Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 10:04:25 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14921
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

warspite1

Not to forget the other nationalities, of which the Polish and Czech contribution stands out.



To me, the nationality that most stands out is the Australian contingent. 21 participants with 14 fatalities? That's a pretty high ratio. Vagaries of war, training, unit issues, being outnumbered, what?

Maybe they were in Wirraways ...
I think a lot depended on where your squadron was situated. The Aussies might have been near the south coast where Me109s could reach and dogfight.
There wasn't much time for training either, so the quality of training may have played a part.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 151
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 11:51:10 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5272
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline
It appears that the Australians were all pilots within the RAF: that is none served in RAAF squadrons. It would therefore seem that they flew the same sorts of aircraft as flown by regular RAF pilots: mostly Spitfires and Hurricanes. I would imagine that training played a part in why their casualties were so high since they had completed their initial training in Australia, presumably on such hot platforms as Wirraways. I might add that checking a number of websites it seems that the actual number of Australian participants in the Battle of Britain is the subject of some dispute: it seems that 10 Australian fighter pilots may have been KIA and that the others of the "14" were actually bomber crew attacking the German landing barges/channel ports.

An interesting website:

ttp://www.battleofbritainmemorial.org/squadron-logbook/australias-few-and-the-battle-of-britain/

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 152
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/8/2017 4:57:07 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 42181
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

warspite1

Not to forget the other nationalities, of which the Polish and Czech contribution stands out.



To me, the nationality that most stands out is the Australian contingent. 21 participants with 14 fatalities? That's a pretty high ratio. Vagaries of war, training, unit issues, being outnumbered, what?
warspite1

Simply put it seems that no one knows the actual number of Australians that took part in the battle. Why the confusion?

– Aussies were scattered amongst RAF Squadrons (the first RAAF squadrons did not appear in the UK until 1941).
- 'Australian citizens' did not exist until 1949. Passports designated those born in Australia as British subjects.
- There is also the added problem of what constituted an Australian as opposed to, for example, a Briton born here and sent to Australia or an Australian born of British parents who considered themselves British. With nothing on any official document to say otherwise I guess its not difficult to see where the confusion arises.
- Recent research shows one Australian was in fact Irish!

So how many?

The official historian for the RAAF’s activities states “some 30 Australians” served in fighter command, a figure used by Stephen Bungay in his excellent The most Dangerous Enemy.

The lowest figure appears to be 21 (taken from research in 1955 by an RAF officer who checked up on those who received the clasp to the 1939-45 medal to show service with fighter command that summer). At the other end of the scale 37 appears to be the highest number suggested. Other websites contain numbers in between.

And all that is before even starting to work out the casualty numbers!










_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 153
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/8/2017 3:00:02 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
"Of the total of 537 RAF Fighter Command pilots who died at least ten were Australian. Another four who were enlisted in the Royal Australian Air Force also died. Twenty-five Australians were considered eligible for the Battle of Britain. Others flew during the battle with RAF Bomber Command and Coastal Command but the total number involved in the battle did not exceed 35. Eight Australians became air aces by shooting down five or more enemy aircraft. In total about 100 Australians helped Britain."


In the Monty Python Squadron some Australians were used as tail-gunners.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 154
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/8/2017 8:26:05 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6328
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
As to the training of Australian pilots, many went to the UK and served pre-war in the RAF and would have received the same training. This excellent pre-war scheme provided the RAF with a group that formed a solid core of its wartime leaders.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 155
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/8/2017 8:29:07 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6328
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
From https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/blog/battle-of-britain?search

The vast majority of men and women who participated in the Battle of Britain were Britons themselves, but members from the other Allied countries made significant contributions to the aerial victory over the Luftwaffe. Pilots from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India, South Africa, Rhodesia, Jamaica, and the British Mandate of Palestine all flew aerial operations during the battle, as did French, Belgian, and Czechoslovakian aircrew. Volunteers from the United States comprised three Eagle Squadrons attached to Fighter Command, and Poland contributed pilots and aircrew for three whole squadrons. The Hurricane pilots of No. 303 (Kosciuszko) Squadron RAF claimed no less than 126 aerial victories over German aircraft during the three-month campaign. Having lost their own country to the German invaders, Polish pilots were renowned for their daring in fighting for Britain, which they called "last hope island". A saying at the time went: "If you want a short life and a glorious death, fly with a Polish airman."

Australia too can be proud that it contributed to the defence of Britain in that crucial summer and autumn, flying operations with Fighter Command, Bomber Command, and Coastal Command. One Australian who flew in Fighter Command during the battle was Flight Lieutenant Pat Hughes of Cooma, New South Wales, who had at least fifteen and half credited kills to his tally and was among the top ten leading aces of the time. Like many of the Australians who flew during the Battle of Britain, Hughes had been a pre-war member of the Royal Australian Air Force, but had transferred to the Royal Air Force under the Short Service Commission Scheme in 1937. He was attached to No. 234 Squadron RAF and flew air cover operations in Spitfires over airfields in Plymouth, and later conducted long distance missions in the Atlantic Ocean and over the Mediterranean Sea. On 15 August 1940, Pat Hughes claimed a double victory of two Messerschmitt Bf110 heavy fighters which earned him the Distinguished Flying Cross. He was killed less than three weeks later, on 7 September 1940, intercepting a large formation of Dornier bombers and their escort of Messerschmitt fighters over Kent.

Thirty-five Australians flew combat operations during the Battle of Britain, of whom ten were killed in action. They were among the airmen immortalised by British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in his powerful tribute to the men of Fighter Command: "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."


Also https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/encyclopedia/battle_of_britain?search

Twenty-five Australians were considered eligible for the Battle of Britain clasp to the 1939–45 Star. Others flew during the battle with RAF Bomber Command and Coastal Command but the total number involved in the battle did not exceed 35. Eight Australians became air aces by shooting down five or more enemy aircraft. Pat Hughes from Cooma had 14 successes, which puts him among the ten leading aces of the battle.

Of the total of 537 RAF Fighter Command pilots who died at least ten were Australian. Another four who were enlisted in the Royal Australian Air Force also died.


< Message edited by JeffK -- 6/8/2017 8:31:41 PM >


_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 156
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/12/2017 10:55:38 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 6149
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

....and the tanks too. How many divisions relied upon Czech tanks? and French tanks were also used (although I don't know if the latter equipped panzer divisions.


There were enough Czech tanks to equip ~two German Panzer divisions at the time of the 'Battle of France' (May 10, 1940). French tanks were used later on, but from what I know it looks like most were supplied to Germany's allies. One exception IIRC was the reconstitution of the 21st (Africa Corps) Panzer division. Some veterans of North Africa requested the division be reconstituted. They were allowed to do so, but they were told no German assets were available, so they used French tanks. I think this outfit was the one German armored unit to engage on D-Day. The one that split the British beaches and nearly made it to the coast. Withdrew due to lack of support, or so the story goes. That is if my memory doesn't fail me... Again.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 157
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/20/2017 7:09:53 AM   
patrickl


Posts: 1530
Joined: 6/20/2002
From: Singapore
Status: offline
I went to see the movie Dunkirk this morning. I must say it is a very good movie. I cried abit.

_____________________________


Banner designed by rogueusmc

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 158
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/20/2017 8:53:28 AM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

....and the tanks too. How many divisions relied upon Czech tanks? and French tanks were also used (although I don't know if the latter equipped panzer divisions.


(...) French tanks were used later on, but from what I know it looks like most were supplied to Germany's allies. One exception IIRC was the reconstitution of the 21st (Africa Corps) Panzer division. Some veterans of North Africa requested the division be reconstituted. They were allowed to do so, but they were told no German assets were available, so they used French tanks. I think this outfit was the one German armored unit to engage on D-Day. The one that split the British beaches and nearly made it to the coast. Withdrew due to lack of support, or so the story goes. That is if my memory doesn't fail me... Again.


Only chassis of french armoured vehicles were used.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Becker#Paris_Baukommando_Becker




_____________________________


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 159
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/20/2017 9:31:50 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10376
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
Hans von Luck had been commander of Rommel's recon unit during the invasion of France and was later a commanded of recon forces in North Africa. When Rommel was put in charge of the Normandy defenses he made von Luck one of the regional commanders who happened to be responsible for Normandy. Because there was so much need for armor in Russia, there was very little available for the defense in France. von Luck had a brilliant engineering officer who scoured France and found the chassis of a number of French tanks that were under construction when France fell and had just been left to collect dust. He got a number of them operational and turned them into tank destroyers. Those were the French made vehicle chassis that engaged the Allies in Normandy. Attrition pretty much consumed them in the Normandy campaign.

Hans von Luck wrote a book after the war. I found it quite interesting.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Skyland)
Post #: 160
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/20/2017 2:20:27 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1474
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline
Hi Bill; the book of Hans von Luck is in the bibliography of the Wiki article above mentioned by "Skyland" about Major Becker.

Another book in that same list I'd be particularly interested to read is "Bernage, Georges and Jean-Pierre Benamou, Goodwood: Bombardement géant anti-panzers. Editions Heimdal, (1994) ISBN" even though in French.

I happened to read so many interesting discussions here about the efficiency of tactical carpet bombing, that some more referenced and actual detailed information may help (Ad. John Cochrane, thinking about you also).

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 161
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/20/2017 3:08:42 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1474
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyland


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

....and the tanks too. How many divisions relied upon Czech tanks? and French tanks were also used (although I don't know if the latter equipped panzer divisions.


(...) French tanks were used later on, but from what I know it looks like most were supplied to Germany's allies. One exception IIRC was the reconstitution of the 21st (Africa Corps) Panzer division. Some veterans of North Africa requested the division be reconstituted. They were allowed to do so, but they were told no German assets were available, so they used French tanks. I think this outfit was the one German armored unit to engage on D-Day. The one that split the British beaches and nearly made it to the coast. Withdrew due to lack of support, or so the story goes. That is if my memory doesn't fail me... Again.


Only chassis of french armoured vehicles were used.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Becker#Paris_Baukommando_Becker





Something like that...there's a whole German newsreel (whom the picture is taken from) of Rommel's inspection of a self propelled battery of the 21th Panzer, equipped with the French chassis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjmfscuAqLU






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Skyland)
Post #: 162
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/20/2017 8:57:44 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14921
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online
Looks like they took the wheels off of a PAK 75 a/t gun and dropped it on the French tank chassis. No turret, but the gun got more mobile and gained some height which would help if the tank body could stay hull-down at the crest of a hill/berm.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 163
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/20/2017 9:06:00 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4231
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
Becker, a mechanical engineer, instituted a program of converting captured vehicles and weapons into usable instruments for the German army.

quote:

A company called Alkett, based near Berlin, converted 12 Lorraine 37L tractors into 10.5cm leFH-18/40 auf Geschuetzwagen Lorraine Schlepper(f) self-propelled artillery guns in 1942. They were a large manufacturer of armored fighting vehicles for the German Army during World War Two. German Army Major Alfred Becker worked with the company to create these conversions. The following year he was in Normandy at the head of a Baukommando, a construction command unit. Becker’s men, engineers and mechanics converted a further 12 Lorraine 37L tractors into self-propelled artillery gun by fixing 10.5cm leFH-18/40 howitzers onto the top of these vehicles and making an armored open crew compartment.

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/Nazi-Germany.com/105mm_leFH-18-40+auf_Geschuetzwagen_Lorraine_Schlepper-f.php



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 7/20/2017 9:07:16 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 164
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/20/2017 9:11:38 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14921
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online
Yikes- that gun must weigh as much as the chassis! Don't drive across a slope with it!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 165
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/23/2017 6:14:20 PM   
SheperdN7


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/23/2016
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada (Lives in Brandon, MB)
Status: offline
Saw it 2 nights ago, 10/10 and Have seen it 3 more times since (and I paid for all 4 screenings) I absolutely loved this movie and I think directors everywhere should bow down to Nolan's genius.

_____________________________

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve"- attributed to Isoroko Yamamoto

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 166
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/23/2017 6:25:38 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42181
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

Saw it 2 nights ago, 10/10 and Have seen it 3 more times since (and I paid for all 4 screenings) I absolutely loved this movie and I think directors everywhere should bow down to Nolan's genius.
warspite1

I saw it Friday and loved it too. Will be taking both my little cruisers for an imax screening this week

There are some reviews in the GD forum

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4280098&mpage=2�

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to SheperdN7)
Post #: 167
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/23/2017 6:56:14 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21096
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
I don't know how I can show my face here, but I didn't like it very much. I thought it "okay."

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 168
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/23/2017 6:58:16 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42181
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't know how I can show my face here, but I didn't like it very much. I thought it "okay."
warspite1

Why? Lots of people don't seem to have liked it. You're entitled to your opinion!


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 169
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/23/2017 8:42:34 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25196
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't know how I can show my face here, but I didn't like it very much. I thought it "okay."

As our GD posts will attest, I'm in your camp here too, CR. I thought it a worthwhile movie, but it wasn't what I was looking for / expecting and I was at least mildly disappointed.

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 170
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/23/2017 8:54:01 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 14921
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't know how I can show my face here, but I didn't like it very much. I thought it "okay."

I saw your other comments on the movie. Sounds like you were hoping for a historians overview of what was happening and what the implications of the evacuation were. From comments on late night TV by Kenneth Branaugh and another actor, the director's purpose was to show how a courageous people united in courage came to stand up to a great evil and saved their country.

The personal courage of civilians and military people alike was the focus rather than the historic strategic withdrawal. Like the AARs on this forum that have captured personal stories amid the chaos of war, I look forward to seeing "what it was like" because I already know the overview of what happened. Haven't gone yet because I want to see it with my son who is in Ottawa at a national karate training seminar.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 171
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/23/2017 9:06:06 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25196
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't know how I can show my face here, but I didn't like it very much. I thought it "okay."

I saw your other comments on the movie. Sounds like you were hoping for a historians overview of what was happening and what the implications of the evacuation were. From comments on late night TV by Kenneth Branaugh and another actor, the director's purpose was to show how a courageous people united in courage came to stand up to a great evil and saved their country.

The personal courage of civilians and military people alike was the focus rather than the historic strategic withdrawal. Like the AARs on this forum that have captured personal stories amid the chaos of war, I look forward to seeing "what it was like" because I already know the overview of what happened. Haven't gone yet because I want to see it with my son who is in Ottawa at a national karate training seminar.


In my opinion, the Director's approach was inherently flawed in an effort to convey any sort of grandeur. I read an interview with the director before I saw the movie and I know he avoided Churchill's speech until the end and intentionally downplayed the numbers on the beach. He sought to downplay the numbers involved to focus on individual heroism and courage. I guess that's his call.

But talking about an evacuation of 300,000 men whilest showing no more than a few hundred on the beach belies the miraculous scale of the evacuation. If his effort was to belie or ignore the miraculous scale of the real event by focusing on the individual story exclusively, then I consider that an opportunity missed. For the near complete evacuation of so large a number of men *was* the story of Dunkirk. It was the reason that Britain was able to resist later in 1940-1941. Not a few heroic and brave individuals' efforts, as compelling and interesting as they were.

I will also add that my favorite vignette was the civilian boat that was requisitioned with the father and two boys. That dynamic was very well played and deeply touching. Probably my favorite segments.

My least favorite were the beach segments. I felt those were comparatively poorly executed-for the reasons above (lack of scale) and implausibility.



_____________________________


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 172
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/24/2017 12:51:11 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
I didn't like it either. In fact, I walked out after one hour. The movie reminds me of another movie that promised similar accuracy... TMTSNBN.

I thought there was very little historical accuracy. I was expecting something more along the lines of Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan or The Pacific.

The back and forth between the day air combat scenes and the night torpedo attack scenes and back left me completely confused. It was like those scenes were on opposite ends of the world. The port at night was totally lit up, no black out in evidence. The aerial combat scenes didn't ring true either.

So no, I didn't like it.

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 173
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/24/2017 2:41:45 AM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1067
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline
I thought they cheaped out on special effects....with the ability to generate computer visuals and effects this was a limp effort. Also I wonder if they got a deal for Kenneth Branaugh to stand in the same place for whole movie.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 174
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/24/2017 4:22:35 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 24785
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
Even though obviously many liked it those observations are disappointing. The surrounding story and the scale of Dunkirk is amazing. A series of close-in scenes cannot do that justice. I'll wait to see it on TV.

Did any of you see it in Imax?

_____________________________


(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 175
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/24/2017 4:42:18 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 42181
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Even though obviously many liked it those observations are disappointing. The surrounding story and the scale of Dunkirk is amazing. A series of close-in scenes cannot do that justice. I'll wait to see it on TV.

Did any of you see it in Imax?
warspite1

I saw it on 'normal' but will be watching in imax on Wednesday so will let you know if there is any noticeable difference. I suspect there will be - the high pitched scream of the Ju-87's was impressively scary as it was, so I am expecting an even greater experience (although never having viewed in imax before, I'm not completely sure what to expect!).


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 176
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/24/2017 4:57:51 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 42181
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I saw your other comments on the movie. Sounds like you were hoping for a historians overview of what was happening and what the implications of the evacuation were. From comments on late night TV by Kenneth Branaugh and another actor, the director's purpose was to show how a courageous people united in courage came to stand up to a great evil and saved their country.

The personal courage of civilians and military people alike was the focus rather than the historic strategic withdrawal. Like the AARs on this forum that have captured personal stories amid the chaos of war, I look forward to seeing "what it was like" because I already know the overview of what happened. Haven't gone yet because I want to see it with my son who is in Ottawa at a national karate training seminar.
warspite1

I hope the film is what you are expecting. I didn't know what to expect - I hadn't read comments from Nolan or Branagh or anyone pre-watching, but having seen the film I think you are right to approach it as you are. This is not a film that seeks to tell the overall story of Dunkirk. In the same way that Stalingrad did not tell the story of Case Blue, Pearl Harbor did not tell the story of the Hawaiian operation (or anything else) or Battle of the Bulge did not tell the story of Wacht Am Rhein, Dunkirk does not give the viewer an historical blow by blow account of the evacuation, but instead focuses on individual elements of that operation. Perhaps one of the things that disappoints people is that it doesn't focus on the most important element of Dunkirk (the destroyers were responsible for 2/3rds of the those rescued) - but I think that this does not detract from the quality of the film. There is some interesting evidence emerging that suggests the RAF contribution to success was much greater than the 'myth' suggests - if true, it was nice for the 'flyboys' to have their overdue place in the sun.

What I can say imo is that unlike the three examples mentioned above (where the title suggests a full story of the battle/campaign is to be relayed), Dunkirk was actually worth watching - and then some! (it wasn't excruciatingly dull like the former, good when one is ten years old like the latter, and a steaming pile of dung like the other one) and I certainly can't wait for Wednesday when I see Mark Rylance, Tom Hardy (the sound and look of those Spitfires are worth the admission money alone) and co go into battle again .

The approach adopted by Nolan will satisfy some (a great many according to imdb) and not others* (including some 'Russian commentators' who say the film celebrates cowardice - they obviously seem not to have heard of Odessa, where a Soviet army, trapped against the sea, was evacuated to live to fight another day and more important battles to come rather than populate a German prisoner of war camp ), and that's fine, we all have different expectations/hopes - not to mention political footballs to kick .

My eldest little warspite is really looking forward to it - I love taking her to these sort of things to build on her burgeoning interest in history - and I hope the wait proves worthwhile for you and your son too .


* Apparently, its not just the 'Russians' a French journo is angry because Dunkirk neglects the French contribution. He clearly is looking for a faux reason to be outraged. Dunkirk is a film about the British experience at Dunkirk. Even so, because of the interplay between the British and French forces it is fitting to make reference to the French out of a sense of fairness. But the point is, THIS FILM DOES SO.

To say it neglects the French - when the opening shot shows FRENCH ONLY soldiers manning the perimeter (while the retreating British soldier is motioned on to the beach as the French continue fighting), when it mentions during the action (despite the limited dialogue) that the French soldiers are manning the perimeter and when it mentions at the end of the film that the British wait longer to try and get more French (who have been manning said perimeter) off - is simply false and is just looking for a sense of outrage where none is necessary or warranted.

To be fair its not just 'the French'. If you recall certain sections of the British media got all huffy because Saving Private Ryan didn't mention British/Canadian involvement on D-Day. This despite the fact that Saving Private Ryan, although set in Normandy was a story about a deeply personal American experience; it was based on a true story and was about a rule that was brought in for US servicemen following the loss of FIVE Sullivan brothers on USS Juneau. Sure, the film could've included acknowledgement to the British and Canadians, but it didn't and there was just no reason to necessarily include them. It wasn't an insult. But hey - people nowadays love playing the victim don't they?




< Message edited by warspite1 -- 7/24/2017 6:41:55 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 177
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/24/2017 8:43:31 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 23515
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I saw it Friday and loved it too. Will be taking both my little cruisers for an imax screening this week

There are some reviews in the GD forum

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4280098&mpage=2�


I hope to see it soon!

BTW, I read that the French are not that pleased with the movie (i.e. downplaying of French rearguard that held the Germans plus fact that there were French soldiers evacuated as well)...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 178
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/24/2017 1:31:08 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4955
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
I have not seen it, yet. But perhaps the best thing of this movie was a news shot describing the opening, and then going on to have a 5 minute interview with a 90+ year old gentleman living here in Denver who was there, on the beach. Drafted just 2 months before the war started, you could see him trying to describe it. After the collapse, he said his officers turned to them & said "Boys, you are on your own". Groups of men headed to the town, and the beach, more on rumor than anything else. Getting to the beach and collapsing because "I was done. I couldn't swim, you see". How a Scotsman swam him out to a small boat. Even on TV, tears, and the beginning of the thousand mile stare.

I've been there. But nothing like that.

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 179
RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 7/24/2017 6:28:42 PM   
Major Shane


Posts: 194
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
I saw the movie on Saturday. It was impressive, very well done by Nolan. He honored history and those who served. The dogfighting, the sound of the Stukas, and the sinking ships all made you feel as if you were there. I give it 5 stars and highly recommend it.

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 180
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.176