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RE: Four Seasons with Models

 
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RE: Four Seasons with Models - 6/30/2017 1:39:45 PM   
ArmouredLion


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I saw the jeep in aircraft, but didn't want to hassle you with small fry stuff. I'm putting together a 4 way game with your mod and that will offer more feedback. I'm also playing an Ai game right now. Thanks for the hard work... I did notice that by turn 4 no AI declared war and there are 5 of them... not sure if that's normal or not.

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Post #: 31
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 6/30/2017 2:51:20 PM   
Ormand


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That's not the way it is intended to be. I peaked in a game after four turns and discovered that the AI was having a severe supply problem at four turns. It had also done something strange by utilizing a faraway HQ as the main HQ, but did not have any trains, etc, in it, just 2(!) trucks. So, I need to figure out what I might have modified to make the AI so stoopid.

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Post #: 32
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/2/2017 4:56:26 AM   
Ormand


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I believe the passive AI problem is solved. I uploaded a new version of the at2 files, this is version v1.1.3.

I also included an attempt to modify the AI-regime behavior depending on how things are going. In particular, if losses are too high, to become conservative and to defend in depth.

Please give feedback. Especially how artillery is working/not-working.

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Post #: 33
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/2/2017 6:56:39 AM   
ernieschwitz

 

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If you want or need some inspiration as to how to modify the AI and its ability to declare war, then take a look at the 2nd Civil War scenario. I did some good work in it, with the AI. At least I think it was good. Modifying the AI is not something a lot of people have looked into.

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Post #: 34
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/2/2017 5:17:19 PM   
Ormand


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I'll take a look!

I tried to do two things here.

First, I increased the likelihood of declaring war with each turn via rulevar 903.

Second. Using ExecAIConservative, I tried to make all AI regimes aggressive to start with. Then, each turn, I check the losses and the loss ratios to see if things are going badly or not. If losses are close to 1:1, then I keep it as is. If starts to go against the AI, I dial down the aggressiveness to normal. If it starts going badly for the AI, I make it very conservative and increase the defensive in depth rulevar parameters. If it ever gets better for the AI, then they shift back to normal. These checks are done at the start of each turn, and for the rulevars, these are set during each regime's turn. I don't know how well this will work, but it is the way to interact with the engine.

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Post #: 35
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/3/2017 2:32:39 AM   
Ormand


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Oops. Sorry, I left a debug feature on, which was showing regime variables 50 and 51 that I used to determine if the regimes were at war and if a message should be sent. I uploaded again with these turned off.

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Post #: 36
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/4/2017 5:44:08 AM   
Ormand


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Fixed some relatively minor terrain issues. Some terrains weren't correctly overlapping plains/spring/storm. Kept the same version number.

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Post #: 37
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/5/2017 11:56:41 AM   
ArmouredLion


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Spent the last couple of days moving to a new house and didn't have internet to reply. I'm catching up with things, so I'll get back to playing your mod and reporting what I find. I have found two others to join in a game of your mod...interested in being #4? If not I'll break it up into two games.

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Post #: 38
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/5/2017 9:23:37 PM   
Bombur

 

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I think the trouble of AI with supplies also happens in vanilla game. In my mod it seems to be alleviated by allowing the factories to produce supplies.

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Post #: 39
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 5:13:06 AM   
Ormand


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArmouredLion

Spent the last couple of days moving to a new house and didn't have internet to reply. I'm catching up with things, so I'll get back to playing your mod and reporting what I find. I have found two others to join in a game of your mod...interested in being #4? If not I'll break it up into two games.


Interesting idea. I haven't gone mano a mano. To tell the truth I spent so much time modding and debugging I probably stink at it. What is your schedule like in playing? PM me, and let me think about it.

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Post #: 40
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 5:17:52 AM   
Ormand


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

I think the trouble of AI with supplies also happens in vanilla game. In my mod it seems to be alleviated by allowing the factories to produce supplies.


What I observed was using the edit feature of a game, so I peaked in after a few turns (I was trying to see why the bugger wouldn't declare war). What I noticed was that nearly all of the AI's units had the little red-ball lit up, and there indications in the supply requested and supply in boxes that would indicate that they weren't getting supply as they should. The main HQ at this point had > 3500 supplies on hand, so I don't know what was going on since I rather thought that supply was automatic. It might also be something that the edit game in progress might not have done correctly. This might be a red herring. I sent Vic and e-mail with this description, so it is something he may look at in the future.

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Post #: 41
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 5:23:01 AM   
Ormand


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I am still fiddling with the AI, and trying to get it to be aggressive. I know that it can, and sometimes will, declare war. But, with my start up, I think the AI gets too skittish since one can get the beginnings of a line in place. Thus, the "this ain't worth it" algorithm comes into play. I even gave the AI the material for six more divisions, and it is still passive. For the most part the AI wants to catch a human player with their pants down. I thought that six more divisions might make it feel a bit more superior, but not enough.

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Post #: 42
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 5:26:26 AM   
Ormand


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Well, I'll be darned restarting this and I did manage to get a declaration of war. Of course, the AI did want to hit me before I got a defensive line in place.

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Post #: 43
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 6:31:51 AM   
Ormand


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I just uploaded v1.1.4. I found a potential issue with the TOE system, or at least I was seeing one, and I think I have fixed it. I also included a TOE template in /savedgames TOE-v1.1.4.atgtoe.

As a design change, I also increased the tech level for bazookas so that in random games, no regime starts with the bazooka technology. Historically, bazooka-like anti-tank weapons didn't enter service until 1942-3.

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Post #: 44
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 7:24:12 AM   
roy64


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Have you any idea when the private beta will end?

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Post #: 45
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 1:57:33 PM   
ArmouredLion


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Roy, you mean Four Seasons or Bombers, or ATG?

< Message edited by ArmouredLion -- 7/6/2017 2:00:32 PM >

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Post #: 46
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 2:01:43 PM   
roy64


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ATG

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Post #: 47
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 2:10:12 PM   
ArmouredLion


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No word I have heard. I have a Steam edition, so I'm out of the loop on that one, sadly...

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Post #: 48
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 2:15:11 PM   
roy64


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As far as I know you need the latest private beta patch to play all the recent mods which you can't get on Steam.

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Post #: 49
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 3:19:16 PM   
ArmouredLion


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Hmmmm... I did not know that. So I won't be able to play Bomburs new game with Steam? That's a BIG bummer... thanks for the info.

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Post #: 50
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 3:51:07 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

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Actually, if you are refering to the GD 1938 v3 mod, it will not use the new functions, in 226b. But it may in the long run. So while the game (ATG) says there may be problems, and asks you if you want to continue, that should mean nothing, so far at least.

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Post #: 51
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 3:56:47 PM   
ArmouredLion


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Amen... I'm so looking forward to 1938 Mark III. My walls are full of claw marks, and my wife is giving me grief... so hurry up for my walls and wife's sake.

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Post #: 52
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/6/2017 4:34:14 PM   
Ormand


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Tonight, I'll see if I can make a 225 version.

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Post #: 53
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/7/2017 5:29:59 AM   
Ormand


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I think Four Seasons v1.1.4 will work perfectly fine with ATG v225. It will give the annoying message of course. I have also loaded the at2 files into v225b and saved them and uploaded them to the site as FourSeasons-at2-v1.1.4-225b.atzip found at http://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=268.

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Post #: 54
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/7/2017 5:32:51 AM   
Ormand


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I should also note that buried in the faces directory, there are 7 historical US generals and 3 historical British generals. A project I started but has stalled a bit while I work on other things. The goal is to do a few here and there and gradually expand the set in the same style.

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Post #: 55
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/7/2017 10:54:44 AM   
Bombur

 

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Yes, GD1938v3 is not a Bomburr scenario. I do, maybe, 10% of work.
My scenario is Bombur mod 1930.

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Post #: 56
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/8/2017 2:07:07 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

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I downloaded the version for 225 and it works with 226b.

Some things I noticed. Misspellings (and I flunked spelling in Junior High), some text is not visible (too long), HW do get researched but do not replace earlier versions -- the SFT points to MG as the followup supply rebuild for HW1 not HW2, You have to build HW2 from scratch instead of improving HW1,some research still present and meaningless (research for MG and Mortars which you cannot build). None of these are deal killers but the HW upgrade one comes close.

The AI always declares war on the 3rd turn? So far in 4 test games.

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Post #: 57
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/8/2017 3:28:25 PM   
ArmouredLion


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Meant 1938... me and names. I'm building a map to test out Four Seasons with three players, but I have 225--I'm running Steam. There won't be any AI opponents... I'm not sure if the third player has Steam or not. If you can't build MG or Motars and others can that would make the game very awkward...but I guess you could get around it with a rebuild of HW. Thank Larry for your input.

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Post #: 58
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/8/2017 6:53:07 PM   
Ormand


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Thanks much for the feedback. It is hard keeping track of everything. I fixed these issues in both versions. The v225 version is one deprecated from v226. Unfortunately, machineguns and mortars will still show up as techs in the unavailable slot. They should be impossible to research. They are still there because I am considering in the future to modify this to a smaller scale, more like 5 mi/hex, which would be regimental sized units. So, these are still there as a place holder because it is simpler on me for now. The fixes include:
1. making sure that machineguns and mortars cannot be researched
2. proper upgrades for Heavy Weapons and cost
3. Proper pictures for Heavy weapons
4. Some misspellings corrected.

I can't spell well either, and dyslexia while typing only makes it worse. And, in the end, after all the other work, the descriptions are more of an afterthought. I am not sure how accurate each upgrade description is as well. Some, like heavy tanks might have been "tuned" later. I am inclined to change these and just say something like "Allows Rifle IV".

As for declaration of war. The default is a 30% probability that the AI will declare war in any round. I set it up so that on the next two turns this probability increases by 20%, i.e., round 1 = 30%, round 2 = 50%, round >= 3 = 70%. The problem is that if the AI doesn't declare war by round 3-4, it almost always never will. This because, the human player will have moved troops into position, to have a good defensive position, and the AI will conclude that it is not in its advantage to do so. So, then there is a "phony war". This is not that easy to fix. I am open to suggestions.

(in reply to ArmouredLion)
Post #: 59
RE: Four Seasons with Models - 7/9/2017 4:26:23 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

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I noticed that SMG II need to be built from scratch instead of upgrading the SMG I. I know that SMG is a model but should it not be up-gradable also.

I noticed that as map size increases Research costs go up...is this necessary? Correct? Part of ATG? Can it be reset by rules?

One suggestion: Not sure who this should go to. Allow models to be deleted. It is distracting to have old models still shown when I cannot build them. Or when I accidentally create two models of the same thing (UGH wrong model button got pressed).

AI is hard...that's why I prefer HUMAN only games. Generally after 10 turns the AI is out of supply because it overbuilt and will lose. It simply cannot continue it's offensive no matter how aggressive it is set.

Lastly for today: I know why you moved artillery to division level but now if you bombard with the artillery the division cannot take part in the attack afterwards. A lot of nations had artillery CORPS (and Divisions) for heavy bombardments...perhaps make a heavy artillery unit for this.

(in reply to Ormand)
Post #: 60
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