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RHS Level II Impressions - 11/23/2016 2:24:49 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Well, may 1942 and I have to say I am very pleased with the mod so far. Great job, Sid

First of all, I haven't seen AI crazy banzai moves at all. Said this I must describe the kind of game I like to play: historical. Which means I try to replicate historical operations: ie Solomons and New Guinea in 1942. I do NOT try to break the AI. Not saying this is bad: each player can experiment here and there. I am simply not interested in that sort of game, that's all.

So I basically allow the Japanese AI to grab what was historically grabbed. But no more.

So let's start. In fact, I was caught pants down, did not pay attention to the Sigint thing and the AI terrorist grabbed Canton Island in Central Pacific No big deal.




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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/23/2016 2:31:10 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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In the New Caledonia zone, Luganville was indeed captured by the AI. A unit with a funny name stormed the place. "[Chinese name] Pirates" I recaptured it with the 164th regiment of the Americal Division.




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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/23/2016 2:44:47 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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In New Guinea I saw something new. Really good IMHO. No enemy amphibious landings in Port Moresby. Overland movement from Buna and Salamaua. Strong forces: between 30k and 40k troops.

I have to say the British 18th Division was diverted to Port Moresby instead of Singapore. Why? As I said I let the AI grab the historical targets. PM is not one of them (especially when they attack much before the historical date). In other words, the 18th was supposed to protect the base until the 6th and 7th Australian divisions arrive. The 7th is already in PM by the way. I plan to use this 18th to recapture Milne Bay. Once everything is as per history, they will spend the rest of the war chasing nurses and drinking beers.




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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/23/2016 3:01:12 PM   
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In Burma, the AI is doing a pretty good job IMO. And something went wrong. The first barricade was Moulmein. The Japanese advanced, we resisted quite many turns but they finally prevailed. We were forced to give up (the three brigades of the Indian 17th division) and the clowns (!!) retreated towards the enemy

I don't know if they will make it (dodging the enemy) but I will try to send them to the north via India.

Now there's only the weak 1st Burma Division plus three Chinese divisions (dispatched as per history IIRC) to stop the strong AI forces. + a couple of armored units and the myriad of worthless Burmese batallions.




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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/23/2016 3:05:57 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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The only weird thing the AI did (I saw this in both CHS and Babes) was sending a couple of CAs and DDs (Andy Mac's infamous nuisance raids) to er... Pearl Harbor. I did not try to smash them though. They left unharmed and did not harm anybody either.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/23/2016 3:23:38 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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And now the part that really matters: logistics that is

Those who don't know RHS have to know this mod is logistically oriented. For example Australia will not literally starve if you don't bring anything, ok. Resource Centers + Light Industry will prevent literal starvation. But you still must move stuff. If you want an efficient Australia (historical, as I assume Sid did his homework), oil and more resources are needed. Oil Refineries will produce 90k fuel per month. You might need extra fuel after all.

India produces lots of supplies and resources. But they still need oil AND fuel (deficit) if you want heavy industry to work at 100%.

And so on. Your AKs, TKs are not idle. Another big difference with other mods or Vanilla.

Add to this the resources produced in New Caledonia, the Fidjis, Samoa and countless other places. You can ignore them if you want, but that means less supplies than in the real thing. So I created dozens of Cs convoys to grab almost everything that can be grabbed.

In fact, logistics is the part of the game that I always liked the most. So no complaint.

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 11/24/2016 9:50:00 AM >


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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/24/2016 8:11:09 AM   
sanderz

 

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thanks for the info - have you played as the Japanese at all as i would imagine its a lot more difficult to get resources/supplies etc balanced what with all the changes that sid has made

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/24/2016 9:46:02 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sanderz
have you played as the Japanese at all as i would imagine its a lot more difficult to get resources/supplies etc balanced what with all the changes that sid has made


No. Keep in mind the AI only works for the allied side. Anyway the theory is simple: grab everything you can and ship it to Japan, Manchuria etc. The details have to be the complicated part. I would assume Sid did his homework but I can't tell from my own experience


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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/29/2016 8:07:21 AM   
el cid again

 

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In the New Caledonia zone, Luganville was indeed captured by the AI. A unit with a funny name stormed the place. "[Chinese name] Pirates" I recaptured it with the 164th regiment of the Americal Division.

This is a problem. The unit you refer to is Vietnamese rather than Chinese.
[Well, maybe not. Vietnamese consider themselves to be the "uncorrupted true
Chinese. But they still distinguish themselves from the other, "corrupt"
Chinese.] It should never leave Indochina. Because it is a river - mobile
force - it cannot be restricted. So it is restricted by house
rule (the Primary RHS House Rule is - if historical commanders would not
do it, do not do it yourself.] I should make the AI scenario (there is only
one) restrict that unit anyway, I guess.

It is the Bin Xiyun Pirates Battalion. There is an associated auxiliary patrol
craft (YP) called Bin Xiyun Mekong to model their tiny riverine armed force.
The IJA used this group to control the Mekong Delta and it actually did field
a battalion when required - but it isn't much of a battalion! RHS is full of
lots of minor elements of this kind - and on both sides (probably more on the
Allied side than the Axis). They are intended more to provide the flavor of
historical names (and possibly inspire research) than to alter the balance of
power.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/29/2016 8:23:58 AM   
el cid again

 

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And now the part that really matters: logistics that is

Those who don't know RHS have to know this mod is logistically oriented. For example Australia will not literally starve if you don't bring anything, ok. Resource Centers + Light Industry will prevent literal starvation. But you still must move stuff. If you want an efficient Australia (historical, as I assume Sid did his homework), oil and more resources are needed. Oil Refineries will produce 90k fuel per month. You might need extra fuel after all.

India produces lots of supplies and resources. But they still need oil AND fuel (deficit) if you want heavy industry to work at 100%.

And so on. Your AKs, TKs are not idle. Another big difference with other mods or Vanilla.

Add to this the resources produced in New Caledonia, the Fidjis, Samoa and countless other places. You can ignore them if you want, but that means less supplies than in the real thing. So I created dozens of Cs convoys to grab almost everything that can be grabbed.

In fact, logistics is the part of the game that I always liked the most. So no complaint.

RHS indeed is logistically oriented. Every location is researched and, when someone complains for cause,
it gets corrected to the nearest possible values. The primary problem is the lack of ammunition as a separate
category. After that, the failure to make air units and motorized land units need fuel as fuel. On the resource
side, the biggest thing needed by weight is coal (2/3 of all imports to Japan are coal for example) - but we found
a way to include it. Still - it would be better if LCU and bombers consumed ammo when in combat - and fuel
when they move or fly. But we have compromised to fold them into the existing framework.

None of the supplies in the South Seas are fictional. It is, mainly, a logistical desert. But not
entirely. New Caledonia in particular is a source of vital metals of strategic value - and also of cattle!
And some timber of value sufficient to export. The larger island groups did have a local economy - but
those with only technical populations and no export potential at all are not modeled in the economy. There
are many such cases.

In the mainland of Asia (and a few other places) there are "oasis economies" - nothing can be exported -
so local production only is modeled - and it is usually perfect. The resources convert to supplies if
nothing is damaged - and that limits the size of the force which can base on them. The only other way to
get supplies there would be to fly them in! Good luck with that. But we DO give you even the very minor
air transport elements available. It is surprising how often they get used in the early war period. [US
airlines, mobilized in 1942 after a few months of trying to maintain civil schedules) really were used
to supply Alaska and the Canadian LOC to it - which has a lot of airfields.

Do not neglect riverine and seasonal ocean shipping routes. Siberia lost its major road to Yakutsk (it still
does not exist) and you much of Siberia is hard to supply except seasonally - although air supply is possible.
We gave you all the historical airfields - they permit crossing all the way to North America if you want to
(and indeed that is the route US aircraft aid mainly used).
There is considerable effort to automate supply - using adjacent ports -
to remove player tedium when that is possible. And there is potential for a lot
more IF you build up minor ports (or level 0 potential ports) to Level 3 - when
they are adjacent to other ports.

RHS has a variable supply system. Supplies INCREASE as the war goes on for the Allies -
so they can feed the gigantic armies and air forces that are coming. This is done via
"damaged" industry. You must manage this in a few places, however - mainly on the map edge.
You may not be able to build everything at the same time. In general, if there are a thousand
damaged industry, you are supposed to build that industry every day from game start IF you can
afford the cost (1000 supply points per day per industry). If there are fewer than that,
prioritize by what is most important first.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/29/2016 8:28:26 AM   
el cid again

 

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thanks for the info - have you played as the Japanese at all as i would imagine its a lot more difficult to get resources/supplies etc balanced what with all the changes that sid has made

This has become surprisingly more easy than it used to be,
Mainly because of attention to facilitating automatic supply.
It is by no means universal, but much of it happens. There are
ways to move resources/supplies etc between islands and land bodies
when and where these existed for example. Pay attention to the
F symbol (for Ferries) and read the RHS Documentation about them
(the color tells you their nature; so do on map notes if you use
the new RHS map panels).

The really big deal is that you must PLAN a major offensive. It is
easy to send more troops and planes than you can 'feed' - and I have
seen this result in defeat of nominally superior forces. There is
also the classic speed-time-distance factor - trying to support
a major army in Ceylon or Australia is (barely) possible - but
not if you don't plan well and NOT try major operations somewhere else
at the same time. You are forced to make rather realistic trade
off decisions.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 11/29/2016 8:33:55 AM   
el cid again

 

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ORIGINAL: sanderz
have you played as the Japanese at all as i would imagine its a lot more difficult to get resources/supplies etc balanced what with all the changes that sid has made



No. Keep in mind the AI only works for the allied side. Anyway the theory is simple: grab everything you can and ship it to Japan, Manchuria etc. The details have to be the complicated part. I would assume Sid did his homework but I can't tell from my own experience


Actually, practice is a bit more complicated than that. You have to WORK to get
over-concentrated Japanese locations to produce - rail lines do not have enough
capacity to feed them - you must ship in resources in particular - and oil after
you run out of reserves. You should move the easy to get nearby resources to Japan
of course - but there are not enough. Still - it is more efficient to run a ship
from Korea to Japan than from SE Asia to Japan. And - Japan did not do this much -
you CAN go back to Japan from the South Seas with some resources; doing so is much
better than going back empty. Japan operates on a rather smaller logistic base:
100,000 supplies is good for many Japanese bases. So set up a chain of bases, and
monitor and feed them as required - because you don't know where the enemy may probe.
You need to have a real interior line of supply with supplies all along the line
to be able to react (or act) effectively.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/4/2016 10:29:31 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
The only weird thing the AI did (I saw this in both CHS and Babes) was sending a couple of CAs and DDs (Andy Mac's infamous nuisance raids) to er... Pearl Harbor. I did not try to smash them though. They left unharmed and did not harm anybody either.


Wel, basically after I wrote this some powerful TFs visited Pearl Harbor: BBs + CAs

Nothing happened because I don't want to destroy the AI and thus spoil the fun. At least they didn't bombard the base (destroying tons of planes in the process, smashing installations). It's a good thing I didn't lay minefields in PH.

This kamikaze script is old. I have seen it in every mod. It should be removed IMO. I don't see the point.

Amphibious enemy TFs finally appeared and landed units in Port Moresby (so far, only an overland advance). Australian Beauforts (TB) based in Cooktown apparently sank BB Hiei. The landed troops were obviously annihilated.

[Re mines warfare. Another difference between RHS and the rest of the mods is that you get lots of mines: you can put your DMs, CMs and CMcs to good use]

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 12/4/2016 10:30:42 PM >


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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/4/2016 10:51:02 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Not to mention new planes. For example the LB-30 Liberator [recon version]. There is a detachment of the 9th squadron of the 7th Bombardment Group. Historically sent to India (10th USAAF). Well, they fly from PH to India

Now they are in Alice Springs, Australia... Maximum range? 112 hexes Which means they can make it to Calcutta or Colombo (last leg). And that's exactly what they will be doing when the plane is repaired

In general, Range in RHS is longer. 17/21 the Catalinas, 17/20 the Fortresses etc. But the maximum range has to be this Liberator.




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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/4/2016 11:02:57 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Another long range recon monster: the RA-29 Hudson. Keep in mind both this plane and the Liberator are available since almost the beginning: the Hudson in december 1941; the LB-30 in february 1942.




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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/4/2016 11:25:05 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again
The unit you refer to is Vietnamese rather than Chinese [...] It is the Bin Xiyun Pirates Battalion


These are indeed the poor souls that tried to do some nasty "piracy" As Guthrie would put it: we'll throw the clods of dirt in their face, and walk away from that lonesome grave. Which was done.


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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/5/2016 4:40:54 AM   
el cid again

 

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TulliusDetrius wrote:

Nothing happened because I don't want to destroy the AI and thus spoil the fun. At least they didn't bombard the base (destroying tons of planes in the process, smashing installations). It's a good thing I didn't lay minefields in PH.

This kamikaze script is old. I have seen it in every mod. It should be removed IMO. I don't see the point.

Reply

1) There is some confusion here I think. Any surface TF entering Pearl (or Manila, or Singapore,
etc) is likely to be wiped out by CD guns and mines. Minefields are laid by code in major ports
at game start.

2) I don't know how to modify or disable a script. When/If I stop making scenarios - it is in sight -
I will look at that. There is one more scenario to work up - a 1945 Downfall one - and I need to finish
map and map support files for Level II. Then we will decide if we are going to do Level III (Mifune
wants Madagascar and we do have art for it from WITP days which Mifune has rescaled for AE)??? If not,
I will do scripts and maybe write a switcher for map art and map support files.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/5/2016 4:43:33 AM   
el cid again

 

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TD Wrote:

[Re mines warfare. Another difference between RHS and the rest of the mods is that you get lots of mines: you can put your DMs, CMs and CMcs to good use]


Comment: RHS studied mines and how AE works. You sort of get the right number of mines. Code
does not grasp that large numbers are possible - e.g. for WWI era mines. So we
allocate them 'to the theater' so many a month - smaller numbers it can grasp. Not
all mines replenish however. But most do. It was deliberate and took a long time
to work out. Mines also are affected by port and national considerations - you
cannot always load every type of minelayer everywhere it might be.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/5/2016 4:52:12 AM   
el cid again

 

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TS Wrote:

Not to mention new planes. For example the LB-30 Liberator [recon version]. There is a detachment of the 9th squadron of the 7th Bombardment Group. Historically sent to India (10th USAAF). Well, they fly from PH to India

Now they are in Alice Springs, Australia... Maximum range? 112 hexes Which means they can make it to Calcutta or Colombo (last leg). And that's exactly what they will be doing when the plane is repaired

In general, Range in RHS is longer. 17/21 the Catalinas, 17/20 the Fortresses etc. But the maximum range has to be this Liberator.

Comment:

Actually the longest range belongs to some recon variants of the B-29 (probably).

The longest range 'transport' is very strange - it is a CIVIL AIRLINE version of the
PBY Catalina - in proper colors and numbers. It STILL holds the record for the longest
commercial aviation flights measured in terms of hours. Called 'the flight of the two
sunrises" it was flown mainly at night to evade enemy fighters near Sumatra - between
Perth and Ceylon. But unfortunately map distortion does not permit that particular
route. They turn out to be useful for other reasons.

Very long range missions rarely fly. But they DO fly. I guess weather must be good
at both ends and possibly along the route. We have a number of variants - e.g. B-24s
with drop tanks under the wings for example. The LB-30s replaced bomb bays with internal
fuel tanks - which we model by the device called an "internal drop tank" - and many
US bombers can fly with them. [The concept, however, was invented, pre-war, by Japan
for the Ki-21 with a tiny removable tank replacing just 4 bombs in the forward bomb
bay. We have that too.] Some of the neatest long range planes are Mosquito variants with
huge drop tanks and cameras instead of armament. If planes can fly a variety of missions,
we may model them with more than one type in cases where mission codes are insufficient
to show them all. And we asked for the ASW mission - because RHS has ASW weapons of several
types. That means ordinary bombers can fly specialized ASW missions.

The longest range planes are usually recon types. At start there are some neat
B-17 variants. Throughout the war you keep getting more types.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/5/2016 7:05:20 AM   
sanderz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: sanderz
have you played as the Japanese at all as i would imagine its a lot more difficult to get resources/supplies etc balanced what with all the changes that sid has made



No. Keep in mind the AI only works for the allied side. Anyway the theory is simple: grab everything you can and ship it to Japan, Manchuria etc. The details have to be the complicated part. I would assume Sid did his homework but I can't tell from my own experience


Actually, practice is a bit more complicated than that. You have to WORK to get
over-concentrated Japanese locations to produce - rail lines do not have enough
capacity to feed them - you must ship in resources in particular - and oil after
you run out of reserves. You should move the easy to get nearby resources to Japan
of course - but there are not enough. Still - it is more efficient to run a ship
from Korea to Japan than from SE Asia to Japan. And - Japan did not do this much -
you CAN go back to Japan from the South Seas with some resources; doing so is much
better than going back empty. Japan operates on a rather smaller logistic base:
100,000 supplies is good for many Japanese bases. So set up a chain of bases, and
monitor and feed them as required - because you don't know where the enemy may probe.
You need to have a real interior line of supply with supplies all along the line
to be able to react (or act) effectively.


hi sid - i think you misunderstood my question, or i wasn't clear enough - i was asking about balance in production of resources, particularly by the mid to late game i.e. overall are too many or too few resources/supplies produced due to the changes you have made to industry production

i appreciate its very difficult to test because of the amount of work needed to even get a game to 1943 - how far have you got in your test games and what did the overall resource/supply situation look like compared to stock

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/5/2016 2:26:19 PM   
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I like the added details of RHS and Sid has done some tweaking to assist a Japanese AI..I like the fact that no matter where the Allies build a base on the ocean, the Japanese may just show up to either bombard or sink unloading transports!
I play scen 122.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/5/2016 6:34:11 PM   
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My personal opinion is that there is too much supply everywhere. The stock game does not represent civilian consumption, thus, in RHS, the added industry just makes the military operations too easy like in Burma for example.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/5/2016 11:36:44 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Yaab, Burma is not producing lots of supplies. The AI almost kicked me out of Burma and I certainly was not swimming in lots of Burmese produced supplies. Au contraire: CS Convoys from Chittagong never stopped sending them. Overall I had 20k at most. And there's the overland movement: easy to apply bottlenecks with the supply max draw x thing. For example the Karlemyo base near the border (Imphal area): Supply max draw = 50

And this in many bases in Burma and along the border. You could have millions of supplies in India, they will not get through

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/5/2016 11:40:34 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Anyway I guess the main problem during the conflict was not producing supplies but the logistical nightmare when they were trying to send these suplies to the frontline.

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/6/2016 5:07:38 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

My personal opinion is that there is too much supply everywhere. The stock game does not represent civilian consumption, thus, in RHS, the added industry just makes the military operations too easy like in Burma for example.


Civilian consumption is built into the engine and it's invisible. Supply in game is military supply only.

Bill

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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/6/2016 6:17:12 AM   
sanderz

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Yaab, Burma is not producing lots of supplies. The AI almost kicked me out of Burma and I certainly was not swimming in lots of Burmese produced supplies. Au contraire: CS Convoys from Chittagong never stopped sending them. Overall I had 20k at most. And there's the overland movement: easy to apply bottlenecks with the supply max draw x thing. For example the Karlemyo base near the border (Imphal area): Supply max draw = 50

And this in many bases in Burma and along the border. You could have millions of supplies in India, they will not get through


i think you are referring to the allies, its the Japanese side thats way more difficult to get balance - has anyone run the game, as Jap, through to 1943?

also, aren't you referring to supply "flow" rather than supply produced? - on this subject has this mod changed (reduced) the supply flow as compared to stock?





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RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/6/2016 12:15:24 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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sanderz, Sid more or less answered above. The big picture but it gets to the point

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again
[...] trying to support a major army in Ceylon or Australia is (barely) possible - but not if you don't plan well and NOT try major operations somewhere else at the same time. You are forced to make rather realistic trade off decisions.


As for the supply flow, I can't remember the numbers in stock, but Burma - and Indian bases along the border - is certainly a bottleneck.

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 27
RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/6/2016 2:57:48 PM   
sanderz

 

Posts: 867
Joined: 1/8/2009
From: Devon, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

sanderz, Sid more or less answered above. The big picture but it gets to the point

he didn't answer the question at all - i was asking about balance and sid commented on process/gameplay


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
As for the supply flow, I can't remember the numbers in stock, but Burma - and Indian bases along the border - is certainly a bottleneck.

ok no problem - do you know if the supply "flow" rules were changed at all?

thanks


(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 28
RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/6/2016 4:00:54 PM   
Alfred

 

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The supply flow rules are not different for RHS.  For that to occur the game code would need to be changed and no modder (other than the DaBabes people who developed AE) has access to code.

Alfred

(in reply to sanderz)
Post #: 29
RE: RHS Level II Impressions - 12/6/2016 5:03:23 PM   
sanderz

 

Posts: 867
Joined: 1/8/2009
From: Devon, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The supply flow rules are not different for RHS.  For that to occur the game code would need to be changed and no modder (other than the DaBabes people who developed AE) has access to code.

Alfred


thanks for the clarification alfred

cheers

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 30
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