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New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to Shoulder

 
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New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to Shou... - 8/28/2016 9:23:15 PM   
Gunner98

 

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OK this one might need to be broken in half or even into 3 scenarios but since the game engine can now handle scenarios of this size - can you?

It runs at about 3600 AU and is pulsing at 50-70ms with some decent A2A combat going on.

This is not complete, need to add in a few more Soviet subs & missile boats, not many events yet.

This scenario skips ahead a bit and focuses on the 'Return to Norway' series:

------------

Strike Fleet Atlantic (STRIKFLTLANT) has now completed the first phase of the counter attack in the Atlantic. Fighting on Iceland continues but 2 MEF believes that they will have the island clear within the week. However, a new Soviet offensive in Norway has unhinged NATO plans for a pause between operations. In the past 72 hours’ Soviet forces in Division strength have breached the Trollheimen mountains, the last significant barrier on the approach to Oslo. With Berlin and Copenhagen in Russian hands, and the Norwegian army in tatters the North Atlantic Council (NAC) does not want a third capital city to fall. You, as Commander STRIKFLTLANT have been directed to use all of your available combat power to stop their offensive and to set up the conditions for upcoming amphibious operations in central Norway.

This scenario is playable by NATO:

You have significant force at your disposal, and initiated movement 2 days ago upon receiving direction from SHAPE to conduct this operation. By acting quickly, you hope to catch the Soviet forces off balance. You intend to hold them in the south while you attack from the west. Time however is not your friend, and the Soviets are a lot closer to Oslo than you are!

---------

As always I look forward to your comments and critique. A new and updated background document is also included

Enjoy

B
OK, here is version 1.1

Change Log:
-reconfigured the Carriers, grouped Enterprise & TR in the North. Carl Vinson, Eisenhower and the two Brits in the South. Clemenceau is providing top cover for a couple SAGs near Jan Mayan
-Moved 3 of the CVBGs closer
-Fixed Soviet Air cover
-Added quite a few Veterans and Aces to the Soviet OOB
-Added to and fixed the Soviet subs
-Some ammo fixes
-Some briefing fixes
-Put some cover up in the Kola to prevent peeping
-You now have the additional task of reducing Jan Mayan (not much left there but some target practice for the French)
-a few other surprises

Ver 1.2

-Restricted speed on some of the CAP missions
-Turned off the radars on escorting jammers
-Set up the MiG-31s so they fire and RTB
-Touched up a couple of the ASW missions

NF 13.1 Change notes V1.3
• Added RAF Conigsby
• Added 29 Sqn RAF (Tornado F.3)
• Added 57/493 FS (F-15C)
• Added Ammo to RAF Leuchers
• Beefed up some of the A2A loadouts
• Added 181 FW, 3x ANG F-4 Sqns
• Added 162 FW, 3 x ANG A-7 Sqns
• Added an ANG F-15A sqn to help out the older ANG Wings
• Added an ANG A-10 Sqn
• All NATO is able to ‘Quick Turn around’ this is primarily for the A-10s but some of the Jag, F-5 and F-16 loadouts allow it as well.
• Removed the F-18 Sqn on the non-player side
• Moved Clemenceau and her 3 SAGs back to just NW of Iceland so they have to transit to and establish the Jan Mayan ASW block. Clemenceau cannot survive further into the fray in this scenario so I won’t put her with the main group of CVs
• Swapped in the USS Nimitz BG from the Med, removed the Eisenhower BG which has been in constant action for a month
• Added a US Patriot Bn (6 Btys) to southern Norway
• Changed up the briefing a bit (essential bits in bold)
• Turned some Soviet missions to OECM active
• Pulled a few dozen Soviet Ftrs off of the AAW sweep and put them as escorts, this should slow down the initial surge and add a few more challenges later on
• Modified a bunch of loadouts to make both sides less weather sensitive

V1.4 loaded


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Gunner98 -- 11/3/2016 12:42:45 AM >
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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 8/28/2016 11:01:54 PM   
Excroat3

 

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You weren't lying; this is a gigantic freaking scenario!!! One question: Now that we know a bit more about the battle in mainland Europe, do you think you could add an exclusion zone that depicts the front lines? I think it might add a bit more immersion into the scenario. Anyways, this is some serious A+ stuff here!

(in reply to Gunner98)
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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 8/29/2016 12:04:42 AM   
JPFisher55

 

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Oh Boy, after I get through with Brexit, this is next on my list. I like big scenarios.

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 8/29/2016 2:48:35 AM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

do you think you could add an exclusion zone that depicts the front lines


Excroat, unfortunately Emsoy explained how the game handles exclusion zones and I'm afraid that a large one like that might be too much of a resource hog. I'll think of something though, that's a good idea.

B

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 8/29/2016 8:30:37 PM   
ojms


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Looks great! although are the number of tomahawks what you want? I'm thinking I might just launch off them all to cause some major issues for the soviets before I even look at aircraft strikes.

Also is it worth having a radar and sam site (maybe even a small AAW Strike mission) to cover the northern soviet airbases, I'm thinking of sneaking my U-2 up there to do strike warning detection.

Finally I noticed some F-14B Bombcats loaded with dumb bombs, is this needed or can I change them back to an AA loadout?

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 8/29/2016 11:48:39 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Hay ojms

I'd be interested to see how a TLAM strike works out, but there are probably too many in the fleet. Good point.

I didn't put too much over the north cape because of the size already. I think there is an intercept mission up there though, will check.

You can change any of the loadouts you like, I was giving a distributed load based on the task each carrier was given.

Enjoy

B

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 8/30/2016 2:21:51 AM   
magi

 

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oh geezzz.....thats a lot of stuff.....

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 8/30/2016 10:43:40 AM   
GeorgeCostanza


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Giving this one a shot Gunner! Wish me luck...

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 8/30/2016 10:51:23 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Good luck George

Enjoy

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/1/2016 2:17:46 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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Damn, that's a lot of stuff! Seven carriers of various shades and stripes, plus land-based air and a bunch of surface groups. My micro-manage-to-the-max policy's probably not going to work for this one!


Initial Observations:

There don't seem to be any munitions in the magazines at the Lossiemouth airbase.

The Roosevelt has 8 HARM-Bs loaded on some of its A-6s, but there are no reloads for them in the magazines, which have HARM-Cs instead. (Intentionally?)

A couple of typos in the opening briefing
- "We expect at least one Oscar, two Sierra’s and several Victor III’s, possibly and Akula as well."
- "Unfortunately, he has been reinforcing faster than we have, this operation should change that. The first 24 hours will be an A2A dual"


Looking at the aircraft loadouts for the Norwegian bases, I wonder if the planes on CAP and intercept duty would be loaded with anything less than 'the full AMRAAM'? They're facing the full force of the Soviet swarm in immediate contact, but many of them are carrying light loadouts, or Sparrows instead of AMRAAMs. Since aircraft flight range is not an issue here, but immediate flexible firepower is crucial, I wonder if they would start with a heavier loadout under the circumstances? (Ditto F-14s and Phoenixes when we're expecting Mig-31s, but we've got some sea-room to change those over before heavy contact. <--famous last words)


This is going to be very interesting indeed, assuming I can set aside a week or two to play it!



< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 9/1/2016 2:20:45 AM >

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/1/2016 2:30:31 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Andrew

Lossiemouth is an error, as are the HARM-B's. I should also put some A2A loads at Luchers and even Mildenhall in case of a retreat.

The reason for the loadouts in Norway is ammo conservation. It's now tough getting ships into Oslo. I believe there are some on max load and I'll need to mention that in the brief. I think if you check out the magazines at Flesland for instance you only have ~250-300 AMRAAMs, and you could feasibly burn through those in two loads which would only get you 25% of the way through the scenario. Similar for other bases.

Enjoy

B

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/1/2016 4:30:52 PM   
magi

 

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This...... is the.. " Tolstoy's "Of War and Peace" of Command scenarios...... to be revered and passed from father to son for generations to come....

We.... The Leigons of Command... Salute You...!!!

< Message edited by magi -- 9/1/2016 4:33:37 PM >

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/1/2016 9:10:13 PM   
JPFisher55

 

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I just started this scenario. So far, so great. However, I may have found a few errors. Some of the Soviet subs have no mission and thus do not move. One sub is near the USN forces and is quickly dispatched.
Also, the markers for the Soviet division headquarters are on the Norwegian defense side. Shouldn't they belong to the WP side?

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/1/2016 10:35:29 PM   
Gunner98

 

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your far too kind magi

JPFisher, thanks for catching that, its on my list

B

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/2/2016 12:54:40 AM   
magi

 

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your welcome.....

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/4/2016 12:41:11 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Going in to do some fixes on this one. Two questions:

1) is it too big?
-I could break it in two: The 4 US CVBGs in one and the Land based air & NATO CVs in another - OR
-Break in 3: The US CVBGs in one, the Norway based air in another; and the NATO CVs and MAG in a third.

2) how did the TLAM strike go? There are ~400 in scenario. Are there too many? This is a game balance issue. Missile availability shouldn't be a problem

Historically there were supposed to by ~4000 TLAMs by 92 and only 300 fired in the gulf war so theoretically there can by up to ~6000 by 94 in the Alternate history. It would just take some time to reload the fleet prior to the end game scenarios.

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/4/2016 12:51:56 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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I haven't had a chance to start playing yet, so I can't say from experience whether it's too big or not, but I have to admit I'm interested to try it as a single scenario. It would be nice to have one absolute monster in the campaign!
If it does get broken up, then two pieces seems best - the 4 CVBGs, and everything else down south.
Of course I might change my mind after playing...

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/4/2016 5:26:26 PM   
magi

 

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I will vote with whatever Andrew suggests.......

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/4/2016 6:28:28 PM   
wild_Willie2


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Hi Gunner,

I gave your scenario a go and It is an interesting scenario, but you basically only need the CV TF's, the rest of the vessels are more or less useless as there is basically nothing for them to do.
Most of your big CV's also start to far to the west to make a significant impact on the fighting, while your smaller UK and French CV's lack the strike and escort capacity to take on the USSR forces.
Only the Tomcats (barely) have the range to escort an A6 strike in but the F18 can not even reach the coastline from these starting positions and it takes a day for the northern US CV's to get into proper strike position and by then the battle is virtually over. Also, some ASW heli assets have static waypoints and get left behind once the CV's start moving.

An TLAM strike was only feasible if you could escort it with loads of Tomcats and jammers, else most would just get shot down by the hordes of scrambling USSR fighters without achieving much. But to do this, your CV's need to be closer to the coastline in order to do this effectively...

I would simply mix your TF's around a bit so two US and Brit CV's start in the south and can start making in impact on the battle while the third, fourth US and the single French CV can guard the northern flank for them and reduce the northern part of the battlefield. Also, have your Flankers engage targets more to the south, now the SU24/25 strike AC get turkey shot out of the air by my remaining F16's while the Su27 keep circling to the north...

The premise and size of the scenario are good, it just needs some minor fine tuning.

W.





< Message edited by wild_Willie2 -- 9/4/2016 7:05:12 PM >


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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/5/2016 2:54:34 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Thanks Willie

I'll change up the CV groups and fix some other the other stuff. Hope to get an update tomorrow.

B

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/5/2016 10:13:28 PM   
Gunner98

 

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OK, here is version 1.1

Change Log:
-reconfigured the Carriers, grouped Enterprise & TR in the North. Carl Vinson, Eisenhower and the two Brits in the South. Clemenceau is providing top cover for a couple SAGs near Jan Mayan
-Moved 3 of the CVBGs closer
-Fixed Soviet Air cover
-Added quite a few Veterans and Aces to the Soviet OOB
-Added to and fixed the Soviet subs
-Some ammo fixes
-Some briefing fixes
-Put some cover up in the Kola to prevent peeping
-You now have the additional task of reducing Jan Mayan (not much left there but some target practice for the French)
-a few other surprises

As always, I look forward to your comment and critique.

B

Attachment (1)

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/6/2016 1:01:37 AM   
Excroat3

 

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New release looks good, except for the fact that in the side briefing, you have the scenario named NF 12 - Shoulder to Shoulder

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/6/2016 8:46:06 PM   
Gunner98

 

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An earlier ask was a picture of what was happening in Europe in the NF Campaign timeline about when this scenario starts.

Here is an attempt at Google Slides:






Attachment (1)

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/6/2016 9:46:51 PM   
Excroat3

 

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Looks good! Cool!

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/7/2016 10:54:51 PM   
Kitchens Sink

 

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Holy Crap! The gates of Hell just opened up on me from Central/Northern Norway!

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/8/2016 12:08:28 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Well I guess that bit is working

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/8/2016 1:04:47 AM   
Kitchens Sink

 

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Yeah. Just a side-note...A lot of the first red fighters to come down don't make it far enough to engage or press the attack because they head off to refuel (most with full AA loads still onboard). Maybe look to to set their missions to attack on Military Power instead of Afterburner?

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/8/2016 3:22:33 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Good point - thanks

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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/8/2016 10:03:00 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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I finally have some time to play this mighty scenario, so here goes!

For the most part my plans didn't involve major changes to the opening layout. I'm going to take half an hour for ELINT assets to spread out and get a better read on the situation, before making heavy fighter sweeps in the north. Once I've taken a chunk out of the enemy fighter cover I'll try a coordinated TLAM strike to reduce the coastal airbases in the middle and north of the theatre. I suspect I'll be on the defensive in the south, and I'll try and grind down the enemy before raiding their southern airbases. Low cloud is going to complicate any LGB attacks, which means buddy lasing from well within the medium air defence envelope, which will definitely be dangerous. I'm moving TG Virginia due east, in a somewhat risky move, to bring them inshore as quickly as possible, in the hope that I can use their long-range SAMs to interfere with enemy air activity in that region. Other than that, no major changes.

So the battle commences, and it immediately becomes clear that the Russians aren't going to sit around politely while I take half an hour for sensor readings. Within minutes I've got an SSN close aboard TG20, and another near the Ike. ASW helicopters sink the two intruders, but it's very likely that the Russians have gotten a good read on at least one of my carriers. It only takes a few minutes before I'm getting reports of large numbers of attack aircraft launching and forming up over northern Norway, confirming my suspicions. Things are going to get warm at TG 20, and I start scrambling fighters to get ready to greet the attackers.

Down south the situation isn't any better, as swarms of Russian aircraft start pushing into southern Norway. My hasty response isn't well coordinated, and I fumble to bring in interceptors from various bases as the threat grows and grows. Before long I'm trying to fend off Mig-31s, and somehow get my short-ranged F-16's into the fight without losing them all. At first it seems like the Mig-31s are on a high-speed southern dash to nowhere, before I realize they're pointing right at my NATO AWACS. Flee AWACS, flee! Intervening fighters manage to get those Mig-31s, and I manage to destroy an incoming Mig-29 raid, after which I try to pull back and disengage while dealing with the remaining Su-27s and Mig-31s. The enemy is far enough south that they're in SAM range now, so I turn on the radars and start using long range Nike shots to try and force them to turn and break lock. I haven't hit anything that way, but I think the disruption is proving useful.

As all this is happening I realize that I've made a mistake about the northern strike. It's not headed for TG 20. It's headed south into Norway, and I haven't got a lot in position to intercept it. My Norwegian fighter defences are already seriously depleted, and I probably won't have time to re-arm (even on quick turnaround) before the attack arrives. My CVGNs are too far away for newly launched fighters to get there in time to intercept. I'm bringing in my Marine F-18s (who might make it in time) and the UK cap (who will probably have to refuel in Norway), and a few CAP F-14s that may be close enough to interfere. I suspect I'll be launching Norwegian-based aircraft with attack loadouts just to use their defensive missiles and keep them from being caught on the ground. (Will those crafty Russians be making SRBM attacks in coordination with the arrival of the Su-24s? Hmmm... Maybe I should launch sooner?)

About this time another SSN contact appears, this one close by TG De Ruyter - as if I don't have enough to do already. My helicopters are closing in, but they're all dipping sonar only, with no MAD, which means their prosecution rate is slooow. Hopefully they'll localize before the SSN can attack. Worse, if the SSN has radioed to the Oscar that's out there somewhere, then TG De Ruyter may be in deep trouble before long.

With the northern attack headed south, I have a large number of fighters in the air east of TG 20 with nothing to do. Since the Russians are sending most of an Su-27 squadron out to meet them, I decide to engage them rather than hang around uselessly. That exchange goes well, but as I start wrapping it up I get urgent ESM reports of Mig-31 radars over northern Norway, Not one or two of them, but 12 of them. A full squadron! With that much power something major's going on. This has to be the heavy aviation anti-carrier raid, and I've just used up most of my airborne Phoenixes! Perfect timing...



Assorted minor items:

It looks like most of the Medium ASW missions are not set to the 1/3 rule. Similarly the TG20 North Flank Barcap is not set to the 1/3 rule. I'm not sure if this is deliberately done to make a surge at the start?
The reference points for many of the close ASW missions are relative fixed, instead of relative rotating.
When the Fencer raid starts forming up the support Fencers have their radars on, which gives a nice positive ID and raid warning to NATO. Perhaps they would be more discreet with radars off?
I was wondering why the CF-18s are on an allied side, instead of under player control? The ones on intercept went charging up into the furball and got stomped by long range missile shots without accomplishing much.
I haven't looked at the Mig-31 WRA yet, but are they set to RTB upon use of their long-range missiles, or are they hanging around to use their short range missiles? I've managed to kill a number of them at medium ranges, when I suspect they might have been able to safely disengage and RTB earlier.

(in reply to Gunner98)
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RE: New BIG scenario for testing - NF 13.1 Shoulder to ... - 9/9/2016 2:10:48 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Thanks for the excellent report Andrew. I'll address a couple points:

-I'll check the 1/3 rule bits, some are set to 1 or 2 AC instead but I cannot recall which
-the close Ref Pts are fixed as it they are a fixed sector around the heavies, don't know if it makes that much difference.
-I'll fixe those Fencer radars, they're in escort and I keep forgetting to check that.
-The Mig-31s might need a tweak.

The F-18 are on an allied side as a compromise. I did not want to get into scenario creep and involve the soviets in Denmark. But I did want the player to understand that the threat was there. The intercept mission was meant to be a Self Defence compromise. I guess its not working out too well, so I'll have to re-think.

I look forward to your follow on. Quite glad the timing is working out right, its tricky to judge with the distances involved.

B

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