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How to use Air Intercepts missions?

 
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How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/11/2016 11:49:31 PM   
Gneckes

 

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Hi there,

I'm finding myself struggling to set up effective Air Intercept missions, so if someone could help with what some good parameters are, and what the advantages and disadvantages over using an AAW Patrol are, that would help me a lot.
Post #: 1
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/12/2016 9:16:47 AM   
Cik

 

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advantages: surprise. the enemy can't actually radar you until you're in the air, so you can take off behind and pounce with some ease
while you're on the ground you're not using fuel, and you're not tying up your forces in maintenance by waiting in the air for the enemy to show.
you're not presenting targets for the enemy's hypothetical fighters to jump in and shoot at.
you're not vulnerable to unscouted AD snapping on it's radar and shooting you down
you're not vulnerable to getting trapped defensive by repeated fox 1 shots

disadvantages: you're at an energy disadvantage due to low altitude / speed until you make your climb to cruising altitude
you can be bombed on the ground if the enemy breaks through with no real recourse on the part of the QRA.
you can't shoot while you're on the ground
you can't really project force and sweep the enemy out of the air while you are not in it yourself
your fighters don't project RADAR/RWR coverage and thus they don't help you gather intelligence


many others

interception missions are for i think a few things:

1. for completeness sake, it's nice to have the ability to use the targeting list for hunting HVAs and deep raids against enemy ELINT / AEW when you want to get in there, shoot them down and then RTB in A/B
2. off the deck ambushes where you know the enemy is not going to be able to just offensive counter air you into the dirt; if the enemy A/F is primarily a interceptor-based force and your airfield is well defended you can hunker down behind your AD and only sally out to take shots at HVA/vulnerable targets.
3. you can simulate a QRA by leaving a few fighters assigned to the mission and then leave the targets blank until you are being threatened somewhere and then scramble alert fighters


you should use patrols when you actually care about the enemy crossing certain bits of territory; if your only care is shooting down the enemy it's to your immense disadvantage to actually patrol somewhere you can be attacked on equal or disadvantaged terms. if all you want to do is shoot down enemy fighters, sallying off the deck might be worthwhile assuming you have decent AD.

(in reply to Gneckes)
Post #: 2
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/12/2016 12:51:03 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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The difference between the two is functional. Patrol zones allow planes to loiter and patrol. Upside is they are part of the detection process and act as your defensive line. Downside is they expend fuel doing so and depending on the size and shape our your zone may not be in a great position to intercept. You can limit and shape their patrol intercepts using a prosecution zone. Intercept missions are probably the most fuel efficient as their function is to intercept detected targets. You can limit their range using range in the mission profile and the kinds of targets based on posture. Keeping with the football metaphor they are like your linebackers/safeties.

Mike



_____________________________


(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 3
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/12/2016 1:47:30 PM   
Gneckes

 

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Thank you guys for the explanations. I should've been able to figure it out myself, but oh well.
The scenario in question for me was Canary Cage, so the initial threat is from F-16 Block 42 fighters and some attackers, Mirage 2000s I believe. In my last attempt, using an AAW patrol streteched my fighters pretty thin, especially considering the largish area that needed to be covered to protect my ASW assets.
I think this time I'll try letting the enemy tire himself out against my ship-based SAMs and possibly interceptors, and hold off on launching the Orions and ASW helos until either the majority of their fighters have been destroyed, or I can launch a strike on their airfields.

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 4
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/12/2016 5:44:30 PM   
Cik

 

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i've never used interception for canary's cage; it's a force projection scenario, and the distances involved means scrambling off the deck is a no-go assuming you want to get up to the enemy with any real speed.

what i do is split my AAW into two forces, one CAP to protect grupo alfa as it steams SW, consisting of most of the harriers off of alfa's carrier and some from rota, patrolling behind or near the ships themselves (to benefit from the AD blanket; unfortunately harriers are REALLY TERRIBLE) and then a CAP covering sidi slamane, to protect my fighters transiting to <----> from spain as well as any ASW / AEW flying around on various taskings near delta / alpha's tail. once sidi slamane's air forces have been attritted you can shift increasing numbers of hornets forward to protect alpha's leading edge, which you'll probably need to do as the amount of vampires increases steadily as you move south.

the most important thing at least is maintaining your AEW / ASW around alfa's leading edge. the sea is dark and full of goblins (most of the time)

the real limit in that scenario is your tankers; as you steam south you really start to run thin on fuel; playtime is ever-decreasing and the demands on your very limited hercules becomes really bad. whatever you do protect the tankers, and try not to lose too many of your carrier-based harriers or you're going to have real problems maintaining your ALFACAP.

i should mention that prosecution zones for AAW patrols are basically required so you can shape your forces' response to bandits. make sure you're shaping them so that your CAPs aren't off chasing bogeys halfway across the planet, only the ones that are beginning to move into the threatzone of your ships. the enemy's fighters are basically a non-issue as long as they aren't threatening you (not that i've ever seen that happen..) there's no reason to chase them over sidi slamane, if they're flying BARCAPs over their own airfield there's no reason to go chasing them.

generally i find using a prosecution zone is wise in 99% of scenarios, it really helps control the bloodthirst of anything on patrols, but especially AAW as they tend to be fast and with high-detection radars they really like to dive into enemy AD nets chasing bandits.

< Message edited by Cik -- 10/12/2016 5:57:36 PM >

(in reply to Gneckes)
Post #: 5
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/12/2016 11:26:52 PM   
cns180784

 

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I did at first try using an intercept mission with my Harriers on the Alfa carrier and i set the intercept range quite far something like 85nm so that they could get off the deck and be up to speed and altitude in time to merge with the bandit(s). The problem i had was they launched to intercept an enemy Hawkeye AWACS a/c which wasnt a direct threat to Alfa or Delta and i only wanted them to intercept bandits that were direct threats. I set mission triggers to hostile so that they wouldnt just intercept anything but still the Hawkeye being declared hostile made them intercept.

Is there a way i can configure what types of hostile a/c my a/c intercept when assigned to an intercept mission? ever since i tried that in Canarys Cage i havent ever used an intercept mission since.

(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 6
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/12/2016 11:43:48 PM   
cns180784

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

i've never used interception for canary's cage; it's a force projection scenario, and the distances involved means scrambling off the deck is a no-go assuming you want to get up to the enemy with any real speed.

what i do is split my AAW into two forces, one CAP to protect grupo alfa as it steams SW, consisting of most of the harriers off of alfa's carrier and some from rota, patrolling behind or near the ships themselves (to benefit from the AD blanket; unfortunately harriers are REALLY TERRIBLE) and then a CAP covering sidi slamane, to protect my fighters transiting to <----> from spain as well as any ASW / AEW flying around on various taskings near delta / alpha's tail. once sidi slamane's air forces have been attritted you can shift increasing numbers of hornets forward to protect alpha's leading edge, which you'll probably need to do as the amount of vampires increases steadily as you move south.

the most important thing at least is maintaining your AEW / ASW around alfa's leading edge. the sea is dark and full of goblins (most of the time)

the real limit in that scenario is your tankers; as you steam south you really start to run thin on fuel; playtime is ever-decreasing and the demands on your very limited hercules becomes really bad. whatever you do protect the tankers, and try not to lose too many of your carrier-based harriers or you're going to have real problems maintaining your ALFACAP.

i should mention that prosecution zones for AAW patrols are basically required so you can shape your forces' response to bandits. make sure you're shaping them so that your CAPs aren't off chasing bogeys halfway across the planet, only the ones that are beginning to move into the threatzone of your ships. the enemy's fighters are basically a non-issue as long as they aren't threatening you (not that i've ever seen that happen..) there's no reason to chase them over sidi slamane, if they're flying BARCAPs over their own airfield there's no reason to go chasing them.

generally i find using a prosecution zone is wise in 99% of scenarios, it really helps control the bloodthirst of anything on patrols, but especially AAW as they tend to be fast and with high-detection radars they really like to dive into enemy AD nets chasing bandits.


I loved Canarys Cage.

What i did was i used my Harriers from Alfa and Rota (at first just my Harriers from Rota, then those from Alfa after i found the intercept mission wasnt the best idea) and used them to fly a BARCAP in between Alfa and Sidi Slimane to protect Alfa/Delta and my ASW assets. I had AEW assets from Alfa/Delta but i think they were flying directly over Alfa so they had the protection of the SAMs.
I maintained two flights of two Harriers in the air nearly all the time whilst my Hornets in Spain prepared for a strike package to destroy the Sidi Slimane ammo stores, which they did and was successful. After those were destroyed the only a/c to launch from Sidi Slimane about an hour or two later (probably more) was a strike package headed for Alfa which were all shot down (just about, the last two bombers were shot down by Alfas' SAMs, at a point where my Harriers couldnt keep up with them).
I was lucky in that the Fox 3's that my Harriers had took care of the F-16's. If they missed then those F-16's would have had my Harriers for lunch in a WVR fight. Later as Alfa sailed South i lost about 6 Harriers to Mig 29's launched from the Canaries after my Harriers' Fox 3's kept missing or were spoofed...my luck ran out but managed to deal with them in the end by luring them into a SAM trap...was a bad time my forces went through, could have been a turning point in the conflict!

(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 7
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/12/2016 11:56:20 PM   
cns180784

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

advantages: surprise. the enemy can't actually radar you until you're in the air, so you can take off behind and pounce with some ease
while you're on the ground you're not using fuel, and you're not tying up your forces in maintenance by waiting in the air for the enemy to show.
you're not presenting targets for the enemy's hypothetical fighters to jump in and shoot at.
you're not vulnerable to unscouted AD snapping on it's radar and shooting you down
you're not vulnerable to getting trapped defensive by repeated fox 1 shots

disadvantages: you're at an energy disadvantage due to low altitude / speed until you make your climb to cruising altitude
you can be bombed on the ground if the enemy breaks through with no real recourse on the part of the QRA.
you can't shoot while you're on the ground
you can't really project force and sweep the enemy out of the air while you are not in it yourself
your fighters don't project RADAR/RWR coverage and thus they don't help you gather intelligence


many others

interception missions are for i think a few things:

1. for completeness sake, it's nice to have the ability to use the targeting list for hunting HVAs and deep raids against enemy ELINT / AEW when you want to get in there, shoot them down and then RTB in A/B
2. off the deck ambushes where you know the enemy is not going to be able to just offensive counter air you into the dirt; if the enemy A/F is primarily a interceptor-based force and your airfield is well defended you can hunker down behind your AD and only sally out to take shots at HVA/vulnerable targets.
3. you can simulate a QRA by leaving a few fighters assigned to the mission and then leave the targets blank until you are being threatened somewhere and then scramble alert fighters


you should use patrols when you actually care about the enemy crossing certain bits of territory; if your only care is shooting down the enemy it's to your immense disadvantage to actually patrol somewhere you can be attacked on equal or disadvantaged terms. if all you want to do is shoot down enemy fighters, sallying off the deck might be worthwhile assuming you have decent AD.


If i want my interceptors to say, only target enemy fighters/attack a/c is there a way i can do it with the target list you mention? because for the target list dont the target a/c have to already be in the air and detected/classified for you to be able to click on them and then add them to the target list?

(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 8
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 12:05:27 AM   
thewood1

 

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Something you can do is use the search feature. This has been discussed a couple times...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3955561&mpage=1&key=intercept�

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3888725&mpage=1&key=intercept�

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3820732&mpage=1&key=intercept�

I only went back to 2015. The first one is the best, in my opinion, but they both provide quite a bit of info.

Search is typically a better souce than guys who have been playing for a week.

(in reply to cns180784)
Post #: 9
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 12:22:36 AM   
cns180784

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Something you can do is use the search feature. This has been discussed a couple times...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3955561&mpage=1&key=intercept�

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3888725&mpage=1&key=intercept�

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3820732&mpage=1&key=intercept�

I only went back to 2015. The first one is the best, in my opinion, but they both provide quite a bit of info.

Search is typically a better souce than guys who have been playing for a week.


Thanks thewood1 i have got used to using the search feature for a lot of things i just forgot to use it on this occasion, my bad.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 10
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 12:37:01 AM   
thewood1

 

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It was more about the other response that said a lot but said very little. Those posts give some pretty explicit instructions, as well as give some of the reasoning behind the design.

(in reply to cns180784)
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RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 2:31:15 AM   
Cik

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1


I only went back to 2015. The first one is the best, in my opinion, but they both provide quite a bit of info.

Search is typically a better souce than guys who have been playing for a week.


months, supplemented by thousands of hours of flight simulation, but don't let your complete lack of knowledge about my experience stop you from being a jerk :^)

quote:

If i want my interceptors to say, only target enemy fighters/attack a/c is there a way i can do it with the target list you mention? because for the target list dont the target a/c have to already be in the air and detected/classified for you to be able to click on them and then add them to the target list?


yeah, but that's not really a problem most of the time. if you need fighters to detect the enemy you shouldn't be using intercepts; in many scenarios you will have base / border radars, radars on your ships or AEW you can put at a safe distance over your own territory to detect incoming bandits. if you are in control of a semi-modern air force your detection range of advanced ELINT / AEW is truly ridiculous, capable of picking up fighter-sized targets often at hundred of NM. in the face of that, fighter radars are still useful but not really needed for detecting and classifying bogeys. like i said upthread, the only thing you need fighters for in that scenario is controlling territory. if that's not important to you, just use intercept(s)

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 12
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 2:43:11 AM   
thewood1

 

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Well your thousands of hours of "flight simulation" sure hasn't taught you how to communicate on a forum. You've been on the forum for less than week and dumped on two different threads. Note my response actually concisely answered the question. And I think the use of a few uppercases made it a little more readable.

I suggest taking a step back, looking at the few posts you have and whether they are really contributing anything worthwhile. Or maybe continue diverging useful threads and spouting on in another thread. It is your choice.

btw, every now and then we get guys with "thousands or hours in flight sims" who think it some badge of honor that makes them experts on the game. I would suggest not trying to impress everyone with your knowledge from "thousands or hours in flight sims" and if you want help, try helping. For someone with "thousands or hours in flight sims" you sure have started your trip through the forum like someone who doesn't have "thousands or hours in flight sims" under your belt. Because we know that having "thousands or hours in flight sims" as experience makes you automatically able to communicate effectively and an expert in the game. So we bow to your "thousands or hours in flight sims".

(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 13
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 2:48:03 AM   
thewood1

 

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So from the feature request thread, where you managed to pretty much de-rail...

"obviously i have no idea what CMANO looks like under the hood, but there are already systems in place for this sort of behavior; it seems to me that the patrol code could be co-opted mostly to provide push point behavior "go here and fly loiter throttle inside this box until this precondition is met then move onwards at cruise to attack"

there's also already handy tabs for patrol / support that mimic behaviors you'd need for push points(?)

so okay not easy but not to the point where inventing some entirely new system is necessary.

there are a few ways to do it though, and some would require more effort i'm sure.

anyway, i'm just happy it's in the works."

I would say take a look in the mirror when talking about "not knowing what you are talking about". But I am sure that someone with "thousands or hours in flight sims" shold be able to come into any game forum and just start throwing crap around. Because, you know, it's easy.

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 14
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 3:03:32 AM   
cns180784

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1


I only went back to 2015. The first one is the best, in my opinion, but they both provide quite a bit of info.

Search is typically a better souce than guys who have been playing for a week.


months, supplemented by thousands of hours of flight simulation, but don't let your complete lack of knowledge about my experience stop you from being a jerk :^)

quote:

If i want my interceptors to say, only target enemy fighters/attack a/c is there a way i can do it with the target list you mention? because for the target list dont the target a/c have to already be in the air and detected/classified for you to be able to click on them and then add them to the target list?


yeah, but that's not really a problem most of the time. if you need fighters to detect the enemy you shouldn't be using intercepts; in many scenarios you will have base / border radars, radars on your ships or AEW you can put at a safe distance over your own territory to detect incoming bandits. if you are in control of a semi-modern air force your detection range of advanced ELINT / AEW is truly ridiculous, capable of picking up fighter-sized targets often at hundred of NM. in the face of that, fighter radars are still useful but not really needed for detecting and classifying bogeys. like i said upthread, the only thing you need fighters for in that scenario is controlling territory. if that's not important to you, just use intercept(s)


Well of course i'd use AWACS if available, failing that ground based search radars which obviously can detect bogeys at over 100nm away depending on the range of the radar, its technology and the targets' signature, altitude and ground clutter being a factor if the target is flying low and over land..but what if the targets' radar is off? ELINT (or RWR which is specific emitter ID capable) is then useless at classifying the contact. All you can hope for then is a very long range and modern optical sensor to classify it...so many variables and in Canarys Cage for example, no such long range modern optical or IR sensors are in use on the carrier.

Thewood1 isnt being a jerk he just has to weed out those who come on here big headed claiming to know everything because they've had thousands of hours experience on flight sims which i can understand and its logical to at least try searching for answers on here using the search function to any questions before posting a thread. I've found Thewood1 to be helpful as he has been in this thread with the links he posted above which i should have found myself but i'll remember next time.

And i've had many hours experience playing Falcon BMS but trust me- i'm still a newbie to this sim and learning all the time. I've literally just learned a lot more messing around in the editor with SAM's for about the last two hours.

< Message edited by cns180784 -- 10/13/2016 3:18:04 AM >

(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 15
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 5:11:17 AM   
Cik

 

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he takes everything i've said in the worst possible way is all.

anyway, the question i guess has been answered, and i don't really want to get into a catfight with wood over my 'bigheadedness' since i'm sure if i did he'd accuse me of derailing threads. catch two-two i'd guess.

canary's cage is my favorite scenario. i've played through it and gotten victories a few times, if you need specific advice just ask and i can probably help (if you are actually having trouble?) otherwise /thread i guess.

(in reply to cns180784)
Post #: 16
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 11:50:15 AM   
thewood1

 

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I take it that way because it was one of your firsts posts. That whole thread was a complete cock up on your part. My point is you've come storming into the forum acting like you know more than anyone, including the devs, because you have...wait for it..."thousands or hours in flight sims". So in your first two threads you leave the impression you know more than the devs. In your second thread you imply that its because have "thousands or hours in flight sims". Neither of those will win you any friends on the forum.

Again, take a step back and think about your first foray into the forum and the impression it left.

(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 17
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 12:57:58 PM   
Cik

 

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nowhere have i actually said any of those things you have accused me of.

i've picked up a fair bit about air ops from planning flights and flying them. i went into the feature request thread and asked for push points

within a few posts i was told by the bare-chested moderator man that they would likely be added when the advanced strike planner stuff was added and that that was in the works.

at that point i was basically satisfied (and still am) on the topic. i hardly think it's derailing to ask a question in the thread provided for it



i only even mentioned the "thousands of hours in flight sims" that you seem to have a problem with because you came into this thread where i was giving advice to someone who asked for it and challenged my experience to speak about the topic (that is, air operations)

if this was a thread about subs i wouldn't be giving advice because i quite literally don't know jack about how they work at all. my inexperience with this game is counterbalanced by the fact that C:MANO does a pretty good job of simulating air ops, and since flight sims also do a pretty good job of portraying realistic air ops the experience transfers to some degree.

the flight planning aspect of the game requires a little experience to get the desired results, but once you can interface with the program it's literally just like planning flights in falcon, which i have lots of experience with.

anyway, i still think you have entirely the wrong idea about what i intended. i never intended literally anything by any of my posts, except perhaps the one in this thread where it upset me a little bit when you came in here and told me my advice was bad without actually stating why any of it was bad except that it was a little verbose and that i'm new.





< Message edited by Cik -- 10/13/2016 1:00:24 PM >

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 18
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 1:23:12 PM   
thewood1

 

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Did you or did you not tell the moderators that what you wanted was easy? Then tried to back off with out backing off. Again, I'll point out how stupid it is to have that as your very first post. And then this thread where you are meandering around an answer when a simple posting of a previous thread would have sufficed. But I guess your "thousands of hours in flight sims" completely qualifies you to post meandering answers and demeaning posts about the devs. Let's face it, you came in and told the devs that what you wanted was easy without having a clue, except your "thousands of hours in flight sims".

You even conceded you didn't really know, yet still said it should be done. Again, as a first post, not very smart. And unless your "thousands of hours in flight sims" somehow gave you insight into the mechanics of Command, you are just digging yourself a credibility hole every time you mention your "thousands of hours in flight sims" as a reason for knowing more than anyone else.

If I had something else to look back on that would let me say, "This guy really knows his stuff", I wouldn't have said anything. But, again, first post series...just trying to let everyone know how smart you are without having a clue. Second post, really not much of a contribution in all those words...again, just trying to look smart.

"thousands of hours in flight sims" does not give you much credibility or insight into operations in Command. You get that insight by doing all the stuff in the New Player thread, searching, and asking simple questions in the appropriate threads. You get the credibility by learning the game and being able to help people find the right resources. You damage credibility by claiming to know more than the devs, and trying to back that up with a claim of having played other games that really aren't very relateable to Command.

This is easy for me because we had several people with "thousands of hours in flight sims" come in and try to swing big d***s around. They have stumbled and realized that the flight sims, regardless of how realistic flying might feel, aren't very realistic in air operations that include air planning, logistics, detailed radar modeling, etc. Even just terminology that you bring doesn't align. In your "push point" posts, if you had done a little searching on the forum, you would have seen it had been discussed. But you are in such a hurry to show the devs how smart you are, you just damaged your own credibility instead.

(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 19
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 7:00:29 PM   
Schr75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

quote:

within a few posts i was told by the bare-chested moderator man...




His name is Kingkong Bundy

(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 20
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 7:18:05 PM   
thewood1

 

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And that comment he made does nothing but prove my point.

(in reply to Schr75)
Post #: 21
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 9:21:40 PM   
Schr75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

And that comment he made does nothing but prove my point.

Yes it did. I just couldn´t resist the possibility to mention Kingkong Bundy.

Sorry

S

(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 22
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 9:33:54 PM   
thewood1

 

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Any day KingKong Bundy is mentioned is a good day. How about a Haystack Calhoun reference.

(in reply to Schr75)
Post #: 23
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/13/2016 10:20:43 PM   
Schr75


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Sorry

I know absolutely nothing about wrestling.

I only know KingKong Bundy from "Married with Children". One of my all time favourite sitcoms.




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(in reply to thewood1)
Post #: 24
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 10/14/2016 12:37:50 AM   
thewood1

 

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Yeah, it was 50/50 which one you were referring to. I went to the good side.

(in reply to Schr75)
Post #: 25
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 1/31/2017 4:57:09 PM   
KungPao


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cns180784


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

i've never used interception for canary's cage; it's a force projection scenario, and the distances involved means scrambling off the deck is a no-go assuming you want to get up to the enemy with any real speed.

what i do is split my AAW into two forces, one CAP to protect grupo alfa as it steams SW, consisting of most of the harriers off of alfa's carrier and some from rota, patrolling behind or near the ships themselves (to benefit from the AD blanket; unfortunately harriers are REALLY TERRIBLE) and then a CAP covering sidi slamane, to protect my fighters transiting to <----> from spain as well as any ASW / AEW flying around on various taskings near delta / alpha's tail. once sidi slamane's air forces have been attritted you can shift increasing numbers of hornets forward to protect alpha's leading edge, which you'll probably need to do as the amount of vampires increases steadily as you move south.

the most important thing at least is maintaining your AEW / ASW around alfa's leading edge. the sea is dark and full of goblins (most of the time)

the real limit in that scenario is your tankers; as you steam south you really start to run thin on fuel; playtime is ever-decreasing and the demands on your very limited hercules becomes really bad. whatever you do protect the tankers, and try not to lose too many of your carrier-based harriers or you're going to have real problems maintaining your ALFACAP.

i should mention that prosecution zones for AAW patrols are basically required so you can shape your forces' response to bandits. make sure you're shaping them so that your CAPs aren't off chasing bogeys halfway across the planet, only the ones that are beginning to move into the threatzone of your ships. the enemy's fighters are basically a non-issue as long as they aren't threatening you (not that i've ever seen that happen..) there's no reason to chase them over sidi slamane, if they're flying BARCAPs over their own airfield there's no reason to go chasing them.

generally i find using a prosecution zone is wise in 99% of scenarios, it really helps control the bloodthirst of anything on patrols, but especially AAW as they tend to be fast and with high-detection radars they really like to dive into enemy AD nets chasing bandits.


I loved Canarys Cage.

What i did was i used my Harriers from Alfa and Rota (at first just my Harriers from Rota, then those from Alfa after i found the intercept mission wasnt the best idea) and used them to fly a BARCAP in between Alfa and Sidi Slimane to protect Alfa/Delta and my ASW assets. I had AEW assets from Alfa/Delta but i think they were flying directly over Alfa so they had the protection of the SAMs.
I maintained two flights of two Harriers in the air nearly all the time whilst my Hornets in Spain prepared for a strike package to destroy the Sidi Slimane ammo stores, which they did and was successful. After those were destroyed the only a/c to launch from Sidi Slimane about an hour or two later (probably more) was a strike package headed for Alfa which were all shot down (just about, the last two bombers were shot down by Alfas' SAMs, at a point where my Harriers couldnt keep up with them).
I was lucky in that the Fox 3's that my Harriers had took care of the F-16's. If they missed then those F-16's would have had my Harriers for lunch in a WVR fight. Later as Alfa sailed South i lost about 6 Harriers to Mig 29's launched from the Canaries after my Harriers' Fox 3's kept missing or were spoofed...my luck ran out but managed to deal with them in the end by luring them into a SAM trap...was a bad time my forces went through, could have been a turning point in the conflict!

I used my F/A-18 to take care of Mig-29. Micromanagement on air-refuel hurts, but it is better than lose your harriers

in this scenario if you compare mig-29 and f-16cg, it is much more harder to kill a Mig-29 with AIM-120B. Because Mig-29 has 2 layer of protection

10:03:00 AM - Contact MiG-29 Fulcrum C #527 has been lost.
10:03:00 AM - Weapon: AIM-120B AMRAAM #1901 is attacking FulcrumArg #9 (MiG-29 Fulcrum C) with a base PH of 90%. PH adjusted for distance: 84%. PH adjusted for actual target speed (915 kts): 79%. FulcrumArg #9 has nominal agility: 4.9. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 3.92. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.32 - Agility adjusted to 3.16. High-deflection impact (no effect on agility). Final agility modifier: -32%. Final PH: 47%. Result: 10 - HIT
10:03:00 AM - Defensive jammer (L-203 Gardenya; Tech: Late 1980s) on FulcrumArg #9 is attempting to spoof sensor: Active Radar Seeker(Tech: Early 1990s)(Of: AIM-120B AMRAAM #1901). Final probability: 15%. Result: 27 - FAILURE
10:03:00 AM - Decoy (Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]; Tech: N/A) from FulcrumArg #9 is attempting to seduce sensor: Active Radar Seeker (Tech: Early 1990s)(Guiding weapon: AIM-120B AMRAAM #1901). Final probability: 15%. Result: 75 - FAILURE

12:52:02 PM - Contact F-16CG Blk 42 Falcon [Peace Vector II Upgr] #224 has been lost.
12:52:02 PM - Weapon: AIM-120B AMRAAM #1107 is attacking Falcon #2 (F-16CG Blk 42 Falcon [Peace Vector II Upgr]) with a base PH of 90%. PH adjusted for actual target speed (648 kts): 90%. Falcon #2 has nominal agility: 4.9. Agility adjusted for proficiency (Regular): 3.92. Aircraft has a weight fraction of 0.16 - Agility adjusted to 3.55. High-deflection impact (no effect on agility). Final agility modifier: -36%. Final PH: 54%. Result: 22 - HIT
12:52:02 PM - Decoy (Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]; Tech: N/A) from Falcon #2 is attempting to seduce sensor: Active Radar Seeker (Tech: Early 1990s)(Guiding weapon: AIM-120B AMRAAM #1107). Final probability: 15%. Result: 93 - FAILURE


So F-16 only has decoy, 15% chance of spoof active-radar seeker.
Mig-29 has Decoy and Jammer, 15% chance on each, total chance is 27.75% chance of success ( 1-0.85*0.85)



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(in reply to cns180784)
Post #: 26
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 1/31/2017 7:29:14 PM   
Cik

 

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yeah. really the air ops in canary's cage are pretty difficult in general around sidi slamane, because the hornets are loaded with the standardCAP which only carries 2 amraams per jet. you are stuck between shotgun, where your guys will bail in the first 10 seconds of the engagement due to shotgun, or winchester where you risk lots of jets trying to close into AA-10 alamo for heater shots.

you can get around this by re-arming 1/2 or so of your hornets with a heavier loadout. that's what i do when replaying it these days. once you have 1/2 or more of your hornets toting 4-6 AMRAAM air superiority gets a little easier. the hornets at least do have a range and PK% advantage, and the strength of your sea-based ADnet should not be overstated. even grupo delta has quite an umbrella, and i think alpha's is noticeably stronger. if all else fails, you can try to bait them into the range of sea sparrows.


(in reply to KungPao)
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RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 2/2/2017 8:21:28 PM   
KungPao


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Yes, I would suggest other players to change the loadout to heavy cap asap. You might need the default standard cap F-18 to beat back the first wave strike. But after that you will need a lot of AIM-120B to keep your AEW/ASW Helo safe. And those ASW Helo are crucial for your victory. also it’s better to rebase several sqn F-18 to the northern base way before the AIM-120 in your main base are drain out. Again, you will need a lot of tanker to support that rebase.

Actually, AIM-120 (40nm) don’t have longer range when compare it to AA-10 (45nm) on Mig-29 or AIM-7M (55nm) on F-16. However I noticed that AI will shot 1st AIM-7F around 35nm, probably it’s a AI doctrine setting (hold fire until confirm hostile) or insufficient radar reflection on a fighter size target (and my OECM plane helped a lot) . So , yes, you should have range advantage. The greatest advantage is it can force AI get into evasion mode and make their SARH missiles lose lock, while you can turn around and run with your Afterburner, or a much better plan, getting close to release next salvo of AIM-120 to ensure higher PoH.


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(in reply to Cik)
Post #: 28
RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 2/2/2017 8:23:59 PM   
KungPao


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If I play this scenario again, I will try something different setting with much more fun. I would coordinate one or two heavy cap load F-18 with several others with a different loading setting (2xAIM-120+6xAIM-9). it’s better to strike from different direction, but it should also work well with one direction too.
The heavy cap F-18 is function as a bait for SARH missiles . AIM-120 will be used as a LMG to provide suppressing fire. Release the first wave AIM-120 as soon as enemy F-16/Mig-29s get into the range, one missile on each target, then manually release the 2nd wave or 3rd wave in every 10s interval. Hopefully it will keep enemy at evasion mode. The other F-18 with AIM-9 will rush in with AB on, release all their AIM-9 when getting into the range, that should be fun.


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(in reply to KungPao)
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RE: How to use Air Intercepts missions? - 2/2/2017 9:44:48 PM   
Cik

 

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you do have to be careful with that though. if you flank them from the wrong direction you can actually cause yourself more problems; the MIGs fire + receive fire from your blocking element of hornets, then they crank- right into your flanking element. the problem is that, should that happen you will probably actually lose your flanking element as the AA-11 archer has superior range, off-boresight capability and PK compared to AIM-9J/JULI that your hornets are carrying.

regards, a guy who has lost scenarios because of that ^

(in reply to KungPao)
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