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RE: Latest SR - 2/14/2017 9:25:26 AM   
bradinggs


Posts: 348
Joined: 7/17/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

Why not some monthly-subscription plans for some extensions instead? Pay to use, unpay when no longer needed.

I know this will complicate things, but at least the game can list all the features as long as players can pay for them. That also comes with consistent funding by subscription, and to disable instead of delete the non-paid functions.


Yeah, the only thing with this is compliance with various country laws regarding consumer rights. There are legal challenges that could appear. I'd think its less of a legal minefield to focus on carefully picking future features to put in than to take out. There are some seriously strict consumer laws out there that can cost companies millions and even close them down.

EDITED TO JUST ADD: I think I did read that the removal of the recent feature/s are under discussion though since people starting objecting so maybe something will change. Lets hope its all stays positive for the players. Thanks guys.




< Message edited by bradinggs -- 2/14/2017 9:45:42 AM >

(in reply to Dysta)
Post #: 31
RE: Latest SR - 2/14/2017 10:34:05 AM   
ColonelMolerat

 

Posts: 479
Joined: 9/23/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dysta

Why not some monthly-subscription plans for some extensions instead? Pay to use, unpay when no longer needed.

I know this will complicate things, but at least the game can list all the features as long as players can pay for them. That also comes with consistent funding by subscription, and to disable instead of delete the non-paid functions.


I really don't like this idea, sorry - one of the things that I like about single-player strategy games is, once you've made the outlay, you've got the game. You don't need the internet, you don't need to keep paying, you bought a game and it will remain playable whatever else happens. I'd hate to find a feature I like, then have to keep paying for it or see it go.

DLCs are different. I don't like how some games out there pump out DLCs so frequently it feels like you need a subscription, but within reason I don't have a problem. I don't mind occasional, big 'expansion-pack' DLCs, and I don't mind CMANO's current approach of cheap, additional, high-quality missions. With both of those approaches, once you've bought them, you own them and you don't have to keep running on the subscription treadmill.

As for the original point of this thread...

I liked the recorder in theory, but actually used it very rarely. That said, I'm still a little unhappy at the concept of removing existing features from the retail edition - but I'll hang back and watch how it all develops. I'm not passionate enough about it to want to get embroiled in this storm, and hopefully it'll all blow over one way or another soon enough.

< Message edited by ColonelMolerat -- 2/14/2017 10:36:01 AM >

(in reply to bradinggs)
Post #: 32
RE: Latest SR - 2/14/2017 10:56:14 AM   
Apocal

 

Posts: 85
Joined: 11/14/2004
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I didn't even realize this was a feature.

(in reply to ColonelMolerat)
Post #: 33
RE: Latest SR - 2/14/2017 11:08:18 AM   
Dysta


Posts: 1894
Joined: 8/8/2015
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Well, all I can say is... this simulator has potentials, I play what it gives me, and that is.

Expecting more comes with price, literally and effortfully. We can suggest, but we can't beg. Just... Bradinggs is right, stay positive and play on.

_____________________________


(in reply to Apocal)
Post #: 34
RE: Latest SR - 2/14/2017 11:27:51 AM   
Demetrious

 

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quote:

I'm curious, you state that you had your doubts once before, so I assume you are like the rest of us and not a developer or something related to that, how do you know all this stuff?


I just read their devblogs, actually. And the forum natter (search "runway damage" and you'll see what I mean vis a vis the care put into runway modeling.) But mostly their own wordpress blog over on their site, wafaresims.com. The "generational" abstraction for fixing ECM is here. Note the following quote:

quote:

We investigated these reports, and concluded that the fundamental problem was that our radar/ECM formulas, while technically quite accurate, failed to take into account the various counter-countermeasures (and counters to them, and counters to the counters, ad naseum…) that are applied by both radars and the jammers that target them. Discretely incorporating these techniques in a public-domain simulation is tricky, not least because non-classified information is scarce, both on the details of these techniques and also as to which system supports which tricks.


You can multiply that issue by ten for anything involving communication jamming, because in the modern context this is a lot more than just jamming voice communications on a VHF radio - you're talking about jamming digital datalinks and all sorts of ~classified~ stuff. Radar, however, has been around a lot longer, and the physics of it are pretty well known - even AESA is just a new wrinkle on an old equation (which is why PESA arrays are still around, as they can do most of what AESA can do; it's nowhere near worth the expense to replace the AN/SPY-1s on existing Burkes, for example.) And yet, even with that, the generational tweaking is needed to account for things such as older Soviet radars being long "compromised," i.e. everyone knows the very intricate details of how they work, so jammers can be programmed with specific "attacks" that are very useful at overwhelming them. That's just one example of how age degrades a radar when up against a modern jammer, for instance. Modern datalinks and commo? Hooo.

Read all their devblogs - it's a fantastic window into the development process, and the challenges and considerations they have to tackle.

quote:

You are correct. Many amateurs in China are actually very fond on CMANO, and they made one of a scenario in attempt to sink Liaoning Carrier by US recently. Sparked hundreds of redirects and thousand replies all over military fan communities.


This would explain much... I post over on the "weapons" board of 4chan, "/k/," where the phrase "my scenario stands" has become a board in-joke because of the frequency with which one particular Chinese poster would use it after presenting a CMANO scenario result proving the great and terrible might of the PLAN. Of course this sometimes backfires, but I can attest to CMANO being popular as an analysis tool on that side of the Pacific.

EDIT: I just read that grogheads.com thread and good heavens that was a lot of bellyaching. I suppose none of them have lived through a few years of following Kerbal Space Program's development

< Message edited by Demetrious -- 2/14/2017 11:47:06 AM >

(in reply to cdcool)
Post #: 35
RE: Latest SR - 2/14/2017 12:18:33 PM   
kevinkins


Posts: 2099
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Record/Playback functionality is probably the least used feature among the commercial community. It's value is almost entirely symbolic, whereas things like WEGO MP the advanced strike planner, and scenario editor would certainly make a more attractive Professional Edition if they exclusive to that product.


Agree. Will LIVE sales suffer w/o replay?

Additionally, trying to predict the evolving business model of a niche software company based on limited info is a waste of time. What is predictable is that web forums love conspiracy theories.

Kevin

(in reply to poaw)
Post #: 36
RE: Latest SR - 2/14/2017 12:40:23 PM   
bradinggs


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Out of interest, how do you rollback a version update with steam edition?

(in reply to kevinkins)
Post #: 37
RE: Latest SR - 2/14/2017 9:12:21 PM   
ColonelMolerat

 

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In other games, you right-click the game in your library, then click properties. Then you choose the 'betas' tab and choose the previous version you want as though it is a beta.

This doesn't seem possible with CMANO though.

(in reply to bradinggs)
Post #: 38
RE: Latest SR - 2/15/2017 11:51:22 AM   
Peter66

 

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I originally wasn't going to comment on this topic but decided I should.

My views are that if something doesn't make it to our (commercial?) version and is instead listed as a PE only feature, I'm fine with that. Taking away an existing feature and then saying we can't have it back because it's PE only... That I don't agree with. If a feature is in it should stay in.

I will continue to support CMANO and it's devs because I believe they are some of the most helpful I've ever come across. I just hope this is a one off and things will be more clear from now on.

(in reply to ColonelMolerat)
Post #: 39
RE: Latest SR - 2/15/2017 2:00:09 PM   
HaughtKarl

 

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Would cream my shorts for the ability to export to Tacview. What a seriously cool feature to watch your scenarios play out in a 3D environment.

(in reply to poaw)
Post #: 40
RE: Latest SR - 2/15/2017 2:45:29 PM   
bradinggs


Posts: 348
Joined: 7/17/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColonelMolerat

In other games, you right-click the game in your library, then click properties. Then you choose the 'betas' tab and choose the previous version you want as though it is a beta.

This doesn't seem possible with CMANO though.


Hmm thanks for confirming ColonelMolerat. So its not possible to roll back any versions on Steam if we ever feel like a recordable moment. Well... ah well yeah... aaah I'm off to make coffee.

(in reply to ColonelMolerat)
Post #: 41
RE: Latest SR - 2/15/2017 3:53:42 PM   
cdcool


Posts: 633
Joined: 1/25/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
Guy's, the reality of the situation: The Developers can do whatever they want whenever they feel like it. You choose to live with it and support them or move on and not be bothered.
Good communication is the key to keeping new and existing customers happy, but they don't have to do that either. You may or may not be disappointed again. It's up to them on how they treat their Professional and Commercial customers.
Do I think it was right the way the change was communicated? NO, and it wasn't, but that's a choice they made, I assume they thought about that before they decided to make the change and post it.
It all points back to corporate/company culture, with software gaming companies the approach is all over the place from outstanding to very very bad on how they decide to treat their customers. If you don't like it, you only have two options, unfortunately.
You have to make a decision.


< Message edited by cdcool -- 2/15/2017 3:56:36 PM >

(in reply to bradinggs)
Post #: 42
RE: Latest SR - 2/15/2017 4:56:39 PM   
Primarchx


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I'll side with the Devs on this one. Continued support for the player was in place until a build some time ago for the public version. They continue to support it for the pro version since then for a premium. And we've continued to get excellent spiral development and support of a game most of us paid cash for once in 2013. When do you think the last free update/expansion to Battlefield 4, a game also released in 2013, happened?

(in reply to poaw)
Post #: 43
RE: Latest SR - 2/15/2017 6:53:49 PM   
Rocksoldier

 

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I also side with Devs on this... if this funcion has much value for professional edition it's better to keep that as an exclusive (so they can make more money out of it)

Let's say you have the choice:

1)keep the last release with the function enabled but will never get any update.

2)always get the last updated version of the game including new features but record function will be disabled.

Is there anyone that would pick number 1?


(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 44
RE: Latest SR - 2/15/2017 7:03:43 PM   
cdcool


Posts: 633
Joined: 1/25/2005
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rocksoldier

I also side with Devs on this... if this funcion has much value for professional edition it's better to keep that as an exclusive (so they can make more money out of it)

Let's say you have the choice:

1)keep the last release with the function enabled but will never get any update.

2)always get the last updated version of the game including new features but record function will be disabled.

Is there anyone that would pick number 1?




I don't see them doing #1, it's a selling point for the Professional version, maybe they are charging a new client for that. I personally don't think it would make a difference either way if they offered it in both versions considering all the other stuff the Professional has to offer in addition to customization per client, not unless it cost money to include that feature or they are charging for it.

(in reply to Rocksoldier)
Post #: 45
RE: Latest SR - 2/15/2017 9:38:31 PM   
LuckyJim1010

 

Posts: 260
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I'm more interested in the other things they could have taken out.

Are we to look forward to degraded, or removed algorithms that the professional edition customers don't like seeing in the game?

Perhaps something that shows their latest all singing, all dancing weapon system to be totally ineffective against it's primary target by the game code ?


(in reply to cdcool)
Post #: 46
RE: Latest SR - 2/15/2017 9:52:40 PM   
ExNusquam

 

Posts: 503
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From: Washington, D.C.
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Personally, this reminds me of another feature from a different simulator: Player-controlled JTACs in DCS A-10C. This was a feature that was initially available in the early betas. It was then removed (in Beta 3 IIRC), at the request of the USAF, since they didn't want it in the commercial version. People generally understood - without USAF support the simulator likely wouldn't exist. The feature didn't come back (and then as a paid add-on) for several years until DCS combined arms was released.

I assume the situation with Command is similar. While the simulator doesn't owe it's existence to the defense industry directly, the developers do need a source of income in the very niche, very saturated market for wargaming. The Losing a small feature is a reasonable price to pay for continuous updates. And optional updates, at that. If the replay feature is super critical to you, just don't upgrade.

(in reply to LuckyJim1010)
Post #: 47
RE: Latest SR - 2/16/2017 2:17:08 AM   
magi

 

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i dont know what were talking about.... so i feel pretty good about the way things are....

(in reply to ExNusquam)
Post #: 48
RE: Latest SR - 2/16/2017 7:17:11 AM   
AlGrant


Posts: 908
Joined: 8/18/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: magi
i dont know what were talking about.... so i feel pretty good about the way things are....

Well said - fully agree.

The game I have now has far more features, units and accuracy than the game I purchased.
I was happy with it then ...... I'm even happier with it now.


(in reply to magi)
Post #: 49
RE: Latest SR - 2/16/2017 12:26:17 PM   
Zaslon

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 6/14/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlGrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: magi
i dont know what were talking about.... so i feel pretty good about the way things are....

Well said - fully agree.

The game I have now has far more features, units and accuracy than the game I purchased.
I was happy with it then ...... I'm even happier with it now.



We know that both still haven't a clue about the key point. Of course, we feel pretty good about the development. These guys are amazing. Some people (I guess that both of you too) colaborate making scenarios and improving CWDB and DB3K,helping to improve this incredible product. That's nice and all we agree. That's not the point here.

The point here is:
Deleting a feature from the actual product, creates a big uncertainty. This is the first of a long list? or only an exception. Warfaresims must release a Statement making it crystal clear, without any doubt (all statements still aren't very clear...like "I don't think so". We can forget that they are retiring a feature listed in the product website if it's an exception. But..If it's the standard from now?

I also recommend to Matrix, retire the recorder from the feature list in any product page or marketing product.

quote:

The Developers can do whatever they want whenever they feel like it.

I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.


_____________________________


Kids think about Iran and Amateurs think about Russia, but professionals think about China

(in reply to AlGrant)
Post #: 50
RE: Latest SR - 2/16/2017 2:26:26 PM   
stilesw


Posts: 1378
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
Status: offline
Come on guys. I feel that kevinkin's comment on 8Feb17 is well said: it's best to enjoy the richest of what Command is and not get too caught up in what it isn't.

We are the user community with a state-of-the-art military simulation that has been created through tremendous thought and effort. Let's get over this and appreciate what we have and the continuing development effort!

-Wayne Stiles

(in reply to Zaslon)
Post #: 51
RE: Latest SR - 2/16/2017 4:18:08 PM   
cdcool


Posts: 633
Joined: 1/25/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.


From the U.S., There is no Contract, I haven't read their Terms and Conditions but obviously, they can and they did, so you are saying they broke the law? There may be an NDA.


< Message edited by cdcool -- 2/16/2017 4:21:07 PM >

(in reply to Zaslon)
Post #: 52
RE: Latest SR - 2/16/2017 7:09:03 PM   
Zaslon

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 6/14/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cdcool

quote:

I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.


From the U.S., There is no Contract, I haven't read their Terms and Conditions but obviously, they can and they did, so you are saying they broke the law? There may be an NDA.


Yeap, I am sure that in the United States there are something called Consumer Rights (there are in the EU). And from the US come the threat... Your people loves to sue for anything.

When you buy a thing , the sale is like a contract. You have rights and obligations and they also have rights and obligations (do you remember the Warranty and refunds?

I know that this is not a proper conversation for a forum. The problem was highlited and I hope that Mike, Dimitris, Paul...are adviced about the problem. Oh wait, it's a Matrix Games problem....So forget it.







< Message edited by Zaslon -- 2/16/2017 7:10:08 PM >


_____________________________


Kids think about Iran and Amateurs think about Russia, but professionals think about China

(in reply to cdcool)
Post #: 53
RE: Latest SR - 2/16/2017 7:22:17 PM   
TheCabal


Posts: 107
Joined: 1/2/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stilesw

Come on guys. I feel that kevinkin's comment on 8Feb17 is well said: it's best to enjoy the richest of what Command is and not get too caught up in what it isn't.

We are the user community with a state-of-the-art military simulation that has been created through tremendous thought and effort. Let's get over this and appreciate what we have and the continuing development effort!

-Wayne Stiles


Even if I'm new here and my opinion hasn't got too much of a weight I like stilesw post, he's right. We should be happy that it's going forward with an effort not known in other more mainstream categories. I remember the horrible days (let's say years..) of waiting for another hardcore combat flight simulation to come out... until DCS came and some awesome people reviving Falcon 4.0 to the maximum at the same time.

The truth is, it all could be way worse especially for Harpoon/CMANO... and look how it survived the decades.

Is one missing feature more worse than no CMANO at all?

Greetings,
Cabal

< Message edited by TheCabal -- 2/16/2017 7:26:18 PM >

(in reply to stilesw)
Post #: 54
RE: Latest SR - 2/16/2017 7:44:26 PM   
cdcool


Posts: 633
Joined: 1/25/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zaslon

quote:

ORIGINAL: cdcool

quote:

I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.


From the U.S., There is no Contract, I haven't read their Terms and Conditions but obviously, they can and they did, so you are saying they broke the law? There may be an NDA.


Yeap, I am sure that in the United States there are something called Consumer Rights (there are in the EU). And from the US come the threat... Your people loves to sue for anything.

When you buy a thing , the sale is like a contract. You have rights and obligations and they also have rights and obligations (do you remember the Warranty and refunds?

I know that this is not a proper conversation for a forum. The problem was highlited and I hope that Mike, Dimitris, Paul...are adviced about the problem. Oh wait, it's a Matrix Games problem....So forget it.




That depends on what you are buying guy..LOL warranty and refunds still exist for some products and services. Yeah you right forget it.

(in reply to Zaslon)
Post #: 55
RE: Latest SR - 2/16/2017 8:14:33 PM   
Rory Noonan

 

Posts: 2560
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
While I am truly grateful that there is a game like CMANO, I also don't think that we should just blindly accept anything from the developers because 'some CMANO is better than no CMANO'.

That said, it is clear that some customers are unhappy, and I imagine the devs take that seriously. No doubt they have learned from the experience and if a similar situation crops up again in the future it will be handled with the experience this situation has brought.

(in reply to cdcool)
Post #: 56
RE: Latest SR - 2/19/2017 2:32:01 PM   
chops

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 12/16/2012
Status: offline
This interview gives some interesting insight into what we can expect:

Wargamer: Let's end on a bit of a tough question. CMANO is in many ways a game with two identities – the 'PRO' version being developed for real-world militaries, and the original videogame as an entertainment product. If CMANO could only be one thing, which direction would you want to go?

Paul Bridge: Either Or? That's a hard one. I would abstain... but I'd like it to go PRO. The civilian version has been out for 3 years now, which is quite old in videogame terms. We're looking at pushing that version 2 out. With a small team, my preference would be to go PRO, but as the team gets bigger we can push more people onto the Civilian side to continue development.

The PRO version is completely separate from the civilian version, it's only for military organisations, defence contractors etc... Their specific needs will be catered for. With a lot of military contractors they won't want their data getting to the public domain. There could even be a specific version of PRO for a specific company, which won't be seen by other companies.

The Civilian side may get some trickle-down in terms of features, but it won't have the full functionality. Take Communications Jamming, for example. The PRO version will have the full spectrum of tools and options available to them, but the Civilian version will just be an on/off switch – you're either jamming them or you're not.

(in reply to Rory Noonan)
Post #: 57
RE: Latest SR - 2/19/2017 3:29:49 PM   
Zaslon

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 6/14/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cdcool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zaslon

quote:

ORIGINAL: cdcool

quote:

I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.


From the U.S., There is no Contract, I haven't read their Terms and Conditions but obviously, they can and they did, so you are saying they broke the law? There may be an NDA.


Yeap, I am sure that in the United States there are something called Consumer Rights (there are in the EU). And from the US come the threat... Your people loves to sue for anything.

When you buy a thing , the sale is like a contract. You have rights and obligations and they also have rights and obligations (do you remember the Warranty and refunds?

I know that this is not a proper conversation for a forum. The problem was highlited and I hope that Mike, Dimitris, Paul...are adviced about the problem. Oh wait, it's a Matrix Games problem....So forget it.




That depends on what you are buying guy..LOL warranty and refunds still exist for some products and services. Yeah you right forget it.

Looks like you do not understand the point...You need to read a lot about it in order to get the point. For this reason, yeah, I am right. You must forget it because you wont make the effort to understand it (its crystal clear reading your last message).
See ya and enjoy the game.


_____________________________


Kids think about Iran and Amateurs think about Russia, but professionals think about China

(in reply to cdcool)
Post #: 58
RE: Latest SR - 2/19/2017 7:07:27 PM   
cdcool


Posts: 633
Joined: 1/25/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zaslon


quote:

ORIGINAL: cdcool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zaslon

quote:

ORIGINAL: cdcool

quote:

I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.


From the U.S., There is no Contract, I haven't read their Terms and Conditions but obviously, they can and they did, so you are saying they broke the law? There may be an NDA.


Yeap, I am sure that in the United States there are something called Consumer Rights (there are in the EU). And from the US come the threat... Your people loves to sue for anything.

When you buy a thing , the sale is like a contract. You have rights and obligations and they also have rights and obligations (do you remember the Warranty and refunds?

I know that this is not a proper conversation for a forum. The problem was highlited and I hope that Mike, Dimitris, Paul...are adviced about the problem. Oh wait, it's a Matrix Games problem....So forget it.




That depends on what you are buying guy..LOL warranty and refunds still exist for some products and services. Yeah you right forget it.

Looks like you do not understand the point...You need to read a lot about it in order to get the point. For this reason, yeah, I am right. You must forget it because you won't make the effort to understand it (its crystal clear reading your last message).
See ya and enjoy the game.


You are correct, I don't get what you stating or what you are trying to say and I probably read just as much or more than you, as far as the effort that's another assumption you can't make. You enjoy the game as well.

(in reply to Zaslon)
Post #: 59
RE: Latest SR - 2/19/2017 7:25:10 PM   
cdcool


Posts: 633
Joined: 1/25/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chops

This interview gives some interesting insight into what we can expect:

Wargamer: Let's end on a bit of a tough question. CMANO is in many ways a game with two identities – the 'PRO' version being developed for real-world militaries, and the original videogame as an entertainment product. If CMANO could only be one thing, which direction would you want to go?

Paul Bridge: Either Or? That's a hard one. I would abstain... but I'd like it to go PRO. The civilian version has been out for 3 years now, which is quite old in videogame terms. We're looking at pushing that version 2 out. With a small team, my preference would be to go PRO, but as the team gets bigger we can push more people onto the Civilian side to continue development.

The PRO version is completely separate from the civilian version, it's only for military organisations, defence contractors etc... Their specific needs will be catered for. With a lot of military contractors they won't want their data getting to the public domain. There could even be a specific version of PRO for a specific company, which won't be seen by other companies.

The Civilian side may get some trickle-down in terms of features, but it won't have the full functionality. Take Communications Jamming, for example. The PRO version will have the full spectrum of tools and options available to them, but the Civilian version will just be an on/off switch – you're either jamming them or you're not.

Makes since

(in reply to chops)
Post #: 60
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