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RTB question - 12/19/2016 2:34:59 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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The Flankers in the pic when RTB but as you can see both fuel and weapons are OK. Cancelling using the U key had not effect. After digging I found the mission weapon state was set to 'Use loadout setting' so I changed it to Winchester. Problem fixed.

The loadout setting used was 'Shotgun: RTB after one engagement with both BVT and WVR weapons'. Now the question, what is the reason behind this loadout it seem pretty silly to me when the aircraft still have a little less than half their weapons left. Bear in mind I'm not a modern weapons man so a lot of this stuff is all new?






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RE: RTB question - 12/19/2016 3:38:48 PM   
Tailhook

 

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Most of my air to air engagements in CMANO have an aircraft using half its ordnance, be it a low capacity F-35 or higher capacity Flanker, to win the fight. This setting keeps that same patrol that is now more vulnerable from going up against a force say twice as large with full loadouts. It's a better option for sustained, low intensity BARCAPs and the like. Less so when there is two regiments of Backfires coming in hot and you need every plane and every missile and bullet.

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RE: RTB question - 12/19/2016 3:41:47 PM   
Dimitris

 

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This is a configurable doctrine setting, isn't it ?

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RE: RTB question - 12/19/2016 6:21:08 PM   
Gunner98

 

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MiG-31's firing their AA-9s when they have a range advantage and then buggering off before the F-14/18 can close in and kill them with better maneuverability.

DOTS - Depends on the Situation.

B

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RE: RTB question - 12/19/2016 8:27:04 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

The Flankers in the pic when RTB but as you can see both fuel and weapons are OK. Cancelling using the U key had not effect. After digging I found the mission weapon state was set to 'Use loadout setting' so I changed it to Winchester. Problem fixed.

The loadout setting used was 'Shotgun: RTB after one engagement with both BVT and WVR weapons'. Now the question, what is the reason behind this loadout it seem pretty silly to me when the aircraft still have a little less than half their weapons left. Bear in mind I'm not a modern weapons man so a lot of this stuff is all new?







Ah good subject. There are millions of load out configurations that could happen and there are always going to be slight deviation that just don't work. The good news is that this option is configurable so you're not stuck with one you don't like or think is "stupid" or whatever. I'd read on air ops abit an get more comfortable with what they are and why they are.

Thanks!

Mike



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RE: RTB question - 12/20/2016 5:31:33 AM   
Dimitris

 

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See here for an overview on the various Winchester & Shotgun states: http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4182

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RE: RTB question - 12/20/2016 10:45:14 AM   
Cik

 

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unfortunately (fortunately)? most of the scenarios i've played use "use loadout setting" and unfortunately (fortunately?) many of THOSE use "shotgun: RTB after one BVR engagement" which is not a bad setting, as far as it goes; but in about 80% of scenarios it is a bad setting, because if you are turkey-shooting a more numerous but technologically inferior foe (as often is the case in C:MANO scenarios) you will win every engagement but lose the war as the downtime of your aircraft will prevent you from keeping control of the skies.

tl;dr: very conservative shotgun settings are excellent for engagements where the enemy is very dangerous and/or very good at evading your missiles, but wastes a lot of time in maintenance & refit. AFAIK you can just change the setting for your side to winchester, if you think that it fits the scenario best. however that has it's own disadvantages (i'm looking at you canary's cage AIM9-JULI equipped harriers that like to stick around after AMRAAMs are expended and get wasted by moroccan F-16 at BVR)

i kind of wish there were percentage based shotguns. "shotgun: RTB after 80% of BVR weapons expended" would be pretty nice. i don't think that's in the game, is it?

< Message edited by Cik -- 12/20/2016 10:47:08 AM >

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RE: RTB question - 12/20/2016 12:15:27 PM   
Gunner98

 

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A scalable setting is not in the game but an excerpt from the link above:

Shotgun: 25% of relevant weapons have been expended. Disengage immediately – Disengage after 1/4 of mission-specific weapons have been expended.
◾Shotgun: 25% of relevant weapons have been expended. Allow targets of opportunity, including air-to-air guns – Same as above, but if easy targets or threats are nearby then shoot at those too. Also engage bogies with guns (applies to air-to-air (A/A) loadouts only).
◾Shotgun: 50% of relevant weapons have been expended. Disengage immediately – Disengage after half of mission-specific weapons have been expended.
◾Shotgun: 50% of relevant weapons have been expended. Allow targets of opportunity, including air-to-air guns – Same as above, but if easy targets or threats are nearby then shoot at those too. Also engage bogies with guns (applies to air-to-air (A/A) loadouts only).
◾Shotgun: 75% of relevant weapons have been expended. Disengage immediately – Disengage after 3/4 of mission-specific weapons have been expended.
◾Shotgun: 75% of relevant weapons have been expended. Allow targets of opportunity, including air-to-air guns – Same as above, but if easy targets or threats are nearby then shoot at those too. Also engage bogies with guns (applies to air-to-air (A/A) loadouts only).

Seems to give fairly good flexibility - sure it's not 80% as you were asking about but 75% is not too far of. By using these settings and various missions, i.e have platform specific missions with platform specific settings, you can get pretty granular with your direction and not have to get into micromanaging your assets too much.

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RE: RTB question - 12/20/2016 12:19:43 PM   
Cik

 

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ah, that's fine then. it's been a while since i've played so i forgot if that was a thing or not. the most important thing is just being able to make sure that you are riding the line between "inefficient because planes are RTBing with too much ordnance" and "inefficient because planes are engaging with too little ordnance (and dying)"

< Message edited by Cik -- 12/20/2016 12:20:08 PM >

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RE: RTB question - 8/24/2021 4:35:33 PM   
nukkxx5058


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

The Flankers in the pic when RTB but as you can see both fuel and weapons are OK. Cancelling using the U key had not effect. After digging I found the mission weapon state was set to 'Use loadout setting' so I changed it to Winchester. Problem fixed.

The loadout setting used was 'Shotgun: RTB after one engagement with both BVT and WVR weapons'. Now the question, what is the reason behind this loadout it seem pretty silly to me when the aircraft still have a little less than half their weapons left. Bear in mind I'm not a modern weapons man so a lot of this stuff is all new?


Hi, Thanks for the fix.
However, you say:
quote:

The loadout setting used was 'Shotgun: RTB after one engagement with both BVT and WVR weapons'


Where (in which screen) do you see the loadout setting ?

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Post #: 10
RE: RTB question - 8/24/2021 4:39:21 PM   
thewood1

 

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Do you mean where to set the winchester/shotgun setting?

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RE: RTB question - 8/24/2021 5:03:28 PM   
OldSarge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

The Flankers in the pic when RTB but as you can see both fuel and weapons are OK. Cancelling using the U key had not effect. After digging I found the mission weapon state was set to 'Use loadout setting' so I changed it to Winchester. Problem fixed.

The loadout setting used was 'Shotgun: RTB after one engagement with both BVT and WVR weapons'. Now the question, what is the reason behind this loadout it seem pretty silly to me when the aircraft still have a little less than half their weapons left. Bear in mind I'm not a modern weapons man so a lot of this stuff is all new?


Hi, Thanks for the fix.
However, you say:
quote:

The loadout setting used was 'Shotgun: RTB after one engagement with both BVT and WVR weapons'


Where (in which screen) do you see the loadout setting ?


There are several places, one is the Database Viewer for the platform, another is the Air Operations menu - see picture. The doctrine shown in the Air Ops window is based upon the current side/mission doctrine. The Ready/Arm window also shows the current doctrine for the various loadouts available to the platform.




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< Message edited by OldSarge -- 8/24/2021 5:47:27 PM >


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Post #: 12
RE: RTB question - 8/24/2021 6:52:54 PM   
nukkxx5058


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Thank you OldSarge. But can't we edit it ?

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RE: RTB question - 8/24/2021 6:56:28 PM   
nukkxx5058


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058

Thank you OldSarge. But can't we edit it ?

Ok, this was a stupid question. It's in the Mission doctrimne screen (the "fix" mentioned above)
:-)

Thank you !

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RE: RTB question - 8/25/2021 6:30:17 PM   
OldSarge


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For anyone interested P Gatcomb did a tutorial for the CMO Doctrine Settings useful to take a look at.

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You and the rest, you forgot the first rule of the fanatic: When you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy.
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RE: RTB question - 8/25/2021 10:09:55 PM   
thewood1

 

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His tutorials should be watched by all new players. I go back and watch some of them now and then and still find a lot of new stuff.

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