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Extend to 1942-43 - 10/12/2016 7:38:49 PM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings to All,
Can this simulation be extended to 1942-43 campaign?
I would be interested to see further DLC or scenarios from the publisher to extend the game.
I am on the fence with this title in terms of purchase.
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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/12/2016 9:48:35 PM   
lancer

 

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Hi rommel,

The game provides a detailed look at '41 which was the key year of the campaign. If you're after a game that portrays the full length of Barbarossa, War In the East might be a better bet although both games have a very different focus and approach.

Cheers,
Cameron (designer)

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 2
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/12/2016 10:58:43 PM   
Philippeatbay


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And for whatever it's worth, Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue already covered the southern two thirds of that campaign in quite a bit of detail, just not using DC:Barbarossa's full approach.

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Post #: 3
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/12/2016 11:07:09 PM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings lancer,
I appreciate your clarification on the game. I think I will opt for Tigers on the Hunt: More fronts and years.
I cut my teeth in he 60's on Avalon Hills Panzer Blitz, Stalingrad, Squad Leader, Russian Front, Advanced Squad Leader, Critical Hit Advanced Tobruck system (good stuff):, Band of Brothers & Not one Step Back, Conflict of Heroes Awakening the Bear, LnL Heroes of Stalingrad, Panzer Command Ostfront, Combat Mission X1 & x2. I also play all the HPS sims in all eras: panzer campaigns, squad battles, civil war, Napoleonic, Early American, Naval warfare. Also play Histwar les Grognards & Scourge of war Anniversary edition & Scourge of war Waterloo.
At 64+ years I am getting picky at what I buy. But I will continue to follow the forum. I was also just diagnosed with stage 0 leukemia so my wargaming is marked and limited.

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 4
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/13/2016 1:21:01 AM   
budd


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Lancer so anything you can share about plans for the DC series? I remember there was going to be an announcement and then the plans changed.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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Post #: 5
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/13/2016 2:51:36 AM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings Lancer & budd,
Thanks for the reference to Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue. I will check on it.
Having played HPS France 1940 & Avalon Hill France 1940 I am curious about Decisive Campaigns: Blitzkrieg Warsaw to Paris.
I wonder if there are any plans to retrofit them to DC Barbarossa engine? I think the western desert would be ideal as the next installment.
I remember Gary Grisby with Kampgruppe and War in Russia SSI titles back in the DOS days.
I do not want the micromanagement, down to the number of rifles, of his War in the East.
I will keep DC Barbarossa on my radar.

(in reply to budd)
Post #: 6
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/13/2016 3:09:48 AM   
budd


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Vic referenced a big patch upcoming for Case Blue and then Warsaw to Paris. There both great games, there's a bit more management with the 2 earlier games as artillery and planes are on map units.There's a few AAR's in the forums you could check out to get an idea of the gameplay.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 7
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/13/2016 3:49:12 AM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings Phillppe at bay,
My apology for not acknowledging you post in my earlier reply on DC Case Blue.

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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/13/2016 11:20:54 PM   
lancer

 

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Hi Budd,

quote:

Lancer so anything you can share about plans for the DC series? I remember there was going to be an announcement and then the plans changed.


Vic is currently making 'Shadow Empires'. He'd be the best person to tell you about it but, from what I gather, it's a Scifi hex and counter groggy type game with random maps and with similarities to his Advanced Tactics. There's more information about it on his VR website.

Whether Vic is eventually going to circle back around and make another Decisive Campaigns game after finishing Shadow Empires or perhaps get somebody else to do one, as I did with Barbarossa (using Vic's engine and help. Vic did the AI), is another question best aimed at Vic.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 9
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/13/2016 11:21:18 PM   
lancer

 

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Hi Rommel,

Sorry to hear that. You've got a predominately tactical orientated set of games there - have you looked at the Conflict of Heroes board game as it's got a very innovative solo expansion?

Playing a physical game can be more rewarding sometimes than sitting in front of a computer as your imagination tends to work harder. Maybe it's just the fun of rolling dice to get an outcome rather than 'clicking' on a button to get the same.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 10
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/14/2016 10:37:30 AM   
wodin


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lancer I really want the DC 3 engine to be used for a WW1 game. The decisions\role play aspect make sit perfect for WW1..though trench warfare would have to be model. I can see say you need to plan for an summer offensive and all the decisions and choices you make leading upto the offensive will have a big impact on how the offensive pans out.

Or drop down in scale to company. Where your dealing with battalion\regiment\brigade upto division commanders. Dealing with orders from your inept Brigade commander who also hates you as he orders you to attack and attain impossible objectives, plus the order and time schedule for completion shows how inept he is as it's obvious he has no idea about how strong the forces infront of you are..so you have to manage as best as possible..or deal with division commanders who constantly interfere in tactics. Then you have superb company commander who adds a bonus to the particular coy..losing him would be a blow..I'm excited thinking about the possibilities.

< Message edited by wodin -- 10/14/2016 10:43:22 AM >


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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/14/2016 2:20:33 PM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings lancer & wodin,
I have many boardgames including Conflict of Heroes. I agree that boardgames make you use the imagination, like reading a book and picturing being there. I have marched to the drums and followed the Eagles of Napoleon in the entire Martial Enterprises and Clash of Arms series beginning with La Bataille de la Moscowa. Kevin Zuker's OSG Napoleonic titles are excellent for the historical gamer like myself. Simtacs Napoleonic games are also excellent https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamefamily/2335/simtac-napoleonic-series.
The Battles in the Age of Reason series from Clash of Arms satisfies the 7 Years War theme and American War of Independence. Avalon Hills The Longest Day monster game and the Streets of Stalingrad 1st edition were daunting but rewarding. Also true of the GDW Europa series starting with Drang nach Osten! http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/The_Europa_Series
However, lack of space (wife is a quilter occupying all spare space in large apartment w/her hobby) and being legally blind make the computer versions easy to set up and MAGNIFY. The advent of ADC 2, Cyberboard & others allows many classic wargames to be played in larger graphic format on the screen.
DC Barbarossa and Case Blue will stay on my radar as possible winter sale purchase. I look forward to news of future games/expansions.
Which would you recommend DC Barbarossa or DC Case Blue as first to try?

(in reply to wodin)
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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/14/2016 2:42:44 PM   
budd


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Both fine games but I'd go with DC Barbarossa, it's different, it has personality with the institution of the relationships and it's surprising replayable. The number of counters isnt overwhelming, although some folks missed not having artillery and planes as on map units. I'd read some AAR's to help you make your choice.

< Message edited by **budd** -- 10/14/2016 2:49:45 PM >


_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 13
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/15/2016 2:51:38 AM   
lancer

 

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Hi Wodin,

quote:

lancer I really want the DC 3 engine to be used for a WW1 game. The decisions\role play aspect make sit perfect for WW1..though trench warfare would have to be model. I can see say you need to plan for an summer offensive and all the decisions and choices you make leading upto the offensive will have a big impact on how the offensive pans out.


Yep, WW1 would work and could be, with the right focus, very interesting. Even stalemated trench warfare could be a goer if you dropped the scale and zeroed in on the personalties involved, as you've indicated.

However the further you step away from the big name WW2 battles the more the pool of potential customers tends to fragment. Might not be the case but that's the Publisher's view and they've been selling wargames for a while so I'd tend to back their experience.

Cheers,
Cameron

< Message edited by lancer -- 10/15/2016 3:01:58 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/15/2016 6:46:15 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer

Hi Wodin,

quote:

lancer I really want the DC 3 engine to be used for a WW1 game. The decisions\role play aspect make sit perfect for WW1..though trench warfare would have to be model. I can see say you need to plan for an summer offensive and all the decisions and choices you make leading upto the offensive will have a big impact on how the offensive pans out.


However the further you step away from the big name WW2 battles the more the pool of potential customers tends to fragment. Might not be the case but that's the Publisher's view and they've been selling wargames for a while so I'd tend to back their experience.

Cheers,
Cameron
warspite1

Well there's no arguing with the economic facts of life, but that's a pretty depressing comment to read all the same.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/15/2016 7:41:43 AM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer

Hi Wodin,

quote:

lancer I really want the DC 3 engine to be used for a WW1 game. The decisions\role play aspect make sit perfect for WW1..though trench warfare would have to be model. I can see say you need to plan for an summer offensive and all the decisions and choices you make leading upto the offensive will have a big impact on how the offensive pans out.


However the further you step away from the big name WW2 battles the more the pool of potential customers tends to fragment. Might not be the case but that's the Publisher's view and they've been selling wargames for a while so I'd tend to back their experience.

Cheers,
Cameron
warspite1

Well there's no arguing with the economic facts of life, but that's a pretty depressing comment to read all the same.


And nothing new.

And since US is such a huge market it is often a good idea to make games, and movies, that will appeal to the US market.

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/18/2016 4:58:20 PM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings to All,
After reading more AARs and viewing several youtube videos, I am leaning toward DC Case Blue since I like that 42-43 period on the Eastern Front. Higher counter density is not a problem for me after slogging through John Tiller's Stalingrad & Kursk Campaign titles.
I like the card system used for command options to influence stages of the campaign. May eventually pick up DC FWtP for more variety along w/DC Barbarossa.


Future titles should stick to U.S. market appeal, as lancer and Orm point out, so the series sells and keeps going forward.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 17
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/18/2016 6:59:46 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Future titles should stick to U.S. market appeal, as lancer and Orm point out, so the series sells and keeps going forward.
warspite1

What is the % split of war game sales US vs Rest of the World?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 18
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/19/2016 12:55:21 AM   
governato

 

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From a business point of view I would see yearly extensions to DC Barbarossa (42-43, 43-44, 44-45 and the associated full campaigns)
as relatively 'easy/efficient' to add and they would provide a steady cash flow and..a lot of entertainment for the players. I'd surely buy them. It's a topic that never gets old and with very 'traditional' competition (WITE comes to mind).

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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/22/2016 7:15:00 PM   
wodin


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With an engine this good I really can't see it being an issue if it was set during WW1. The engine will sell the game.

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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/24/2016 12:29:02 PM   
demyansk


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I wonder if this system would work for a Vietnam type of game with military and political decisions?

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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/24/2016 5:40:02 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Future titles should stick to U.S. market appeal, as lancer and Orm point out, so the series sells and keeps going forward.
warspite1

What is the % split of war game sales US vs Rest of the World?

warspite1

?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/25/2016 12:48:00 AM   
Stryder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

With an engine this good I really can't see it being an issue if it was set during WW1. The engine will sell the game.


I can't imagine what part of any WW1 game would be interesting. The western front would be a complete snooze. On the Eastern front, there are several inept armies slogging it out until the non-decisive collapse of Russia.

I can't think of how this DC engine would have any marked difference. What decisions would need political points? -to not make an attack for several years? -or launch the completely futile attack doomed to failure?

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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/25/2016 3:02:12 AM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings warspite 1,
2016 video/computer games breakdown for U.S. market: (only 6% are strategy games)
http://essentialfacts.theesa.com/Essential-Facts-2016.pdf

Projected sales for US market 2016:
http://venturebeat.com/2016/08/16/u-s-game-sales-to-hit-25-3-billion-in-2016-thanks-to-rapid-online-growth/

CNBC worldwide projected sales 2015:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/26/digital-gaming-sales-hit-record-61-billion-in-2015-report.html

2016 Game Revenue by COUNTRY: China #1 & U.S #2 & Japan #3 then drops off quickly
https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-100-countries-by-game-revenues/

From wargamer.net:
http://wargaming.com/en/news/trends_in_game_industry/

Wargaming, especially strategy, is still a small niche market.
If I come across more detailed or specific reports I will post them.




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RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/25/2016 9:32:48 AM   
Vic


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Hey all,

There is also something as time being a limiting factor.

For the moment I am working on Shadow Empire, but when its finished I am defintely considering doing a new DC title. I love world war 2 history and it would be a nice switch to go back to it.

In the meantime I am supporting DC:Community Project (the editor) and willing to support (within reason) any promising scenario designer when specific extra features and / or libraries are needed.

Best wishes,
Vic

< Message edited by Vic -- 10/25/2016 9:33:41 AM >


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Post #: 25
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/25/2016 9:57:27 AM   
lancer

 

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Hi rommel,

That's an interesting PDF you've dug up.

According to it, sales for Strategy games on the PC are around 36% of the total (which would vary, I suppose, depending on how tightly you wanted to define 'strategy'). The 6% is for mobile devices.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 26
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/25/2016 12:28:50 PM   
wodin


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Honestly lower the scale and Western front would be fantastic..even higher scale..it's the decision aspect which would be a major part of the game..I'm a WW1 obsessive so know what I'm talking about here. Who knows get the planning right, the right training the right planning and with abit of luck who knows you may get that hoped for breakthrough into open warfare!! or lower scale would work great maybe lowest unit is a platoon. Any period would be fine. It's a fascinating war with a constant supply of new tech and new tactics needed to be learned hence why it actually could be very interesting indeed.

Plus it wouldn't be political points as such..more like experience points maybe..loads of decisions and planning needed. It would easy work..if there weren't lots of decisions to be made and planning etc for something like the Somme battle then you wouldn't have the endless supply of books about it.You wouldn't stick to the Barbarossa rule set..it would be totally modified to fit in with WW1. The actual core mechanics is all that's need, then you reinterpret them in a different way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: jfarber


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

With an engine this good I really can't see it being an issue if it was set during WW1. The engine will sell the game.


I can't imagine what part of any WW1 game would be interesting. The western front would be a complete snooze. On the Eastern front, there are several inept armies slogging it out until the non-decisive collapse of Russia.

I can't think of how this DC engine would have any marked difference. What decisions would need political points? -to not make an attack for several years? -or launch the completely futile attack doomed to failure?



< Message edited by wodin -- 10/25/2016 12:35:58 PM >


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Post #: 27
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/25/2016 2:03:17 PM   
rommel222

 

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Greetings lancer,
Thanks for the correction. But of that 36% the number of military strategy games, like titles at matrixgames, is a small fraction of that figure. I one had total sales figures fro matrix & slitherine that could be compared to U.S. total to get a very rough estimate of the %
A few titles made it in PC Gamer's top strategy games:
http://www.pcgamer.com/best-strategy-games-on-pc/

Online wargaming, such as world of tanks & warships, has greatly increased interest in wargames.

The computer/video industry worldwide sales from statista: (click show more & blue hotlinks)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/278181/video-games-revenue-worldwide-from-2012-to-2015-by-source/


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Post #: 28
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/25/2016 10:40:55 PM   
lancer

 

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Hi Rommel,

Yep, you're correct. Military strategy is a small subset of strategy games and hex and counter style wargames are a tiny subset of that.

Paradox sold around 150,000 copies of their latest iteration of Hearts of Iron so there's a market there but perhaps one for a more modern approach.

Cheers,
Cameron

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 29
RE: Extend to 1942-43 - 10/26/2016 1:17:04 AM   
demyansk


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This is a good thread. The dc3 seems to be a favorable system and many players like it. I think any title using it would probably work. Western Front of 1940 would be interesting along with Sea lion.

Thanks Vic for making these games. I get tired of Battlefield 4.

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 30
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