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RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obvert (A)

 
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RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 12:37:03 AM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


No... at least not SNLFs. SNLFs are fine light defensive units if they have 80+ exp. and are behind good forts. The Ankei is 60 exp. I would not waste PPs buying it out. I would not waste supply fortifying it, and I would not waste replacements replacing its casualties, unless it was in a crucial position, which it will not be, since it is JUNK... lol.


Boy, you are tough. These units are great for slicing thru the jungle cutting supply lines. Also totally air mobile and with some AT capability mid 43 and later. Great fire brigades; great anti-paratrooper garrisons; great small units that usually are bypassed in heavy bombings especially if something larger is present. Would be too neat if you could combine three of them for a regiment, but alas, no unit is perfect. You undervalue it at your peril!

Here are some more units I will buy out of China. You probably don't like them either. Probably scoff at them. I start with three Armored Car units, and they are pure gold, let me tell you. Off to Atolls for you guys!




These are the Japanese Imperial Armed Forces. We have no interest in units dressed up for parade, but can't fight. I like the armored cars, BTW, but I would not buy them out of China, at least for a long time, because I like them in China. Atoll defense? Why? Their hard rating is not enough to penetrate U.S. tank armor. Your best defense of atolls is forts. Your second best defense of atolls is forts, and your third best defense of atolls is forts.

BTW, if you really want to bring pain upon an allied armor unit in SoPac, try your Ya-Go engineer tanks in Korea... nasty and stack-limit friendly if you want to put them on an atoll.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 3/17/2017 12:42:30 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 91
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 12:57:04 AM   
Lowpe


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There is no unit that survives enemy naval bombardments better than an armored unit. For whatever reason they get targeted dead last. I can't tell you how many atoll invasions failed because of the presence of a lowly armored car unit with no disruption and forts 5 while the eng and inf and art are totally disrupted to 0 effective assault value.

Oh, and you are correct. It will probably be 43 before I buy them out.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/17/2017 12:58:27 AM >

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 92
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 1:02:05 AM   
Lowpe


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It is hard to see how HQ and unit prep help speed up combats, but it does to a remarkable degree. Here is a little sneaky one...the obvious targets are Singers, Rangoon, dare I say Calcutta?




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Post #: 93
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 5:36:12 AM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

33% hits with torpedoes sounds about right against stationary targets. Almost all your Kates carried torpedoes, hitting 43 times out off 130 dropped. However it would be interesting to run the same attack without the float planes and see if the results are the same.


I think I was getting 18-20 torpedo hits prior to daytime recon; with daytime recon it jumped up to 24 but the runway damage and damaged planes jumped 30 percent.

A lot depends how many 800kg bomb drops there are...the best strike saw 3 BB sunk outright and it had the highest amount of 800 kg bomb drops. Almost all strikes result in 0 BB going down.




Playing the Ironman scenarios, I did not use torpedos againt Pearl at all. The flak is just too murderous. In so doing, I discovered that 800 Kg bombs are actually more effective than torpedos at sinking the BBs (and more likely to get magazine explosions). The problem with just setting all bomb attacks in a PBEM is that the damage will be mostly system damage and many of the BBs will still make good speed on the 8th. It will also be hard to sink them with submarines later when they make their move to the West Coast, because they will have less flotation damage.

But for someone who wants to inflict maximum damage with 1 strike, bombs are actually better than torpedos for the Kates. And if you want to sink all 8 against the AI, which anyone can do without much trouble, it is much easier to do it with bombs than torpedos, while the BBs are at Pearl.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 94
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 1:25:24 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

33% hits with torpedoes sounds about right against stationary targets. Almost all your Kates carried torpedoes, hitting 43 times out off 130 dropped. However it would be interesting to run the same attack without the float planes and see if the results are the same.


I think I was getting 18-20 torpedo hits prior to daytime recon; with daytime recon it jumped up to 24 but the runway damage and damaged planes jumped 30 percent.

A lot depends how many 800kg bomb drops there are...the best strike saw 3 BB sunk outright and it had the highest amount of 800 kg bomb drops. Almost all strikes result in 0 BB going down.




Playing the Ironman scenarios, I did not use torpedos againt Pearl at all. The flak is just too murderous. In so doing, I discovered that 800 Kg bombs are actually more effective than torpedos at sinking the BBs (and more likely to get magazine explosions). The problem with just setting all bomb attacks in a PBEM is that the damage will be mostly system damage and many of the BBs will still make good speed on the 8th. It will also be hard to sink them with submarines later when they make their move to the West Coast, because they will have less flotation damage.

But for someone who wants to inflict maximum damage with 1 strike, bombs are actually better than torpedos for the Kates. And if you want to sink all 8 against the AI, which anyone can do without much trouble, it is much easier to do it with bombs than torpedos, while the BBs are at Pearl.


I really disagree. Torpedoes are best for quickly sinking ships, particularly armored ones. There's no guarantee that your Kates will fly with 800kg bombs instead of 2x250kg.

Ironman flak may be a special case, but you could try setting the attack altitude of the Kates to maximum to see if that magically avoids the flak. It's possible that torpedo bombers are still fired at when at 200 feet, but torpedo planes appear to teleport from whatever altitude they were at to 200 feet in order to launch.

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 95
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 1:57:24 PM   
Lowpe


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The starting IJAAF bomber force. Pretty varied. In PDU on, the temptation is great to standardize on Sally/Helen and perhaps then Peggy.

Let us refresh our memories with some supply calculations:

1. Offensive missions cost maximum load/1000 for bombers
2. Dive and Torpedo bombers are 1 supply per plane per offensive mission
3. Search and Escort and Training are 1/3rd a point of supply per plane
4. 12 points of supply to replace a fighter or fighter bomber
5. 30 points to replace a bomber (sonia or helen same price)
6. 270 PP to convert LB to FB; 75 PP to convert LB to MB.


In general, the larger the bomber’s bomb the greater effect, penetration, and accuracy.

Other than bombing troops in open terrain, or troops that are already heavily disabled, it is very difficult to actually destroy units by bombing alone. But causing disruption is critical in taking fortified positions. Also, bombing helps to drain supply from the defenders too.

To take China requires a lot of bombing. At 2.3 points of supply per Sally or Helen, it can add up extremely fast. Factor in the 30 points of supply to replace losses, and it keeps growing.

You can credibly argue that dropping 4 250kg bombs per load, the Sally/Helen are the most effective bombers Japan has and perhaps even the most efficient as it requires less bombers to achieve a certain effect.

I am going to test the opposite.

Now, if we use Lilly Ib, Ann, Mary and Sonia the costs per bombing run drop by more than half, but we are still at 30 points of supply to replace losses.

Probably around March of 1942 the Nick is going to arrive. The Nick delivers two 250 kg gp bombs at a supply cost of 1.2 per plane and only 12 points per plane replacement. Plus, they can strafe those units that lack AA. The trick in strafing ground units is to train the pilots on low ground in addition to strafing (and of course avoiding AA). The Oscar IIA might very well join the bombing campaign, but remember this is an Oscar lite game...so we shall see what I do with my very limited number of Oscars.

So my general philosophy approaching Japanese use of bombers is to limit the routine ground combat runs and ASW (to the degree I send Army bombers to do ASW) to Lilly, Ann, Mary, Sonia, and even Ida. Port strike, Airfield Strikes, Strategic Bombing, Search (to the degree I do this with Army bombers), Training will be the purview of the Sally/Helen/Peggy.

Now there will be some deviation from these guidelines, restricted units comes to mind immediately, but expect to see a fair bit of Fighter and Fighter Bomber action in bombing during this game. Sally/Helen will have a much smaller role, but the Peggy will gradually come on to become the staple 2E bomber of the Empire.

Why the Peggy? Range primarily. By the time they arrive, I always want range and China should be concluded.

The PP cost of converting LB to FB will somewhat be offset by a very aggressive policy on withdrawing squadrons early. At this point I am not sure what number of squadrons will make the conversion.





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(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 96
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 1:59:54 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

33% hits with torpedoes sounds about right against stationary targets. Almost all your Kates carried torpedoes, hitting 43 times out off 130 dropped. However it would be interesting to run the same attack without the float planes and see if the results are the same.


I think I was getting 18-20 torpedo hits prior to daytime recon; with daytime recon it jumped up to 24 but the runway damage and damaged planes jumped 30 percent.

A lot depends how many 800kg bomb drops there are...the best strike saw 3 BB sunk outright and it had the highest amount of 800 kg bomb drops. Almost all strikes result in 0 BB going down.




Playing the Ironman scenarios, I did not use torpedos againt Pearl at all. The flak is just too murderous. In so doing, I discovered that 800 Kg bombs are actually more effective than torpedos at sinking the BBs (and more likely to get magazine explosions). The problem with just setting all bomb attacks in a PBEM is that the damage will be mostly system damage and many of the BBs will still make good speed on the 8th. It will also be hard to sink them with submarines later when they make their move to the West Coast, because they will have less flotation damage.

But for someone who wants to inflict maximum damage with 1 strike, bombs are actually better than torpedos for the Kates. And if you want to sink all 8 against the AI, which anyone can do without much trouble, it is much easier to do it with bombs than torpedos, while the BBs are at Pearl.


I really disagree. Torpedoes are best for quickly sinking ships, particularly armored ones. There's no guarantee that your Kates will fly with 800kg bombs instead of 2x250kg.

Ironman flak may be a special case, but you could try setting the attack altitude of the Kates to maximum to see if that magically avoids the flak. It's possible that torpedo bombers are still fired at when at 200 feet, but torpedo planes appear to teleport from whatever altitude they were at to 200 feet in order to launch.


Have to agree with Lok here, and I have played nasty nasty and the Pearl strike is a step to far, if you want to take the SRA, but the problem with assigning a higher altitude to the Kates is the decreased hit rates for those squadrons that do take bombs over torpedoes which I am not sure how the player can influence.

There does seem to be a magic coordination in the Pearl strike, where flying at different altitudes doesn't seem to cause the strike to splinter however.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 97
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 2:06:46 PM   
MakeeLearn


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As someone who has only played Allies, stock scenario, I dread Jap torpedo planes more than bombers. They seem to be more accurate, except in bad weather. Torpedoes also seem to have a greater chance to sink a ship, compared to the same number of bombs.




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 98
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 2:09:57 PM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The starting IJAAF bomber force. Pretty varied. In PDU on, the temptation is great to standardize on Sally/Helen and perhaps then Peggy.

Let us refresh our memories with some supply calculations:

1. Offensive missions cost maximum load/1000 for bombers
2. Dive and Torpedo bombers are 1 supply per plane per offensive mission


Don't forget it cost supply to 'buy' a torpedo for your air HQ to provide to your torpedo bombers. I don't remember the supply cost to buy the torpedo but there is one.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
3. Search and Escort and Training are 1/3rd a point of supply per plane
4. 12 points of supply to replace a fighter or fighter bomber
5. 30 points to replace a bomber (sonia or helen same price)
6. 270 PP to convert LB to FB; 75 PP to convert LB to MB.


The big difference will be payload and range. using Nicks like you suggest would be beneficial in some cases, but nothing beats 200 Helens catching an allied unit sitting in the open. I have killed many allied units (complete destruction) in the open using Helens - mostly in Burma and Oz.

Also, depending on how you feel you do not need to fill out your training units - I don't believe there is any loss of training if the pilots sit in a cardboard box as compared to an actual aircraft as long as you are not flying missions.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 99
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 2:19:58 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


There does seem to be a magic coordination in the Pearl strike, where flying at different altitudes doesn't seem to cause the strike to splinter however.



Carriers.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 100
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 2:20:55 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

As someone who has only played Allies, stock scenario, I dread Jap torpedo planes more than bombers. They seem to be more accurate, except in bad weather. Torpedoes also seem to have a greater chance to sink a ship, compared to the same number of bombs.





Well, they do make a big gaping hole in the ship below the waterline. Water tends to get in. Water inside the hull tends to sink ships.

Not to state the obvious or anything .

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 101
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 2:23:18 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna




Well, they do make a big gaping hole in the ship below the waterline. Water tends to get in. Water inside the hull tends to sink ships.

Not to state the obvious or anything .



Yes, it is another gold star for WiTPAE's modeling of the real world.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 102
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 2:44:39 PM   
Lowpe


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It is harder to sink ships in a big port like Pearl, with naval support squads and a nice repair yard.


(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 103
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 2:47:05 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

but nothing beats 200 Helens catching an allied unit sitting in the open. I have killed many allied units (complete destruction) in the open using Helens - mostly in Burma and Oz.




They are guidelines not hard and fast rules. Oz is usually easier as their is a noted lack of AA there. Burma can be tough, especially if the Ceylon AA is bought out.

One torpedo is 10 supply.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/17/2017 2:49:01 PM >

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 104
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 2:59:26 PM   
Lowpe


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Night bombing:

As JFB, I hate night bombing. Don't really use it...but we seem to have a very interesting HR limiting it's use on ports and airfields.

So, I think I may actually dedicate one squadron of Helen/Sally/Peggy to it. Of course, Japan used it in real life.

I think it will be about as effective as the following passage, but it will add flavor.

The following morning we went off with the twins to Calcutta to see what damage was caused by the bombing. On our way we were met by the astonishing sight of a great exodus from Calcutta. Men, women and children, cars and lorries of all descriptions, donkeys, goats tethered to carts, parrots in cages on top of lorries, one solid mass of humanity were moving along the trunk road, all terrified out of their wits trying to reach a place of safety anywhere away from Calcutta. We continued on or way but apart from a small hole in the road in front of the Great Eastern hotel there was nothing much to see.
Eugenie Fraser, wife of a jute mill manager, Calcutta, late 1942

(source:page 104 of Eugenie Fraser: “A home by the Hooghly. A jute Wallahs Wife” .Edinburgh: Mainstream Publishing 1989)

(COPYRIGHT NOTICE: Reproduced under 'fair dealing' terms as part of a non commercial educational research project. The copyright remains with Eugenie Fraser)


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 105
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 6:06:49 PM   
Aurorus

 

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Joined: 5/26/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

33% hits with torpedoes sounds about right against stationary targets. Almost all your Kates carried torpedoes, hitting 43 times out off 130 dropped. However it would be interesting to run the same attack without the float planes and see if the results are the same.


I think I was getting 18-20 torpedo hits prior to daytime recon; with daytime recon it jumped up to 24 but the runway damage and damaged planes jumped 30 percent.

A lot depends how many 800kg bomb drops there are...the best strike saw 3 BB sunk outright and it had the highest amount of 800 kg bomb drops. Almost all strikes result in 0 BB going down.




Playing the Ironman scenarios, I did not use torpedos againt Pearl at all. The flak is just too murderous. In so doing, I discovered that 800 Kg bombs are actually more effective than torpedos at sinking the BBs (and more likely to get magazine explosions). The problem with just setting all bomb attacks in a PBEM is that the damage will be mostly system damage and many of the BBs will still make good speed on the 8th. It will also be hard to sink them with submarines later when they make their move to the West Coast, because they will have less flotation damage.

But for someone who wants to inflict maximum damage with 1 strike, bombs are actually better than torpedos for the Kates. And if you want to sink all 8 against the AI, which anyone can do without much trouble, it is much easier to do it with bombs than torpedos, while the BBs are at Pearl.


I really disagree. Torpedoes are best for quickly sinking ships, particularly armored ones. There's no guarantee that your Kates will fly with 800kg bombs instead of 2x250kg.

Ironman flak may be a special case, but you could try setting the attack altitude of the Kates to maximum to see if that magically avoids the flak. It's possible that torpedo bombers are still fired at when at 200 feet, but torpedo planes appear to teleport from whatever altitude they were at to 200 feet in order to launch.


Have to agree with Lok here, and I have played nasty nasty and the Pearl strike is a step to far, if you want to take the SRA, but the problem with assigning a higher altitude to the Kates is the decreased hit rates for those squadrons that do take bombs over torpedoes which I am not sure how the player can influence.

There does seem to be a magic coordination in the Pearl strike, where flying at different altitudes doesn't seem to cause the strike to splinter however.



Trust me... the Kates take flak at 200 feet if they torpedo on Dec. 7th. It is just that the majority of the U.S. flak is turned off somehow. On Ironman nasty, even with some flak turned off, it is too much for the Kates at 200 feet... really bad... like 18 Kates destroyed and 30 damaged. Now fly in at 12K or 15K... lots of nice bomb hits, usually a magazine explosion, and 1 Kate destroyed, 2 damaged. Much more acceptable. Wash, rinse, and repeat against nasty, and you sink all 8 BBs. The computer makes a break for it on day 4 or 5, I think, so that is the time to use your torpedos. Why not strike Pearl in nasty? Just go slow in the DEI. Use land-based air and move 1 base at a time. It is well worth it to get the Lexington, which starts in Pearl, and 8 BBs.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 106
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 6:58:46 PM   
Lowpe


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Here is a look at the starting fighter squadrons -- Army.

I feel bad for these guys, as they are going to have a tough time early game.

They will be stuck with the Oscar Ic, until Tony rolls around probably somewhere in mid 42. Even in games where I accelerate the Oscar, Tojo they don't really seem to contribute much thru mid 43 as the Allies really hide a lot so I am hoping the Ic will fill the bill.

By the time I need to defend Magwe, the Tony should be coming online to fill the bill, and perhaps I will have to use the Nick as well.

I have a fair bit of Tony research, and I am pondering now do I accelerate the an early model just to get something in place of Oscar Ic or do I jump straight to the 100-I. By the time the factories repair, I will have the 500 engine bonus for the Ki100 and that is powerful.

The Ki61-d comes with centerline cannons and is one year earlier than the Ki100-I. The Ki61-c also has cannons (f mount)and comes 7 months sooner than the D.

Jumping forward it is past mid 43 for the Frank A to start production. On the Navy side the Jack should start production in very early 1943. So there is a fighter gap say from June 42 to 1943 where the Navy Zeroes & Nick will really have to do quite a bit of work.

I will have one factory of Tojo IIa, and if the air war is quiet perhaps that will be enough to let me jump straight to the Ki100-I and skip all previous versions of the Tony.

As for bomber escorts it is going to be the Oscar Ic for the Army for quite a while.






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(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 107
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 7:02:08 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

33% hits with torpedoes sounds about right against stationary targets. Almost all your Kates carried torpedoes, hitting 43 times out off 130 dropped. However it would be interesting to run the same attack without the float planes and see if the results are the same.


I think I was getting 18-20 torpedo hits prior to daytime recon; with daytime recon it jumped up to 24 but the runway damage and damaged planes jumped 30 percent.

A lot depends how many 800kg bomb drops there are...the best strike saw 3 BB sunk outright and it had the highest amount of 800 kg bomb drops. Almost all strikes result in 0 BB going down.




Playing the Ironman scenarios, I did not use torpedos againt Pearl at all. The flak is just too murderous. In so doing, I discovered that 800 Kg bombs are actually more effective than torpedos at sinking the BBs (and more likely to get magazine explosions). The problem with just setting all bomb attacks in a PBEM is that the damage will be mostly system damage and many of the BBs will still make good speed on the 8th. It will also be hard to sink them with submarines later when they make their move to the West Coast, because they will have less flotation damage.

But for someone who wants to inflict maximum damage with 1 strike, bombs are actually better than torpedos for the Kates. And if you want to sink all 8 against the AI, which anyone can do without much trouble, it is much easier to do it with bombs than torpedos, while the BBs are at Pearl.


I really disagree. Torpedoes are best for quickly sinking ships, particularly armored ones. There's no guarantee that your Kates will fly with 800kg bombs instead of 2x250kg.

Ironman flak may be a special case, but you could try setting the attack altitude of the Kates to maximum to see if that magically avoids the flak. It's possible that torpedo bombers are still fired at when at 200 feet, but torpedo planes appear to teleport from whatever altitude they were at to 200 feet in order to launch.


Have to agree with Lok here, and I have played nasty nasty and the Pearl strike is a step to far, if you want to take the SRA, but the problem with assigning a higher altitude to the Kates is the decreased hit rates for those squadrons that do take bombs over torpedoes which I am not sure how the player can influence.

There does seem to be a magic coordination in the Pearl strike, where flying at different altitudes doesn't seem to cause the strike to splinter however.



Trust me... the Kates take flak at 200 feet if they torpedo on Dec. 7th. It is just that the majority of the U.S. flak is turned off somehow. On Ironman nasty, even with some flak turned off, it is too much for the Kates at 200 feet... really bad... like 18 Kates destroyed and 30 damaged. Now fly in at 12K or 15K... lots of nice bomb hits, usually a magazine explosion, and 1 Kate destroyed, 2 damaged. Much more acceptable. Wash, rinse, and repeat against nasty, and you sink all 8 BBs. The computer makes a break for it on day 4 or 5, I think, so that is the time to use your torpedos. Why not strike Pearl in nasty? Just go slow in the DEI. Use land-based air and move 1 base at a time. It is well worth it to get the Lexington, which starts in Pearl, and 8 BBs.


On the combat replay simulation, where all the kates carried torpedoes, that was the loss 14 kia and 30 damaged roughly.

Flying high avoids the first round of AA, or at least whatever you are flying above, but they still get nailed on their torpedo run.

I didn't do the Pearl strike on Andymac's idea. He had just come out with the mod, and there is a battleship to sink near Manila...seemed like a fair trade to accelerate the SRA conquests.

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 108
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 8:15:55 PM   
Lowpe


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Navy Fighters at game start.

Not many, and they will really be tasked with a lot of responsibility early on.

The Rufe and A6M3 planes are just around the corner and will help. Expect to see a fair bit of Rufe action this game.

It will be Jack and George carrying a lot of weight after 1942,and I expect to get Sam mid 44.




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(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 109
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 8:41:14 PM   
Anachro


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What are your thoughts on night fighters and R&D as you go forward? J1N1 seems like the easiest to get early on, but I don't rate it highly. It might not even be worth it considering when massed Allied night attacks might appear.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 110
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 8:41:28 PM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here is a look at the starting fighter squadrons -- Army.

I feel bad for these guys, as they are going to have a tough time early game.

They will be stuck with the Oscar Ic, until Tony rolls around probably somewhere in mid 42. Even in games where I accelerate the Oscar, Tojo they don't really seem to contribute much thru mid 43 as the Allies really hide a lot so I am hoping the Ic will fill the bill.

By the time I need to defend Magwe, the Tony should be coming online to fill the bill, and perhaps I will have to use the Nick as well.

I have a fair bit of Tony research, and I am pondering now do I accelerate the an early model just to get something in place of Oscar Ic or do I jump straight to the 100-I. By the time the factories repair, I will have the 500 engine bonus for the Ki100 and that is powerful.

The Ki61-d comes with centerline cannons and is one year earlier than the Ki100-I. The Ki61-c also has cannons (f mount)and comes 7 months sooner than the D.

Jumping forward it is past mid 43 for the Frank A to start production. On the Navy side the Jack should start production in very early 1943. So there is a fighter gap say from June 42 to 1943 where the Navy Zeroes & Nick will really have to do quite a bit of work.

I will have one factory of Tojo IIa, and if the air war is quiet perhaps that will be enough to let me jump straight to the Ki100-I and skip all previous versions of the Tony.

As for bomber escorts it is going to be the Oscar Ic for the Army for quite a while.



Don't forget, your Tony factories upgrade through the line for free, and each Tony brings something new. Why not research the line? It seems more supply efficient and gives you a better airforce throughout the war, not just at the end-game.

The first Tony has 2 main problems: range and service rating. As the line progresses, these problems are resolved. The Tony is very good if you can get the better SR and longer range versions into play early.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 3/17/2017 9:00:25 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 111
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 9:17:38 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19810
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

What are your thoughts on night fighters and R&D as you go forward? J1N1 seems like the easiest to get early on, but I don't rate it highly. It might not even be worth it considering when massed Allied night attacks might appear.


Obvert wrote the book on late war night fighter defense, and I was an avid pupil at the time.

In my game against Tiemanj, I was able to put together a strategy that really minimized night bombing, to the point that for the most part the Allies pursued a daytime strategy.

Obvert proposed no 4E ground bombing as a HR. I think this speaks volumes for his planned usage of 4Es. I am expecting early and often night bombing especially of places like Magwe.

To counter I have a strong r&d program and a holistically zen approach:

Irving-s (size 30 x2): It is the first and critical night fighter to get. Many bad mouth it, but in 1943 it does well, especially against 2E night bombers. The Sa version is a marked step up, has an extra gun which lets the Irving fight longer, and has radar as of 6/44 I believe. Both factories will probably research the -sa version, depending upon game events.

France-s (size 30 x2): The best NF in the game. Hands down imho. Perhaps an argument can be made for the Myrt being that it is single engine (but the lack of armor is a telling disadvantage I think)?

Zero NF: (size 30 x1): Carrier capable, and allows for some modest resizing of a few NF squadrons.

Nick D: (size 30 x1): This should insure it arrives roughly in time with the early B29 squadrons. You need Nicks for their sheer volume.

Dinah NF: (size 30 x1): Important to get so that some recon squadrons can be opened up to the NF tree.

Peggy 109-I (size 30 x2): Armored, durable, fast enough if just barely. If I make it this far will become the primary Army NF.

Myrt NF (size 30 x1): Because Pax likes them, also because they seemed to do better than their stats would suggest. I hope I live long enough to find out.

Denko: trash. SR way too high, radar activates late.
RandY: trash. Radar activates way too late, arrives too late.
Judy: cheap single engine and fairly fast, but barely armed and you don't need it to unlock any NF squadrons. Not CV capable.

The best NF are armored, 360mph+, with good and accurate cannons and radar, low SR. Doesn't exist, so we will make do with the above choices turning all 21 or 22 possible NF squadrons to achieve mass.

AA is key. Searchlights are nice and those AA units with them will be prioritized to likely night bombing bases, but radar is very important. The biggest deterrent early is to have something flying that will distract the bombers in addition to the AA-- my preferred choices will be Petes in port, and the Dinah Fighter when she comes along. M-M has reported good results with Randy F and Nicks.

I am thinking there will be a lot of night action in this game!


(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 112
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 9:20:10 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19810
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here is a look at the starting fighter squadrons -- Army.

I feel bad for these guys, as they are going to have a tough time early game.

They will be stuck with the Oscar Ic, until Tony rolls around probably somewhere in mid 42. Even in games where I accelerate the Oscar, Tojo they don't really seem to contribute much thru mid 43 as the Allies really hide a lot so I am hoping the Ic will fill the bill.

By the time I need to defend Magwe, the Tony should be coming online to fill the bill, and perhaps I will have to use the Nick as well.

I have a fair bit of Tony research, and I am pondering now do I accelerate the an early model just to get something in place of Oscar Ic or do I jump straight to the 100-I. By the time the factories repair, I will have the 500 engine bonus for the Ki100 and that is powerful.

The Ki61-d comes with centerline cannons and is one year earlier than the Ki100-I. The Ki61-c also has cannons (f mount)and comes 7 months sooner than the D.

Jumping forward it is past mid 43 for the Frank A to start production. On the Navy side the Jack should start production in very early 1943. So there is a fighter gap say from June 42 to 1943 where the Navy Zeroes & Nick will really have to do quite a bit of work.

I will have one factory of Tojo IIa, and if the air war is quiet perhaps that will be enough to let me jump straight to the Ki100-I and skip all previous versions of the Tony.

As for bomber escorts it is going to be the Oscar Ic for the Army for quite a while.



Don't forget, your Tony factories upgrade through the line for free, and each Tony brings something new. Why not research the line? It seems more supply efficient and gives you a better airforce throughout the war, not just at the end-game.

The first Tony has 2 main problems: range and service rating. As the line progresses, these problems are resolved. The Tony is very good if you can get the better SR and longer range versions into play early.


If I jump from one plane to the next down the line it will put off getting the Ki100-I till fairly late. If I jump straight down the line from the 61A to the 100-I, I can get the plane in mid 43 or maybe earlier. I am thinking other fighters will give the cover I need till it arrives.

This is a gamey move, and many players get upset when you skip generations like this.


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/17/2017 9:21:11 PM >

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 113
RE: In blossom today, then scattered; Lowpe (J) vs Obve... - 3/17/2017 9:33:50 PM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here is a look at the starting fighter squadrons -- Army.

I feel bad for these guys, as they are going to have a tough time early game.

They will be stuck with the Oscar Ic, until Tony rolls around probably somewhere in mid 42. Even in games where I accelerate the Oscar, Tojo they don't really seem to contribute much thru mid 43 as the Allies really hide a lot so I am hoping the Ic will fill the bill.

By the time I need to defend Magwe, the Tony should be coming online to fill the bill, and perhaps I will have to use the Nick as well.

I have a fair bit of Tony research, and I am pondering now do I accelerate the an early model just to get something in place of Oscar Ic or do I jump straight to the 100-I. By the time the factories repair, I will have the 500 engine bonus for the Ki100 and that is powerful.

The Ki61-d comes with centerline cannons and is one year earlier than the Ki100-I. The Ki61-c also has cannons (f mount)and comes 7 months sooner than the D.

Jumping forward it is past mid 43 for the Frank A to start production. On the Navy side the Jack should start production in very early 1943. So there is a fighter gap say from June 42 to 1943 where the Navy Zeroes & Nick will really have to do quite a bit of work.

I will have one factory of Tojo IIa, and if the air war is quiet perhaps that will be enough to let me jump straight to the Ki100-I and skip all previous versions of the Tony.

As for bomber escorts it is going to be the Oscar Ic for the Army for quite a while.



Don't forget, your Tony factories upgrade through the line for free, and each Tony brings something new. Why not research the line? It seems more supply efficient and gives you a better airforce throughout the war, not just at the end-game.

The first Tony has 2 main problems: range and service rating. As the line progresses, these problems are resolved. The Tony is very good if you can get the better SR and longer range versions into play early.


If I jump from one plane to the next down the line it will put off getting the Ki100-I till fairly late. If I jump straight down the line from the 61A to the 100-I, I can get the plane in mid 43 or maybe earlier. I am thinking other fighters will give the cover I need till it arrives.

This is a gamey move, and many players get upset when you skip generations like this.



1) I think its gamey. Not important what I think though. It's what you and Obvert think.
2) How many factories are you going to put into Tony to move up the 100 I by 2 years? That is a lot of R&D, and you will not even have 500 engines in the pool until fall 42, even with heavy Kawasaki R&D and production. By using much less Heavy Industry for R&D, you can have the 61D in early 43 and the Tony 1 in early 44. The only major differences between the 61D and the 100 I are 4 points of manuever and 1 service rating. All things are a tradeoff.

Oh... I just realized that the 100 uses the Mit 33. So I guess going for it directly is more efficient than I initially thought.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 3/17/2017 9:42:56 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 114
The Dutch are the first to Die! - 3/17/2017 9:35:26 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19810
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Kaboom! And the war has begun!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 115
RE: The Dutch are the first to Die! - 3/17/2017 9:45:02 PM   
Anachro


Posts: 2502
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
Status: offline
Always nice to sink one of the dutch subs in the early game. I wish you a successful campaign. Thanks for the input. Some different conclusions to what I decided upon for myself when analyzing the various aircraft. Originally, I like the Randy a lot and was considering incorporating it with R&D investment (most likely due to the radar). Do you know when radar activates?

Do you think about what's economical from an engine standpoint when deciding on your investments? I.E. The Ha-32 of the Frances doesn't have overlap with much else. The Ha-33 of the Randy has various overlapping planes. Just a thought.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 3/17/2017 9:52:06 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 116
RE: The Dutch are the first to Die! - 3/17/2017 9:47:36 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19810
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
The Pearl strike is away...but reports are garbled...not clear...

Over Luzon the sweep goes in first, and finds a stronger air presence than expected. It is brushed aside!




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/17/2017 9:48:22 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 117
RE: The Dutch are the first to Die! - 3/17/2017 9:51:03 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19810
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Where is Force Z?




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 118
RE: The Dutch are the first to Die! - 3/17/2017 9:57:03 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19810
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Luzon...




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 119
RE: The Dutch are the first to Die! - 3/17/2017 10:00:59 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 19810
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Shipping at Georgetown detected...and obliterated.




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 120
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