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Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 3:48:31 PM   
Macclan5


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Corridors of Allied Advance.

Having tried my completed my first instance of this game I am curious if anyone has any good AAR references where different/ unique Allied Corridors of Advance were utilized ?

Personal Observations welcome from experienced players as well.

I am curious to learn and experiment.

I personally was guided by historical example in my first game and so wish to contemplate other options.

Summary of what I know:

• Kurlies / Northern Pacific corridor (Greyjoy vs Rader)

• Traditional Central Pacific corridor (Rumble in Southwest WITPQS)

• Traditional Northern New Guinea/Philippines corridor (Many / Various)

• “ABDA” - Darwin / Timor / Celebes corridor (See You in Tokyo Bay Apbarog)

Are there any specific AARs or experience you have read / seen / could comment on ?

• Burma / Indonesia / China / Korea ? i.e. in depth push and warfare through this theater.

• Indonesia / Borneo and on wards

• Others I have not even contemplated ?

Regards


< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 2/2/2017 3:49:44 PM >


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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 4:21:01 PM   
BBfanboy


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Several Allied players have managed to break through in Burma and sweep Indochina with British/American armour. The problem is that everything bogs down in China because of the poor transportation network and poor supply flow. Until you win some Chinese ports on the South China Sea ops move slowly. And it is hard to bring ships in to the SCS when the Japanese control the air in the Sumatra, Malaya, Philippines, Borneo, and Taiwan areas.

So at some point the land-war advance has to have a naval war advance to support it. And naval ops need nearby bases at which to replenish and repair. So you are back to island or coast-hopping. A few players tried operating B-29s from western China, but supply limits their ops too.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 4:42:18 PM   
Lokasenna


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There are several games (well, at least 2) that involved landings at Sabang. Canoerebel's, and mine, although at vastly different times (I think 2 years apart, in-game). I've also gone through SWPAC, but what really broke the game open was the western front. However, that was all set up by the slower pace of the thrusts elsewhere on the map. You can't just pick one axis of advance as the Allies*. You have to use several.

*Later on, I suppose you totally can - once you have 80 APAs and 15 CVs with all their supporting ships, you could simply perform invasion after invasion after invasion on a single axis, but if you wait until then you may not have enough time to achieve a victory condition.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 4:43:13 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Several Allied players have managed to break through in Burma and sweep Indochina with British/American armour. The problem is that everything bogs down in China because of the poor transportation network and poor supply flow. Until you win some Chinese ports on the South China Sea ops move slowly. And it is hard to bring ships in to the SCS when the Japanese control the air in the Sumatra, Malaya, Philippines, Borneo, and Taiwan areas.

So at some point the land-war advance has to have a naval war advance to support it. And naval ops need nearby bases at which to replenish and repair. So you are back to island or coast-hopping. A few players tried operating B-29s from western China, but supply limits their ops too.


I've not had a problem with supply in China (thus far). It has taken a couple of days at times for the 10K's of supply needed to flow up to the next base, but the Magic Coast Road works for both sides.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 5:37:36 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You have to use several.



@ Loka

Yes of course

I was merely curious if anyone noted in a AAR a focused corridor of advance other than the historical.. and opinions of course.

I foresee potential pitfalls as I ponder the map and wonder how others overcame them.

@ BB

I have of course also followed Witpqs advances through China from his landing in Cahm Ran Bay as well ; and I note your comments there - full of insights.

His push from CRB I would opine became more than perhaps he anticipated. A rip roaring success.

However has any AAR ever targeted an amphibious landing at Victoria Point for example as a primary corridor ?

Perhaps further south Kuala Lampur.... again I see many pitfalls there....

( not the least of which may require holding Port Blair or Sabang / Medan for air superiority unless US Carriers are deployed that far west ... I do not think the British Fleet can manage it on their own)








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A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 6:47:08 PM   
dave sindel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You have to use several.



@ Loka

Yes of course

I was merely curious if anyone noted in a AAR a focused corridor of advance other than the historical.. and opinions of course.

I foresee potential pitfalls as I ponder the map and wonder how others overcame them.

@ BB

I have of course also followed Witpqs advances through China from his landing in Cahm Ran Bay as well ; and I note your comments there - full of insights.

His push from CRB I would opine became more than perhaps he anticipated. A rip roaring success.

However has any AAR ever targeted an amphibious landing at Victoria Point for example as a primary corridor ?

Perhaps further south Kuala Lampur.... again I see many pitfalls there....

( not the least of which may require holding Port Blair or Sabang / Medan for air superiority unless US Carriers are deployed that far west ... I do not think the British Fleet can manage it on their own)








I'm a newbie, up to July 1943 in my first PBEM Campaign game. So this is a newbie's tale of an invasion gone awry. In November of 1942, I succumbed to a case of " I've got to do SOMETHING" fever and landed at Victoria Point. Paratroops took Chumpon and Surat Thant. I owned Port Blair AND Sabang. It turned into an absolute debacle. I took the 3 bases easily enough and sent air groups in to provide CAP. But I didnt have enough aircraft to keep up with losses, and not enough AV support to fix the damaged ones. LRCAP efforts were useless, early war Allied fighters dont have the range. Betty's killed all of my resupply efforts. I lost a bunch of xAP's and xAK's and about half of my British battleships as well. It was a great learning experience for me, on how NOT to do things. I keep eyeing this portion of the map as a way to outflank my opponent in Burma, so I think there's still merit to landing here. Just don't do it with early war units.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 7:39:19 PM   
BBfanboy


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Yeah, command of the air is the key to all advances in this game. Island hopping uses distance and CV cover to negate Japanese air advantage until you get your own bases set up.

I've never used the Chindits boldly to smash enemy LOC far in the rear, but I might try it in my current game. It's the aerial resupply part that makes me antsy.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 7:52:08 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

• “ABDA” - Darwin / Timor / Celebes corridor (See You in Tokyo Bay Apbarog)

Are there any specific AARs or experience you have read / seen / could comment on ?




Another AAR with an "ABDA" Allied advance is "Road to Tokyo" Mr Kane vs. Spidery. The AAR (and the game??) was stopped in May 2015 after the Japanese player (Spidery) had a serious accident and hospitalization. But by that time the Allies were in very good shape. Mr Kane conducted operation "Bigfoot" in mid 1943 with a massive assault on Java at the port of Tjilatjap. This led to the reconquest of most or all of Java fairly quickly and the Allied power expanded northward from there. It's a really good AAR (not to take anything away from apbarog as both his game and AAR are also very good).

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 7:52:53 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Yeah, command of the air is the key to all advances in this game. Island hopping uses distance and CV cover to negate Japanese air advantage until you get your own bases set up.

I've never used the Chindits boldly to smash enemy LOC far in the rear, but I might try it in my current game. It's the aerial resupply part that makes me antsy.


It's easier to supply them than it is for them to take a base. You can use bombers for resupply if you have to, and supply missions can be undertaken at a much longer range (half of maximum range, which is typically in the upper-10s, vs. just normal range, which is typically 10).

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/2/2017 7:56:19 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

• “ABDA” - Darwin / Timor / Celebes corridor (See You in Tokyo Bay Apbarog)

Are there any specific AARs or experience you have read / seen / could comment on ?




Another AAR with an "ABDA" Allied advance is "Road to Tokyo" Mr Kane vs. Spidery. The AAR (and the game??) was stopped in May 2015 after the Japanese player (Spidery) had a serious accident and hospitalization. But by that time the Allies were in very good shape. Mr Kane conducted operation "Bigfoot" in mid 1943 with a massive assault on Java at the port of Tjilatjap. This led to the reconquest of most or all of Java fairly quickly and the Allied power expanded northward from there. It's a really good AAR (not to take anything away from apbarog as both his game and AAR are also very good).


Good reference! Mr. Kane is one of those players that takes bold leaps and is willing to sacrifice pixeltruppen to get a new position. His AARs are always fascinating. I think he set up an air bridge to China using every transport and bomber he could spare from Ledo and nearby bases. The Chinese started winning battles!


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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/3/2017 4:38:18 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5
• Kurlies / Northern Pacific corridor (Greyjoy vs Rader)

That one was not a classical Northern route as GJ did not perform island hopping through Aleuteans->Kuriles, instead coming from south east effectively directly to Hokkaido exploiting Rader's negligence

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/6/2017 1:59:21 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

There are several games (well, at least 2) that involved landings at Sabang. Canoerebel's, and mine, although at vastly different times (I think 2 years apart, in-game).


Reference or link for one of those AARs ??? Please ??

Sabang especially intrigues me albeit I forsee:

1) The Need for Port Blair as your strong side defense
2) CAP from Blair and or CV
3) The RN maybe incapable of providing sufficient CAP so a ton of engineers to get an airbase up very quickly / AA
3) or USN CVE / CVL air cap ?

< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 2/6/2017 2:02:57 PM >


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A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/6/2017 2:02:37 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Another AAR with an "ABDA" Allied advance is "Road to Tokyo" Mr Kane vs. Spidery. The AAR (and the game??) was stopped in May 2015 after the Japanese player (Spidery) had a serious accident and hospitalization. But by that time the Allies were in very good shape. Mr Kane conducted operation "Bigfoot" in mid 1943 with a massive assault on Java at the port of Tjilatjap. This led to the reconquest of most or all of Java fairly quickly and the Allied power expanded northward from there. It's a really good AAR (not to take anything away from apbarog as both his game and AAR are also very good).



Thank you very much.

I had not read that AAR and indeed a worth great link.



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A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/6/2017 3:30:23 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

There are several games (well, at least 2) that involved landings at Sabang. Canoerebel's, and mine, although at vastly different times (I think 2 years apart, in-game).


Reference or link for one of those AARs ??? Please ??

Sabang especially intrigues me albeit I forsee:

1) The Need for Port Blair as your strong side defense
2) CAP from Blair and or CV
3) The RN maybe incapable of providing sufficient CAP so a ton of engineers to get an airbase up very quickly / AA
3) or USN CVE / CVL air cap ?



Personally, I think that Sabang is a horrible place to start an invasion. It is too isolated; the nearest base is what - four hexes away? - while the enemy has several major airfields within fighter range. A good place for an invasion allows you to quickly set up multiple mutually supporting airbases, IMO. Otherwise you are leaving your fleet exposed for too long a time, which can lead to an army being left high and dry on its own.

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fair winds,
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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/6/2017 4:15:19 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

There are several games (well, at least 2) that involved landings at Sabang. Canoerebel's, and mine, although at vastly different times (I think 2 years apart, in-game).


Reference or link for one of those AARs ??? Please ??

Sabang especially intrigues me albeit I forsee:

1) The Need for Port Blair as your strong side defense
2) CAP from Blair and or CV
3) The RN maybe incapable of providing sufficient CAP so a ton of engineers to get an airbase up very quickly / AA
3) or USN CVE / CVL air cap ?


I sent the entire USN, less a barebones fighting force left in others theaters and ships that arrived or finished repairs after the time had passed to shift everything else to the IO. I had previously taken Port Blair, but it's not strictly necessary.


I'd actually be curious to see if anybody has done a bolt from the blue invasion of Java. It has a similar target profile to Sumatra and some potential beaches are farther from supporting airfield networks (like Malaysia).

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/6/2017 4:16:40 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay


quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

There are several games (well, at least 2) that involved landings at Sabang. Canoerebel's, and mine, although at vastly different times (I think 2 years apart, in-game).


Reference or link for one of those AARs ??? Please ??

Sabang especially intrigues me albeit I forsee:

1) The Need for Port Blair as your strong side defense
2) CAP from Blair and or CV
3) The RN maybe incapable of providing sufficient CAP so a ton of engineers to get an airbase up very quickly / AA
3) or USN CVE / CVL air cap ?



Personally, I think that Sabang is a horrible place to start an invasion. It is too isolated; the nearest base is what - four hexes away? - while the enemy has several major airfields within fighter range. A good place for an invasion allows you to quickly set up multiple mutually supporting airbases, IMO. Otherwise you are leaving your fleet exposed for too long a time, which can lead to an army being left high and dry on its own.


This all depends.

In my case, my opponent was committed elsewhere and nearby airbases were more or less empty. Sabang itself had been built to a level 8, so once it was in Allied hands it was easy to establish enough aerial protection to continue the advance.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/6/2017 5:47:27 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I'd actually be curious to see if anybody has done a bolt from the blue invasion of Java. It has a similar target profile to Sumatra and some potential beaches are farther from supporting airfield networks (like Malaysia).


Mr Kane's AAR "Road to Tokyo" that I referenced earlier in the thread qualifies, I believe. He waited until June or July 1943 and then came in with everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, to Tjilatjap. That's my memory of it, anyway; I'll concede it's been almost 2 years since I read the AAR.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/6/2017 6:22:01 PM   
MrKane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I'd actually be curious to see if anybody has done a bolt from the blue invasion of Java. It has a similar target profile to Sumatra and some potential beaches are farther from supporting airfield networks (like Malaysia).


Mr Kane's AAR "Road to Tokyo" that I referenced earlier in the thread qualifies, I believe. He waited until June or July 1943 and then came in with everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, to Tjilatjap. That's my memory of it, anyway; I'll concede it's been almost 2 years since I read the AAR.


Not all but a still a lot, I was advancing on central pacific too.

Spidery AAR: http://www.matrixgames.com/Forums/tm.asp?m=3454012&mpage=1&key=
MrKane AAR: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3708063&mpage=1&key=

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/6/2017 6:29:07 PM   
MrKane


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Here AAR describing how I have to fight GreyJoy landing at southern DEI and on Sumatra next.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3373344&mpage=1&key=Nov%2C18th%2CKate%2Cstrikes%2Cfinally%2Cturn

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/12/2017 6:42:17 AM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I'd actually be curious to see if anybody has done a bolt from the blue invasion of Java. It has a similar target profile to Sumatra and some potential beaches are farther from supporting airfield networks (like Malaysia).


Rob Brennan and I have done this a couple of years ago. Sadly neither of us had the time and patience to consistently maintain an AAR, the one we had was updated spradically and anecdotally.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2608600&mpage=17

We initially landed at Tjilatiap. It was part of a global move at that stage in the war to open up as many contact points to IJ as possible - with beneficial sideeffect of threatening the SRA.

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/12/2017 2:01:56 PM   
PaxMondo


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Mr. Kane did it ... I forgot who his opponent was in that game ...

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RE: Allied Corridors of Advance - 2/12/2017 6:40:45 PM   
AW1Steve


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I still like the "multi-approach" approach. If you can hit him from 5 different directions , in opposite directions sequentially you'll absolutely drive your opponent nuts. He's got overwhelming power in the KB till mid 1943....but it CAN'T be everywhere. He will either have to not respond to some areas (and hopefully wear out planes, pilots and CV's trying to respond) or (even better) have to divvy up the KB. And two CV's you can easily kill. Even in early 1942. The choice is his , but make him sweat over it.

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