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RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 5/15/2017 1:43:32 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Sally vs Helen - The second Helen (IIa) gets armor in 8/42. The third Helen IIb in 8/43 gets an increase in range 11/13 to be one greater than the Sally. The main reason I go with the Helen is the armor...survivability!


And the first Helen gets MAD in 11/44.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 151
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 5/15/2017 3:37:03 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing
PDU ON, SC 1
At start of campaign, I produce Ki57 I Topsy using Ha-5 engine pool...
When engine pool is exhausted, I don t upgrade to Ki 57 II Topsy, Ha-31 engine, as it is very similar to Ki-57 I Topsy, keeping Ha-31 production low only for Ki-46 II Dinah

There are enough engines in the pool to build out your DinahII's and Dinah III changes engines in 12/42.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing
So, early march 42, having most of my IJA transport squadrons equipped with Topsy and 30+ in reserve, I switch production to Ki-32 Mary , using Early Kawasaki engine with 80+ in pool...

Ki-32 Mary is much better than Ki-51 Sonia and can be also used for ASW despite short legs, but with its 250 kgs bomb, it can be a sub killer if something came close enough...

Skip building IJA light bombers completely and upgrade them to Ki-45's when those become available. Ki-45's are superior in range, bomb load, survivability (armor and durability), speed, etc. to all IJA light bombers. Only the Ki-48 has an advantage over it (range). It can also double as a heavy CAP fighter with appropriate pilots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing
I resume IJA transport production with Ki-49 K Helen mid 43 which has much greater capacity than Topsy.

Because of the way that transport aircraft are handled, the capacity is the same. Transport aircraft transport max load / 2000. Fractions are ignored and only the whole number is used. There is also a minimum moved of 1 supply.

Ki-49-II KAI max load = 3500/2000 = 1.75, moves 1 supply.
Ki-54c max load = 1058/2000 = ~0.5 = minimum of 1.

Both will deliver 1 supply per mission.

See michaelm's post at http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2483507

Your only concern with IJA transports are

1) How far can you send it? (Note: 50% of ferry range is max range for base to base supply delivery)
2) How many and what engines does it use? (production management)
3) Is is significantly more durable / ammored? (reduced operational losses)



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Post #: 152
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 5/15/2017 3:38:03 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Sally vs Helen - The second Helen (IIa) gets armor in 8/42. The third Helen IIb in 8/43 gets an increase in range 11/13 to be one greater than the Sally. The main reason I go with the Helen is the armor...survivability!


And the first Helen gets MAD in 11/44.

Since we all know there is no way Japan can get EVEN in late 44, all there is left is to be MAD.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 153
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/15/2017 11:28:25 AM   
ny59giants


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Selfish bump.... I'm in late '42 and need to double check some things.

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Post #: 154
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/15/2017 11:56:15 AM   
ny59giants


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I'm now in mid-Oct '42 vs Gen Patton in latest version of BTS Lite. John 3rd and I had the A6 Zero have the M2 go to M5 and beyond for CVs. There was a land based model (M3 and M4). However, I've advanced the George to start production in Nov '42. So in the next version, we will eliminate the land based Zero since George comes in Fall '42. Thus, in my current version, I have a few factories no longer producing and need to be changed over. The question is to what?? Due to KB being 4-0 in battles to date (3 American CVs sunk off New Caledonia), I "may" see late '45. Do I need to focus R&D on 45/46 models?? Here is what I currently have.....

A7M3 Sam x1 due 9/45
C6N1-S Myrt x1 due 5/45
J6M1 x1 due 9/45
J7W1 x5 due 12/45
Ki-102a Randy x1 due 2/45
Ki-102c Randy x1 due 9/45
Ki-115a Tsurugi x2 due 6/45
Ki-83 x2 due 9/45
Ki-84b Frank x1 due 3/45
Ki-84r Frank x1 due 12/45
Ki-94-II x2 due 2/46
Kikka x1 due 1/46
Toka x2 due 12/45

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 155
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/15/2017 1:33:26 PM   
PaxMondo


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OK, not familiar with this mod, but in stock (you'll have to translate):

If you think you will still have CV's, then A7M is a must. A7M can hold up against F6F. short legs though.

Frank r is a must. It is your mainstay for the IJA.

Then you have some choices to make:

IJN: J7W does work, but short legs. pretty effective though if you can get it in numbers.

IJA: Ki-83 is a nice plane, good range, decent armament. 2E though. Ki-94 is also good, armament isn't great, but speed is good and 1E. Trade-off. I generally like 2 for 1 in terms of cost, but that's me.

Ki-201 is a unique choice: if you go after it, you have to go BIG. High SR means it takes +6 weeks for groups to convert, so you have to really plan this one out. BUT, once in play if in numbers, it will dominate the day skies. You've got to have numbers though (when you can put ~500 of these into the air over a target, you won't believe the impact they have, they simply decimate attacks), and you cannot move these groups much. I.E. you really have to be experienced working with high SR planes. One oops and you can have the entire group sitting for 2 months or more.

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 156
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/15/2017 1:42:13 PM   
PaxMondo


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Randy 102C is you NF. period. You cannot have enough of them, especially if you are effective in stopping the allied daylight bombing, he will quickly revert to night bombing. You will want every group that you can find to convert to NF converted and then flying the 102C ...

The IJN NF air groups are not nearly as effective as they don't have nearly as good a plane. None of them are armored, they all take high losses, most are too slow to catch B29's. I generally choose between either the C6N (1E, fastest but frail) or the S1A1 (heavy arm, durable, but 2E and just barely faster than B29) with the C6N usually winning out for me. The lower SR and lower cost lets me replace losses easier and shift the units around faster.

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 157
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/15/2017 1:53:42 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I'm now in mid-Oct '42 vs Gen Patton in latest version of BTS Lite. John 3rd and I had the A6 Zero have the M2 go to M5 and beyond for CVs. There was a land based model (M3 and M4). However, I've advanced the George to start production in Nov '42. So in the next version, we will eliminate the land based Zero since George comes in Fall '42. Thus, in my current version, I have a few factories no longer producing and need to be changed over. The question is to what?? Due to KB being 4-0 in battles to date (3 American CVs sunk off New Caledonia), I "may" see late '45. Do I need to focus R&D on 45/46 models?? Here is what I currently have.....

A7M3 Sam x1 due 9/45
C6N1-S Myrt x1 due 5/45
J6M1 x1 due 9/45
J7W1 x5 due 12/45
Ki-102a Randy x1 due 2/45
Ki-102c Randy x1 due 9/45
Ki-115a Tsurugi x2 due 6/45
Ki-83 x2 due 9/45
Ki-84b Frank x1 due 3/45
Ki-84r Frank x1 due 12/45
Ki-94-II x2 due 2/46
Kikka x1 due 1/46
Toka x2 due 12/45


You have more Shinden factories than Franks? You need more Franks.

Kikka in particular does not seem worthwhile to me - it's either a fast bomber with 1 800kg bomb (and isn't a dive bomber) or an expensive kamikaze (2 engines = 4x the cost). Toka also doesn't seem useful to me. But if you want them, go for it.

Keep in mind that as some of your new models come online, you'll have little or no use for older models like the Oscar or even Tojo. With 2x Ki-83 factories, you might get that in late 1944. I'd try for sooner if you can. I'd also try for sooner on the A7M2 Sam - whichever your CV fighter is.

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Post #: 158
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/15/2017 2:09:35 PM   
ny59giants


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I only listed models with due dates in 45/46. I have many factories on Sam and Frank, but the first versions of them. I'm asking if I need more for any of these late models I've listed.

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Post #: 159
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/15/2017 4:27:47 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I only listed models with due dates in 45/46. I have many factories on Sam and Frank, but the first versions of them. I'm asking if I need more for any of these late models I've listed.


If you're currently researching Frank-a, why do you have a Frank-r factory? That's where I got confused.

If you're asking "I've got extra factories, or could. Where should I put them?"... then from your list, I'd pick the Ki-83 first as you already have 5 Shinden factories. Or the Ki-94, but it uses a unique engine vs. the Ki-83 not using a unique engine.

If it's only 2 factories, I'd go +1 Ki-83 and +1 Ki-102c. If it's 3 factories, I'd go +1 Ki-83 and +2 Ki-102c. If it's 4 or more, I'd go with +2 to each of those and then maybe the next one on my list would be the Ki-94.

I'm not familiar with the J6M1. Is it a super-Jack?

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Post #: 160
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/15/2017 6:28:25 PM   
PaxMondo


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For this mod, I have no idea what model uses what engine. In stock, you are correct, the Ki94 uses Ha-44 and the Ki83 use Ha43 (same as A7M).

And I agree, not sure of his RnD, but then I do not know the upgrade paths of this mod ...

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 161
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/15/2017 6:41:03 PM   
Kitakami


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Had not read this thread. Great reading. Thanks to all that have contributed. It will come in handy for my next game of BtS, when the next version comes out.

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 162
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/21/2017 9:04:27 AM   
Alpha77

 

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Seems Jean is a must have plane, they are my most hard hitting planes vs. smaller ships it seems :)

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Post #: 163
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/21/2017 1:22:18 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Seems Jean is a must have plane, they are my most hard hitting planes vs. smaller ships it seems :)

Try the Susie. I made a few out of curiosity. They have a stunning hit rate.

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Post #: 164
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/21/2017 1:25:10 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I'm building--for late-war fighters--ALL of the A7 Sam for IJN and working to get to the Frank-r for the army. We're having this conversation in my AAR presently.

On the subject of army bombers I am about to get (March 44) the Peggy with Torp. Cannot wait! My army bombers groups are in good shape so I WANT to have this plane.




Trouble s it takes 4 months to train the pilots!


..and 1 minute to be killed by enemy CAP.

I don t believe that it worth the investment as training will be too long for almost no success.
I let the anti shipping role to IJN with its own late war torpedo bombers (P1Y2 Frances)

For IJA late war anti shipping bomber, I would invest R&D on the fast Ki-115a Tsurugi and its 800kg bomb instead of Ki-67 T Peggy, which will make also a great kamikaze plane ;)




The navy is however short on pilots and your Army bombers have not much to bomb anyway.
You can also pre-train them from the start of the game if you want. You only need 6-8 weeks to get their torpedo skill to acceptable level when you have the planes available.
They work nicely together with Lilys

< Message edited by Gräfin Zeppelin -- 8/21/2017 1:26:02 PM >


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Post #: 165
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 12/8/2018 2:30:50 PM   
ny59giants


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Shameless bump so I can find it easier.

Was on page 34....

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Post #: 166
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 12/8/2018 2:56:13 PM   
Anachro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I'm building--for late-war fighters--ALL of the A7 Sam for IJN and working to get to the Frank-r for the army. We're having this conversation in my AAR presently.


I assume it will be the Jack instead of the A7 this time?

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 167
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 12/8/2018 3:54:58 PM   
John 3rd


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Actually, I am researching Jack AND George to see which does better. Have also self-imposed a HR that limits that big BEAST (George) to CVs. Have got to put something on the CVLs so there is Jack.

We also looking at MISTER SAM!

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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Post #: 168
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/21/2019 2:10:52 PM   
Falken


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Hi, not only to give this great thread a bump, but what is the opinion on the IJN Float Plane Pete vs Jake. I see a lot of comments on replacing the Pete with the E13s, but doesn't the Pete have better "gun" values?

I'm at that stage in my PBEM game where I need to decide where to focus, and not sure if I should get rid of the Pete (outside of training groups of course)...

< Message edited by Falken -- 7/21/2019 2:11:35 PM >

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Post #: 169
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/21/2019 4:25:26 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Falken

Hi, not only to give this great thread a bump, but what is the opinion on the IJN Float Plane Pete vs Jake. I see a lot of comments on replacing the Pete with the E13s, but doesn't the Pete have better "gun" values?

I'm at that stage in my PBEM game where I need to decide where to focus, and not sure if I should get rid of the Pete (outside of training groups of course)...


If you're thinking about a float plane that could double as either a NavSearch platform or a fighter in a pinch, I'd opt for the Rufe early war or the Rex mid-war. The Pete is obsolete on December 7, 1941 and should be replaced with a more capable airframe as soon as practical.

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Post #: 170
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/21/2019 6:39:46 PM   
durnedwolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Falken

Hi, not only to give this great thread a bump, but what is the opinion on the IJN Float Plane Pete vs Jake. I see a lot of comments on replacing the Pete with the E13s, but doesn't the Pete have better "gun" values?

I'm at that stage in my PBEM game where I need to decide where to focus, and not sure if I should get rid of the Pete (outside of training groups of course)...


I tend to go for the range and replace the Pete with the Jake. Mostly this is for SCTFs. I set the range to 5 which is the max range I can use and still cover 360 degrees. The more times I can bump up the detection level, the better my opportunity to get a successful attack. With multiple FP-equipped ships in a SCTF I'll have FPs flying Naval Search for both the day and night operations.


_____________________________


DW

I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer

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Post #: 171
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/21/2019 8:12:46 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Actually, I am researching Jack AND George to see which does better. Have also self-imposed a HR that limits that big BEAST (George) to CVs. Have got to put something on the CVLs so there is Jack.

We also looking at MISTER SAM!


I haven't read all of this thread, and I know nothing of a lot of the mods, is there a mod where Georges and Jacks are carrier capable or is this a joke?

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 172
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/21/2019 8:15:53 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14546
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Falken

Hi, not only to give this great thread a bump, but what is the opinion on the IJN Float Plane Pete vs Jake. I see a lot of comments on replacing the Pete with the E13s, but doesn't the Pete have better "gun" values?

I'm at that stage in my PBEM game where I need to decide where to focus, and not sure if I should get rid of the Pete (outside of training groups of course)...


I'm planning on using Pete's as kamikazes, so I take them off of ships and replace with Jakes. The problem with Jakes is it's really easy if you leave their search range at maximum to run into enemy CAP nests and lose a bunch of them.

(in reply to Falken)
Post #: 173
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/21/2019 8:16:59 PM   
geofflambert


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From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Falken

Hi, not only to give this great thread a bump, but what is the opinion on the IJN Float Plane Pete vs Jake. I see a lot of comments on replacing the Pete with the E13s, but doesn't the Pete have better "gun" values?

I'm at that stage in my PBEM game where I need to decide where to focus, and not sure if I should get rid of the Pete (outside of training groups of course)...


If you're thinking about a float plane that could double as either a NavSearch platform or a fighter in a pinch, I'd opt for the Rufe early war or the Rex mid-war. The Pete is obsolete on December 7, 1941 and should be replaced with a more capable airframe as soon as practical.


Rufes and Rexes can also do some ASW.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 174
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/21/2019 8:22:44 PM   
geofflambert


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From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Falken

Hi, not only to give this great thread a bump, but what is the opinion on the IJN Float Plane Pete vs Jake. I see a lot of comments on replacing the Pete with the E13s, but doesn't the Pete have better "gun" values?

I'm at that stage in my PBEM game where I need to decide where to focus, and not sure if I should get rid of the Pete (outside of training groups of course)...


I tend to go for the range and replace the Pete with the Jake. Mostly this is for SCTFs. I set the range to 5 which is the max range I can use and still cover 360 degrees. The more times I can bump up the detection level, the better my opportunity to get a successful attack. With multiple FP-equipped ships in a SCTF I'll have FPs flying Naval Search for both the day and night operations.



This is all true as far as it goes but you can't count on FPs for carrier battles, so how you manage them in that regard is really moot. It might give you a boost, or they might not show up at all.

(in reply to durnedwolf)
Post #: 175
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/21/2019 10:53:27 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I'm planning on using Pete's as kamikazes, so I take them off of ships and replace with Jakes. The problem with Jakes is it's really easy if you leave their search range at maximum to run into enemy CAP nests and lose a bunch of them.

You can always keep them Jakes at short range if you are forgetful about the CAP nests. And they still retain their additional capabilities. So still better than anything else FP

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 176
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/22/2019 12:36:28 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 25288
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Actually, I am researching Jack AND George to see which does better. Have also self-imposed a HR that limits that big BEAST (George) to CVs. Have got to put something on the CVLs so there is Jack.

We also looking at MISTER SAM!


I haven't read all of this thread, and I know nothing of a lot of the mods, is there a mod where Georges and Jacks are carrier capable or is this a joke?


I believe that the George is CV capable (but not CVE/CVL capable) in some of John III's mods.

_____________________________


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Post #: 177
RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 7/22/2019 5:55:28 AM   
geofflambert


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That's John three - DT

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 178
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