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Axis only Adriatic ?

 
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Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/12/2016 7:36:56 AM   
kirk23


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I think there should be a restriction to Allied warships entering the Adriatic,the Adriatic should be an Axis only sea zone while Italy is still in the war.

I will give a very good reason why it would be considered a suicide mission for any Allied warships who attempted to enter the Adriatic,while Italy was an active member of the Axis.

The Royal Italian Submarine fleet was one of the largest in the world at that time, second only to that of the Soviet Union. It was involved in heavy action during the Second World War, serving mainly in the Mediterranean. At the outset of World War II : the Italian navy had 107 submarines. This was a significant number for any country of the period, and it represented a long term build up despite prevailing economic and political pressures.




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< Message edited by kirk23 -- 12/12/2016 7:46:28 AM >


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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/12/2016 8:54:43 AM   
Hartmann

 

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There's no need to restrict it. In my first game as the Allies, when I still didn't know much about the game, I made the mistake to sail into the Adria with Royal Navy ships - they never made it back.

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/12/2016 9:45:32 AM   
n0kn0k

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartmann

There's no need to restrict it. In my first game as the Allies, when I still didn't know much about the game, I made the mistake to sail into the Adria with Royal Navy ships - they never made it back.


Problem is the second time you go there you send a destroyer as bait and then wreck them with your whole battleship fleet.

I disagree on the method of a safezone though. Perhaps the AI could be tweaked a bit and the AI should get one or two maritime bombers that are locked in place in Italy.

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/12/2016 9:59:27 AM   
Hartmann

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: n0kn0k


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartmann

There's no need to restrict it. In my first game as the Allies, when I still didn't know much about the game, I made the mistake to sail into the Adria with Royal Navy ships - they never made it back.


Problem is the second time you go there you send a destroyer as bait and then wreck them with your whole battleship fleet.

I disagree on the method of a safezone though. Perhaps the AI could be tweaked a bit and the AI should get one or two maritime bombers that are locked in place in Italy.



Also - if at all - it should not take the Axis ships one turn to sail through.

I'm not sure btw if the baiting method really works in such a confined space as the RM are all close to their various own ports here. The BBs can hit the "bait" and then still run back to port.

A marine bomber for the Italians would be nice, but if it would be locked in a hex in Italy, it could maybe "clog" that hex later in the game.

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/12/2016 10:44:06 AM   
n0kn0k

 

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I did it this morning and the RM fully committed it's whole fleet. 1 battleship got away but I managed to get that one later. I did take alot of damage during the battle, but only lost the destroyer in the end.

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/12/2016 10:55:16 AM   
Hartmann

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: n0kn0k

I did it this morning and the RM fully committed it's whole fleet. 1 battleship got away but I managed to get that one later. I did take alot of damage during the battle, but only lost the destroyer in the end.


I believe you, but you would not do this against a human, would you? I think what really has to be done is to have the naval AI recon an area better before attacking a "single" ship. Or see to it that they attack and then immediately disappear under the FOW again.

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/12/2016 11:57:40 AM   
n0kn0k

 

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Agreed

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/20/2016 9:36:51 PM   
Hartmann

 

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In the meantime, I have to confess that my sympathy for something like this is rising. I don't know what the best solution for the problem would be, but at the moment I can't quite see how in MP or player-vs-player game the Axis player(s) could prevent losing the Italian navy early on.

I found that hiding in the Adriatic Sea - even in ports - will not hinder the Allied player from assembling and just sacrificing the whole French navy, then mopping up the rest of the weakened Regia Marina units with the Royal Navy (the ships stationed in the Med are more than enough). The Italian airforce is not strong enough to stave this off and the German airforce is badly needed elsewhere.



< Message edited by Hartmann -- 12/20/2016 9:37:38 PM >

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/20/2016 10:07:51 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

I think there should be a restriction to Allied warships entering the Adriatic,the Adriatic should be an Axis only sea zone while Italy is still in the war.

I will give a very good reason why it would be considered a suicide mission for any Allied warships who attempted to enter the Adriatic,while Italy was an active member of the Axis.

The Royal Italian Submarine fleet was one of the largest in the world at that time, second only to that of the Soviet Union. It was involved in heavy action during the Second World War, serving mainly in the Mediterranean. At the outset of World War II : the Italian navy had 107 submarines. This was a significant number for any country of the period, and it represented a long term build up despite prevailing economic and political pressures.



warspite1

Well HMS Ajax and friends won a naval victory at the bottom end of the Adriatic - The Straits of Otranto - and the Italian submarine service, though large, was almost as ineffective as the Japanese. That said (so long as the game gives appropriate penalties for going too close to shore in confined spaces, then no need to restrict). If it doesn't then perhaps there should be something. So far when I've tried to do anything with my navy I've had my bottom handed to me - restricted waters or not


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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/21/2016 3:03:53 PM   
Goodmongo

 

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Did you know that in RL the UK sent ships there very often? So why restrict this?

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/21/2016 10:37:56 PM   
Hartmann

 

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That's why I don't really like such a restriction myself ... but atm I'm thinking about future MP games and the gamey sacrifice of the whole French fleet to get the Italian navy down to the bottom of the sea early. This is a move which only makes sense because we know that the French are doomed anyway. Something should be done to make this less effective ... another idea was giving the Italians a naval bomber unit at the start of the campaign.

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/22/2016 1:10:40 AM   
James Taylor

 

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Let there be a port defense factor for surface and sub attacks but not for air.

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RE: Axis only Adriatic ? - 12/22/2016 6:42:45 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartmann

That's why I don't really like such a restriction myself ... but atm I'm thinking about future MP games and the gamey sacrifice of the whole French fleet to get the Italian navy down to the bottom of the sea early. This is a move which only makes sense because we know that the French are doomed anyway. Something should be done to make this less effective ... another idea was giving the Italians a naval bomber unit at the start of the campaign.
warspite1

The French navy is always an issue in strategic games for this reason. Are the national morale penalties big enough do you think to make it a dubious strategy?


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