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TopEverest vs Admiral Kamikaze - the rematch

 
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TopEverest vs Admiral Kamikaze - the rematch - 11/9/2016 11:46:56 PM   
topeverest


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SCENARIO 1 Random weather, FOW and Movement FOW.

TopEverest - Soviet
Admiral Kamikaze - German

The ole AK has been studying some best demonstrated early advance tactics and is once again
going to try to put down the RED MENACE (that's ME!)

We both have day jobs, so the game progress wont be Blitz speed

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RE: TopEverest vs Admiral Kamikaze - the rematch - 11/9/2016 11:48:39 PM   
topeverest


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While an experienced gamer with hundreds of titles under belt, I have only played this game a few times, and never to the end. I am open to any and all devious tactics that might help the RED MENACE crush the infidels.

Turn one has arrived, and here we go.

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Turn 1 German - NOrth - 11/9/2016 11:52:24 PM   
topeverest


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Looks bad. he got pretty deep penetration




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RE: Turn 1 German - NOrth - 11/9/2016 11:56:11 PM   
chaos45

 

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You actually came out very well. He didnt get the ports by Riga so you can naval evac some of those units and you still hold riga. Plus you might be able to re-open supplies to some of the pockets and flip hexes back to soviet control to slow his infantry.

This is a tough opening for a german player.....its going to slow him down in the early critical turns.

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RE: Turn 1 German - CENTER - 11/9/2016 11:57:33 PM   
topeverest


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Seems about standard here




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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/10/2016 12:01:19 AM   
topeverest


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NOt a lot to look at here.




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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/10/2016 12:02:47 AM   
topeverest


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Chaos - thanks for the early reply. So you suggest burning units necessary to punch holes to get some supply to retreating units?

Any other thoughts?

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Suggested AAR's to read / follow - 11/10/2016 12:12:41 AM   
topeverest


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I was thinking I should read a couple good AAR's as instructionals. I was looking to attach to a new game but don't see any

Any ideas?

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RE: Suggested AAR's to read / follow - 11/10/2016 5:24:08 AM   
Hagar

 

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Oh, several... Pelton's are definitely a good read, as those of Sillyflower, to name but a few... Both are experienced players, and I've learned a lot from those. I tend to read them all though, just to see whether there are tips&tricks I can use. And there is the collection of best posts, which has some helpful pointers as well.

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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/10/2016 5:40:41 AM   
Hagar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Chaos - thanks for the early reply. So you suggest burning units necessary to punch holes to get some supply to retreating units?

Any other thoughts?

If you do, they're toast, and the resupplied units are not be able to move for yet another turn, so it would just prolong the inevitable, methinks. Overall, you did 'just as bad as you can expect'. I'd get as many of the cut-off units in Kurland out via naval evac as you can, and for the rest it's a rout to more defensive positions: either the Velikaya line or Luga line in the North, the Dnepr line in the center, and Dnjestr line (or other river lines up to the Dnjepr and/or old Stalin fortifications) you feel confident of using to slow down the follow-on attacks. At this stage unfortified soviet units have little hope of stopping determined attacks, though they might slow them a little, especially when using defense in depth. Defensive terrain (rivers, swamps) are usually the key terrains to form defensive lines. Only fortified positions behind rivers have a real hope of holding out for prolonged series of time at this stage. As German supply lines grow longer and the Panzers are less of a threat things will improve, but right now your main objectives are to slow them down and prevent encirclement.

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RE: Turn 1 German - CENTER - 11/10/2016 6:01:28 AM   
GabrielBora

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Seems about standard here



He is too focused on traping soviet units instead of heading east .

you can stop the 3rd panzer army in front of polotsk -orsha axis and rebuild western northwestern fronts, because for the next 2 turns his armor in the north and center ,would be fighting without infantry support.

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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/10/2016 6:08:26 AM   
GabrielBora

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hagar


quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Chaos - thanks for the early reply. So you suggest burning units necessary to punch holes to get some supply to retreating units?

Any other thoughts?

If you do, they're toast, and the resupplied units are not be able to move for yet another turn, so it would just prolong the inevitable, methinks. Overall, you did 'just as bad as you can expect'. I'd get as many of the cut-off units in Kurland out via naval evac as you can, and for the rest it's a rout to more defensive positions: either the Velikaya line or Luga line in the North, the Dnepr line in the center, and Dnjestr line (or other river lines up to the Dnjepr and/or old Stalin fortifications) you feel confident of using to slow down the follow-on attacks. At this stage unfortified soviet units have little hope of stopping determined attacks, though they might slow them a little, especially when using defense in depth. Defensive terrain (rivers, swamps) are usually the key terrains to form defensive lines. Only fortified positions behind rivers have a real hope of holding out for prolonged series of time at this stage. As German supply lines grow longer and the Panzers are less of a threat things will improve, but right now your main objectives are to slow them down and prevent encirclement.



AGN is very short of infantry, if he can force the diversion of one infantry corps north instead of east , it is already a succes .

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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/10/2016 8:39:23 AM   
Hagar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GabrielBora


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hagar


quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Chaos - thanks for the early reply. So you suggest burning units necessary to punch holes to get some supply to retreating units?

Any other thoughts?

If you do, they're toast, and the resupplied units are not be able to move for yet another turn, so it would just prolong the inevitable, methinks. Overall, you did 'just as bad as you can expect'. I'd get as many of the cut-off units in Kurland out via naval evac as you can, and for the rest it's a rout to more defensive positions: either the Velikaya line or Luga line in the North, the Dnepr line in the center, and Dnjestr line (or other river lines up to the Dnjepr and/or old Stalin fortifications) you feel confident of using to slow down the follow-on attacks. At this stage unfortified soviet units have little hope of stopping determined attacks, though they might slow them a little, especially when using defense in depth. Defensive terrain (rivers, swamps) are usually the key terrains to form defensive lines. Only fortified positions behind rivers have a real hope of holding out for prolonged series of time at this stage. As German supply lines grow longer and the Panzers are less of a threat things will improve, but right now your main objectives are to slow them down and prevent encirclement.



AGN is very short of infantry, if he can force the diversion of one infantry corps north instead of east , it is already a succes .

Why would it divert infantry north from AGC to AGN? Despite the lack of infantry in AGN there's no chance to hold against the forces that are already there. Granted, Soviet units lost in 1941 will rebuild, but only after 11 turns (divisions). So get out what you can, and be aggressive with what's left to slow down the advance (i.e. try to reclaim captured territory, especially in key positions like the Köningsberg-Riga rail connection - if you can slow down the rail construction progress that's a big bonus, even if only a little). That will be a challenge as your forces in the Šiauliai area are already swept under the carpet though... But his failure to capture Ventspils gives you an opening to extract some of your forces there. I'd suggest holding on to Riga as being a port it's in supply and will require a heavy attack to dislodge (and won't force a surrender, but rather a rout). Besides, Riga is the obvious target for his rail advance up north. The longer you can hold on to it, the better. It probably won't last long, but will require some effort to clear (i.e. by mobile units, or it will give you some form of delay if he tries to do it with regular infantry).
At this stage the Germans aren't lacking in infantry IMHO, the infantry there is has trouble catching up with the Panzers. A couple of turns later the infantry comes back into play of course. Any trailing infantry can by-and-large catch up once the captured territory is firmly in German control (and thus advance more quickly).

Oh, and lest I forget, the Polotsk-Orsha line is the obvious line between the Velikaya and Dnjepr lines, and should indeed be the first target for a new defense line for the Northwestern Army. It is unlikely to hold for more than a few turns, but it will slow the Germans down. Should it fall the next line of defense is around Velikye Luki. I know some argue to forget about the Velikaya line and aim straight for the Luga line, but I usually try to make a stand at the Velikaya line, however futile, as it will slow down the Panzers.

< Message edited by Hagar -- 11/10/2016 9:01:04 AM >


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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/10/2016 9:10:43 AM   
GabrielBora

 

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North as into the Courland peninsula not, AGC to AGN .

And no ,GHC it cannot aford trailing infantry in AGN area, the initial force alocation is indadequate for the the task .

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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/10/2016 9:47:47 AM   
swkuh

 

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KUDOS topeverest for presentation; will we see "ole AK's" thoughts?

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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/10/2016 12:30:48 PM   
chaos45

 

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I'll refrain from selling all the secrets since your both newish to WITE---key thing for Soviets in 1941 you are working to reduce German movement points more than actually stop them until closer to winter. So anything you can do to slow the German army's arrival at your MLR and limit their supply lines via zones of control or flipping ground the better.

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Sorry for the delay - 11/20/2016 11:32:06 AM   
topeverest


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I am running a few other games and my Civil War II game blew up after I downloaded the patch. It appears dead to no avail. in any event, it has been very busy at work too but that hasn't been the issue in the gap is starting. really it has been using my available time to try to fix CW - which failed.

Future updates should yield a turn on average about every 2-3 days. Once again sorry for the delay

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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/20/2016 11:36:43 AM   
topeverest


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Chaos,

Yes - I am pretty inexperienced in the game. A couple times through to 43 stalemate.

I appreciate the thoughts, interest, and restraint. It is likely I will stray from a wise path, perhaps far more than I thin I will.
And I agree that the MP drain from recon attacks on the mobile German units
has to be a big part of 41.

My only substantive goal is to avoid the first auto defeat, and prepare for the 41-2 winter counterattack

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RE: Turn 1 German - SOUTH - 11/20/2016 11:42:34 AM   
topeverest


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RRBILL Hagar and Galbrielbora thanks for the interest. I will see what I can do on this first turn that I will post today.

My limited experience suggests that overcommitting to try to save the border units in the center always ends in disaster. Certainly, they should be used to burn enemy MP's and cut supply lines, and some will get out. But My experience is that the enemy can get anything they decide to take this early.

The AK and I go way back. He tends not to post much, but I can tell you that he subscribes to the Patton / Rommel school of armored warfare. He tends to run a relentless offensive machine. Where ever there is an opportunity to attack. expect it.

< Message edited by topeverest -- 11/20/2016 11:47:24 AM >


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German Intentions - 11/20/2016 11:46:00 AM   
topeverest


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My limited experience is what it is, but I have never saved Leningrad. My tactical goals will be to save as many production elements as possible until the winter grinds the enemy to a halt.

It is not yet clear to me if he intends on a Moscow concentration path, or Rostov and caucuses. time will tell.

But for now - it is time for some glory. onto the turn

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Turn 1 Results - FINALLY - 11/23/2016 11:48:28 AM   
topeverest


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Turn 1 File is available by PM.

I spent a long time studying to see if I could reasonably save isolated pockets, but the answer turned out to be no.

Russian tactics therefore were to attack any German unit that could be reached and to develop defense in depth elsewhere. I moved all at risk army HQ and air bases, dumping planes to reserve where necessary due to being isolated.

I concentrated on trying to bust the morale of units attacked - By my count a bakers dozen armor regiments and divisions took serious morale hits, and another number of infantry units did too. Time will tell if it makes a difference, but I am hopping that the enemy is going to have to change tactics, and not leave armor exposed at the MLR.




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RE: Turn 1 Results - part 2 losses logistics and produc... - 11/23/2016 12:08:48 PM   
topeverest


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Here are the production and losses - still not much to look at -

BUT I am pondering the right factory evacuation method. I was thinking about moving 1 point of all the rebuildable factories on turn 2 and then focus thereafter on the types that have to be moved in total.






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< Message edited by topeverest -- 11/23/2016 12:10:00 PM >


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RE: Turn 1 Air Doctrine - 11/23/2016 12:10:33 PM   
topeverest


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SO I haven't set it yet. Thoughts on how to set?




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RE: Turn 1 Air Doctrine - 11/23/2016 12:38:36 PM   
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It's virtually suicide to attack German units in the early turns. On turn 1 in particular every MP is precious.

Factories can't be moved at all until turn 3. Try to move arms and heavy factories in one lift where possible. Leave vehicle factories until the city is under threat ( not too much) and then move as many units as you feel you can afford according to how hard pressed you are. Moving at least half the factory will see it back to full production faster than only moving one unit.


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RE: Suggested AAR's to read / follow - 11/23/2016 2:40:41 PM   
TheOne

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hagar

Oh, several... Pelton's are definitely a good read, as those of Sillyflower, to name but a few... Both are experienced players, and I've learned a lot from those. I tend to read them all though, just to see whether there are tips&tricks I can use. And there is the collection of best posts, which has some helpful pointers as well.


MT has some good stuff also.

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RE: Suggested AAR's to read / follow - 11/25/2016 12:55:17 PM   
topeverest


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Thanks all

read or perused several Pelton german games and at least one current playing against pelton. Patton and Rommel would be proud of Pelton!

Now If I can only learn something from it. I sure don't seem up to that greatness at this early hour!






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< Message edited by topeverest -- 11/25/2016 12:58:50 PM >


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Turn 2 Summary - 11/25/2016 1:09:20 PM   
topeverest


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File is available by PM.

About the only major accomplishment was not having a hole the size of Montana blown through the imaginary MLR. Those dame commie pinko bastard fascists conquered my grandmothers home, so I am not taking this sitting down!

Stalin ordered his battered and beaten armies to salvage what they could and form a MLR. Pockets of hopelessly surrounded units were ordered to hold out as long as possible. The 'mlr' if that is what it could be called was as successful as any turn 2 MLR can be. It will be broken next turn in multiple places of course, but hopefully, Admiral Kamikaze wont be able to specifically exploit the most weak potions of the line.

SO far, the AK's modus operandi seems broad based. There isn't an over concentration of armor yet. I expect Leningrad to be the first target, and I am not expecting to hold her. Kiev falls or goes under siege this turn.

OH - and somehow I managed to activate the Romanians and Hungarians on turn 1. What was that Forrest Gump said. We;, I must have done it!

My air force deployed this turn, and I began a program to upgrade bi planes to Migs and LAG's. I set up several VVS night missions to get the partisans going, but I still have to level out the deployment of the VVS's across Russia. They are localized in the north.

I was unable to move any factory, as I burned my entire rail (and sea) capacity just in aggregating the beginning of a MLR.

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RE: Turn 2 Summary - 11/25/2016 1:11:29 PM   
topeverest


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OH - and I am building a spreadsheet to track production needs and factories - does anyone already have one I can use?

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RE: Turn 2 North - 11/25/2016 1:14:56 PM   
topeverest


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His penetration wasn't nearly what I thought it would be as far as progress to Tallin. I still hold tallin AND RIGA. Very perplexing. Anyway that is about as far as I can say anything went well.

I was unable to find an attack worth making. Honestly I had limited options and the air force was not generally available due to moving airbases.

4 more units were rescued by sea around RIGA. I consider that a minor boom, plus the island locked units were successfully moved to the mainland.




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RE: Turn 2 Center - 11/25/2016 1:23:22 PM   
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Generally speaking in the center the enemy did not proceed past Minsk,, but they appear or could be preparing for an early move on Smolensk.

I have moved up and pooled the Moscow and local areas forces around Smolensk, so that at least there will be a battle for the city. I cannot afford another turn like this one where I gave up so much ground for almost no casualities.

As you can see I am river hopping in my defense. I need to make it as hard as I can.




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