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Re-reading the old posts - 10/18/2016 6:24:29 PM   
ab067

 

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War in Russia is a real gem.

Unfortunately a lot of the knowledge for playing the game is not effectively documented.

By going back through the old posts I am finding pearls of wisdom.

It is necessary to be comfortable and conversant with the manual to have an appreciation for the topics discussed.

Page 72 to 65 relate to version WIR v2.0, the upgrades prior to v3.0, and the anticipation of release of v3.0.

From 65 to 61 (which is as far as I have read today) the topics deal with v3.0. Discussion is about bugs, fixes, hints on gameplay and explanation of items that are confusing.

There are several discussions on the weakness of the AI and the two views on human vs human play and human vs AI. Essentially if you play against the AI follow the historical settings, ie don't change production or do anything gamey just to win and it will be a pleasant experience.

If you play against another human, there are house rules.

Page 61 has an interesting article "Campaign '44" in which one of the players just plays the air war against the AI. ie a Air Battle for Berlin.

It is faintly reminiscent of Talonsoft's Battle of Britain/12 o'clock High Bombing the Reich.

Originally posted by Mist: For those who will try to play '44. It is good idea to try "Battle for Germany" ("Battle for Britain" in opposite). Set both human controls and defend your oil/industry from AI directed strategic bombings. Quite exciting is it. It does not take as much time as whole campaign and is still very interesting to look what max can you do in air. Changing production and pool management is certanly important. P.S. Ed, Ricky! You should look at this because there are strange things happening(59 Killoton bombings, no sustains damage message etc). I have no savefile with 0.3+ probability of these events, but I had at least couple of dozen of them in '44-'45.
I never thought of it as a bombing game :) Regarding the no sustains massive damage, I have seen that and I think it is related to either no active factory in the city (already bombed to rubble) or it misses the target, due to bad weather or inaccurate bombers or something. I think Ed has added it to our list already as a minor bug, or at least it has been discussed. Thanks for the info on it - not having played WIR-Bombing of the Reich I didn't realize you would see it so often in the late game.

_____________________________

Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi




< Message edited by ab067 -- 11/12/2016 4:31:49 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/19/2016 10:37:54 AM   
ab067

 

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Page 60 to 58:

Issues regarding fixing play balance, numerous bugs surfacing, complaints of lack of information, poor AI and the difficulty in correcting problems with a flawed game engine that is hardwired.

Players are enjoying the scenario editor; introduction of Wirhack, a program that allows modifications of wir.exe. Possum mod mentioned.

More tips on gameplay and suggestions on making the game more historically accurate.

Several players and game testers are making notable contributions and suggestions.

Still about two months away from the V3.1 patch.


(in reply to ab067)
Post #: 2
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/20/2016 4:27:50 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 57

More discussions on historical vs ahistorical strategies, limitations of the AI with changes to the formulas for combat routines and production. There appear to be problems with the alt/r report containing errors. Players have picked this up by using the editwir. Also because there are many changes being made(large and small), some of the changes are not noted and forgotten.

Mist provided an excellent method for learning the game:
quote:

Originally posted by Merlin: Since WIR is very detailed, it's very hard playing it. So I need help on how to play it, if you're saying "read the manual" then tell me where to start by reading it. This game is really good!!.. so help me please! Thanks in advance! :)

I think the most important is to understand readiness concept. The first thing I did was reading of manual couple of times. Then I marked every mention of readiness loss and readiness gain. In opposite, production is IMHO the last thing to mess with. The best way to learn how to play is to play the game for Germans in 1941 and post your questions here in forum which is pretty alive and you'll probably get the complete answer almost immediately. Manual is obsolete due to many changes which were made in last versions, but it is enough to understand game basics.

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/20/2016 9:38:48 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 56

Two best discussions on game play are these threads:

What's important? by Rundstedt

Startegies and Tactics by Kuniworth

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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/21/2016 11:38:59 AM   
ab067

 

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Page 55

More players joining with questions.

Two threads:

Appearance of German Weapons started by Rundstedt, contains some hints on plotting.

Some Questions by Micha, formula for Italian front collapsing.

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/21/2016 4:04:04 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 54

Complaints about some players using tactics which exploit bugs in pbem.

A short thread on Airplane Interdiction Mission by crazy_horse007 is interesting.

Best thread is: Panzer Korps....should have at least 1 PZ div by Muzrub.

Since this is still V3.0 some of the items/bugs discussed may be corrected in later updates.


(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/21/2016 5:03:48 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 53

More players are understanding the mechanics of the game and issues with various bugs/exploits are surfacing. There are still discussions on historical vs ahistorical gameplay.

No one trusts the AI and it appears everyone micromanages the game, never using Computer Operational Control because of any errors/dumb moves the AI might make.

The play testers mention that the AI code is hard to understand.

Two threads of interest:

Air Power - Axis/Russia by Pantakari

How can I free Pool equippment? by moonfog


(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/22/2016 4:51:28 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 52

Ver 3.1 released.

Initially problems with some of the original AI bugs re-activated.

Re-released an update shortly later.

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/22/2016 8:41:57 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 51

Complaints about the AI blunders and more players are getting involved with using editwir.

WirHack v2.0 out.

More information on updated calculations for the strengths required on Western and Italian Fronts.

WIR v3.101 released. Things of change include new icons, new maps and colours.


(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/22/2016 9:14:11 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 50 and 49

Strong community involvement.

Updated version of Wirhack v2.11 and Editwir.

Possum is making changes to OBwir file.

Players are discovering more anomalies/bugs/inconsistencies.

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/23/2016 4:42:21 PM   
ab067

 

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I just realized why there are so many questions from newbies about War in Russia (WIR) and problems with the documentation.

When SSI Gary Grigsby's Second Front (SF) came out the manual included lots of information. Unfortunately, there were undocumented items included in the game. Included at the end of the manual were tables and formulas.

Next, SSI GG West Front (WF) came out. The WF manual included some additional items and dropped some other explanations. The tables and formulas appeared to be identical to SF. The inter-phase also went from keyboard to mouse.

When WIR came out the manual omitted some more items and included other bits of information. The tables and formulas still appear to be the same.

Then from v1.0 to v2.0 there were more changes, some were documented, some not. There was some mention in the forum that also occurred from v2.0 to v3.3.

If you joined the game at v3.0 there are gaps in your knowledge.

So, to gain the most information, read SF and WF manuals as well as WIR manual and the documented updates.

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/24/2016 1:34:57 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 48

Discussions on the AI, leadership, HQ mules (swapping HQ's so that units remained supplied), more bugs surfacing.

There are more players involved and contributing ideas. PBEM is an ongoing discussion because the AI is not challenging enough. The AI is better on defence than offence and that was also mentioned in SSI's West Front.


(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/24/2016 9:02:05 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 47

Possum discovers that HQ behaviour is hardcoded and cannot be changed.

More new players and everyone is PBEM and discovering bugs.

heiks has mentioned in numerous posts about a player tool he made called WIRAssistant, unfortunately I cannot find any valid link to the program.

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/26/2016 9:14:12 AM   
ab067

 

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Page 46

More players using WIRedit to check variables in the game.

Three articles with interesting information.

One is on protecting oil fields is about the range of fighters defending against the allied airforce.

The second is about production and changing equiptment types.

The last is about airpower and the difference in casualty rates for cannon vs load.


(in reply to ab067)
Post #: 14
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/26/2016 9:43:01 AM   
ab067

 

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Page 45

Some discussion on players using Possum's WIR and Mist's WIR scenarios.

Two good threads:

One is a exploiting a bug using a technique to increase Soviet aircraft experience.

Second is a good discussion on Soviet strategy.

(in reply to ab067)
Post #: 15
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/26/2016 12:46:10 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 44

Thread on HQ's and OP's has an explanation on replacement HQ's and the need to adjust their standard replacement rate from 0 (zero).

AAR on a scenario called Great Patriotic War.

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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/26/2016 1:00:36 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 43

New WIR v3.2

Production is the main change.

New WIRHack v3.2

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/27/2016 9:50:41 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 42

Possum is coming out with V5

Thread about HQ Range has an interesting bit of info.

Also the thread called "My impressions of the updated version" is a good read.

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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/28/2016 2:00:43 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 41

Rich Dionne has revised the icons.

Not much else.

Computer Gaming World in issue 5.1 and 5.2 has an article on WIR.

http://www.cgwmuseum.org/galleries/issues/cgw_5.1.pdf

http://www.cgwmuseum.org/galleries/issues/cgw_5.2.pdf

This part of the article I found interesting. It seems that during the pulse turn the AI can move the other player's unit before your plot takes effect.

Trenches and initiative; these are the two
concepts of WIR which have made lasting
impressions. You may remember that the
first installment of our story ended with a
German advance of two hexes by an armored
unit to a spot northwest of Voronezh.
I also had an infantry unit advance one hex
so that the armor was in contact with the rest
of my forces. Well, on Turn Five, the computer
made Kirk the "first player" in the tactical
movement segment. (Each turn, there
is a 5-10% chance that the Russians will
move first in the turn, with the chance increasing
as the war progresses). Turn Five
just happened to be one which was selected,
and so Kirk's forces were moved first. He attacked
the infantry unit behind my armor
and forced it to retreat; this put my armor out
of supply and isolated. Further, I had plotted
a one hex retreat for my armor to join the infantry
unit, as I felt that the armor was too
exposed and wanted to reinforce the infantry
behind it. Instead of joining my infantry,
my armor unit found itself attacking the Russians
which had just cut it off. The attach
was resolved at one-to-one odds and, of
course, did not move the Russians; this was
not at all how I had planned for things to go
on this turn! I am not sure what can be done
about the initiative question, I guess that the
moral is just that the Russians will be given
the first move only whenever it can do you
the most harm (this was the only turn in our
game for which they received the first move).

< Message edited by ab067 -- 10/28/2016 2:06:01 PM >

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/28/2016 3:59:42 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2641
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From: Bedfordshire UK
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Good find, I started playing WIR with this very first version (shown in the CGW link), in the mid 80s, cost over 80GBP in those days. The graphics were so primitive and it could only be played on a B&W screen, as it was US format. I made up a map on a blank hex sheet and played with AH 'Third Reich' counters.

Great times.

I still remember the shock of losing the 24th Pz Korps, the most powerful unit on the board, in the first winter,

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 10/28/2016 4:14:56 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/28/2016 9:35:36 PM   
ab067

 

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WirHack v3.2.1 is out.

Thread on the Italian front collapsing has more info on stopping the collapse.

Weather Dice has some statistics on weather probabilty odds.

Possum is working on improving his version of obwir.

"V3.2 ver again" thread has some information about changes to V3.2 and the effectiveness of interdiction.


(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 21
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/29/2016 8:48:12 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2641
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From: Bedfordshire UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ab067

Computer Gaming World in issue 5.1 and 5.2 has an article on WIR.

http://www.cgwmuseum.org/galleries/issues/cgw_5.1.pdf

http://www.cgwmuseum.org/galleries/issues/cgw_5.2.pdf


Wandering through some of the other issues of CGW in this archive and found this from 1984 :

WIR is an example of what Gary Grigsby refers to when
he talks about "programming for effect". In a simulation
of something as sprawling as the Eastern Front in WWII
it is not possible to represent every small detail. Instead, as
many factors as possible are incorporated into the program
with the goal of recreating the "feel" that was felt at the
specific level that is being simulated. In WIR, Grigsby has
succeeded in recreating the feel of the problems and considerations
at the Operational level.

WIR has 'feel' in bucket loads, whilst so many games have now been lost in detail, it's almost a shame that computers have become so capable, as it has led many game designers into a mountain of detail and missing the essential 'feel' of a game.

Now you can feel more like a systems analyst than a strategist.

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/29/2016 10:49:53 AM   
ab067

 

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Wandering through the CGW archives I had forgotten about the transition from board games to computer games and the rise of the AI player.

Players at the time complained about the limitations and dumbness of the AI compared to a human player. While true, I have found in playing WIR the AI can be an enjoyable opponent that captures the nostalgia of that time.

I play WIR to immerse myself in the game, not to beat the AI.

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/29/2016 11:15:36 AM   
ab067

 

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Page 39

Several threads with good explanations:

Newbie questions (longish) ... undocumented items clarified by possum.

CAP ..... explanation about the 7 hex limit for interception and the percentage of aircraft that will intercept.

I hope the Kremlin is insulated ..... explanation on production by possum.

Readiness loss for combat.

(in reply to ab067)
Post #: 24
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/30/2016 1:12:45 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 38

Talk of an update in the works for WIR v3.2.

Best threads with some information are:

OP levels

Campaign '44 AAR

Combat Air Patrol

Possum ver 5

RickyB and Ed Cogburn are tireless in helping answer posts about WIR.


(in reply to ab067)
Post #: 25
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/30/2016 2:18:42 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 37

Little bits of information in the following threads:

Aircraft Unit Size

FULL HUMAN FACTORY/UPGRADE CONTROL (SHIFT/F)

JU87G vs HS129

Situation Desperate ..... about stacking.

German Allies and Partisans......... strategies on handling partisans.


(in reply to ab067)
Post #: 26
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/31/2016 11:11:46 AM   
ab067

 

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Page 36

Lots of good threads on this page.

Tank busting (formulas and experience), Research, Cap vs Escort, readiness formulas, Attrition during blizzards, V3.2, etc.

An updated version of WIRassistant.

If anyone has a copy of WIRassistant can you pm me please.


(in reply to ab067)
Post #: 27
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/31/2016 5:43:24 PM   
ab067

 

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Going through the archives of CGW, I came across a reference to WIR and the AI routines.

CGW #40 Oct 1987 page 54

As for your remarks concerning
Kampfgruppe, when presented with
your comments, SSI conceded that
there is no stacking limit in the game.
However, they continued, Gary Grigsby
made a design decision not to have a
stacking limit because he felt it added
an artificiality to the system. The computer
opponent does not intentionally
pile troops into one area. Instead, the
computer groups units according to objectives.
If there is a large concentration,
it is due to the location of an objective,
not a "sucker punch." It is interesting to
note that the stacking limitation was enforced
in Battlegroup (Grigsby's followup
to Kampfgruppe), but that game has
never been as popular its predecessor.
As for War in Russia, the designer felt
that Minsk was a reasonable opening
move in order to facilitate consolidation
in the face of superior (at least, normally)
Germans. Paul Murray, who
programmed the AI routines established
an auto-retreat in order to establish
such a consolidated line. Nevertheless,
Paul states that the Al does search to
find where Panzer Corps go and the
program will reinforce according to
where the most Panzers are.

(in reply to ab067)
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RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/31/2016 6:00:55 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 35

Possums's new WIR campaign version (5) is now available.

Best threads:

What's your worst mistake in WIR.

Dnieper line '43.

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Post #: 29
RE: Re-reading the old posts - 10/31/2016 7:20:27 PM   
ab067

 

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Page 34

They shoot horses, don't they ........ discussion on Soviet airwar strategy.

Artillery barrage..... short thread.

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Post #: 30
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