MUST HAVE Japanese planes

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

MUST HAVE Japanese planes

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> MUST HAVE Japanese planes

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/24/2016 11:49:57 AM

ny59giants

Posts: 9776
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online

After years away and a short attempt to play Japan with RHS (Feb 42), I'm going to be playing Gen Patton with the latest version of Between The Storms Lite (BTS Lite). The question to my fellow Japanese economic ministers, is what planes MUST you build??

This mod is based on DBB air stats and doesn't have the Jack. So how many planes of a particular model, how many factories, and what models?? Details guys!

_____________________________

Post #: 1

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/24/2016 2:18:28 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9583
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

PDU ON or OFF. Makes all the difference in the world.

When do you plan to relinquish initiative? That determines when you switch from offensive to defensive production.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 2

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/24/2016 2:59:56 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9776
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online

quote:

PDU ON or OFF. Makes all the difference in the world.

When do you plan to relinquish initiative? That determines when you switch from offensive to defensive production.

PDU is ON.

Probably in mid to late '43 as this mod increases naval strength for Japan. We have increased PP from 60 to 100 with this version, so Allies will get more toys bought out. These mods have JuanG's aircraft purchase system, so the Allies can buy more airframes which I expect Gen Patton to do.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 8/24/2016 3:00:56 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 3

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/24/2016 3:04:44 PM

John 3rd

Posts: 16936
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline

Ahem...those modern airframes that are available from Juan's Purchase System will TRASH your Oscars. You did this to me and effect was horrific.

_____________________________

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 4

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/24/2016 4:15:04 PM

Revthought

Posts: 522
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: San Diego (Lives in Indianapolis)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

After years away and a short attempt to play Japan with RHS (Feb 42), I'm going to be playing Gen Patton with the latest version of Between The Storms Lite (BTS Lite). The question to my fellow Japanese economic ministers, is what planes MUST you build?? This mod is based on DBB air stats and doesn't have the Jack. So how many planes of a particular model, how many factories, and what models?? Details guys!

quote:

to be playing Gen Patton with the latest version of Between The Storms Lite (BTS Lite)

Turn off your research completely, and shut down production on anything but Anns.

_____________________________

Playing at war is a far better vocation than making people fight in them.

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 5

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/24/2016 5:00:24 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3018
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

I'll PM you my '44 production if you'd like. It's handling up well to an air war that would make some players cry.

IJA

Frank - Essential as a sweep/high CAP. Build lots.
Oscar/Tony - If you want to simply production, pick one for your low CAP and escort. Each have their own merits. Moderate production.
Tojo - Must have mid-war fighter. Does a decent job as second line CAP in the late game. Moderate production.
Peggy (T) - You want the IJA to have torps on the medium bombers, just in case. Build bucket loads.

KAI Dinah - Best of the IJA night fighters.

IJN

Sam - The Zero line is a dead end after the 5b/c. Push for the Sam ASAP.
George - No Jack, so you'll need this one. And in great numbers.

Frances - Best of the 2E bombers. Build lots, depending on if you want to keep the Nell and Betty in service.

Judy - Best of the dive bombers. Build lots.

Grace - Best of the torpedo bombers and a decent dive bomber too. Build lots.

Irving Sa - Night fighter with radar. Moderate production

(in reply to Revthought)

Post #: 6

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/24/2016 9:30:35 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9158
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

I'mma disagree with a lot of people here. Your mainstay planes are underlined below. Planes with *'s make perfectly acceptable kamikazes, too.

IJA
Avoid these:
Oscar - ditch it ASAP. It sucks. Don't be suckered in by the Oscar-IV with its cannons. It still sucks.
Ki-93
Ki-61 all varieties

Tojo - use this to replace the Oscar, until the Ki-100-I is available. Then you can ditch the Tojo, too. Blah blah climb rate, to which I say blah blah do you want machine guns or cannons?

Tony* - get the Ki-100-I and stay there. The -II is more or less the same, but the -I seems more useful.

Frank* - duh.

Ki-45 KAIa Nick - this will be your main anti-4E weapon until you get the Ki-100. It remains useful until at least mid-44.
Ki-45 KAIc Nick - has a nice big gun. It seems OK, but might not really be an upgrade from the Nick-a.
Ki-45 KAId Nick - I think this is your best IJAAF night fighter until the Ki-102c Randy.

Ki-102a Randy - very nice plane, if you can get it.

Ki-83 - don't have mine yet, but seems good.

Ki-94-II - the "Frank II"? Looks very nice, if you can get it.

Ki-201 - seems nice, if you can get it. SR5 though.

Ki-48-IIb and -IIc Lily - get them as early as you can. They turn out to be less useful in 1944 than in 1943.

*For bombers, all Sally and Helen models carry 4x250kg. The first Helen has MAD. The later Helens have better range, but honestly you might be able to stick with the Sally if that works with your engine plans.

The Peggy is fine and all, but only carries 3x250kg if no torpedo. Don't bother with the non-torpedo versions.

For transports, I recommend the Ki-49-II KAI Helen. Highest load of your IJAAF transports. You may also want Thalia (12) for 1 more range for paratroop missions, but for supply or noncombat troop transport the range isn't much greater than the Helen (38 for the Thalia, 34 for the Helen = range 19 and range 17 respectively).

IJN
George-1 is best early, you'll want George-2 later when you aren't sweeping as much. Then George-5 when are you sweeping.
Jack-2 is OK, but Jack-3 is better because of SR2. I think Jack-5 is interchangeable with George-5.

A6M8 is pretty good, but you want the A7M Sam ASAP.

Get to the D4Y4 ASAP.

Replace your Kates with Jills, and then with Graces*. If you have to choose, Jill is more important to accelerate than Grace IMO. Skip the B6N1 as it uses a unique engine and has shoddy range.

Get the G3M3 and keep it. The ability to reach out 23+ hexes if you want to is great.

Replace your Bettys with P1Y1, and then P1Y2* ASAP after that. Speed is very important here. They also make decent kamikazes.

Don't forget your G4M2e Betty or P1Y3 Frances if you want to use your Okha models.

Patrols - get the H8K2 ASAP. Ditch the Mavis when you get the H8K1.

Transports - get the H8K version ASAP. It has enormous load capabilities. Get the L2D2 if you want to save a little on HI as it carries almost as much, but the H8K transport is the best in the game other than the C-54 Skymaster.

Float planes - the E13 Jake is a must. With PDU On, you can put it in everything. If you plan to do this, you should devote at least 60 production per month if not more.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 8/24/2016 9:32:14 PM >

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 7

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/24/2016 10:43:34 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3018
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

Big fan of the Ki-100, but the range on the Oscar gives it a niche. IJA don't get many fighters that can escort out beyond 10 hexes.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 8

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/24/2016 10:54:38 PM

Miller

Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline

George over Jack all the time, especially the -2 with its 2 service rating.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 9

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/25/2016 1:01:13 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9583
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

So, PDU ON. Shifting to defensive in q3/Q4 43.

I'm only going to discuss RnD, not what you may or may not build.

When you are on the offensive, you need range to escort your LB's. That said, you have only two choices early, one each for the IJN and IJA. You will want to RnD those two airframes to their optimal model ASAP. And you will be building a lot of them while they are in use.

As mid-43 comes in you will want to transition to more defensive role fighters. In this time frame Frank/Sam.

Remember, I'm only addressing RnD here. I don't tend to RnD anything but fighters any more for two reasons: One, and most important, is that you will build and lose more fighters than any other model type. Two, if you cannot protect what you "have", it doesn't matter much what that is. "Have" in this case means either a base or a bomber that you are escorting.

Getting Frank into 9/43 range isn't too hard, 12-15 x30 factories will do it and you will be building at least 360 Franks each month going forward. Getting SAM in early '44 though is tougher. it will take 15 - 18 x 30 factories to do it. That's at least 450/month in production, but SAM is a beast like Frank and late war it able to work all roles for the IJN. You'll use a lot and lose a lot of 'em .... between these two models, +30% of your factory capacity.

EDIT: IF fighter groups could also upgrade to NF, then I would RnD NF's, but they don't. That means, a fair number of regular fighter groups are always having to be used in NF roles as you get so few total NF groups. That's the reason I don't RnD NF's. To have any impact you need to apply 6 - 9 x30 RnD factories, but that number of factories is way more than you would ever need.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 8/25/2016 3:39:53 AM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 10

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/25/2016 11:57:53 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2509
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
I don't tend to RnD anything but fighters

This is viable motto when considering Japan essential needs ("fighters above everyting else"), but there are some details. When R&D factory is repairing, it is idle, and this is ~60% of the time period until the date of arrival. So with researching late planes like Sam bang for the buck is significantly diminished. Alternatively, you can use some of those factories (about 2 per plane) for useful planes with chains of research starting early, like Emily or Helen. This way the factory will repair quickly, do actual acceleration most of the time, and help get upgrades to the planes while those still matter. Then you can get them on Sam. Additional supply cost + somewhat slower late fighter arrival vs respectable acceleration of useful mid-war frames

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Getting Frank into 9/43 range isn't too hard, 12-15 x30 factories will do it ...

Got Frank-a in 6/43 with 12 factories and some engine bonus here in stock 1. And Ki-100-I in 5/43 with 6 factories because it is so easy to fully repair via Ki-61a then switch, never built a single Kawasaki engine.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 11

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/25/2016 6:21:17 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9583
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

Good, relevant points and not disagreeing with you. But, I generally tend to stick it out ... for me Emily/Mavis isn't that big of a deal. ditto Sally/Helen, etc etc etc. A7M .vs. A6M is a world of difference though. same with Oscar and Frank b ... other models like Judy/Jill fall into the same boat. IF I actually could get the allies to come out and play in '42 I might re-consider. But most of the time Val/Kate works fine as the KB is just a threat and/or I'm just attacking SCTF's or Transport TF's ...

These are all things to consider. But, getting Frank/Sam early just help so much with everything ... and committing a lot of RnD is fine to both as you will just allow many/most of the factories to convert to production as you want to build so many ....

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 12

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/26/2016 8:33:18 PM

Alpha77

Posts: 1829
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline

Only Tojo cause without it you will not survive a serious Allied air enemy.. (Oscar too weak guns and will not fight 4E�s casue not durable). In my last game (but was AI) the Tojo was the only plane which could handle CAP tasks (plus short range sweeps of course). Even Zero are too brittle vs. 4e. This is for up to 44. As for bombers all will die without BIG escort vs. serious opposition so get the ones with best range and most bombs (eg. the 800kg dive bomber looks promising - not tested it so far)...if you get first serious fighters on line you can divert some fighter research to eg. this bomber with the 800kg (imho)

As for navy there no choice but Zero for carriers, later Sam (if you get it early enough perhaps). Kate is still good later on, so another torp bomber is not as important imo.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 8/26/2016 8:37:31 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 13

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/27/2016 3:30:45 AM

rustysi

Posts: 6767
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

I doubt I'll ever agree with the Tony production, but that's me. I even believe the the line should be split as the Ki-100 was only produced because the Japanese finally gave up on the Ki-61, as they couldn't get the licensed Daimler right. All those air-frames and no place to fly. Some bright young engineer decides to strap a radial on there and wallah, the Ki-100. Anyway I digress.

I'd like to bring up one thing as I believe its important. The D4Y1 Judy. To me a must have for Japan. I'd rather have its 500kg bomb smashing through Allied flat decks when I still have a chance to hit something, rather than the Val's 250kg pinging off someones' armor. The Judy can be had by late '42 with almost no effort, and you only need to build ~150 to supply your flattops. Just my .02.

OK, I was wrong. Just some more things. The first Nick is the only one you really need as its upgrades and ancestor are only incremental 'upgrades' as far as I'm concerned. So no need to waste R&D on those puppies. Put the saved Tony and fighter-bomber R&D into the Frank. By the Nick's ancestor I'm referring to the Randy. Now with that A/C the 'c' model is the only one I'd go for as its the best night fighter Japan gets. It has radar the Dinah never gets. Although with all said it could be a hard choice because its appearance is 10/45 I believe and as has been said Japan doesn't get many night-fighter units.

As usual JMHO.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Alpha77)

Post #: 14

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 4:19:41 AM

Alpha77

Posts: 1829
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline

Is the Randy FB the one with 57mm gun ? I am researching it just to test the gun (speed 360 is also ok for a 2E FB imo), I remember the Tojo 40mm would not hit much, perhaps the Randy gun is a bit better. Wonder if I make it long enough to test the plane at all LOL

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 15

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 9:02:28 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2509
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
I doubt I'll ever agree with the Tony production, but that's me. I even believe the the line should be split as the Ki-100 was only produced because the Japanese finally gave up on the Ki-61, as they couldn't get the licensed Daimler right. All those air-frames and no place to fly. Some bright young engineer decides to strap a radial on there and wallah, the Ki-100. Anyway I digress.

I'd like to bring up one thing as I believe its important. The D4Y1 Judy. To me a must have for Japan. I'd rather have its 500kg bomb smashing through Allied flat decks when I still have a chance to hit something, rather than the Val's 250kg pinging off someones' armor. The Judy can be had by late '42 with almost no effort, and you only need to build ~150 to supply your flattops. Just my .02.

You don't need K-61 yes, but Ki-100 is a beast with CL cannons that is easy to get in 43 with some Ha-33 engine bonus. It absolutely shreds 4Es and is better in this role than Nicks and all other 2nd gen fighters with 30 durability. I'd even say better than all 3rd gen fighters except Shinden when you factor in service rating 1.

+1 on Judy, should be mentioned

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 16

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 10:05:59 AM

Encircled

Posts: 1960
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

PDU off - "Learn to love the Oscar"

_____________________________

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 17

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 2:10:49 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 20298
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

You must build a lot of planes including ones you don't like.

Planes you can ignore, that is not to say they can't be useful, but they can be safely ignored for a focused plane production Japan (but really, where is the fun in that?):

The Dinah Fighter
The Lorna
The Rockets
The Jets
All the late war funnies
Nick B and C
Frank B
Lilly level bombers
Sonia
Most dedicated Kamikazes, all navy kamikazes
Ann or Mary
Ida
Nate
Stella
Peggy T (a little questionable here, but it is tough to get pilots up and trained for)
Patsy
Betty Transport, most transports
Most Navy Night Figthers

What you need to research (3 or more size 30 r&d facilities)
Frank A
Tony Line to the 100-I
Sam
George
Jack (comes so much earlier than George)
Judy
Grace
Tojo

Oscar & Zero line....but you want to migrate past them although properly used they are useful all game in diminishing numbers.

final generation fighter: 94II, Shinden seem the best bet, but some players like the twin engined 83. Don't pick more than 1 Army and 1 Navy early on.

Pick planes that interest you and have fun...

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 18

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 3:43:38 PM

Alpha77

Posts: 1829
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

, but Ki-100 is a beast with CL cannons that is easy to get in 43 with some Ha-33 engine bonus. It absolutely shreds 4Es and is better in this role than Nicks and all other 2nd gen fighters with 30 durability. I'd even say better than all 3rd gen fighters except Shinden when you factor in service rating 1.

But KI100 only 360 speed, that is not very good, even the P40 is faster (370)

I also do not agree on Ann with Lowpe, this is a good plane for small airfields. I started to build some of it. But my previous experience was vs. AI, so guess you need to totally scrap any "doubtful" plane in a PBM to have a chance. But the Ann can also fly asw, so.....range 4 on max. Sonia only range 3 (asw range is halved) also 50kg bombs do nothing to subs.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 8/31/2016 3:48:32 PM >

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 19

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 5:16:02 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9158
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
I doubt I'll ever agree with the Tony production, but that's me. I even believe the the line should be split as the Ki-100 was only produced because the Japanese finally gave up on the Ki-61, as they couldn't get the licensed Daimler right. All those air-frames and no place to fly. Some bright young engineer decides to strap a radial on there and wallah, the Ki-100. Anyway I digress.

I'd like to bring up one thing as I believe its important. The D4Y1 Judy. To me a must have for Japan. I'd rather have its 500kg bomb smashing through Allied flat decks when I still have a chance to hit something, rather than the Val's 250kg pinging off someones' armor. The Judy can be had by late '42 with almost no effort, and you only need to build ~150 to supply your flattops. Just my .02.

You don't need K-61 yes, but Ki-100 is a beast with CL cannons that is easy to get in 43 with some Ha-33 engine bonus. It absolutely shreds 4Es and is better in this role than Nicks and all other 2nd gen fighters with 30 durability. I'd even say better than all 3rd gen fighters except Shinden when you factor in service rating 1.

+1 on Judy, should be mentioned

Yep, this is the gist of the Ki-100. Forget the Ki-61, the SR makes it not worth your while, but the Ki-100 is an ace plane. Look at its weapons sometime - it's got the same weapons as the Ki-84 Frank, but reversed: CL cannons and F MGs, vs. CL MGs and F cannons for the Frank.

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 20

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 5:19:42 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9158
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

, but Ki-100 is a beast with CL cannons that is easy to get in 43 with some Ha-33 engine bonus. It absolutely shreds 4Es and is better in this role than Nicks and all other 2nd gen fighters with 30 durability. I'd even say better than all 3rd gen fighters except Shinden when you factor in service rating 1.

But KI100 only 360 speed, that is not very good, even the P40 is faster (370)

I also do not agree on Ann with Lowpe, this is a good plane for small airfields. I started to build some of it. But my previous experience was vs. AI, so guess you need to totally scrap any "doubtful" plane in a PBM to have a chance. But the Ann can also fly asw, so.....range 4 on max. Sonia only range 3 (asw range is halved) also 50kg bombs do nothing to subs.

The P-40 is a fairly fast plane and is mediocre in other ways. And of course nothing for Japan at the Tony stage matches the P-47s, P-38s, or even early P-51s (although the P-38 underperforms like crazy) in terms of speed so comparing the speed is not as useful. 10mph of difference is not that great, and other models of the P-40 are slower. If you absolutely need speed, then upgrade to the Ki-100-II which has 367 but loses some range, etc.

(in reply to Alpha77)

Post #: 21

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 6:53:57 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 20298
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

I also do not agree on Ann with Lowpe, this is a good plane for small airfields. I started to build some of it. But my previous experience was vs. AI, so guess you need to totally scrap any "doubtful" plane in a PBM to have a chance. But the Ann can also fly asw, so.....range 4 on max. Sonia only range 3 (asw range is halved) also 50kg bombs do nothing to subs.

I said Ann or Mary. Pick one, and for me it would be the Ann but others have chosen the Mary.

(in reply to Alpha77)

Post #: 22

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 7:42:08 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9158
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

I use neither, but I play PDU On.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 23

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 9:00:14 PM

Alpha77

Posts: 1829
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

I also do not agree on Ann with Lowpe, this is a good plane for small airfields. I started to build some of it. But my previous experience was vs. AI, so guess you need to totally scrap any "doubtful" plane in a PBM to have a chance. But the Ann can also fly asw, so.....range 4 on max. Sonia only range 3 (asw range is halved) also 50kg bombs do nothing to subs.

I said Ann or Mary. Pick one, and for me it would be the Ann but others have chosen the Mary.

Mary uses an old engine, one can make these to use the old ones up. Mary has also only 3 hex range for asw. But you need to send 1000 for every point. If Mary is worth it....

@ Loka: I invested in this game only 3 facs to the Tony cause I think it is just too slow. I can convert some facs if they researched eg. the Helen to Tony later. PS: I did the same in the AI game before, but there was some Tony modell "out of line" so lost the bonus. And never got the plane cause I quit that game in mid 43. I got some Jacks and Georges tho. However I never saw the urgent need for those planes in this earlier AI game cause the AI would not attack seriously in the air. I only used Nicks, Tojos c and Zero M5 to combat the raids the AI put together. (if they would attack me at all, but rather bomb their own cities I left for them to re-capture

) They would not bring much planes closer to the front too, so also not much need for good sweep planes which I assume is the George for example.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 24

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 9:35:23 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9158
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

I also do not agree on Ann with Lowpe, this is a good plane for small airfields. I started to build some of it. But my previous experience was vs. AI, so guess you need to totally scrap any "doubtful" plane in a PBM to have a chance. But the Ann can also fly asw, so.....range 4 on max. Sonia only range 3 (asw range is halved) also 50kg bombs do nothing to subs.

I said Ann or Mary. Pick one, and for me it would be the Ann but others have chosen the Mary.

Mary uses an old engine, one can make these to use the old ones up. Mary has also only 3 hex range for asw. But you need to send 1000 for every point. If Mary is worth it....

@ Loka: I invested in this game only 3 facs to the Tony cause I think it is just too slow. I can convert some facs if they researched eg. the Helen to Tony later. PS: I did the same in the AI game before, but there was some Tony modell "out of line" so lost the bonus. And never got the plane cause I quit that game in mid 43. I got some Jacks and Georges tho. However I never saw the urgent need for those planes in this earlier AI game cause the AI would not attack seriously in the air. I only used Nicks, Tojos c and Zero M5 to combat the raids the AI put together. (if they would attack me at all, but rather bomb their own cities I left for them to re-capture ) They would not bring much planes closer to the front too, so also not much need for good sweep planes which I assume is the George for example.

You have to be careful when upgrading Tony factories, because one of the Tony models is not in the upgrade path. IIRC, it is the Ki-61d.

(in reply to Alpha77)

Post #: 25

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 8/31/2016 11:48:18 PM

rustysi

Posts: 6767
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

Is the Randy FB the one with 57mm gun ? I am researching it just to test the gun

OK, the Randy line is actually three different A/C. The 'a' model is a fighter, 'b' is a FB, and 'c' is a NF. The 57mm version is the FB, its scheduled to appear 11/44, and the 57mm has an accuracy of 8. It does however have 2CL 20mm, accuracy 56, so they may do most of the 'hitting', and you probable wouldn't be able to tell what the 57mm is doing. I doubt much at acc 8.

The 'a' model has a 37mm, acc 6, and again 2xCL20mm. Its scheduled appearance is 3/45. My point is here, what R&D do you wish to 'waste' with these two. If anything I'd probably convert the Nick's when the 'b' model becomes available, but no precious R&D for these puppies.

quote:

Planes you can ignore

quote:

Frank B

Oh, I think not. This A/C is the Frank I want in my arsenal. Four x 20mm, two of which are CL. As for SR I point to what has been said here about high SR A/C, learn how to deal with it. Its hard to get to with a 3/45 date, but it'll get a lions' share of my R&D to 'make it so'.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 8/31/2016 11:49:54 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 26

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 9/1/2016 1:15:52 AM

Alpha77

Posts: 1829
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline

I play now scen 2 which has some more facs I believe to research too.

I know that Randy is not a "must have" plane, I just put 3 facs to it. I give 3 facs to some later war planes I do not really need urgently but wanna try them out - provided this game goes long enough or I survive at all....eg. I also put 3 facs to Dinah nightfighter (cause seems very fastand has chance to catch bombers compared to Nick or Irving, yes I know it has no radar and armor, needs to be tried out)

If research on more urgent models goes good I can switch more research to these "not urgent" planes. At least this is my reasoning which may be BS

The optimal way would be put everything in Frank and George and Sam and perhaps the Judy....but a bit boring

PS: Does Frank B has really 2 CL guns, I remember 4 wing guns but have the data not here...? Still 4 x 20mm is ok.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 9/1/2016 1:21:30 AM >

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 27

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 9/1/2016 2:43:05 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9583
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Is the Randy FB the one with 57mm gun ? I am researching it just to test the gun

OK, the Randy line is actually three different A/C. The 'a' model is a fighter, 'b' is a FB, and 'c' is a NF. The 57mm version is the FB, its scheduled to appear 11/44, and the 57mm has an accuracy of 8. It does however have 2CL 20mm, accuracy 56, so they may do most of the 'hitting', and you probable wouldn't be able to tell what the 57mm is doing. I doubt much at acc 8.

The 'a' model has a 37mm, acc 6, and again 2xCL20mm. Its scheduled appearance is 3/45. My point is here, what R&D do you wish to 'waste' with these two. If anything I'd probably convert the Nick's when the 'b' model becomes available, but no precious R&D for these puppies.

quote:

Planes you can ignore

quote:

Frank B

Oh, I think not. This A/C is the Frank I want in my arsenal. Four x 20mm, two of which are CL. As for SR I point to what has been said here about high SR A/C, learn how to deal with it. Its hard to get to with a 3/45 date, but it'll get a lions' share of my R&D to 'make it so'.

Frank B is nice when you get it ... the range is what really works ... only late model to be able to match the Helen.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 28

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 9/1/2016 2:47:56 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9158
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Is the Randy FB the one with 57mm gun ? I am researching it just to test the gun

OK, the Randy line is actually three different A/C. The 'a' model is a fighter, 'b' is a FB, and 'c' is a NF. The 57mm version is the FB, its scheduled to appear 11/44, and the 57mm has an accuracy of 8. It does however have 2CL 20mm, accuracy 56, so they may do most of the 'hitting', and you probable wouldn't be able to tell what the 57mm is doing. I doubt much at acc 8.

The 'a' model has a 37mm, acc 6, and again 2xCL20mm. Its scheduled appearance is 3/45. My point is here, what R&D do you wish to 'waste' with these two. If anything I'd probably convert the Nick's when the 'b' model becomes available, but no precious R&D for these puppies.

quote:

Planes you can ignore

quote:

Frank B

Oh, I think not. This A/C is the Frank I want in my arsenal. Four x 20mm, two of which are CL. As for SR I point to what has been said here about high SR A/C, learn how to deal with it. Its hard to get to with a 3/45 date, but it'll get a lions' share of my R&D to 'make it so'.

The Randy-a is a ferocious beast, from what little I saw of it in the one game I've had so far that hit 1945. Because of altitude and its solid other statistics, it gives Allied sweepers a headache.

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 29

RE: MUST HAVE Japanese planes - 9/1/2016 11:07:20 PM

rustysi

Posts: 6767
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

PS: Does Frank B has really 2 CL guns, I remember 4 wing guns but have the data not here...? Still 4 x 20mm is ok.

Sams, Jacks, and Georges have 4x20mm wing cannon (certain models), Frank b has 4 with 2 of them CL and 2 wing.

quote:

The Randy-a is a ferocious beast

I'll take your word for it, I just don't know if I can make room to R&D it. Seems the 'b' FB version should be good too then. It comes naturally in 11/44.

_____________________________

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 30