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Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24

 
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Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/21/2016 4:57:41 PM   
ironduke1955


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Looking for anyone who would like to give GD1938 MOD a try

This will be a fast game no penalties of course but it would be appreciated if turns can be played within 24 hours or thereabouts.

So far we have.

GD 1938 Game 24

Germany ?
Italy ?
Japan LJBurstyn
USSR ?
France ?
United Kingdom ?
United States of America ?
China ironduke
Post #: 1
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/22/2016 4:46:12 PM   
Bombur

 

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I can play BG, France or both...

(in reply to ironduke1955)
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RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/22/2016 5:05:40 PM   
ironduke1955


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So far we have new players welcome.

GD 1938 Game 24

Germany ?
Italy ?
Japan LJBurstyn
USSR baloo7777
France ?
United Kingdom Bombur
United States of America Falco
China ironduke

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Post #: 3
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/22/2016 7:04:26 PM   
cpdeyoung


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GD 1938 Game 24

Germany cpdeyoung
Italy ?
Japan LJBurstyn
USSR baloo7777
France ?
United Kingdom Bombur
United States of America Falco
China ironduke

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Post #: 4
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/23/2016 3:16:03 AM   
cpdeyoung


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Please start thinking about the rules set we want to play with. How do we all feel about the new victory conditions?

Personally I will not be sure till more turns have gone by in Game 23, and I would be fine with the old ones too.

Chuck

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Post #: 5
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/23/2016 3:49:48 PM   
LJBurstyn

 

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I don't like being forced to choose between victory options on the first turn. So I like the new victory options in game 23.

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Post #: 6
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/24/2016 7:38:10 AM   
ironduke1955


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I tend to agree with Larry to go back to the original victory conditions without a complete game to judge them by is premature, and unfair on the mod creators who are looking for a sample complete game to judge the new victory conditions, and I did think as game 23 is very slow that we could push this game forward quickly and get a sense from this game 24 on how the new victory conditions work or not.

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Post #: 7
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/24/2016 7:45:26 AM   
ironduke1955


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Ok looking for a Italy player and a France player to take part a quicker game of GD 1938 if any gamer's have wanted to give the mod a try then its time to throw your hat into the ring.

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Post #: 8
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/25/2016 2:15:19 AM   
cpdeyoung


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Please consider a six player game.

Italy - cpdeyoung
France - Bombur

Germany cpdeyoung
Japan LJBurstyn
USSR baloo7777
United Kingdom Bombur
United States of America Falco
China ironduke

France is a bit smallish for the long run, and Germany-Italy is a better aggressor than Germany alone.

Chuck

(in reply to ironduke1955)
Post #: 9
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/26/2016 10:08:24 PM   
ironduke1955


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Thing is with the new rules Germany and Italy are looking like a pretty substantial advantage for one player, basically you have a stooge to further Germany's war goals, a independent Italy would looking at how they could win.

UK France not quite the same thing, with France against a good German player its just a matter of time before the hammer falls.

< Message edited by ironduke1955 -- 8/26/2016 10:10:51 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/27/2016 12:37:42 AM   
cpdeyoung


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From: South Carolina, USA
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quote:

Thing is with the new rules Germany and Italy are looking like a pretty substantial advantage for one player, basically you have a stooge to further Germany's war goals, a independent Italy would looking at how they could win.


The Italians will look a long time if they are looking for a "major" win.

I do not agree that the advantage is greater than you enjoyed in games 21 and 22 when you played GR-IT. The European Axis must be strong enough to be a threat to world peace. I wonder when you were planning on attacking in Game 23 if GB-FR had not slapped at the U-boats.

Looking at the map in 1938 I am not seeing Germany as an aggressive power. I do not have a better tank than PzII-C and the build-able PzIII-D is fabulously expensive. With every production source building PP we manage 74. The "minor" powers have infantry divisions stronger than mine. Even with Italy I will not be looking for a fight. I don't need Lebenstraum. I have no thoughts that the Slavs are untermensch. Some of my gaming companions live in the UK!

These new victory conditions make me a very peaceful fellow.

Chuck

(in reply to ironduke1955)
Post #: 11
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/27/2016 7:14:08 AM   
ironduke1955


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cpdeyoung
"You had the advantage of commanding Germany and Italy, which I consider just as valuable as the China/USA combo that Larry is so concerned about"

I have to beg to differ on Italy I have done well with Italy you can increase base production to 100+ Production Points more with factories fighter's are good generic heavy tanks also fairly good. As you said its a advantage.

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Post #: 12
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/27/2016 9:53:22 AM   
cpdeyoung


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I know Italy under complete German control is an advantage.

That is why I want it.

However I do not see Italy on its own getting the 33% for Major victory. Two many bigger players out there.

Chuck

(in reply to ironduke1955)
Post #: 13
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/27/2016 7:43:45 PM   
ironduke1955


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"I do not agree that the advantage is greater than you enjoyed in games 21 and 22 when you played GR-IT. The European Axis must be strong enough to be a threat to world peace."

Not really my argument of course Italy was a advantage but in those games a adjunct is how I would describe Italy, its victory conditions often conflicting with Germany's so not really a power with a prayer. Now however depending on the player it could see its way to victory, with some timing and politicking.

"I wonder when you were planning on attacking in Game 23 if GB-FR had not slapped at the U-boats."

Well game 23 is ongoing so I will only say that I have the plans for the peace park to be built in Berlin, so sad it would have been lovely.

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Post #: 14
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 8/27/2016 7:45:56 PM   
ironduke1955


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Looking for Two more players, to play France and Italy.

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Post #: 15
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/8/2016 3:12:37 PM   
Bombur

 

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Give Italy to Germany and France to GB....

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Post #: 16
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/8/2016 3:24:49 PM   
ernieschwitz

 

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An interesting alternative, that would not mess up turn order, could be that Japan also played Italy.

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Post #: 17
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/17/2016 7:23:51 PM   
tortugapower

 

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Looks like a fun group. I have no multiplayer experience, and I haven't checked out this mod yet. Should I attempt to gain more experience in one, the other, or both before tossing my hat in?

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Post #: 18
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/17/2016 9:42:24 PM   
cpdeyoung


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Welcome, we will love a new combatant!

Please note that we are hoping for a "fast game" with rapid turnover of turns.

I am scheduled to play Germany in a Game 24 so let me address some "multiplayer" aspects :

As you might have noticed this game has been on hold because there is objection to Germany and Italy being played by the same player. It is felt that this would make the two countries act as one. If I played both I would attempt to optimize the chances for German victory. If you would play Italy it is felt that you would be more independent.

On the other hand in Game 23 Germany and Italy are very closely cooperating, and Japan is a third partner in an Axis. This mod is not plain vanilla ATG, not even very close. If Germany does not have a skilled, pretty cooperative partner in Italy it will change the whole nature of the game.

There is only a single grand victor in this version (new victory conditions) and possible multiple lesser victors. In my opinion it will be very difficult for Italy to be the grand victor. However a nation only has to be on the "winning side" to be a lesser victor.

One path to a victory for Italy is to ally and campaign vigorously with the Germans, and perhaps the Japanese. If this path appeals to you we could ally as soon as possible and follow the Game 23 path. If you would be interested we could discuss this arrangement by email and my email address is available through Matrix. I would "mentor" you if you would want some general guidance to the interesting variants this mod introduces. ... However ... You are welcome to play Italy with no concern for those ruffians to the north and thumb your nose at the Third Reich.

I know we all appreciate your offer to join and are delighted to have you join us. If italy does not appeal to you there is always France, or we could probably shuffle players and countries to get you another slot. In any case please know you are most welcome!

Chuck

PS : The AARs are not all they could be but they will be an interesting read for you as you approach GD1938!

(in reply to tortugapower)
Post #: 19
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/18/2016 7:51:14 AM   
ironduke1955


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Welcome Tortugapower

I am slated to play China if you don't find Italy or France attractive then I would be happy to swap China for Italy, China is normally a entry level power as the combat is almost purely land based.

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Post #: 20
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/19/2016 8:40:53 AM   
tortugapower

 

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Here are my quick response points: For my time needed for a turn of play, I imagine I could forward within 24 hours.

For the mod, I shall download it Monday evening (I'm Western U.S.) and start poking around.

I have to emphasize that I'm new to competitive multiplayer, so a smaller role to start would be best for everyone so that I don't spoil the game. In this regard, your offer of tutelage is a very welcome one.

As for the diplomatic dynamics... I don't understand any reason for the Axis not to work together. I assume France, U.K., USA will also be working together? And my biggest question is how things work with the USSR, which in my long history of playing with a group for HoI3 is always the touchy discussion.

Edit: I went through the first 50 posts of the Game 23 AAR. Nothing interesting yet. Is there a better place to look, or is it buried deeper?

< Message edited by tortugapower -- 9/19/2016 8:47:37 AM >


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RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/19/2016 2:42:55 PM   
cpdeyoung


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The new victory conditions do not lead to an Axis-Allied confrontation to the degree that the older conditions did.

Under the old conditions each nation picked one VC out of a custom crafted set of VCs. These were constructed by a real human, with a sense of how World War II really went. Most games went a lot like WW2, with the exception that the Soviets were a wild card and might play as more sympathetic to the Axis. In general the "East Front" attack by Germany on the USSR did occur, and a huge struggle occurred. A big variant was introduced if Japan and the USSR did not stay at peace throughout the conflict, and variants of the Sino-Japanese situation were another common diversion from history.

Under the new conditions anything goes. There is a single nation which can win a major victory, but it is difficult to see how it can be done without "allies". These allies can win a minor victory. Nations not in this coalition will be "defeated". Thus Italy would be wise to join the coalition headed for "victory", even if it does not include Germany. Alliances among the major powers, such as the GB-FR, USSR, USA, China "alliance" of WW2 would result in one of these powers convincing the others to support her for a "major" and becoming "also-rans". Thus I see a wild end game where a power with 35+ points looks for a winning combo, even among "enemy" nations. No one has seen the end of a new VC game yet.

The older AARs, going back to the earliest GD1938 games will give you a look at how the old VCs drove a game. As for the new VCs Game 23 is the only example, and it looks to have an old fashioned Axis-Allies pattern, but this may fall apart as the 35 point threshold approaches. Very wild west sort of situation. Some "non-rewarded" commitment to the cause will be required of majors in a coalition.

Chuck

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Post #: 22
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/20/2016 11:21:45 PM   
tortugapower

 

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I loaded up GD 1938 gold (version y) last night, and I also read through more of the game 23 AAR. I'm starting to get a sense for the new victory conditions. I see, for example, that USA used Finland to lose isolationism, but that was taken poorly.

From what I gather, it seems the house rules aren't too strict about maintaining any semblance of a historical timeline? What are the house rules for this?

Let me make an extreme example: if I played as Italy, pretended to go along with Germany, and then backstabbed them, it seems that would ruin the intended balance, although this also seems like a great way for me to guarantee myself a minor victory, if that's the only parameter I condition my play over. (Note that's not the way I play, I tend towards something generally historical.)

Anyway, I can also see that things are greatly different in the GD1938 mod, so I'm trying to do a test game by myself to get a feel for it. Lots to learn still. I know from experience that there will be a ton of tricks that I won't discover until I'm hit in the face with it.



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Distant Worlds Universe
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Post #: 23
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/21/2016 12:20:17 AM   
cpdeyoung


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The stricture on the USA being isolated is not too sensible in a ruleset where it is a dog eat dog scramble for victory points. The new VCs posit a world where Germany and the USA might agree on who gets the major and happily campaign together. American isolationism is a left over from the "scripted" world of the old VCs.

The new GD1938 is "Risk". It is a war-game played on a map of the world of 1938 without the political state that existed then. It is a game for amusement of somewhat jaded players of the older VCs. There might need to be some reform of the old VCs, but they give a much better feel for World War II.

I am going to post a call for a "classic" game in this forum, and think you should consider joining it. This will give you lots of AARs to see what is up.

Chuck

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RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/22/2016 1:47:48 AM   
falco148

 

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I'm quite happy with the new victory conditions. I think theres still some historical plausibility with an extra degree of randomness.

So do we have enough players to kick off now?

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RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/22/2016 11:55:28 AM   
ironduke1955


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"The new GD1938 is "Risk"

I would have no problem with playing the old victory conditions, if chuck feels that strongly about the new system. I am playing a game of GD1938 on the Generals HQ forum where the game has broken down into a global war with Japan USA and USSR V France Italy and The United Kingdom no player yet has achieved their victory conditions, as the GB player I have it within my power to gift victory to one of my allies that would end the game but I have decided that is not perhaps how the game should be played giving our opponents a opportunity to win the game by force of arms. Or our alliance to win also via military power only.

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RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/22/2016 4:59:51 PM   
cpdeyoung


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Interesting post Ironduke, where are Germany and China aligned?

Chuck

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RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 9/22/2016 6:18:41 PM   
ironduke1955


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Japan destroyed China with the British desperately holding the last Chinese cities in the Himalayas, Germany was overwhelmed by the French and British and surrendered, and now the British and Italians are fighting the Soviet Union who changed sides from a alliance with the British in a war against the Japanese, to a war against the British with the USA Japanese and the Soviet Union as allies, the French were British Allies and remained so the Italians had remained neutral but for survival joined the British and French.

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RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 10/5/2016 12:35:14 PM   
cpdeyoung


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From the "Fast, Classic" thread, where Ironduke1955 said :

quote:

I am for starting game 24 GD1938 if necessary Chuck can play Germany and Italy if no other player steps forward we have players who have shown willing the least that can be done is to reward them with a game.


Just a quick check that all are onboard. I will post a GR-IT turn tonight. Game 24 will live.

Chuck

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Post #: 29
RE: Opponents Wanted GD1938 Game 24 - 10/5/2016 1:41:14 PM   
baloo7777


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I'm good to go...think I am the Soviets, right?


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