Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Loyang - auto converted to allied control?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Loyang - auto converted to allied control? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/27/2016 12:13:24 PM   
mussey


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline
I've never seen this before. Playing newest Beta patch, and new Ironman Beta. There is one Japanese XX in possession of Loyang, and I have about 5 Chinese XXX's. The Chinese never attacked, just continual bombardment, and I noticed on 9/1/1942 that the possession of the base flipped to the allies. The jap unit was not surrounded (I allowed it to control a vacated Chengchow to the SE), so it had a supply line.

Anyone seen this before?

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"

Post #: 1
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/27/2016 2:01:54 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4153
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline
I have seen only empty bases revert to the other side's possession.

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 2
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/27/2016 3:53:16 PM   
btd64


Posts: 7410
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in OHIO
Status: offline
I believe if one side has a major numerical advantage, the major side can get the base. Also, I have seen one side lose the base in ground combat, On an island mostly, but remain in in the hex. Artillery combat is combat to the game....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

I don't like paying for the same real estate twice..Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 3
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/27/2016 4:30:28 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15657
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

I believe if one side has a major numerical advantage, the major side can get the base. Also, I have seen one side lose the base in ground combat, On an island mostly, but remain in in the hex. Artillery combat is combat to the game....GP

Can't agree with your last statement GP, at least not for the stock game. After artillery bombardment only there is no crossed sword icon in the hex to indicate combat occurred, and I have never seen ownership of a base flip if there were still enemy troops in the hex and no combat occurred.

It can flip if the enemy unit is wiped out by bombardments (thus no longer present) or it retreats from the hex because it has gotten too weak for the opposition it is facing (should only happen with a very low aggression LCU commander - not uncommon in BFs and Eng. units).

Because of the disparity in forces it is also possible that one of the Chinese LCU commanders with high aggression took the initiative and attacked without orders, causing the surprise base flip.


_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to btd64)
Post #: 4
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/27/2016 4:38:09 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14502
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey

I've never seen this before. Playing newest Beta patch, and new Ironman Beta. There is one Japanese XX in possession of Loyang, and I have about 5 Chinese XXX's. The Chinese never attacked, just continual bombardment, and I noticed on 9/1/1942 that the possession of the base flipped to the allies. The jap unit was not surrounded (I allowed it to control a vacated Chengchow to the SE), so it had a supply line.

Anyone seen this before?


Can you give us a Tracker report on that?

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 5
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/27/2016 4:46:10 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14502
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
Another possibility is that the IJA unit attacked and was reversed off the base but remained in the hex. Besides the bombardment there are the partisans, and he may not have had enough of a garrison. It wouldn't bother me if this is part of the engine on purpose. Supply could also be a factor even if they aren't cut off.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 6
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/27/2016 7:02:54 PM   
mussey


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey

I've never seen this before. Playing newest Beta patch, and new Ironman Beta. There is one Japanese XX in possession of Loyang, and I have about 5 Chinese XXX's. The Chinese never attacked, just continual bombardment, and I noticed on 9/1/1942 that the possession of the base flipped to the allies. The jap unit was not surrounded (I allowed it to control a vacated Chengchow to the SE), so it had a supply line.

Anyone seen this before?


Can you give us a Tracker report on that?


Sorry, I'm still the JV team on the Tracker thingy. () I wish I was paying more attention to this theatre I didn't notice it until a Fortification 1 notice popped up, then after a few turns and a night's sleep later it dawned on me that something is unusual about this situation, better get another point of view. Well, here's what it looks like several weeks later...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 7
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/27/2016 7:08:04 PM   
mussey


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Another possibility is that the IJA unit attacked and was reversed off the base but remained in the hex. Besides the bombardment there are the partisans, and he may not have had enough of a garrison. It wouldn't bother me if this is part of the engine on purpose. Supply could also be a factor even if they aren't cut off.

Quite right. A retreat from the base but not from the hex itself. Maybe they went out for dinner, and when they came back, all their belongings were on the treelawn...

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 8
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/27/2016 10:30:11 PM   
btd64


Posts: 7410
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in OHIO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

I believe if one side has a major numerical advantage, the major side can get the base. Also, I have seen one side lose the base in ground combat, On an island mostly, but remain in in the hex. Artillery combat is combat to the game....GP

Can't agree with your last statement GP, at least not for the stock game. After artillery bombardment only there is no crossed sword icon in the hex to indicate combat occurred, and I have never seen ownership of a base flip if there were still enemy troops in the hex and no combat occurred.

It can flip if the enemy unit is wiped out by bombardments (thus no longer present) or it retreats from the hex because it has gotten too weak for the opposition it is facing (should only happen with a very low aggression LCU commander - not uncommon in BFs and Eng. units).

Because of the disparity in forces it is also possible that one of the Chinese LCU commanders with high aggression took the initiative and attacked without orders, causing the surprise base flip.



My last statement is based on the fact that I have seen a heavy art bombardment destroy enough devices to cause the smaller unit to lose the base. Last time was about 2 to 3 years ago....GP

_____________________________

Intel i7 4.3GHz 10th Gen,16GB Ram,Nvidia GeForce MX330

AKA General Patton

WPO,WITP,WITPAE-Mod Designer/Tester
DWU-Beta Tester
TOAW4-Alpha/Beta Tester

I don't like paying for the same real estate twice..Gen. George S. Patton

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 9
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/28/2016 7:51:10 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15657
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

I believe if one side has a major numerical advantage, the major side can get the base. Also, I have seen one side lose the base in ground combat, On an island mostly, but remain in in the hex. Artillery combat is combat to the game....GP

Can't agree with your last statement GP, at least not for the stock game. After artillery bombardment only there is no crossed sword icon in the hex to indicate combat occurred, and I have never seen ownership of a base flip if there were still enemy troops in the hex and no combat occurred.

It can flip if the enemy unit is wiped out by bombardments (thus no longer present) or it retreats from the hex because it has gotten too weak for the opposition it is facing (should only happen with a very low aggression LCU commander - not uncommon in BFs and Eng. units).

Because of the disparity in forces it is also possible that one of the Chinese LCU commanders with high aggression took the initiative and attacked without orders, causing the surprise base flip.



My last statement is based on the fact that I have seen a heavy art bombardment destroy enough devices to cause the smaller unit to lose the base. Last time was about 2 to 3 years ago....GP

It always amazes me that after years of playing and reading AARs I still learn of quirks in this awesome game! I'll look for that one!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to btd64)
Post #: 10
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/28/2016 3:31:24 PM   
mussey


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline
Well another screen shot, several game weeks after the fact. The Jap XX is not a runt, and the Chinese artillery isn't strong. And yet if weren't bombardment damage (8 months worth) what else would have caused it?





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 11
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/28/2016 3:45:28 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4153
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline
OK, let's say Loyang has the garrison requirement of 30 AV. You have been bombarding the Japanese 35th Division for some time, inflicting heavy disablements on the Japs and dropping their strength to under 30 AV.

Can the base revert to the Chinese then? It seems so, but I have never seen anything like that. I have always thought you need to evict the garrison by a direct attack.

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 12
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/28/2016 9:12:53 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15657
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey

I've never seen this before. Playing newest Beta patch, and new Ironman Beta. There is one Japanese XX in possession of Loyang, and I have about 5 Chinese XXX's. The Chinese never attacked, just continual bombardment, and I noticed on 9/1/1942 that the possession of the base flipped to the allies. The jap unit was not surrounded (I allowed it to control a vacated Chengchow to the SE), so it had a supply line.

Anyone seen this before?


Can you give us a Tracker report on that?


Sorry, I'm still the JV team on the Tracker thingy. () I wish I was paying more attention to this theatre I didn't notice it until a Fortification 1 notice popped up, then after a few turns and a night's sleep later it dawned on me that something is unusual about this situation, better get another point of view. Well, here's what it looks like several weeks later...






There is a Japanese unit or more in the hex NW of Kaifeng - perhaps your IJA Division just marched out of Loyang and you did not notice? Did you have control of all the hex sides?

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 13
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/28/2016 9:43:36 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14502
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
What is that red marker the blue arrow is pointing to? I don't remember seeing that before.




Never mind, it's an exclam mark.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 8/28/2016 9:45:17 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 14
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/28/2016 9:50:25 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14502
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
Believe that means insufficient base supply, which would be normal when the base changes hands.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 15
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/28/2016 10:30:16 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10389
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
The red exclamation mark can mean critically low supply or garrison requirements not met. I don't believe a base should be able to change hands without a fight if there is any kind of enemy unit there.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 16
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/28/2016 11:59:44 PM   
mussey


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey

I've never seen this before. Playing newest Beta patch, and new Ironman Beta. There is one Japanese XX in possession of Loyang, and I have about 5 Chinese XXX's. The Chinese never attacked, just continual bombardment, and I noticed on 9/1/1942 that the possession of the base flipped to the allies. The jap unit was not surrounded (I allowed it to control a vacated Chengchow to the SE), so it had a supply line.

Anyone seen this before?


Can you give us a Tracker report on that?


Sorry, I'm still the JV team on the Tracker thingy. () I wish I was paying more attention to this theatre I didn't notice it until a Fortification 1 notice popped up, then after a few turns and a night's sleep later it dawned on me that something is unusual about this situation, better get another point of view. Well, here's what it looks like several weeks later...






There is a Japanese unit or more in the hex NW of Kaifeng - perhaps your IJA Division just marched out of Loyang and you did not notice? Did you have control of all the hex sides?

No, that 35th Division took Loyang in December 1941 and never left. When playing Ironman in China, I don't surround Japanese advances, but allow supply lines. So I left Chengchow (sp) to the Japanese and advanced to the hex NW of Kaifeng, until Ironman drove my units out. The Japanese have been there ever since. So nothing changed. I never assaulted any Japanese position choosing to bombard instead.

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 17
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/29/2016 12:11:16 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15657
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
I was suggesting that maybe the division in Loyang left to join the others in that hex NW of Kaifeng - unless you owned the exit hexside between the two.
You would have to bomb the units in that hex to find out if the missing division is there.

I am strongly influenced by your testimony that the division was not a runt, on the verge of extinction, so it had to go somewhere or there should have been a massive combat to wipe it out.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 18
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/29/2016 7:19:20 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2421
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey
I didn't notice it until a Fortification 1 notice popped up...

When an empty base changes hands peacefully via standard game routine fortifications are not destroyed. So whatever shenanigans gave base ownership to Chinese it is not standard empty (or somehow presumed as empty) base capture.

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 19
RE: Loyang - auto converted to allied control? - 8/29/2016 3:46:21 PM   
mussey


Posts: 655
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I was suggesting that maybe the division in Loyang left to join the others in that hex NW of Kaifeng - unless you owned the exit hexside between the two.
You would have to bomb the units in that hex to find out if the missing division is there.

I am strongly influenced by your testimony that the division was not a runt, on the verge of extinction, so it had to go somewhere or there should have been a massive combat to wipe it out.

I highly doubt the Japanese 35th xx left the base only to return a day later. Would be magical. Remember, I noticed the flip after my Chinese completed fort level 1 which would occur in a day. The 35 xx would have have left and returned in that one day. This is one of those mysteries like many in AE that I just take as is and move on, that the designer gods know what their doing..



_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 20
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Loyang - auto converted to allied control? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.160