days they will gain 2 points, but will always gain at least 1 point per day). If from 25, about 50-60 days. If from 33, then about 45-50some days.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 6:26:52 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

There's another reason behind the Prep Points feature, I think, even more important. Generic preparation for a landing should be enough, so why the need to get prepped and trained 100 in advance for Tarawa atoll rather than Wake atoll, for example?

I think this is the only way the designers and developers found to get knowledge of JApan's plans to be propagated through Sigint receptions.

I think it is because an amphib landing is not just the process of getting past obstacles and to the beach. Once on the beach the troops need to know where the enemy fortifications and terrain obstacles are, where their objectives are in relation to where they actually landed, what units will be nearby (for cooperation and to prevent friendly fire incidents), where the ammo dumps and food/water supplies will be, etc., etc.

So they have to study a lot of detail and then practice in similar terrain before they can be considered fully prepped. Then the Army/Marine administration will transfer out some key troops and the replacements need to be prepped ...



That's stuff for staff members and from rank of colonel up only. Troop training is not dedicated to one specific location only of course. And it must not be.

No one under Colonel (full) rank is given any information about the final objective not in the slightest. Day before action officers are briefed. and then the troops.

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 6/12/2017 6:32:23 PM >

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 6:34:36 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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And nothing prevents really from shifting a target from another similar even at the 89th minute, if not the general plan of action in the hand of higher brass.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 8:45:46 PM   
MrDave

 

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LOL, I really need a staff to handle all these details. As far as the PPs go, I was just setting them as the General suggested. Apparently the PPs play a pretty big function.

I will have to check out Krulls spreadsheets. I really do appreciate all your insight. I have played the game years ago. But the AE has expanded the playability so much, it's like starting from scratch. The I just figured out the right command switches to get it to play on my laptop.

Am I the only guy who has started the game over and over after you have learned something new?

Thanks again gentlemen.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/12/2017 10:09:16 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDave

LOL, I really need a staff to handle all these details. As far as the PPs go, I was just setting them as the General suggested. Apparently the PPs play a pretty big function.

I will have to check out Krulls spreadsheets. I really do appreciate all your insight. I have played the game years ago. But the AE has expanded the playability so much, it's like starting from scratch. The I just figured out the right command switches to get it to play on my laptop.

Am I the only guy who has started the game over and over after you have learned something new?

Thanks again gentlemen.

We all had multiple restarts as we set out on the learning curve. After four or five you might decide you have not made any critical mistakes and can continue playing.

BTW, look for Kull, not Krull. I made the same mistake - thanks to a character in a Conan the Barbarian movie, I think.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/13/2017 12:36:40 PM   
bush

 

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I think you are thinking of Crom (Krom), the god his dad talked about in a beginning scene and later when the dogs chase Conan into a cave and he finds his sword.

Krull was an early 80's sci-fi movie. Actually not too bad.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/15/2017 12:23:30 PM   
Pentakomo

 

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A few days before full prepare of command HQ
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 99596 troops, 1173 guns, 1430 vehicles, Assault Value = 3738
Defending force 41860 troops, 981 guns, 1047 vehicles, Assault Value = 682
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3
Japanese adjusted assault: 4008
Allied adjusted defense: 2725

And when command HQ reach 100% preparation
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 99851 troops, 1171 guns, 1439 vehicles, Assault Value = 3717
Defending force 38447 troops, 942 guns, 1011 vehicles, Assault Value = 473
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2
Japanese adjusted assault: 7447
Allied adjusted defense: 763

< Message edited by Pentakomo -- 6/15/2017 12:26:09 PM >

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RE: Prep Points - 6/15/2017 2:56:39 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

That's stuff for staff members and from rank of colonel up only. Troop training is not dedicated to one specific location only of course. And it must not be.

No one under Colonel (full) rank is given any information about the final objective not in the slightest. Day before action officers are briefed. and then the troops.


Except you'd be completely wrong here. There are myriad films of the era showing troops, down to privates, being briefed with aerial photos, sand tables, and 3-D models of actual defensive emplacements before landings.

My issue with the prep system is not its existence; that's history. It's how long it takes to prep a landing. Three months is excessive. That was a game design decision.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/15/2017 5:09:52 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pentakomo

A few days before full prepare of command HQ
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 99596 troops, 1173 guns, 1430 vehicles, Assault Value = 3738
Defending force 41860 troops, 981 guns, 1047 vehicles, Assault Value = 682
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3
Japanese adjusted assault: 4008
Allied adjusted defense: 2725

And when command HQ reach 100% preparation
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 99851 troops, 1171 guns, 1439 vehicles, Assault Value = 3717
Defending force 38447 troops, 942 guns, 1011 vehicles, Assault Value = 473
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2
Japanese adjusted assault: 7447
Allied adjusted defense: 763


The Command HQ is not necessarily the difference here. If you did 2 tests of the first attack, one of them with the Command HQ prepped and in range while the other without it prepped, you could compare them.

But the second attack here is against lower forts and Japanese units that have clearly degraded since the first attack. You can't really compare them.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/16/2017 6:30:05 AM   
Barb


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100 days (or so it takes to fully prepare a unit from 0 prep) or 75 days (switching target from 100 prep to another) is a bit excessive when compared to real experiences.
E.G. Battle of Saipan officially ended on 19th July - 2nd and 4th Marine Divisions were in the thick of it.
Battle of Tinian started on 24th July - by landing 4th Marine Division, 2nd Marine Division followed a day later

Sometimes the reserve troops were directed to another landing sites once the main landing was going succesfully. Having a regiment fully prepped for say Roi-Namur as reserve diverted to land at Eniwetok a day or two after switching the preparation would result in massive disablements for the said regiment in game. IRL, it was more of a question of pre-operation planning and preparation for contingencies - carrying charts, maps and photos of both the main target and alternative.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/16/2017 1:27:18 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

That's stuff for staff members and from rank of colonel up only. Troop training is not dedicated to one specific location only of course. And it must not be.

No one under Colonel (full) rank is given any information about the final objective not in the slightest. Day before action officers are briefed. and then the troops.


Except you'd be completely wrong here. There are myriad films of the era showing troops, down to privates, being briefed with aerial photos, sand tables, and 3-D models of actual defensive emplacements before landing
My issue with the prep system is not its existence; that's history. It's how long it takes to prep a landing. Three months is excessive. That was a game design decision.



maybe just immediately prior to landing - or onboard final target bounded, isolated from mainland and chatting- but not earlier by any extent

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 6/16/2017 1:32:29 PM >

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RE: Prep Points - 6/16/2017 2:52:23 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


maybe just immediately prior to landing - or onboard final target bounded, isolated from mainland and chatting- but not earlier by any extent


You're moving your goalposts from up-thread.

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RE: Prep Points - 6/27/2017 8:50:11 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58




You're moving your goalposts from up-thread.


I'm afraid I have not understood..

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RE: Prep Points - 6/28/2017 12:30:50 PM   
morganbj


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

There's another reason behind the Prep Points feature, I think, even more important. Generic preparation for a landing should be enough, so why the need to get prepped and trained 100 in advance for Tarawa atoll rather than Wake atoll, for example?

I think this is the only way the designers and developers found to get knowledge of JApan's plans to be propagated through Sigint receptions.

I think it is because an amphib landing is not just the process of getting past obstacles and to the beach. Once on the beach the troops need to know where the enemy fortifications and terrain obstacles are, where their objectives are in relation to where they actually landed, what units will be nearby (for cooperation and to prevent friendly fire incidents), where the ammo dumps and food/water supplies will be, etc., etc.

So they have to study a lot of detail and then practice in similar terrain before they can be considered fully prepped. Then the Army/Marine administration will transfer out some key troops and the replacements need to be prepped ...



That's stuff for staff members and from rank of colonel up only. Troop training is not dedicated to one specific location only of course. And it must not be.

No one under Colonel (full) rank is given any information about the final objective not in the slightest. Day before action officers are briefed. and then the troops.

Well, this is not exactly true.

When time permits, troops are "rehearsed" over similar terrain, and at similar times of day as the expected operation. Yes, the troops will not know the NAME of the place, nor where exactly it is, but they will know, for example, that they will have to scale cliffs, or struggle through surf, if those things are already known by the intelligence officers and higher command.

The problem is always the unexpected, e.g., the inability to get to the beach at Tarawa. The depth of the surf was just incorrectly estimated so the Marines had to wade through the surf to get ashore.

But, having spent many years in the Army, I can guarantee you that we rehearsed whenever we could over very similar terrain and similar times of day. (Weather was always a confounding variable, though.) We also trained for contingencies: those things that might go wrong. Small operations were easier to train for in this manner, but a lot could be done with larger ops as well. Read about the training for the Normandy landings.

And another thing to remember, when embarked, there was little reason in those days to worry about who knew what, as there was virtually no way to communicate off ship. So, telling the troops and sailors where they were going and what they were to do was normally preferable. In the Pacific, they might be embarked for a week, maybe more, giving them quite a bit of time to look at maps, terrain boards, and the like.

Prep ALWAYS helps in real life, as does experience. What I hated was getting a written op order two hours before operation start, when the division staff had known about the operation for several days. That was a recipe for disaster. An alert order would have been nice, but hey, it's the military. FUBAR was the motto.



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RE: Prep Points - 6/28/2017 3:24:18 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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The point, BJ, is that it does not make a lot of difference being diverted to a different, though much similar, target a few days before - after you've already fully prepped, rehearsed,and trained;

for the purpose of getting intelligence of real Japanese plans though, that's yes relevant.

exactly the example you brought up: do you think it may have made big difference for the troops training being diverted from Utah beach to, let's say, Calais area a week, or less, in advance (apart for the carnage and bloodhshed this would have ensued)?

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