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Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/11/2017 11:17:00 AM   
PresterJohn001


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline
Hi,
So I’m looking to start another game, Japan Scenario 2 (first time with scen 2) and thought I’d take some advice on my air production plans…:

Army Air: (40)
Oscar : 2x30 building, no research
Tojo: 3x30 building, no research:
Tony : 1x30 building, 6 x30 research ? more
Frank : 10x30 research
Nick: 2x30 building, no research
Peggy (T) : 3x30 research
Ki-45 NF : 2 x30 research (nightfighter)
Ki-115a : 3X30 research (kami)
Ki-94 : 5x 30 research (late war)

Navy Air: (42)
Rufe : 3x30 research – 2 advanced to a6m5
A6m2 : 3x 30 building
A6m3 : 6x30 research
A7m2 : 5x30 research
George : 6 x 30 research - main midwar land based navy fighter
Jack: 2x30 research/build
Judy : 3x30 research
Jill : 3x30 research
P1Y2 Frances NF : 3 x 30 research (nightfighter)
Shinden : 5 x 30 research (late war)
Toka 3x30 research (kami)

? need Frances (3 x 30)

More / less?!

I like the George, but Jack comes earlier, maybe swap those around to help as i won't be accelerating the Tojo's

any suggestions welcome, be nice !

< Message edited by PresterJohn -- 6/11/2017 11:21:58 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/11/2017 12:30:17 PM   
PresterJohn001


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline
is there a speadsheet that allows calculation for when aircraft will become available - taking repair and research time in to effect? eg when could i get a frank, if i say put 20 factories (x30) on it?

(in reply to PresterJohn001)
Post #: 2
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/12/2017 4:40:41 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9748
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
Just got to June '42 in BTS Lite. For early '42 planes, I just built them up to production numbers vs the 30 R&D size. So, I have 60 Nick (1 factory) and 120 Tojo (2x 60 factories). These will come in mid-June as I'm getting 4 points per day. Rather than wait another 2 to 3 months for repairs be completed as you get the Tojo, I get decent production right away.

I have a few of the mid to late war fighters with significant R&D efforts have a handful at size 60 vs 30 for the same reason. Some have more than 2 to 3x repaired vs the smaller size 30 factories. Go figure!

_____________________________


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Post #: 3
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/12/2017 7:00:05 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25212
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
I like the George, but Jack comes earlier, maybe swap those around to help as i won't be accelerating the Tojo's


With the early war research ground path already laid out for the Tojo IIc, I am a big fan of accelerating it. I use less of the Nick (content with 1x30). I also upgrade the research path for the Oscar IIa, b, III and IV, since the original models are already in research and it's easy to upgrade research on these models.

I like speeding the research for the Tony models to get to the -100 early, as this can be a welcome adjunct to the Franks.

10x30 for the Frank-a seems heavy to me. What percentage of those do you plan on continuing to the -r version versus entering production?

Navy:

Why 6x30 for the A6M3? I'd put that into A6M5 via the Rufe or the Sam. I'd skimp on the Shinden and the Toka, as you are unlikely to find benefit from these end war models relative to their research costs.

Good luck!

_____________________________


(in reply to PresterJohn001)
Post #: 4
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/12/2017 7:06:09 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1794
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline
30 is "magic number" only for research purposes, because for researching more, than one point per day, you need something like 200-300 in one "research factory". You can safely increase your production, once research is over.
And I am not sure, anyone have any special luck with TOKA.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

is there a speadsheet that allows calculation for when aircraft will become available - taking repair and research time in to effect? eg when could i get a frank, if i say put 20 factories (x30) on it?


Years ago, someone did this test. I vaguely recall it involved e number, but conclusion was, that you can roughly bet, that your "Research factories" would be fully repaired in around 2/3 time left for plane entering production (so, if your plane would be available in 12 months, factories should be repaired after 8 months, giving you 4 months of research, and with single 30 points factory, that would accelerate your plane for less, than single month).

(in reply to PresterJohn001)
Post #: 5
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/12/2017 7:09:39 PM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline
PDU:on or off? Do you have a house rule or personal prohibition against skipping steps? What is your plan for victory: go for an early auto-victory or play for the long-game and win by running out the game clock?

(in reply to PresterJohn001)
Post #: 6
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 2:45:19 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9367
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

Hi,
So I’m looking to start another game, Japan Scenario 2 (first time with scen 2) and thought I’d take some advice on my air production plans…:

Army Air: (40)
Oscar : 2x30 building, no research
Tojo: 3x30 building, no research:
Tony : 1x30 building, 6 x30 research ? more
Frank : 10x30 research
Nick: 2x30 building, no research
Peggy (T) : 3x30 research
Ki-45 NF : 2 x30 research (nightfighter)
Ki-115a : 3X30 research (kami)
Ki-94 : 5x 30 research (late war)

Navy Air: (42)
Rufe : 3x30 research – 2 advanced to a6m5
A6m2 : 3x 30 building
A6m3 : 6x30 research
A7m2 : 5x30 research
George : 6 x 30 research - main midwar land based navy fighter
Jack: 2x30 research/build
Judy : 3x30 research
Jill : 3x30 research
P1Y2 Frances NF : 3 x 30 research (nightfighter)
Shinden : 5 x 30 research (late war)
Toka 3x30 research (kami)

? need Frances (3 x 30)

More / less?!

I like the George, but Jack comes earlier, maybe swap those around to help as i won't be accelerating the Tojo's)

any suggestions welcome, be nice !

As Aurorus noted: PDU ON? or OFF? BIFG difference. Assuming PDU ON, then:

I tend to research only a few models, with focus to get them early. Overall, you have too many RnD factories, not enough production. You will struggle in '42 with only 5 (2xOscar, 3xA6Mactive fighter factories.

Then I choose 2 - 4 other models to research. 10xKi-84 is not too much. I do 12 -15 on it. Why? I know end game I will want +500/mo. so 15x30 = 450 which means I will still need build out after I hit my final model.
Then 15x30 is going to give me the Frank in '43 ... having the Frank in mid43 in NUMBERS totally mitigates the allies TBolt.
Now, when I say RnD, that does not count building factories in advance for production. EX: 2xKi-45 isn't RnD as no advance will likely occur (or if any, it is negligible) and 60/mo of that model in production is a prudent number, so you have not overbuilt.

If you go big on Frank, you can't also go big on Tony, you need to choose one. The result on the Tony would be similar though; you get it in mid-43.

Yes, choose George or Jack. They are not identical, but they are too similar to RnD both. Jack is better interceptor. George is better Escort. choose how you will be fighting MOSTLY. Neither is a bad choice, just different flavors.

Committing 3x30 each to Jill/Judy ... you will not get these any faster (of consequence) with this. I would build 2x30 each and when they arrive, build the factories up to whatever run rates you need then. That gives you more factories to RnD with at the cost of slower replacement of Judy/Jill when you get them.
This isn't generally a problem for me because in early '43 I will NOT take on the allies and they generally will not come out to play as they are just getting Hellcats and need to May43 or so to have enough to equip all of their groups.

Late War fighters (94/A7M/et al) 5x30 is a waste of factories. You will only advance a few months with this. By that time, you can't build any more and simply put 150/mo of a fighter will only feed 3 groups (maybe) ... 3. Don't waste time/effort for 3 groups. Either go big, or just wait. Choose only 1. If you choose 2, then you have to give up a mid-war plane.



_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to PresterJohn001)
Post #: 7
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 3:54:49 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 6173
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
Nice Pax. A couple of things. One, in your considerations are you counting engine bonuses for A/C advancement. Two, in what time frame are you completing your R&D factory builds. IOW, when are you R&D factories raised to 30, not repaired, but the expenditure to get to 30. For me in my current AI game I managed to get all 70 something done by June. Of course early war planes completed earlier and later war models in succession.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 8
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 4:26:57 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9367
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Nice Pax. A couple of things. One, in your considerations are you counting engine bonuses for A/C advancement. Two, in what time frame are you completing your R&D factory builds. IOW, when are you R&D factories raised to 30, not repaired, but the expenditure to get to 30. For me in my current AI game I managed to get all 70 something done by June. Of course early war planes completed earlier and later war models in succession.

In some cases, yes.

I get current build factories first of course (A6M, Oscar, Kate, etc). Then I have my priorities for RnD. I build them out to 30 one at a time keeping a minimum stock of supply ... exactly when I finish is dictated by how much supply I need to ship out to support ops. Engines generally are HIGH priority, they get setup first with the current production, and the RnD engine factories (Ha-43, Ha-45) get built built BEFORE the aircraft ...

Engine bonus depends upon the model ... Actual arrival date depends upon a LOT of things, including (but not limited to) luck. I keep it vague on purpose ... mid43 for the Frank with 15x30 is not a rare event ... now where in mid43 that gets into the luck part. Still , point is you get it before the allies have the TBolt in numbers. You can leave 10x30 RnD on the 'r' model, advancing it 3 months every month (no engine bonus) which means early 44 for the 'r' model, and still be building 150/month before expansion of the 'a' model ... enough to equip and support 6 groups to start and more as you expand. By mid '44, you have enough to equip all of your front line groups with Frank 'r' ... and you have no worries about over build (within reason) as this is an end game aircraft.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 6/13/2017 4:37:44 AM >


_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 9
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 5:03:57 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 6173
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I build them out to 30 one at a time keeping a minimum stock of supply ... exactly when I finish is dictated by how much supply I need to ship out to support ops.


Of, course. Although I may have denied some ops a bit causing some delays. OK, in an AI game, but I'm afraid it won't cut it PBEM.

Like all your arrangements, and looks better than some of my choices in retrospect. One thing I disagree with is the Frank r. Why this over the Frank b? I believe the 'b' is better because it packs 4 20mm, two of which are CL. The 'r' has HMG's in those slots. The 'b' comes 3/45, the 'r' 9/45, getting the 'b' even earlier.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 10
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 6:53:31 AM   
PresterJohn001


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline
A couple of quick replies before i head off to work, yes its PDU on. I was planning for the full war, not an auto vivtory and i don't like skipping steps, don't have a house rule per se but it doesn't sit quite right with me.

A6m3 research rather than Rufe a6m5, because i wanted to try it, my other ongoing game i went Rufe, a6m5 and the a6m2 struggled a bit much, so was going to see if the a6m3 works better. I also really like the range on the a6m3a :)

This is also the reason for suggesting Tony rather than Tojo for research, current game = lots of Tojo's. Variety !

< Message edited by PresterJohn -- 6/13/2017 6:54:28 AM >

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 11
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 7:08:21 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14026
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

Hi,
So I’m looking to start another game, Japan Scenario 2 (first time with scen 2) and thought I’d take some advice on my air production plans…:

Army Air: (40)
Oscar : 2x30 building, no research
Tojo: 3x30 building, no research:
Tony : 1x30 building, 6 x30 research ? more
Frank : 10x30 research
Nick: 2x30 building, no research
Peggy (T) : 3x30 research
Ki-45 NF : 2 x30 research (nightfighter)
Ki-115a : 3X30 research (kami)
Ki-94 : 5x 30 research (late war)

Navy Air: (42)
Rufe : 3x30 research – 2 advanced to a6m5
A6m2 : 3x 30 building
A6m3 : 6x30 research
A7m2 : 5x30 research
George : 6 x 30 research - main midwar land based navy fighter
Jack: 2x30 research/build
Judy : 3x30 research
Jill : 3x30 research
P1Y2 Frances NF : 3 x 30 research (nightfighter)
Shinden : 5 x 30 research (late war)
Toka 3x30 research (kami)

? need Frances (3 x 30)

More / less?!

I like the George, but Jack comes earlier, maybe swap those around to help as i won't be accelerating the Tojo's

any suggestions welcome, be nice !


You've left out Ki-83 which is a game changer late war. I'd swap out the Ki-94 and research the slightly earlier Ki-83. The range and speed allow some unexpected offensive opportunities late.

You're building too many A6M overall. Think about what is the least that will get you through to the Sam. You won't need them much for land based groups, and for escorts just use the previous models with longer range once you get to the A6M5c and A6M8. Those two are the only ones that can hang at all mid-war. You need Sam by 44, which is tough, but that will really improve your late results and any use of KB you still have left. Put way more into the Sam.

I am an Oscar fan. It's an incredibly versatile plane. Fragile yes, but you can get a decent long range plane with good guns by mid-44 with the last model. Plus, in a low CAP defence model it's the best at making sweepers miss and letting your Franks and Georges dive in. I've been seeing on th eAllied side how good they are early in an escort role as well making fighters spend ammo and ops while dog-fighting, usually missing them as they turn, and ending up getting bombers through.

So it's an easy road and researching it for the critical late mid-game is definitely better than investing in a lot of planes you'll only be lucky to see by early 45.

I like building the George and the Jack. The service 2 models are indispensable in the mid-war. The J2M5 is an excellent interceptor late.

Too many P1Y2-S NF. This is decent. Not much different than the Irvings that come before, just more durable. The Irving with radar saved my bacon in the late war for a while.

Not a big Toka fan. I'd build more Judys by researching up the line to the 800kg bomb model and use your training groups for training. The range of the Toka and other late war kami planes is restrictive. I'd rather have Judy/Jill/Grace plus the 2E Peggy-T and Frances flying my kami missions.

If you plan to do anything late 42 yo'll need more Tojos. The sooner they come the better. The IIc works well into late 44, then is a rear CAP plane. The climb helps in numbers though.

WHERE IS THE GRACE!!!????

This is my favourite strike plane in game. It carries a torpedo and can fly off your CVs, has 10/13 range and carries 2 x 250kg bombs, so when they get through you have double the shot to hit something. YOU NEED THIS PLANE!!!

Take some off of the Jill, the P1Y2-S, the Toka and add 4 x B7A2 Grace.

Yes you'll want the Frances as well.

Did you forget the Helen for your IJAAF 2E groups or am I missing something? You have to make this plane.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PresterJohn001)
Post #: 12
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 7:39:52 AM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline
Hrmmm. sent a PM, but maybe I can link it here...

These are just for informational purposes:

A/C Type - I just use this to sort
Starting Research Aircraft Model - If you are skipping along a research line, this is the aircraft you are "researching" as you repair
Starting Engine - engine of the initial aircraft
Last Research Aircraft Model - If you are skipping along a research line, this is the aircraft you actually research. If you do not like the idea of skipping, jsut leave blank or enter the same model
Final Engine - teh engine of your target aircraft.

These affect or are the result of calculations:
Max Arrival Date - arrival date of your starting research aircraft
Research Start Date - the date you create damaged factory.
Max Days to Arrival - the number of days from the start date to the un-researched arrival date for aircraft.
Estimated to Repair Research Factories (days) - using info from another thread, approximately 63% of max days to arrival.
Estimated Research Factory Repair Date - the date the factory repairs (Research Start Date + Estimated to Repair Research Factories (days))
Last Model Arrival Date - the date the target aircraft arrives without research
Active Research Period (days) - number of days between Estimated Research Factory Repair Date and Last Model Arrival Date - calculation based upon the next 3 values entered.
Research Factories - number of factories researching
Factory Devices number of devices per factory (default 30)
Engine Bonus multiple (1 or 2 ) - if you will have engine bonus, enter 2. Otherwise, enter 1.
Days Accelerated - number of days it takes to accelerate
Adjusted Arrival Date - the day you will start producing your shiny new aircraft.


Hope this helps!


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by InfiniteMonkey -- 6/13/2017 7:40:52 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 12:41:43 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9367
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

I build them out to 30 one at a time keeping a minimum stock of supply ... exactly when I finish is dictated by how much supply I need to ship out to support ops.


Of, course. Although I may have denied some ops a bit causing some delays. OK, in an AI game, but I'm afraid it won't cut it PBEM.

Like all your arrangements, and looks better than some of my choices in retrospect. One thing I disagree with is the Frank r. Why this over the Frank b? I believe the 'b' is better because it packs 4 20mm, two of which are CL. The 'r' has HMG's in those slots. The 'b' comes 3/45, the 'r' 9/45, getting the 'b' even earlier.

I love the 'b', but it is not in the RnD line of the 'a' ... I've gone the 'b' route a few times. 2 challenges with it: you get it 6 months later than the 'a' at very best, and you get the 'r' a LOT later. It is a tough decision, but for me, the price is too high. I want something to fight the TBolts sooner, and the 'r' has unmatched altitude performance until the 94.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 14
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 12:46:45 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9367
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn

Hi,
So I’m looking to start another game, Japan Scenario 2 (first time with scen 2) and thought I’d take some advice on my air production plans…:

Army Air: (40)
Oscar : 2x30 building, no research
Tojo: 3x30 building, no research:
Tony : 1x30 building, 6 x30 research ? more
Frank : 10x30 research
Nick: 2x30 building, no research
Peggy (T) : 3x30 research
Ki-45 NF : 2 x30 research (nightfighter)
Ki-115a : 3X30 research (kami)
Ki-94 : 5x 30 research (late war)

Navy Air: (42)
Rufe : 3x30 research – 2 advanced to a6m5
A6m2 : 3x 30 building
A6m3 : 6x30 research
A7m2 : 5x30 research
George : 6 x 30 research - main midwar land based navy fighter
Jack: 2x30 research/build
Judy : 3x30 research
Jill : 3x30 research
P1Y2 Frances NF : 3 x 30 research (nightfighter)
Shinden : 5 x 30 research (late war)
Toka 3x30 research (kami)

? need Frances (3 x 30)

More / less?!

I like the George, but Jack comes earlier, maybe swap those around to help as i won't be accelerating the Tojo's

any suggestions welcome, be nice !


You've left out Ki-83 which is a game changer late war. I'd swap out the Ki-94 and research the slightly earlier Ki-83. The range and speed allow some unexpected offensive opportunities late.

You're building too many A6M overall. Think about what is the least that will get you through to the Sam. You won't need them much for land based groups, and for escorts just use the previous models with longer range once you get to the A6M5c and A6M8. Those two are the only ones that can hang at all mid-war. You need Sam by 44, which is tough, but that will really improve your late results and any use of KB you still have left. Put way more into the Sam.

I am an Oscar fan. It's an incredibly versatile plane. Fragile yes, but you can get a decent long range plane with good guns by mid-44 with the last model. Plus, in a low CAP defence model it's the best at making sweepers miss and letting your Franks and Georges dive in. I've been seeing on th eAllied side how good they are early in an escort role as well making fighters spend ammo and ops while dog-fighting, usually missing them as they turn, and ending up getting bombers through.

So it's an easy road and researching it for the critical late mid-game is definitely better than investing in a lot of planes you'll only be lucky to see by early 45.

I like building the George and the Jack. The service 2 models are indispensable in the mid-war. The J2M5 is an excellent interceptor late.

Too many P1Y2-S NF. This is decent. Not much different than the Irvings that come before, just more durable. The Irving with radar saved my bacon in the late war for a while.

Not a big Toka fan. I'd build more Judys by researching up the line to the 800kg bomb model and use your training groups for training. The range of the Toka and other late war kami planes is restrictive. I'd rather have Judy/Jill/Grace plus the 2E Peggy-T and Frances flying my kami missions.

If you plan to do anything late 42 yo'll need more Tojos. The sooner they come the better. The IIc works well into late 44, then is a rear CAP plane. The climb helps in numbers though.

WHERE IS THE GRACE!!!????

This is my favourite strike plane in game. It carries a torpedo and can fly off your CVs, has 10/13 range and carries 2 x 250kg bombs, so when they get through you have double the shot to hit something. YOU NEED THIS PLANE!!!

Take some off of the Jill, the P1Y2-S, the Toka and add 4 x B7A2 Grace.

Yes you'll want the Frances as well.

Did you forget the Helen for your IJAAF 2E groups or am I missing something? You have to make this plane.

As you can see, there is no exact consensus, but still a lot of similarity. Eric is a really good player so take his thoughts carefully. They are all accurate, I just make different choices. If you ahve read his AAR's, then you know that these decisions will also work.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 15
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/13/2017 5:48:10 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 353
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline
My responses are from the perspective of Scenario 1, so if there are variations in scenario 2, then ...
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Army Air: (40)
Oscar : 2x30 building, no research

The Oscar becomes my primary escort fighter as soon as I get the Ki-43-IIb, so I build more as ablative armor for my bombers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Tony : 1x30 building, 6 x30 research ? more

With or without skipping, I do not build the Tony at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Frank : 10x30 research

Limited ROI after 5 or 6 factories does not move the needle that much. If you want 300 per month, then that's okay. However, I only research with 5-7.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Nick: 2x30 building, no research

I build more of these. With PDU on, every IJN light bomber can be switched to this. Aside from the range of the Ki-48 and the load/range of the Ki-21, this plane is superior IMO to all other IJN early war bombers. I stop production of all Ki-30/32/36/48/51 and convert them all/most of the air groups to Ki-45 KAIa when it becomes available. The Nick's 340 mph, 7 range, 1200 load, ARMOR, 36 Dur, a CL 20mm cannon and 2 x CL 12.7mm are superior to all of them. With the right pilots, they can fly CAP early in the war. Late war, they compare reasonably to the Ki-115. Their payload is a bit less, and the 2 engines are an extra VP, but the armor, durability, and maneuver means they are harder to bring down.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
Shinden : 5 x 30 research (late war)

I do not research this plane at all. No range is a big negative for me. If I'm going for something that late war, I'm going for the Ki-83 or one of the jets.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
You've left out Ki-83 which is a game changer late war. I'd swap out the Ki-94 and research the slightly earlier Ki-83. The range and speed allow some unexpected offensive opportunities late.

Totally agree. The Ki-83 is my late war r&d aircraft.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
You're building too many A6M overall.

Also totally agree. You should have 1 factory producing the A6M. If you do not plan to skip or house rules do not allow it, then just switch the factories to the next model as one gets researched. Let your Production factories switch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
Think about what is the least that will get you through to the Sam. You won't need them much for land based groups, and for escorts just use the previous models with longer range once you get to the A6M5c and A6M8. Those two are the only ones that can hang at all mid-war. You need Sam by 44, which is tough, but that will really improve your late results and any use of KB you still have left. Put way more into the Sam.

I'm not as much of a Sam fan, simply because I do not expect it to have carriers to fly off of and there are better land based planes (George).

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
I am an Oscar fan. It's an incredibly versatile plane. Fragile yes, but you can get a decent long range plane with good guns by mid-44 with the last model. Plus, in a low CAP defence model it's the best at making sweepers miss and letting your Franks and Georges dive in. I've been seeing on th eAllied side how good they are early in an escort role as well making fighters spend ammo and ops while dog-fighting, usually missing them as they turn, and ending up getting bombers through.

Also totally agree. I think the Ki-43IIb is a better escort fighter than the A6M line and only gets better as you get the Ki-43IIIa and Ki-43-IV.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
I like building the George and the Jack. The service 2 models are indispensable in the mid-war. The J2M5 is an excellent interceptor late.

I prefer the idea of picking one of the two and going with only one of them. With PDU on, you want to focus down to a handful of models. Simplifies logistics, engine production, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
Not a big Toka fan. I'd build more Judys by researching up the line to the 800kg bomb model and use your training groups for training. The range of the Toka and other late war kami planes is restrictive. I'd rather have Judy/Jill/Grace plus the 2E Peggy-T and Frances flying my kami missions.

Also agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
If you plan to do anything late 42 yo'll need more Tojos. The sooner they come the better. The IIc works well into late 44, then is a rear CAP plane. The climb helps in numbers though.

I do not disagree that the Tojo is a vital gap aircraft, but I think over-committing to it can be a mistake. If you do not plan to accelerate it, then use only 1 factory and build it BIG. 1x90, not 3x30. 3x30 diversifies your risk in a bombing campaign, but I want 1x90 Tojo and 2 x 30 late war fighter. You should plan to relegate the Tojo to rear area CAP/training/etc. late game anyway. I'd rather they destroy my Tojo plant than a more capable aircraft.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
WHERE IS THE GRACE!!!????

This is my favourite strike plane in game. It carries a torpedo and can fly off your CVs, has 10/13 range and carries 2 x 250kg bombs, so when they get through you have double the shot to hit something. YOU NEED THIS PLANE!!!

Take some off of the Jill, the P1Y2-S, the Toka and add 4 x B7A2 Grace.

I try to focus my attention on only a few late war aircraft. Fully utilizing your research factories costs you A LOT of supply and engines. I prefer to accelerate more selectively. IMO get rid of the Ki-115a completely and replace with the Grace if you want. The Ki-115a's only virtue is 800kg bombs. Aside from 2 engines and payload, the Ki-45 KAIa is similar or superior in every other respect, including range.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PresterJohn
Yes you'll want the Frances as well.

Did you forget the Helen for your IJAAF 2E groups or am I missing something? You have to make this plane.

IMO, you should be making choices to focus your production, not just get some models faster and ignoring mid-war aircraft in favor of late war makes the late war come much sooner. I research the Helen before the Peggy.

Some general notes:
There are severely diminishing returns from large numbers of research facilities of size 30. One thing you learn plugging numbers into that spreadsheet is that the incremental improvement of research factories after 5 or 6 is very limited for the supply and HI investments. You get more chances for lucky rolls and more chances to recover from unlucky rolls, but the cost is extreme for the benefit.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 16
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/15/2017 9:47:53 AM   
Pentakomo

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 11/13/2014
Status: offline
My way to RD japanese planes for Scen 2.

(in reply to InfiniteMonkey)
Post #: 17
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/17/2017 2:13:53 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 6173
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I love the 'b', but it is not in the RnD line of the 'a'


Yup, thought of that right after I signed off last time. Essentially the reason I split my Frank R&D, and that's essentially where my choices vary from yours. Well pretty much anyway. May have been a mistake, we'll see. I do have a plan in mind to get them both PDQ, if it works.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Pentakomo)
Post #: 18
RE: Japanese Air Production Plan - 6/24/2017 9:06:30 AM   
PresterJohn001


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline
So have read and re-jigged !

Production
Oscar 90 - escorts
Tojo 90 - CAP
Tony 30
Nick 60-80 light bomber
Helen 50

r&d
Frank a 12 x30
Jack 7 x30
Judy 2 x30
Jill 2 x30
Rufe 3 x20 - a6m5 line
A6m3 2 x30
Grace 4 x30
ki 83 7 x30

Nightfighters
Nick 2 x30
Irving 3 x30 - s then sa leaving 1 factory for production

Peggy (t) 3 x30
Frances 3 x30

+ lots Jakes
Transports and Big Float Planes small numbers

Netties - try to leave as they are

Late 42 might be a scrape, but the Jack hopefully arrives early 43 and the Frank mid ish 43

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 19
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