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RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR

 
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RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/20/2016 7:44:34 PM   
warspite1


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8th June 1940

Reinforcements

United Kingdom

The two fleet carriers HMS Illustrious and HMS Victorious arrive in Bristol

MPP Expenditure

UK - The British spend far too many points (almost 100) to get the HQ to sea and a Corps to France. The rest is spent bringing the BEF up to scratch and a few MPP on the RN....
French - I try and bring a few key units up to strength, although, like the British, there just aren't enough points....
USA - The USA have only 100 MPP and so go into save mode
USSR - The USSR have 25 MPP....




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/20/2016 8:12:49 PM >


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Post #: 151
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/20/2016 7:51:01 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

North Africa The Italian 10th Army, under Marshal Rodolfo Graziani, crosses the border into Egypt. I cannot see what has crossed and in what strength - and nor do I intend to go looking at present.

Maybe you should send the RN and scout the Italian forces. Maybe there is an opportunity to encircle the Italians and then eliminate them before the German units arrive. Might be nice to begin the defence of Egypt in Tobruk...
warspite1

I tried that in the last game. The Regia Marina has all its battleships and took the **** out of the RN. My troops couldn't even slightly hurt the Italians before the Germans arrived and swept me off the continent. I'm not doing that again.


Then use the French ships to lay a trap for the Italian fleet?
warspite1

a) they are in the south of France trying to assist the Armee des Alpes from being splattered.

b) if they get slaughtered I simply hasten the end for France as the National Morale nosedives.


A) Doesn't the French forces going to be splattered either way?

B) Isn't France already nosediving? Why not crush the Italian navy before the crash? Isn't it better that the French ships go down fighting the Italians rather than the RN?

Edit: Isn't there a chance that the Italian ships gets splattered instead with a increase of the French and UK morale as a result?

< Message edited by Orm -- 12/20/2016 7:54:19 PM >


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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 152
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/20/2016 7:57:55 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

North Africa The Italian 10th Army, under Marshal Rodolfo Graziani, crosses the border into Egypt. I cannot see what has crossed and in what strength - and nor do I intend to go looking at present.

Maybe you should send the RN and scout the Italian forces. Maybe there is an opportunity to encircle the Italians and then eliminate them before the German units arrive. Might be nice to begin the defence of Egypt in Tobruk...
warspite1

I tried that in the last game. The Regia Marina has all its battleships and took the **** out of the RN. My troops couldn't even slightly hurt the Italians before the Germans arrived and swept me off the continent. I'm not doing that again.


Then use the French ships to lay a trap for the Italian fleet?
warspite1

a) they are in the south of France trying to assist the Armee des Alpes from being splattered.

b) if they get slaughtered I simply hasten the end for France as the National Morale nosedives.


A) Doesn't the French forces going to be splattered either way?

B) Isn't France already nosediving? Why not crush the Italian navy before the crash? Isn't it better that the French ships go down fighting the Italians rather than the RN?

Edit: Isn't there a chance that the Italian ships gets splattered instead with a increase of the French and UK morale as a result?
warspite1

Not the way I play no.....

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/20/2016 7:58:15 PM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 153
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/20/2016 8:15:06 PM   
warspite1


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8th June 1940

France


The counterattack. The British land IX Corps and bring their units up to strength. Meanwhile the big question was what to do with the French. It was clear pretty quickly that Reims was not going to be re-taken. That being the case, Gamelin's attention turned to the warm cosy fire that was beckoning him from the back of the room. He sat down in front of it in his favourite chair with a steaming hot cup of cocoa on the table beside him, and quickly fell asleep....

General Weygand then took over and planned a counterattack against the XXI Corps in Verdun. Just about every French Army, and a few corps too, from the 2nd Army Group was involved and they suffered some heavy losses in total. However, the German corps was destroyed.

Most of the French troops north of the Marne then retreated behind the river. The Polish Corps was brought up to plug the gap to the west of Reims and 7th Army reinforced. 7th Army, nortwest of Reims, looks incredibly exposed now but someone had to be....


Verdun: The 'new' Verdun



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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/20/2016 8:52:03 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 154
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/20/2016 8:42:41 PM   
warspite1


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8th June 1940

France


On the Franco-Italian front, the Italian Army has driven a wedge between the two wings of the Armee des Alpes, but I feel I need to keep Toulon and Marseilles safe. Lyon too, but that is a little further away....and I can only cope with one problem at a time.

The six French battleships bombarded the Italian tank - all without any joy. I am only thankful they were not themselves hit.....

Naval War
I have sent both Canadian destroyers home to upgrade while the British and French continue to search in vain for the wolf packs.

The Wavell HQ sails alone for Egypt. The last lone fast convoy, carrying the 33rd Engineers, reached Egypt and the Engineer will shortly begin work - assuming the Italians don't attack first....

I remove the 2nd Submarine Flotilla for a couple of turns - and intend to return with the Home Fleet in due course (upgrades permitting)....


The bulk of the MPP have had to go north, but a few reinforcements have found their way to the southern front.




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/20/2016 8:59:24 PM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 155
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/20/2016 9:28:22 PM   
warspite1


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19th June 1940

France


Okay I am going to start off in Southern France here and a little moanette. The Italian Army is simply indestructible. Again - not one loss....

Right, that's my moan out of the way, what is the score? The Italians have switched attention from the Algerians to XV Corps, and have seriously damaged this unit. With a much reduced MPP income this turn, I think there is no choice but to pull back again.




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/20/2016 9:33:33 PM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 156
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/20/2016 9:44:21 PM   
warspite1


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19th June 1940

France


Just when you think you have a chance.... A combination of aircraft and tanks at Chalons wiped out the French 2nd Army (causing a perhaps fatal breach in the front), sheer weight of numbers have reduced the British II Corps at Amiens to almost nothing, and the French 7th and 8th Armies have been severely mauled by the endless infantry the Germans appear to have.




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/21/2016 6:25:16 AM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 157
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/21/2016 6:28:52 AM   
warspite1


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19th June 1940

United Kingdom and France


The U-Boats have announced their presence once again. They just missed my fast convoy heading for Egypt! Unfortunately with the Canadians in port, the remaining thin destroyer screen finds itself far to the north of the reported positions of the German boats......




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/21/2016 6:36:14 AM >


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Post #: 158
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/21/2016 6:46:00 AM   
warspite1


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19th June 1940

Soviet Union


The Soviets continue to expand their empire as agreed between Molotov and Ribbentrop.

First the Baltic States (without any menace, or coercion, honest) are made to feel the welcoming, and ample bosom of Mother Russia... then it was the turn of the Soviets to partake in the great Romanian carve-up. Romania had won massive territorial gains at the end of the First World War. Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina were just two of the territories they were forced to hand back.




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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 159
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/21/2016 6:48:05 AM   
warspite1


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30th June 1940

Reinforcements


None

MPP Expenditure

UK - The British spend their MPP on upgrading the navy as much as port capacity will allow. They also upgrade and reinforce a few other units - but there was not much left after the Navy took their share.
France - The French reinforce the armies and corps in Southern France.
USA - Nothing for the US.
USSR - What can you buy with 1MPP?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/21/2016 7:18:33 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 160
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/21/2016 8:18:04 AM   
warspite1


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30th June 1940

French and United Kingdom


The Wavell HQ continues to head south - and hopefully away from the prowling U-Boats....

I am able to find one of the U-Boats with two destroyer flotillas, but just to add to my general feeling of victimisation and feeling sorry for myself I get this:

British 11th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 0:0
French 7th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 1:1

Not winning anything at the moment.....

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 161
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/21/2016 8:24:35 AM   
warspite1


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30th June 1940

France


Weygand decides to try and get French troops in the Maginot Line back as quickly as possible. As a prelude the 6th Bombardment Group attacks the 5th Panzer in its exposed position south of the Marne. The French General Staff are all to aware that there is little chance of pinching out this bridgehead but they have to try. The 6th Bombardment Group achieve the results expected - absolutely nothing and the loss of half its aircraft....

3rd Army Group move first:
- XIII Corps takes up position in the town of Belfort.
- XLIV Corps moves to Epinal, leaving
- IX Corps to slot in between the two.

Before moving further French units the French put in a request for some assistance from Bomber Command in tackling 5th Panzer. The British agreed, which proved to be sub-optimal as bomber command lost no less than 7 points and scored no hits against the panzers.

Back to movement and it is clear that attacking the Germans leads to no good and so instead Weygand tries, to the extent possible, to bring French units back toward Paris. The town of Verdun is occupied by a sacrificial corps.

The British bring up their newly landed corps and remove II Corps from the line. They will hopefully soon be on their way to Blighty.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/21/2016 6:30:04 PM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 162
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/21/2016 8:27:57 AM   
warspite1


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30th June 1940

France


In the south the French Navy try and put some pressure on the Italian Army but achieves a big fat zero. Gunnery practice appears to be the order of the day for Gensoul's fleet.

The French try to hold a line on the north - south Axis Grenoble - Toulon. The depleted XV Corps withdraws to Marseilles and the Algerians slot in the line north of Toulon.

The need to move most of the army in the north means that there are a few MPP to spare for the Armee des Alpes this turn.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/21/2016 6:21:38 PM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 163
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/21/2016 6:54:09 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

British 11th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 0:0
French 7th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 1:1

Not winning anything at the moment.....


I'd count that as a win. You traded a soon to disappear French point for an Axis point the AI will have to spend MMPs on to fix.


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Post #: 164
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/21/2016 7:13:14 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

British 11th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 0:0
French 7th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 1:1

Not winning anything at the moment.....


I'd count that as a win. You traded a soon to disappear French point for an Axis point the AI will have to spend MMPs on to fix.

warspite1

True. But then I would have counted it as more of a win if at least one of them had been in line with prediction

Especially as the German sub just attacked and took out 4(!) points from the DD....


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/21/2016 7:33:18 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 165
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/21/2016 8:44:13 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

British 11th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 0:0
French 7th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 1:1

Not winning anything at the moment.....


I'd count that as a win. You traded a soon to disappear French point for an Axis point the AI will have to spend MMPs on to fix.

warspite1

True. But then I would have counted it as more of a win if at least one of them had been in line with prediction

Especially as the German sub just attacked and took out 4(!) points from the DD....



Ouch.... nasty that sub is.


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Post #: 166
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 5:18:21 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

British 11th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 0:0
French 7th Destroyer FL - expected 0:1 actual 1:1

Not winning anything at the moment.....


I'd count that as a win. You traded a soon to disappear French point for an Axis point the AI will have to spend MMPs on to fix.

warspite1

True. But then I would have counted it as more of a win if at least one of them had been in line with prediction

Especially as the German sub just attacked and took out 4(!) points from the DD....



Ouch.... nasty that sub is.

warspite1

Yes, apparently the wolf pack contains the following U-Boat captains:

Kretschmer, Prien, Schutze, Topp, Schultze, Schepke, Endrass and Luth.

I don't know who these guys are, but they seem to know their business....


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 167
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 5:23:18 AM   
warspite1


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7th July 1940

France

Another bad turn, but one that would have been much worse had I not put the French AOF West Africa Corps into Verdun. The brave colonial troops were of course wiped out but the Germans put a lot of effort - including their air force - into ensuring the destruction of the French unit. This action almost certainly stopped even worse carnage nearer Paris (notice how the German panzer formations were sent back to deal with this perceived threat).

3rd, 8th and 9th Armies are all incapable of even defensive operations and 3rd and 8th Armies need withdrawing before I can strengthen them. Hopefully 9th Army can be built up at least partially.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/22/2016 6:29:49 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 168
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 5:23:35 AM   
warspite1


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7th July 1940

France


The Italian Army is unstoppable - French bullets, even shells, seem to simply glance off their tanks and, according to some reports, even their troops. I just don't understand it.....


Italian Army. It's almost as if they have some secret weapon that makes them indestructible....



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/22/2016 6:21:31 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 169
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 6:35:36 AM   
warspite1


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7th July 1940

France


The French armies are again beaten back, but at least the corps in Toulon and in the mountains to the north, have not moved and so should have the advantage of entrenchment (2 and 3 respectively) to aid their defence. I have no idea what MPP will be left to spend in this theatre.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 170
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 6:45:21 AM   
warspite1


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Joined: 2/2/2008
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14th July 1940

Reinforcements


None

MPP Expenditure

UK - UK reinforce the BEF, a fighter group and continue to upgrade the navy.
France - The French have to move so many units so once again there is little to spend on - and yet there is still not enough MPP! Reinforcement of units remains the order of the day.
USA - The US research AA and Naval Warfare.
USSR - Still nothing with the USSR. They have a grand total of 41....




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/22/2016 8:43:18 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 171
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 7:45:01 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 42567
Joined: 2/2/2008
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14th July 1940

United Kingdom and France


Wavell continues on his lone voyage to Egypt. I decide to put the RN destroyers in to port for upgrade. One of them encounters a German wolf pack and they exchange points. I send a French destroyer in and they too exchange points.

The German surface fleet remains ominously quiet - does this mean they are preparing for a Sea Lion perhaps?

The Mediterranean Fleet are almost all upgraded - a couple more to go.

The French Fleet get bored of attacking the Italian Army and have a go at Genoa instead - with disastrous results. Dunkerque and Strasbourg turn their attention back to the army units on the coast and, at last, score a hit! [a choir of angels descends - HALLEJUJAH!!]

The depleted II Corps leaves France and is sent to sea alone bound for Egypt.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/22/2016 8:09:47 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 172
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 7:56:45 AM   
warspite1


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14th July 1940

France


The French undertake re-organisation of the front in order to try and save Paris.

- VIII Corps takes up position in Dijon
- XI Corps is used as a sacrificial rear-guard and heads to Strasbourg, where it sadly comes up against 1st Army and is severely mauled in the process.
- 3rd and 8th Armies are concentrated around Auxerre for reinforcing next turn (if possible).
- VI Corps takes up position northeast of Auxerre behind the Seine river.
- 4th Army, II Corps and 7th Army complete the units trying to hold the river.
- XLIV Corps take up position north of the river on the right flank to offer something to the Germans in order to desperately try and save the river line next turn.

At this point the French ask the British for assistance. The German 7th Flieger Division is sitting exposed northwest of Reims. The RAF's Blenheims and Battles of the AASF are ordered to attack this unit on the basis that the French bomber force will do the same. The attack is successful - albeit at some loss to the RAF bombers and their fighter escort. The big gamble is now - should the BEF attack this unit and try and destroy it - but risk suffering losses itself and being ripe for counter attack. Lord Gort orders the attack and the German unit is almost wiped out - at a cost of 2 points to the British. The French I Corps finish off the defenders.

- I Corps and the Polish Corps on their right flank are then ordered to remain in place. This heroic stand protects the British right flank but gives the Germans something else to consider when looking at targets next turn.

Sadly there are simply no MPP left for the Armee des Alps. General Olry asks Gamelin for reinforcements but all Gamelin can give him are his best wishes and a prayer book before falling asleep in front of the fire once more...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/22/2016 8:47:05 AM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 173
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 9:06:43 AM   
warspite1


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21st July 1940

Sadly I have to go to work now so no chance to write up the German turn. Here are the highlights....

- The BEF is destroyed and the Somme river line breached
- The Seine river line holds!
- Marseilles is about to fall - but Toulon holds

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/22/2016 9:07:15 AM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 174
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 9:26:43 AM   
loki100


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this 'work' thing is really getting in the way of your AARing. Good attack in N France, would think the longer term trade off is worth the cost?

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Post #: 175
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 6:11:04 PM   
Malor

 

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Warspite,

Please keep up the excellent AAR. I'm learning much about the game and various strategies from it.

Even learning what not to do is helpful.

Malor

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 176
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 7:10:46 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

this 'work' thing is really getting in the way of your AARing. Good attack in N France, would think the longer term trade off is worth the cost?
warspite1

Yes, I suspect the BEF would have been lost anyway - the Germans put a lot of effort into that attack. Regardless of whether its worth it, to be honest it was just nice to be on the attack for once!


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 177
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 7:12:22 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malor

Warspite,

Please keep up the excellent AAR. I'm learning much about the game and various strategies from it.

Even learning what not to do is helpful.

Malor
warspite1

To be honest, my AAR are usually about teaching peeps what not to do. I am a pretty hopeless wargamer - although I guess you worked that out for yourself by now


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Malor)
Post #: 178
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 8:35:28 PM   
Hartmann

 

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If not for the loss of the BEF, I think you actually did a good job up until that point. I like how you cautiously managed to retreat from the Maginot line keeping your frontline intact. Also you managed to destroy some German units which will be costly for them to repurchase. Finally it looks as if you might delay the capture of Paris considerably.

It's hard to disregard the loss of the BEF, though ...

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 179
RE: How the Axis could have won II. Allied AAR - 12/22/2016 9:35:43 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 42567
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartmann

If not for the loss of the BEF, I think you actually did a good job up until that point. I like how you cautiously managed to retreat from the Maginot line keeping your frontline intact. Also you managed to destroy some German units which will be costly for them to repurchase. Finally it looks as if you might delay the capture of Paris considerably.

It's hard to disregard the loss of the BEF, though ...
warspite1

Well I'll try not to lose the two Corps too but its not looking too hopeful


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Hartmann)
Post #: 180
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