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Scenario 2 - 6/3/2017 11:05:10 AM   
PresterJohn001


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Is there a list somewhere of the differenes between 1 & 2?

thanks!
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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/3/2017 2:24:02 PM   
Chickenboy


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There is / was on this forum. Alas, my Google-fu search abilities on older related threads is weak. Can a Google-fu master come forth and produce? Any Argletonians?

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/3/2017 3:06:52 PM   
btd64


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Scen 2 adds some toys to the Japanese side. If you want to know what they are, your best bet is to look thru the editor for both scen and look for differences. I have not seen a list, but it does not mean that someone hasn't put one together....GP

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/3/2017 3:17:47 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton
I have not seen a list, but it does not mean that someone hasn't put one together....GP


It's been done well. I'm going to say 2-3 years ago. But I can't be arsed to put together the proper Google string search that works on this forum.

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/3/2017 3:20:08 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton
I have not seen a list, but it does not mean that someone hasn't put one together....GP


It's been done well. I'm going to say 2-3 years ago. But I can't be arsed to put together the proper Google string search that works on this forum.


Sounds like something I would like to see. My search skills are ok but right now time is limited....GP

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/3/2017 4:18:03 PM   
Chickenboy


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The Google-Fu is strong with this one! This is a place to start:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2343185

ETA: I resurrected the thread in the War Room subforum too.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 6/3/2017 4:22:12 PM >


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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/3/2017 5:01:33 PM   
PresterJohn001


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thank you sirs, the spelling of scenario without the c put my google fu off.

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/3/2017 6:57:26 PM   
BillBrown


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One thing I did not see was the pilot training, here are the numbers I have
Scenario 1
			1941		1942		1943		1944		1945
	IJ Army		195		185		615		615		615
	IJ Navy		150		150		480		480		480


Scenario 2
	IJ Army		320		310		815		1215		1615
	IJ Navy		320		290		680		680		880

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/3/2017 9:13:03 PM   
Lowpe


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Tanks! Way more tanks in Scen 2.

Fuel !

Industry is stronger I think substantially.

Plane and Engine factories!

Japan is seriously stronger...seriously.

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/4/2017 1:59:41 AM   
Chickenboy


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This also didn't spell out the prepositioning of supply and fuel that is quite advantageous to early Japanese war exploits in scenario 2. But I think it addresses the OP question and at least is a start on unit differences.

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/4/2017 3:45:56 AM   
crsutton


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My first full campaign (August 45) was scenario two. The real problem is that the scenario is quite front loaded for Japan and gives them a real shot at auto victory in 1942. Stockpiles are full with lots of supply and fuel on hand at the beginning. About four or five good front line divisions at start as well as more support. Production is ramped so that the Japanese player can reach peak production much faster. A few more ships as well. The Shinano comes on as a Taiho class carrier, There are some more DDs and a lot of other stuff. It really puts a grind on the Allied player who vs a competent Japanese player will be very hard pressed in 1942. Survive 1942 and you should be OK and have an easier time. By 1944, it does not matter too much.

One severe drawback for the Japanese is the over supply of pilots in training which takes huge bites out of Japanese supply. This is a real problem for Japan.

If I granted the scenario to a Japanese opponent who knows the game I would only do it if auto victory is off the table. Otherwise it can be pretty fun for the Allies.

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/4/2017 4:28:24 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

My first full campaign (August 45) was scenario two. The real problem is that the scenario is quite front loaded for Japan and gives them a real shot at auto victory in 1942. Stockpiles are full with lots of supply and fuel on hand at the beginning. About four or five good front line divisions at start as well as more support. Production is ramped so that the Japanese player can reach peak production much faster. A few more ships as well. The Shinano comes on as a Taiho class carrier, There are some more DDs and a lot of other stuff. It really puts a grind on the Allied player who vs a competent Japanese player will be very hard pressed in 1942. Survive 1942 and you should be OK and have an easier time. By 1944, it does not matter too much.

One severe drawback for the Japanese is the over supply of pilots in training which takes huge bites out of Japanese supply. This is a real problem for Japan.

If I granted the scenario to a Japanese opponent who knows the game I would only do it if auto victory is off the table. Otherwise it can be pretty fun for the Allies.


I found a different thread where JWE/Symon says there are about (or exactly) 70 more Japanese ships in 2. He says from CLs to DDs to PTs, with the weight of them the smaller classes.

I'm playing Lokasenna in a Scenario 2, with non-historical R&D. In September 1944 I am playing overtly for a draw. He's a much better player than me and I should not have proposed what I did. Lesson for all you newbies out there; know who you're going to play.

At times I have worried about auto-vic, yes, but it was not seriously on the table from his comments. What was decisive in my view was my gross error in trying to evacuate China as I did in my first, AARed game. Loka crushed that and gained a lot of momentum in China, which then released a horde of troops for Burma, which I am still struggling against. I have not succeeded in taking Rangoon.

I think the economy advantages might be the most important feature of 2. I don't know exactly, but the Oil/Fuel situation in 2 seemed to offer some breathing room.

I have faced Frank-r for many months, and it has been devastating, even against second gen Jugs. I have nothing that can compete. On Frank sweeps I routinely lose 5-1 or worse.

Mostly though, he forced me to come-back from way-back. Suva, Noumea, western Oz. Those three areas cost me the better part of a game year. I don't think anything in 2 allowed that. He's just a very good player, and would have done the same in 1.

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/5/2017 3:26:35 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

My first full campaign (August 45) was scenario two. The real problem is that the scenario is quite front loaded for Japan and gives them a real shot at auto victory in 1942. Stockpiles are full with lots of supply and fuel on hand at the beginning. About four or five good front line divisions at start as well as more support. Production is ramped so that the Japanese player can reach peak production much faster. A few more ships as well. The Shinano comes on as a Taiho class carrier, There are some more DDs and a lot of other stuff. It really puts a grind on the Allied player who vs a competent Japanese player will be very hard pressed in 1942. Survive 1942 and you should be OK and have an easier time. By 1944, it does not matter too much.

One severe drawback for the Japanese is the over supply of pilots in training which takes huge bites out of Japanese supply. This is a real problem for Japan.

If I granted the scenario to a Japanese opponent who knows the game I would only do it if auto victory is off the table. Otherwise it can be pretty fun for the Allies.


I found a different thread where JWE/Symon says there are about (or exactly) 70 more Japanese ships in 2. He says from CLs to DDs to PTs, with the weight of them the smaller classes.

I'm playing Lokasenna in a Scenario 2, with non-historical R&D. In September 1944 I am playing overtly for a draw. He's a much better player than me and I should not have proposed what I did. Lesson for all you newbies out there; know who you're going to play.

At times I have worried about auto-vic, yes, but it was not seriously on the table from his comments. What was decisive in my view was my gross error in trying to evacuate China as I did in my first, AARed game. Loka crushed that and gained a lot of momentum in China, which then released a horde of troops for Burma, which I am still struggling against. I have not succeeded in taking Rangoon.

I think the economy advantages might be the most important feature of 2. I don't know exactly, but the Oil/Fuel situation in 2 seemed to offer some breathing room.

I have faced Frank-r for many months, and it has been devastating, even against second gen Jugs. I have nothing that can compete. On Frank sweeps I routinely lose 5-1 or worse.

Mostly though, he forced me to come-back from way-back. Suva, Noumea, western Oz. Those three areas cost me the better part of a game year. I don't think anything in 2 allowed that. He's just a very good player, and would have done the same in 1.


Yeah, the curse of playing a good player. I found the extra ships to be of little significance as most of them come after the Allied fleet has started to become overwhelming. What is another 20 Japanese DDs when the Allies are getting 20 every two months? The biggest factor as you mentioned is the extra supply, production and troops which are there on day one.

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/5/2017 9:37:13 PM   
rustysi


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Two things which I did not noticed mentioned. The Tojo uses the Ha-35 in scen2, while it uses the Ha-34 in scen1. In addition I've read that Japan gets many more pilots in scen2 starting in '43. Yes they do in scen1 also but not as much. Read it can put a real strain on HI when the 'training bill' comes due at the beginning of the month.

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/6/2017 2:46:59 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


Plane and Engine factories!

Japan is seriously stronger...seriously.



I looked at Sapporo in light of a PM question a while ago. It is substantially different in 2 than 1 in the area of aircraft industry. Given Sapporo's location vis a vis "early" strat bombing, that might matter to some players. I wasn't successful at much of anything from the Aleutians, but if the Kuriles were attacked Sapporo might be a good target afterwards.

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RE: Scenario 2 - 6/7/2017 8:44:16 AM   
Lord_Calidor


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AndyMac's Revised Scen 2 (Scen 101) is essentially JFBs' PDU:On dream:






Attachment (1)

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