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A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs

 
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A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/9/2017 8:10:53 AM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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I know that it costs 2 MPs for roadbound equipment such as trucks to move through open hexes in TOAW but armoured cars and vehicles like Sdkfz 251 spends only 1 MP moving through them. I know they have off-road capacity but their on-road speed is faster. Shouldn't this be simulated in the game? For example, in SPWW2 off-road movement for any vehicles(including tanks) costs 2 MPs even though in they move through clear/open hexes. Sorry for my english btw.
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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/10/2017 8:26:17 AM   
ncc1701e


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Well, I think this is to simulate that off-road vehicules are moving with more ease than trucks.
You will find also that trucks are carrying much more than they could in really.

The equipment editor may help you to change these values but, for scenario balance, I won't change them personally.
But clearly, clear/Open hexes are an avenue of approach for off-road vehicules.

Cheers

(in reply to thecowboysmiles)
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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/10/2017 2:54:39 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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Note that in TOAW IV, there is an editor option to decrease the MP cost for motorized units moving down improved roads - below 1.

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/10/2017 8:00:26 PM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Well, I think this is to simulate that off-road vehicules are moving with more ease than trucks.
You will find also that trucks are carrying much more than they could in really.

The equipment editor may help you to change these values but, for scenario balance, I won't change them personally.
But clearly, clear/Open hexes are an avenue of approach for off-road vehicules.

Cheers


I know they move much faster than a truck but for example, sdkfz 251 has an maximum speed of 52 km/h on road but it's 21 km/h off-road. On open terrain its speed may be more than 21 km/h but most likely it'll still be less than 52 km/h. So I think it should cost more than 1 MP for moving through clear hexes. Most photos of German armoured columns from WW2 shows the vehicles moving through roads even there is clear terrain around them. The same MP for road/clear terrain doesn't stress the importance of roads.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Note that in TOAW IV, there is an editor option to decrease the MP cost for motorized units moving down improved roads - below 1.


That's great to hear. I think this should be set in by default, it would be more historical imo.

I also know that one hex of SPWW2 is equal to 50 metres, so most of the time an entire map equals to a single 5/10 km hex of a TOAW map. Is this scaling difference one of the reasons for this equality of MPs?

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/10/2017 9:43:40 PM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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Another example is Sdkfz 222, which is also modelled in the game. It has an on-road speed of 80 km/h, 40 km/h of off-road speed. At least vehicles like Sdkfz 222 should be roadbound. This would be more realistic.

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/12/2017 9:58:09 PM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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I know that I'm a bit obsessing but BTR 152 is also roadbound in the game while BA 20, an early Soviet armoured car is not roadbound. Is what I'm asking is pointless and stupid or is it just too much realism for a game?

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/14/2017 7:04:30 PM   
ncc1701e


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There is nothing stupid to try to improve the game and to add more realism. The question is, at this level (operational), does it matter a lot in what the game is trying to simulate.

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/16/2017 10:15:48 PM   
Rosseau

 

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Am playing Turning Point (Stalingrad) by Troy Ritter and had a question. Unlike WitE and Decisive Campaigns series (both good games), you cannot move all your units in TOAW each turn. Far from it. This sets TOAW apart as tough decisions will need to be made on what to do each turn.

I understand the concept of hard-fought battles or long moves eating up time. My question is, in the scenario editor is there some specific setting that "controls" actions per turn. In Turning Point, there are many units and not much time per turn, which makes it a great scenario. Wondering if that could be duplicated by a setting(s) in the editor?

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/16/2017 11:31:24 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Unlike WitE and Decisive Campaigns series (both good games), you cannot move all your units in TOAW each turn. Far from it.


Huh?

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/17/2017 2:34:34 AM   
Rosseau

 

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To be clearer, what settings in the scenario editor (half-day turns, etc.?) affect how much the player will be able to do in one turn?

In the Turning Point scenario, you must make hard choices as to what divisions to move/attack. However, I remember another scenario depicting Soviet counterattack at Stalingrad, and I was able to move or attack with many units each turn. I prefer the former. Thanks!

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/17/2017 4:04:52 AM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

To be clearer, what settings in the scenario editor (half-day turns, etc.?) affect how much the player will be able to do in one turn?

In the Turning Point scenario, you must make hard choices as to what divisions to move/attack. However, I remember another scenario depicting Soviet counterattack at Stalingrad, and I was able to move or attack with many units each turn. I prefer the former. Thanks!


I've never heard of Turning Point. Are you saying that it is a TOAW scenario? If so, I can only assume the designer of that scenario used a set of Events that constrain the release of most/all formations via Theater Options. That is certainly doable, but would be a rare exception.

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/17/2017 5:08:42 AM   
Rosseau

 

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I fear I am complicating the issue. I am not referring to constraining the release of units.

Scenario A (Turning Point) limits the player's turn to a few attacks or movements, and the turn is used up quickly.
Scenario B allows the player the time for many attacks and movements per turn.

What parameters in the scenario editor are adjusted to allow these two different results between scenarios? From memory, Scenario A and B had similar map scale, unit size and count, etc.

Thanks for your patience.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 12
RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/17/2017 3:04:07 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

I fear I am complicating the issue. I am not referring to constraining the release of units.


I think "confusing the issue" would be more accurate. Your original claim was:

"...you cannot move all your units in TOAW each turn."

So, I gather that's no longer the claim? Because only reserve/garrison mode prevents units from moving at all. If I understand you, it's now Movement Allowance that you want constrained?

quote:

Scenario A (Turning Point) limits the player's turn to a few attacks or movements, and the turn is used up quickly.
Scenario B allows the player the time for many attacks and movements per turn.

What parameters in the scenario editor are adjusted to allow these two different results between scenarios? From memory, Scenario A and B had similar map scale, unit size and count, etc.

Thanks for your patience.


I'm guessing they didn't have the same Time Scale. Turning Point must have a short Time Scale.


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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/17/2017 5:07:57 PM   
Lobster


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Turning Point is available for download from The Strategist. http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/scenarii/browse_scenario.php

2.5km, 1/2 day turns. It was made for TOAW Volume I and has not been updated since so I really don't know if it would function the same in TOAW3. I had Turning Point by SPI long ago.

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Post #: 14
RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/18/2017 1:21:16 AM   
Rosseau

 

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It's 148 turns and ends Nov. 1942. Part of the TOAW3_LegacyPack_V01-42 (400 scenarios). It might be 17 years old, but amazing it runs. I will try games with short time scales to see. Thanks!



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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/18/2017 2:24:02 AM   
r6kunz


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Hi Mike,
I went to The Strategist, downloaded Turning Point and had no joy in opening it in TOAW III or IV. Perhaps after TOAW IV is up and running you can see how it runs on IV and perhaps sharing.

Back to your original question, I too am rather confused by the limited movement/attacks. Maybe a limit to Movement Bias or some other parameter? Or as Bob Cross suggested, units have Formation Orders that do not allow the player to control them until a certain turn or event (i.e. Formation Order= "Static- Activate Turn 20", etc.)

Looking forward to your participation in TOAW IV.

Cheers,
Rob Kunz

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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/18/2017 5:56:43 PM   
r6kunz


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Hi Mike,
I was able to use Martin Goliath's TOAW Scenario Converter to convert Turning Point to TOAW III, and then opened and saved to TOAW IV.
Map Scale stated in Environment is 2.5 km/hex, but game scale stated on the game map = 400m. Half-day turns. I am running PO vs PO at the moment. All of the units on the map show movement allowance. Seems to be a workable scenario.
Cheers,
RAK
Turning Point

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Post #: 17
RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/18/2017 7:45:05 PM   
Rosseau

 

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What I like (as Axis) is choices between moving your southern forces (and reinforcements) to the north; sweeping away weaker Soviets in center you are already in contact with; or, assaulting the tougher southern city hexes. You can't do it all, and that presents the challenge.

I have not played enough TOAW3 scenarios, but in some, it seems you can do a LOT in one turn. And the answer appears to lie in the time scale used. So I appreciate everyone's answers.

(in reply to r6kunz)
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RE: A question regarding roadbound equipment and MPs - 6/20/2017 9:26:12 PM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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Yeah, 1 MP for roads/improved roads in SPWW2 is related to scale of the maps I guess as most of the maps is equal to one or two hexes of a TOAW map. Sorry for the late reply btw.

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