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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/26/2018 7:02:43 PM   
Telemecus


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Turns 22 to 37 Operation Pegasus Plucked: A Retrosective on our 1941/42 Winter - Order of Battle

Start of turn 38



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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/26/2018 8:09:19 PM   
xhoel


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Ok thanks for explaining it Tele, quite helpful :)

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/26/2018 8:35:04 PM   
leverkuhn


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TURNS 1-35 IN SPREADSHEETS. A brief report by Leverkuhn (Part 1)

As a sign of gratitude for letting me be a part of the Axis team, I will be providing a whole set of spreadsheets for this amazing MP game.

First off, we have the Panzer Division report. Here you can see the evolution in AFV, Morale, Experience and ToE% from turn 1 to turn 35.

1) No. of AFV per division (from north to south) with a focus on turn 20, the first time Moscow, Leningrad and Rostov were all under Axis control (notice the huge decline from that moment onwards due to winter conditions):


2) Evolution of PzD Morale:


3) Evolution of PzD Experience:


4) Evolution of ToE percentage:


< Message edited by leverkuhn -- 7/26/2018 11:16:24 PM >

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/26/2018 8:51:31 PM   
leverkuhn


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TURNS 1-35 IN SPREADSHEETS. A brief report by Leverkuhn (Part 2)

Next up, we have the Order of Battle report. Here you can see the evolution in active Manpower, Army Status, AFV, guns and aircraft from turn 1 to turn 35.

1) Active Manpower evolution (pools and injured not included):


2) Army status evolution (remember that army status does not take account of whether you units' ToE% is choked, so it will always assume maximum unit strength; also, turn 1 is not included as there is no commander log, which should not mean units are at absolute full strength -but it would be painful to calculate how many men are missing by 22nd June, as one should check every ToE individually-):


3) Evolution of Active AFV, Guns and Aircraft (remember pools and damaged elements are not included):



< Message edited by leverkuhn -- 7/26/2018 10:56:30 PM >

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/26/2018 9:04:14 PM   
leverkuhn


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TURNS 1-35 IN SPREADSHEETS. A brief report by Leverkuhn (Part 3)

And finally, I have something a bit special: the Panzer Snapshot Report. As a tank geek myself, I love keeping track of the actual composition of the German war machine at a given stage of the campaign. So here you have the active number of each type of german AFV, AC and SP every 5 turns (by axis turn start), so we can know exactly which types are serving in the East and how fast the renovation takes place.

Orange means out of production but units still left (whether in pools or active).
Black means not in production and no units left.
Red means captured equipment.




< Message edited by leverkuhn -- 7/27/2018 1:03:04 PM >

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/26/2018 11:00:36 PM   
Zorch

 

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Most excellent!

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/27/2018 1:19:36 AM   
redrum68

 

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Interesting spreadsheets. Any thoughts or conclusions from them? Hard for me to make much of them without having spreadsheets from other games to compare them to.

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/27/2018 12:12:34 PM   
xhoel


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Really nice job leverkuhn, adds a nice flavor to the game and it's always good to have a point of reference :)

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RE: 8MP National Garden - 7/27/2018 3:59:46 PM   
Telemecus


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Turn 38 to 45: OPERATION NATIONAL GARDEN

With the snows of spring arriving we move our horizons to what 1942 will bring. In preparation we chose to concentrate our main effort on seizing a bridgehead accross the river Don before it unfreezes. We call this Operation National Garden. If it was a Soviet operation no doubt it would be a collectivised garden. Unlike the western allies we put the country before the market. But will it be a bridgehead too far?




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RE: 8MP T38 - 7/27/2018 6:01:33 PM   
thedude357


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Turn 38 Army Group South

With the boredom of defending all winter and the need to get a bridgehead over the Don, 17th Army in conjunction with 1st Panzer Army and independent infantry corps come up with a plan to breach the Soviet defensive line south of Voronezh and establish a bridgehead before the spring. This was named by Telemecus as Operation National Garden. This attack also served as a test of the strength of the Soviet line. A bridgehead over the Don before spring would be a huge boost to the upcoming summer offensive as a key defensive obstacle is effectively negated. The attack begins with German infantry conducting a shaping attack against Soviet infantry that pushes them out of the way with plenty of artillery.

In the far south in Crimea, Kerch is captured and most of the Soviets are pushed out of Crimea. One Soviet infantry brigade is trapped and will be forced to surrender next turn. With Kerch practically secured all focus will now be on Sevastopol during good weather.



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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/27/2018 6:20:48 PM   
timmyab

 

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Turn 38 Army group North

With the worst of the Winter weather now out of the way AGN starts to think offensively for the first time in three months. We don't have too many spare offensive assets up here but a sufficient force is scraped together and assembled to the North of Novgorod including 60th mot and 6th pz divisions. Also three inf divisions newly arrived in the East and therefore relatively strong.

The objective of this offensive is to push a wedge SE towards the Valdai hills and therefore to eject the Soviets from their gains West of the Valdai.

The first week goes as well as could be hoped with some patrols even making it across the still frozen Msta river and destroying some enemy forifications in the proccess. It's essential that we establish a firm bridgehead across the river before the thaw comes.

The highly capable General Weiss has been given charge of the operation codenamed 'Snowdrop'




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RE: 8MP T38 - 7/27/2018 6:43:42 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab
The highly capable General Weiss has been given charge of the operation codenamed 'Snowdrop'

Do not forget in charge of the highly capable X corps!



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RE: 8MP T38 - 7/27/2018 7:02:16 PM   
Telemecus


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Turn 38 11-March-1942 Centre

For the first time in a long time our ground forces have to face a Soviet air force - and our air force is caught napping. With the Luftwaffe fighter cover not properly prepared and flak being held back to rail lines, for this turn at least the Soviet air force is able to inflict significant disruption.

With the snow we find the soviet forces have withdrawn a few hexes East bar a few rear guard brigades that are swept away




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RE: 8MP T38 - 7/27/2018 7:15:14 PM   
Telemecus


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Turn 38 11-March-1942 Air

Yet again the Soviet air force bombs our recon airfields. In addition they have started spam ground bombing which does some damage to our ground forces. The "mad bomber" is back!

Their air force continues to exist only in a concentration of bases near Arzamas and East of Voronezh, and a lone airbase near Voronezh. There is also still a group of biplane fighters in a group of airbases in the far North.

The Luftwaffe concentrates on the bases near Arzamas while southern allies do what they can with the airbases near and East of Voronezh. Almost all the Soviet losses come from fighter sweeps where Soviet interceptors travel the longest distances we can make them fly in the bad weather. In clear weather following up with bombing of their airfields would be crushing to their already badly damaged interceptor force. But in the bad weather operating at long range the losses are far lower. The shortage of vehicles means very few bombers have been assigned out of National Reserve, so there is just not the critical mass to make a large airfield bombing campaign.




Meanwhile the Finnish air force continues to clock up victories in unescorted unintercepted daylight bombing of the non-flying biplane fighters at airbases in the far north.



Air losses for the turn



Finally there is just enough for one industry bombing raid ...

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RE: 8MP T38 - 7/27/2018 7:24:29 PM   
Telemecus


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Turn 38 11-March-1942 Economic

New factories have opened to produce the T70 tank - including one at Gorky that starts producing 13 a week but will eventually expand to 30 a week. By getting just 1% damage we halt the the expansion (v1.11.02 has yet to be released), so we know total T70 production has been reduced by 17. Every turn we can continue this we know will prevent another 17 T70s from ever being produced. But we only just achieve this with our first raid. To be certain we are going to need a greater mass of bombers in future turns.


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RE: 8MP T38 - 7/27/2018 7:25:52 PM   
Telemecus


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Turn 38 Allocations
For information only - team allocations for turn 38.


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RE: 8MP T39 - 7/27/2018 9:55:32 PM   
timmyab

 

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Turn 39 Army group North

Blizzard conditions return again to the North making the second week of operation Snowdrop frustratingly heavy going. It also coincides with a determined Soviet counterattack which eventually forces 6th pz division to temporarily abandon it's forward positions. However Weiss stabalizes the situation and pushes back the Soviets for ten miles along a twenty mile front.

The weather forcast is looking better for next week so hopefully X corps will regain some of it's lost momentum.




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RE: 8MP T38 - 7/27/2018 11:26:13 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 38 11-March-1942 Air

Yet again the Soviet air force bombs our recon airfields. In addition they have started spam ground bombing which does some damage to our ground forces. The "mad bomber" is back


I seem to remember this term in another post a few months ago ;-p.

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/28/2018 2:10:20 PM   
STEF78


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leverkuhn
.../...

Very interesting spreadsheets. Did you find a way to export the datas?

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/28/2018 2:12:10 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


quote:

ORIGINAL: leverkuhn
.../...

Very interesting spreadsheets. Did you find a way to export the datas?



Like the bottom right corner of the commanders report?




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RE: 8MP T39 - 7/28/2018 4:55:10 PM   
Telemecus


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Turn 39 18-March-1942 Centre

The "mad bomber" (from a parallel universe some months ago) makes one attempt to repeat last turn - but this time we were ready. No more ground bombing.

Broad advances west from Tula.

North completes its "electric slide" to the Oka - the Oka from now will be the North-Centre command boundary.

For this and next turn centre takes command of 6th Army and VIII Hungarian Corps to support its 3rd Panzer army.




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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/28/2018 6:24:31 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Really nice job leverkuhn, adds a nice flavor to the game and it's always good to have a point of reference :)


Thank you, and congrats on your fantastic AARs. I hope you can keep them going.

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/30/2018 2:49:02 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leverkuhn

TURNS 1-35 IN SPREADSHEETS. A brief report by Leverkuhn (Part 1)

As a sign of gratitude for letting me be a part of the Axis team, I will be providing a whole set of spreadsheets for this amazing MP game.

First off, we have the Panzer Division report. Here you can see the evolution in AFV, Morale, Experience and ToE% from turn 1 to turn 35.

1) No. of AFV per division (from north to south) with a focus on turn 20, the first time Moscow, Leningrad and Rostov were all under Axis control (notice the huge decline from that moment onwards due to winter conditions):



I had really expected to see a difference between the Panzers involved in the direct battle for Moscow - who had more grinding into ranks for enemy to do - than Panzers in other areas. But you just do not see the difference at all.

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/30/2018 6:19:24 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leverkuhn

TURNS 1-35 IN SPREADSHEETS. A brief report by Leverkuhn (Part 2)

Next up, we have the Order of Battle report. Here you can see the evolution in active Manpower, Army Status, AFV, guns and aircraft from turn 1 to turn 35.

1) Active Manpower evolution (pools and injured not included):



So even thought the German army OOB deficit is larger during blizzard, by the end the German army is bigger than it has ever been.

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RE: 8MP Pegasus Plucked - 7/30/2018 6:20:19 PM   
xhoel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leverkuhn


quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Really nice job leverkuhn, adds a nice flavor to the game and it's always good to have a point of reference :)


Thank you, and congrats on your fantastic AARs. I hope you can keep them going.


Thank you very much. I intend to, things have just been going slow since I have been really busy with real life. Anyway, keep up the good work!

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8MP Managing the Air - 7/31/2018 5:23:08 PM   
Telemecus


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Managing the Air: Air Group Spreadsheets

This is one of a series of posts on managing the air arm. This is in response to a request by Zorch. If you think this is just a bit too much detail - then blame Zorch!

One of the problems we have faced throughout the team game has been turnaround times. Even fast players cannot always be lined up to take their gos one after another. So the delays between one player finishing and the next player picking up the game file, multiplied by the number of players in a team, can add up to days for each turn.

This for me at least is why I started using spreadsheets. It enabled me to list down settings in a spreadsheet while the rest of the team took their go and copy them in quickly when it was my turn. By using time when I did not have the game file more efficiently I hoped to make the turns quicker.




The picture shows an example of our airgroups spreadsheet where we list out each airgroup in rows. This is created from scenario data (columns A to H and also T to V) and the export of data for that turn from the commanders report (columns I,J,L,M). Column O contains the autoswap settings we have given that air group (M=Manual, U=Upgrade only, A=Auto Swap) and column R the replacement settings (R=Replacements on, N=No replacements).

Usually when the turn is still with our Soviet opponents I will be copying in any changes I want to make although this may change when I first get the turn back from the Soviet team and we can see if there are any unexpected losses, swaps or other changes in the pool. Critically there is a conditional formatting set up to give a red colour background to any of these settings that have changed. So when it comes to my turn with the file I merely look for the settings in red and and only need to make sure those changes to the airgroup settings are done. Having done all the thinking before hand there is no more need to think about it when it is my turn.

Whereas column J shows the type of aircraft that airgroup currently has from the turn data, column K shows the type of aircraft I would like it to have. Usually it is the same, but where different again it will automatically have a red background. Frequently the autoswap settings will be chosen to get the AI to change the airgroup to that type for free during logisitcs. But occasionally spending points on a manual swap is required.

Finally column Q is a number calculated to show the maximum number of aircraft the airgroup could take from the pool in that logisitcs turn. If replacements are off for that airgroup it will be none. But if replacements are on it will be the difference between total and maximum aircraft for that airgroup. The numbers in this column are the added together for each aircraft type and displayed in another tab of the spreadsheet shown in the picture below



Where the capacity for airgroup replacements for that type of aircraft are smaller than the pool this is automatically given a red colour. Normally this would mean I need to switch some more airgroups with that aircraft type to having replacements on. But if that is not enough it may be time to switch others to upgrade only or autoswap if I think they will become that type. But if the AI is unlikely to do this swap in logistics, or will take too long to do it, points may need to be spent to do it manually. Conversely if the capacity is much higher than the pool, some of the not so good airgroups for that type might have their replacements turned off, or ultimately swapped out of that type. I will write more about where and to what we decided to do this in another post. But this illustrates for now the use of spreadsheets in this decision.

Having started a spreadsheet to track airgroups in this team game, it has since becoming useful in many other ways. Essentially for me it has now replaced the commanders report tab for airgroups. In a spreadsheet program I can filter or sort the rows however I like. I can include more columns, such as turn arrival and departure dates. And even included in my consideration airgroups that have not even arrived yet.

An earlier version of this spreadsheet is available in the WitE library of resources. I can also provide other versions on request.

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RE: 8MP Managing the Air - 7/31/2018 7:46:49 PM   
Zorch

 

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Incredible. The only thing missing are individual pilots & skills ala WitP:AE.

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RE: 8MP Managing the Air - 8/2/2018 11:33:27 AM   
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I just wanted to say it is a huge pleasure sharing this game with Telemecus. Absolute beast of a guy when it comes to helping and explaining things thoroughly.

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RE: 8MP Managing the Air - 8/2/2018 2:00:14 PM   
Telemecus


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Managing the Air: Swaps, Upgrades and Replacements Part I: Making more German fighters

This is part of an occasional series on the details of managing the air arm in response to a request by Zorch. More detail is being given than normal here, those wishing for a casual read of the AAR may want to skip over this post.

Relative to other aircraft Germany produces too few single seat fighters. Their losses is a key metric in the air war, and anything to boost their numbers is a plus.

During these past turns a few FW 190A fighters were available, however these will remain in the pool and will not convert or be exported and so have not been used. Instead all our fighters have been in the Bf109 line with four variants: E3, E7, F2 and F4 in that succession of upgrades. The E3 is shorter range than the others, the F4 is longer range than the others. However the F2 variant does not export or get converted. Any left in the pool we know will still be there when we want it. The E7 on the other hand will be exported, and worse to Slovakia after it no longer has any airgroups so they will remain in the pool in the game as good as lost to the end. The F4 will export much later, but at least to be used by Hungarian fighter squadrons. Nevertheless the Hungarian variant has worse stats than the German version and is flown by airgroups with a lower base morale (when we upgrade to v1.11.02+) and in a geographically restricted area. So long as the number of German fighters is a chokepoint, we would much rather these were flown by German pilots. And the E3 both converts to Rumanian fighters, with the same issues, or converts to fighter bombers which then convert to tac/dive bombers. Either way a loss to the number of German single seat fighters. Looking at the pools on turn 1 we can see there are 220 of these



When we look at the arrivals and withdrawals of air groups on turn 1 we can also see many German single seat fighter groups are withdrawing, often with the most modern variants and many soon. At the start of turn 1 in the v1.10.00 scenario data we started this game with there are already 627 single seat fighters in airgroups set to withdraw. And as some of those airgroups are below their maximum number if they are set to receive replacements many more will withdraw with them.



Occasionally you will hear the question is it possible to increase the production of German single seat fighters. My first response is why not just stop giving them away? If you can eliminate withdrawals and exports/conversions you will already have gained 847 of them, and even more if you had been allowing replacements to add to them. To do this you want to see zeros next to those withdrawing airgroups in air arrivals and withdrawls screen and zeros in the pool for those air models that export or convert.

Here is what we did

Switch off replacements to withdrawing groups This is the simplest way to reduce the number of aircraft being withdrawn - stop adding to them! Exceptions can be made for airgroups withdrawing a very long way in the future, so long as you switch off replacements with sufficient time to still allow the airgroup to finish with zero aircraft before it goes. Also beware that these aircraft will start to have low proportions of ready aircraft relative to their maximum number which could mean they miss out on automatic missions if your air doctrine is set to a higher proportion.

Prioritise withdrawing groups for operations Whenever there is an air mission to be done manually, pick withdrawing air groups first. Wherever automatic missions are more likely, put withdrawing airgroups in an airbase near by first.

Set airgroups to upgrade only option Unless withdrawing and downgraded to an earlier option or intentionally kept on an earlier version to keep aircraft of that type out of the pool, fighter airgroups have upgraded automatically and for free to Bf109F4. By turn 37 only two airgroups remains as Bf109F2.

Swap airgroups to airplanes that convert or export To stop Bf109E3s and Bf109E7s from exporting take them out of the pool and into airgroups - and in this case keep autoswap and upgrade only options off. This was largely done with withdrawing airgroups which meant we could double up with the next point.

Downgrade airgroups withdrawing soon Some fighter groups though withdraw so soon in the game that they will be leaving with some fighters still in them. In these cases we downgraded them as quickly as possible and then used them as much as possible until they did go - at least then they would leave with the older types of fighters and as few of them as possible. This has to be done by manual swaps and the the table below shows the 16 manual swaps we did with fighter groups up to turn 37 (turn number of swap on left). In some cases this included upgrading some non-withdrawing groups so that older models were then in the pool for withdrawing airgroups to downgrade to




Swap airgroups withdrawing soon to just over half their complement
Another way of reducing the number of aircraft being withdrawn is to swap withdrawing airgroups when only just over half their maximum size is in the pool. Here are some examples from this game

Turn 5

We started the turn with 143 Bf109E3s in the pool - enough to swap four airgroups plus one last one for only 23 aircraft

At the start of turn 5 IJG53 had 36 fighters and was set to withdraw in three turns

But after four other manual swaps to Bf109E3 IJG53 was also swapped to Bf109E3 but for only 23 of them, not 40. In other words this swap alone reduced the number of aircraft being actually withdrawn by 13!


Turn 12

We did a similar thing in turn 12 when we saw we had 20 Bf109E7s in the pool

To be able to swap a German fighter group with a maximum of 40 planes we need to swap it to at least over half its maximum or 21 planes in this case. But we did not quite have enough in the pool. However one of the Bf109E7 airgroups was a stab with only 3 Bf109E7s - by manually upgrading it we were left with 23 in the pool which we then used for a manual swap.

By choosing the right time for swaps, with perhaps a few swaps with stab groups to help, you can always leave any airgroup with only just over half their maximum number.

Conclusion

By following all these methods we have been able to drastically reduce the numbers of German single seat fighters lost to withdrawals, and also the numbers lost to conversions or exports. Instead we have a much larger pool of Bf109F2 fighters which will remain there until we want them. Most of our airgroups are now equipped with Bf109F-4s, although we do have a tail of withdrawing fighter air groups equiped with only Bf109E3 or Bf109E7s and which are far below their maximum size. As a consequnce our air OOB totals look deceptively low. Some thought has to be taken over percentage required to fly in air doctrine for these too.

Compared to an Axis player who leaves all their airgroups on the default autoswap and replacement on settings and does no manual airswaps, and given the numbers already described above, I think it is a fair estimate that we will have at least 1000 more German single seat fighters. Although this comes from simply not being withdrawn, exported or converted the effect is the same as if we had built over 1000 extra fighters for Germany!

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(in reply to leverkuhn)
Post #: 599
RE: 8MP Managing the Air - 8/2/2018 2:39:49 PM   
redrum68

 

Posts: 509
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline
Really interesting optimization to minimize loses to withdraws/conversions/exports within the current system. Though the first thing that comes to mind for me is that the withdraw/conversion/export systems should probably work differently to avoid being able to do some of these things as they seem pretty gamey (German commanders weren't planning months in advance to minimize number/type of planes that fighter groups that would withdraw or pushing all planes into the field to minimize what's in the pool to be converted/exported).

Withdraw: I wonder if it would be a better system if withdraw just removed the unit and returned all its equipment to the pool? Should randomness be added to which units will be withdrawn so its less known/static?

Conversion/export: Should the number to convert/export instead be based on the overall number the nation has (pool and in units) rather than just what's in the pool?

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 600
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