Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Understanding partisans

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> Understanding partisans Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Understanding partisans - 9/9/2016 2:48:31 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
What factors are involved in deciding when a partisan unit attacks?

According to the manual: "Once a partisan unit is considered combat ready (based on morale, number of partisans and supplies), the partisan unit has a chance to attack"

This does not say anything about how that chance is calculated. As Partisans are subjects of STAVKA, does that mean the chance is decided by the STAVKA Commander Initiative? Anything else?

How does the morale of the partisan unit affect the distance it can attack over? Is it a final liimit (IE morale of 50 means X hexes max) or is it chance based?

How do you people manage your partisans effectively?



_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra
Post #: 1
RE: Understanding partisans - 9/10/2016 12:39:41 AM   
pbhawkin1

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Mudgee, Australia
Status: offline
I can't answer the other questions about partisans but I TRY and manage them by using the SEC regiments that are guarding the major cities to reduce partisan activity by sending them out to kill any nearby partisans within their movement allowance. I also have 1-2 divisions broken down into regiments (preferably Cav) and/or Cav brigades (Rumanian and Hungarian) patrolling near where swamps and forests and rail lines are.

As a addition to the above I would like to know what happens if a city is not guarded for a turn or is only partly guarded (I.e. Yellow) and how this influences partisan generation ?

_____________________________

Regards

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 2
RE: Understanding partisans - 9/10/2016 9:25:36 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2066
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
It's something very abstracted.

As russian I only make sure that they get enough air supply with LI-2 (night air mission) in VVS aibase.

It works... but you cannot ask them to focuse on the decisive rails...


(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 3
RE: Understanding partisans - 9/10/2016 4:16:48 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
Quote: "As a addition to the above I would like to know what happens if a city is not guarded for a turn or is only partly guarded (I.e. Yellow) and how this influences partisan generation?"

According to the manual the formula is Round.Down(ManPower*(1-(Garrisson/Need))). So for example, if a security regiment with 1500 men guards a city with five Manpower points, the formula would be Round.Down(5*(1-(3000/4000))). This would result in a new partisan unit being created with one partisan element will be created. If the same security regiment guarded Leningrad with 40 Manpower, the result would be Round.Down(40*(1-(3000/12000))) and a new partisan unit would be created with 30 partisan elements in it. However, the manual also state, that there is a max to the number of partisan elements that can go into a partisan unit, which is dependant on the number NKVD squads in the partisan unit.

Quote: "It's something very abstracted."

That's just not good enough (at least not for me). As partisans are under STAVKA, what kind of leader should I assign to STAVKA for aggressive partisan use? What leader should I assign for partisan growth? My guess would be to assign a good Morale leader for partisan Morale increase, a good initiative leader for aggressive use of partisans and a good administration leader for partisan growth. But that's just guesswork.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 4
RE: Understanding partisans - 9/11/2016 2:44:43 AM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
To be honest which is like none around here.

They do nothing and never have.


morveal







< Message edited by Pelton -- 9/11/2016 2:49:58 AM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 5
RE: Understanding partisans - 9/11/2016 6:22:52 AM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1624
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
+1

South of the Axis Minor line, mobile axis minors and axis minor divisions do all of the garrison and partisan hunting job. North, it's SEC units. And it's more of a micromanagement hassle than a facet of the game that has any bearing on the outcome.

The game is not so sophisticated that the Partisan war has any impact. If you didn't fly those IL-2s, the German would hardly notice.

_____________________________

Spring 2018-Playing: Demyansk Shield: Frozen Fortress; Advanced Squad Leader,
Reading: Bonhoeffer
Rulebooks: ASL (always ASL), Holland'44, Demyansk Shield: Frozen Fortress

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 6
RE: Understanding partisans - 9/11/2016 11:18:39 AM   
loki100


Posts: 6937
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

To be honest which is like none around here.

They do nothing and never have.


morveal


...


this analysis is a bit simplistic to be honest .

One mid-war trick is not to send any supplies at all for a long period. You will build up a lot of sub-strength formations that don't attack so are not visible to the axis player. Then about 3 turns before a major offensive prioritise resupply to a particular sector - locate a couple of VVS bases with transports so that their range matches the area you want to influence.

all those shell units will reinforce and give you a number of turns of massive attacks in that narrow range. The Germans will of course manage to destroy the active units and repair the rails but you can get lucky.

If the war is over the Dneipr in the south the Germans will have few north-south rail links so a lucky attack or two can split them up. Another good sector is the rail links over the Dauga/Dvina - again once you have made progress westwards there are not so many of these.

Its not going to win the war but it might just give you an extra turn or two before the Germans can respond to a new offensive.


_____________________________


(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 7
RE: Understanding partisans - 7/28/2019 6:44:14 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1514
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

What factors are involved in deciding when a partisan unit attacks?

According to the manual: "Once a partisan unit is considered combat ready (based on morale, number of partisans and supplies), the partisan unit has a chance to attack"

This does not say anything about how that chance is calculated. As Partisans are subjects of STAVKA, does that mean the chance is decided by the STAVKA Commander Initiative? Anything else?

How does the morale of the partisan unit affect the distance it can attack over? Is it a final liimit (IE morale of 50 means X hexes max) or is it chance based?

How do you people manage your partisans effectively?




Found this from 3 years ago and I am also curious as to what is the chance that a partisan Unit will attack.

In my server game I have 43 partisan units, 14 combat ready, and they performed 1 attack. Anyone know the odds?

Note : in the CR they are all listed as Ready. It is only when use the CR Combat Ready Function do you get a subset.

< Message edited by 56ajax -- 7/28/2019 7:12:26 AM >


_____________________________

I want my football club to be pall bearers at my funeral. They can let me down one final time.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 8
RE: Understanding partisans - 7/28/2019 12:49:51 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4606
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

What factors are involved in deciding when a partisan unit attacks?

According to the manual: "Once a partisan unit is considered combat ready (based on morale, number of partisans and supplies), the partisan unit has a chance to attack"

This does not say anything about how that chance is calculated. As Partisans are subjects of STAVKA, does that mean the chance is decided by the STAVKA Commander Initiative? Anything else?

How does the morale of the partisan unit affect the distance it can attack over? Is it a final liimit (IE morale of 50 means X hexes max) or is it chance based?

How do you people manage your partisans effectively?




Found this from 3 years ago and I am also curious as to what is the chance that a partisan Unit will attack.

In my server game I have 43 partisan units, 14 combat ready, and they performed 1 attack. Anyone know the odds?

Note : in the CR they are all listed as Ready. It is only when use the CR Combat Ready Function do you get a subset.


I was once told that on average a partisan unit needs 6 supply flights before it blows a rail line. Not my test so no idea what were the controls and it is probably out of date with the patches. No idea if the supplies need to be above a certain size, NKVD squads are needed etc.

But I do agree there are ways to shape even the abstracted partisan system - and probably many more would be thought of if it was researched. Partisan strikes can have an impact between catastrophic (e.g. see Stef78 versus Stelteck AAR for Moscow and the Caucasus) to annoying. But given the very few resources the Soviet side has to give it, I do not see any reason for them not to do it?

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/28/2019 3:29:12 PM >

(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 9
RE: Understanding partisans - 7/28/2019 3:21:43 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
I have made a very limited test of my theories on partisans.

According to the manual, the unit gets "Ready" status based on Morale, Supplies and manpower. I take this to mean that if a unit does not have sufficient supplies and ammo it can not be Ready and conduct any attacks (all the partisan units I have looked at in the 1942 scenraio had at least 50% of required supplies).

I then had a litlle fun with finding a formula for calculating if a Partsan unit would be ready or not based on Morale and manpower. Based on my "trial and error" approach and 12 select partisan units I came up with the following:

A Partisan unit is ready if Morale*Manpower/23.000 > 1 (I have not tested if National Morale affects this).

I do not claim this formula is anywhere near correct, and I may well bring home my workstation from work tomorrow and fill all the data into a machine learning algorithm to see if it can come up with something more realistic.



_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 10
RE: Understanding partisans - 7/29/2019 12:00:03 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1514
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: online
I think it just uses the standard Ready/Unready rule, Morale + TOE 90 or greater then it is Ready, < 90 Unready.

But to get them to attack.... might be the 6 supply drops but that seems absurd if the first drop sets supplies to 999%

_____________________________

I want my football club to be pall bearers at my funeral. They can let me down one final time.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 11
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> Understanding partisans Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.133