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Poland then Russia instead of France - 12/12/2016 1:08:14 AM   
Christolos


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Out of curiosity and for the sake of trying something different, I decided to see how the game would play out if as the Axis player, I continued eastward by attacking Russia (after defeating Poland) before attacking France.

I fully understand the importance of taking out France as early as possible for a number of reasons, but like I said, I just wanted to see what would happen if I didn't.

I started the attack on Russia in May 1940 while France started its attack from the Maginot line. I should mention that all of the German units facing the Maginot line were upgraded before France started attacking.

To my surprise, the Allies declared war on Belgium in June of 1940 prompting me to send reinforcements from the East in the form of 2nd Hungarian Army and the 1st Hungarian Corps. With exception of Belgium finally falling in late November 1940, the Allies offensive in the West has largely been contained for now.

The situation in the West as of December 8, 1940 is as follow:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by CC1 -- 12/12/2016 1:41:16 AM >


_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-
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RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 12/12/2016 1:10:16 AM   
Christolos


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The situation in the East (in the North) is as follows:




The Kriegsmarine has sunk the Russian battleship, light cruiser, and submarine.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by CC1 -- 12/12/2016 1:45:49 AM >


_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 2
RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 12/12/2016 1:17:27 AM   
Christolos


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From: Montreal, Canada
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The situation on the Eastern front in the Center and in the South is as follows:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by CC1 -- 12/12/2016 1:46:29 AM >


_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 3
RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 12/12/2016 1:21:16 AM   
Christolos


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And finally, the situation between France and Italy and in Egypt:




Sorry for having everything appear the way it does but I was unable to upload/embed more than one image per message.

If all goes well, I'm hoping to be able to take out Russia before the end of 1941 and then turn my attention West and take out France.

Although my Italians did suffer a few naval losses so far in the Med with three ships sunk;one battleship, one heavy cruiser, and one light cruiser, they gave back better that what they got with three British battleships sent to the bottom, and the British W.D.F. Army and New Zealand Corps surrounded and cut-off from supplies in Egypt.

I don't think it would have gone as well as it has so far against a human player but I am still having fun.

Of course if the Allies (the AI) decides to declare war on the Netherlands to get into Germany and attack the Ruhr, I will be in a lot of trouble...

C

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by CC1 -- 12/12/2016 1:40:09 AM >


_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 4
RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 12/12/2016 3:17:18 AM   
ILCK

 

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I thought about this and wondered if the Germans would have enough men and tek to make the big first year push into Russia.

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RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 12/12/2016 5:18:04 AM   
n0kn0k

 

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Nice!

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RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 12/12/2016 9:23:04 AM   
Hartmann

 

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Ah, I love these "what ifs"! I remember trying this out in other games as well (especially CoS). Thing is, though, that the Axis SHOULD be going to lose this, so CC1's game is an important test for the AI scripts. They don't have to advance at once, which would be premature, but what should happen is that they build up an overwhelming allied force in France and start relieving the pressure on the Soviets well before the situation becomes untenable over there.

(in reply to n0kn0k)
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RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 12/12/2016 3:37:26 PM   
Christolos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ILCK

I thought about this and wondered if the Germans would have enough men and tek to make the big first year push into Russia.


More men and techs would definitely help but the idea is to see if the Russians can be taken off guard in this regard, i.e., before they build up and tech up themselves...

It helps to have Hungary and Romania on the Axis side...but I shall see in the long run how far this strategy actually takes me. The other down side of not striking West in 1940 is the lack of plunder MPPs from the Belgium, the Netherlands, and France.

C

< Message edited by CC1 -- 12/12/2016 3:38:09 PM >


_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to ILCK)
Post #: 8
RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 12/12/2016 4:04:40 PM   
Christolos


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From: Montreal, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartmann

Ah, I love these "what ifs"! I remember trying this out in other games as well (especially CoS). Thing is, though, that the Axis SHOULD be going to lose this, so CC1's game is an important test for the AI scripts. They don't have to advance at once, which would be premature, but what should happen is that they build up an overwhelming allied force in France and start relieving the pressure on the Soviets well before the situation becomes untenable over there.


France has been relentless in attacking (to no avail) from the Maginot line front so this is costing both sides in reinforcement MPPs. The sole Luftwaffe fighter unit in the West has been taken a pounding as well and so another fighter unit has been purchased to bolster the one that is there now.

It is now December 30th, 1940 and the Afrika Korps has arrived in Libya!

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to Hartmann)
Post #: 9
RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 1/17/2017 1:38:12 PM   
Malor

 

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I like the "What-if" attempt. That's what makes the ease of playing this game fun. You are not pinned to a plan that simply judges your accomplishments against historical results.

However, I suspect that due to early DOW on USSR by Germany, that will push the US to enter the war a little earlier than normal DEC '41 (as allied, I would spend diplo points by all three Allies to accomplish US entry as soon as possible). With no need to conduct a D-DAY landing, the US will immediately “transport” units to France with no need to spend additional MPP for AV type units because the need to invade has been eliminated. The push into Germany will begin in spring ‘42. The war will probably end in early '43 when the US/UK/France take Berlin. If you pull back units from the east to defend the west, that will provide the USSR time to build units. You might be able to delay until early '44, but I don't think that is likely to happen because the Soviet horde will push west very quickly.

My reasoning for the above is simple. Since you did not take out France, they still have all units available along with the fact that all of their territory is producing additional MPP for the Allied side instead of doing so for the Axis or being neutral and out of the game. The Axis can't overcome the MPP loss from not taking France. The “captured’ MPP bonuses alone is a huge hit to Axis production.

If I was Allied, I would ignore Africa except for a token defense to slow progress and let the Axis spend points there so I could fight where it matters most, in France and Germany. Anything the Axis captures in Africa is useless if the war ends in ’43.

Malor

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 10
RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 1/18/2017 2:50:30 AM   
Christolos


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You are right. The problem with this approach, in addition to allowing France to remain unconquered, is indeed also the fact that the Axis is short the MPPs that conquering France would yield.

The gamble, which didn't pay off (see: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4201265) was to see if Russia could be knocked out early and quickly before not having France knocked out would be a problem. It didn't work for me but it did work once for sPzAbt653 (Post 20 of http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4201265).

C

_____________________________

“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-

(in reply to Malor)
Post #: 11
RE: Poland then Russia instead of France - 4/7/2017 1:53:24 AM   
PrinceMiskin

 

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I loved the AI dowing on Belgium to exploit the Ardennes pass the other way. Was a nasty thing to do. I thought the AI would be unable to think out of the box. I guess it was already thought and coded by the project team.

(in reply to Christolos)
Post #: 12
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