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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF Game File.

 
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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/7/2020 5:17:57 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k

Actually, those two fields act very close to what you are saying. I actually posted this somewhere else a while ago I think.


Essentially, the 7th element in that row has a 1 added to it if the hex its in is in the Southern half of the map, or >= row 128.

The 8th field (and i believe all fields) have a max value of 65536 which is a common limit in programming for hexadecimal kinds of values. So to get around that, Steve just broke up the map into 128 rows for group 1 (index 0) and the rest in group 2 (index 1).

Just like you said,
1st group of hexes: USR[8] = 512*row + column, for row < 128
2nd (southern) group of hexes: USR[8] = 512*row + column - 128*512, for row >= 128

but for the 2nd group you had to remove the 128*512 so how do you keep track of that, well, by putting the 1 in the 7th slot.

You'll notice that all other things that get put into that 7th slot are even. So the 1 is available to designate 2nd group of hexes:

Sea Zone Id * 2
Sea Box * 256
pool * 2048
(second set of hexes ?) * 1 (boolean)

Mark, have you "written" all your knowledge down some where? That is, captured it electronically?

Do you think there's any benefit if we combine what we know (you a heck of a lot and me some but not nearly as much) into a "game file" editing document?

Or should we just continue like this via posts?

I wonder if anyone else in the community is interested in this or is it just us?

By the way I'm finding your knowledge invaluable in coding my game file editors and controllers.

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Ronnie

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/7/2020 6:12:41 PM   
paulderynck


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It'd be great to see all this research combined in one document. I'm intrigued by what you are doing and have often thought about doing a program to optimize production based on the CP counts in each sea zone at turn end, and respecting all announced lends. But recently there's been work done on improving production, so perhaps it is no longer needed.

I had gone as far as finding where in the game file you can find the number of CPs in each sea zone, but you guys likely already have that cased.



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Paul

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Post #: 122
RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/7/2020 6:25:31 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

It'd be great to see all this research combined in one document. I'm intrigued by what you are doing and have often thought about doing a program to optimize production based on the CP counts in each sea zone at turn end, and respecting all announced lends. But recently there's been work done on improving production, so perhaps it is no longer needed.

I had gone as far as finding where in the game file you can find the number of CPs in each sea zone, but you guys likely already have that cased.


Thanks! One thing I'll probably cover in my bots thread next week (hopefully), is a counter's editing controller that allows the user to move counters, change pools, change status (i.e., flip/org) and change CP/saved Oil/BPs size. It's becoming apparent to me that this capability could be used as the foundation in the short term to build controllers, if priority is given, for:
(1) naval/ASW bots,
(2) variety of comma delimited (Excel compatible) reports,
(3) true multi-player (3 - 6) capability where individual players can controller MPs, or theaters (e.g., Western Allies-Asia/Pacific).

Though (3) is not a priority for me but I'd be willing to work with anyone in the community who'd like to see such a capability. I must say that (3) surprised me but after getting to where I am on the counters editor it really doesn't look that daunting. Again, not one of my priorities ...


< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 8/7/2020 6:27:42 PM >


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Ronnie

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Post #: 123
RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/7/2020 6:36:03 PM   
markb50k

 

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It's not written down formally, other than the fact that the formulas in my Excel version of my war engine allow me to see what I learned implemented in code.

Putting it all into a document would be fantastic but its almost impossible to get a feel of the level of detail or context that needs to be explained when simply explaining how to change the file. Changing a number is one thing but it really makes more sense to explain why, what the number means, etc. That part has always prevented me from jotting down everything formally.


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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/7/2020 6:39:31 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k

It's not written down formally, other than the fact that the formulas in my Excel version of my war engine allow me to see what I learned implemented in code.

Putting it all into a document would be fantastic but its almost impossible to get a feel of the level of detail or context that needs to be explained when simply explaining how to change the file. Changing a number is one thing but it really makes more sense to explain why, what the number means, etc. That part has always prevented me from jotting down everything formally.


I hear you ... same here too ...


< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 8/7/2020 8:19:28 PM >


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Ronnie

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/7/2020 6:42:12 PM   
markb50k

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k
So its Possible the 8192 ALSO means repair pool but i dont have enough data to confirm. BB Maryland and BB California also have the 8192 so it must have something to do with being in repair pool, but to prove it you need to put a ship in the repair pool during normal game play and see if the 8192 shows up in that slot. if it doesn't then 8192 must mean "Starts the scenario in repair pool"

UPDATE: Or, and this just occurred to me, it may just mean damaged. Yeah, thats probably it.
Here's a the Mar/Apr 1941 repair pool for I game I'm playing (when I'm not coding all this.)

I've include a (work in progress) snipped of a counter summary report produced by my editor and imported into excel. The "Pool_Wrap" column (in yellow) is the 7th field of the 4th ship record (i.e., USR[7]) and they "Cycle" column (in orange) is the 3rd field in the last line for ships (i.e., LL[3]).

I think you're right on the money with all this. Thanks again for your help.





One thing that I've learned can confuse things is the fact that the game doesn't clear things when it needs to. For instance, notice that the Australia has 14340 in its 7th slot vs 14336. 14336 is the standard value for repair pool. Where does the 4 come from? Well, its left over from when the ship was at sea. If i remember correctly, 4 would mean seazone 2 (remember its 2 * sea zone id), and i believe thats Western or Eastern Med. So i would guess that the Australia was damaged while in that sea area. Even though the ship is no longer at sea, it didnt need to clear that value out so someone like us trying to figure out what that 4 is for would be mislead unless they figured out what I just mentioned.

Its fun figuring this out, but its essentially a black box we are trying to reverse engineer in many ways lol.

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Post #: 126
RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/7/2020 7:51:59 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k
Its fun figuring this out, but its essentially a black box we are trying to reverse engineer in many ways lol.
I personally have to take care not to jump down the rabbit hole chasing after interesting things that aren't directly related to my task(s) at hand. I don't need to understand everything in the "black box" only those things I need to change in order to build the controllers and bots that I wish to build. I have to keep reminding myself that.


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Post #: 127
RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/8/2020 12:44:34 AM   
jjdenver

 

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Is there a post somewhere on how to turn off an optional rule (or on) once the game has started?

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/8/2020 1:58:57 AM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Is there a post somewhere on how to turn off an optional rule (or on) once the game has started?
I thought it was covered in the thread you started?


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Post #: 129
RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/8/2020 6:20:36 PM   
jjdenver

 

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You are right ty!! Apparently I'm a spammer. :)

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/11/2020 4:03:33 PM   
rkr1958


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Two more questions for markb50k or anyone else who wishes to answer. 1 easy and 1 hard, I assume. I'll ask the easy one first.

(1) Where can I find which countries are axis and which are allied. I guess, specifically I'm asking how can I determine which side (if any) the minors are aligned?

(2) This second question includes a screen cap. Take, for example, the Japanese transport 4443 carrying the 20th inf army in the 2-box of the China Sea. In the 4th field (highlighted in blue) in what I'm calling the USR (unit status record) is the uid (unit id) except when carrying or loaded as cargo. This also applies to CVs and loaded CVPs. Do you know how uid is modified in these cases? Do you know of any other fields in this or other records that indicate carry or loaded as cargo?

IJN TRS 4443 Record Set
,49,48,1930
255,2860,,-1,-1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
[descriptive text]
6292,6320,0,20828,193,42471,652,41626,0,0,0,0,224,0,32768,3245 <==> USR
-1,UndoData
26240,336,16384,768,0,0,0

IJA 20th Inf Record Set
20th Inf,49,0,1938
0
255,1504,,-1,-1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
[descriptive text]
6296,6272,0,34928,1023,60203,652,41626,0,0,9,0,224,0,54163,57344 <==> USR
-1,UndoData
0,1077




Attachment (1)

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Ronnie

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Post #: 131
RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 8/11/2020 7:17:30 PM   
rkr1958


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Ok. I think I've figured out half of question 2. For the cargo carriers (i.e., CVs, TRS, Amphs, ATRs, SCSs), the unit id (uid) field value is calculated as,

uid = uid0 + 8192*number_of_cargo, where uid0 is the cargo carriers id in the Standard Units *.csv file(s) and number_of_cargo is the number of units loaded onto the carrier.

So it looks to me that the uid for the cargo has to map back to what's carrying it. Will let you know when/if I (think I) figure this part out.

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 10/22/2020 6:57:51 PM   
ssiviour

 

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Hi. I have a problem with a Lend lease Unit not appearing in the CW force pool. It is reported in the Netplay Tech support forum.

Wondering if there is a way to manually fix it?

Thanks

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 10/22/2020 8:44:33 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ssiviour

Hi. I have a problem with a Lend lease Unit not appearing in the CW force pool. It is reported in the Netplay Tech support forum.

Wondering if there is a way to manually fix it?

Thanks
If it were a solitaire game file I'd say yes. Not sure how edits work with netplay game files.


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Ronnie

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Post #: 134
RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 10/23/2020 7:45:53 PM   
ssiviour

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: ssiviour

Hi. I have a problem with a Lend lease Unit not appearing in the CW force pool. It is reported in the Netplay Tech support forum.

Wondering if there is a way to manually fix it?

Thanks
If it were a solitaire game file I'd say yes. Not sure how edits work with netplay game files.


As I understand it, editing a particular file is the same as a solo game. The difference is, once done the file will have to be emailed to the opponent so both players load the same game and are in sync.

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Post #: 135
RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 10/24/2020 3:48:40 PM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ssiviour


quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: ssiviour

Hi. I have a problem with a Lend lease Unit not appearing in the CW force pool. It is reported in the Netplay Tech support forum.

Wondering if there is a way to manually fix it?

Thanks
If it were a solitaire game file I'd say yes. Not sure how edits work with netplay game files.


As I understand it, editing a particular file is the same as a solo game. The difference is, once done the file will have to be emailed to the opponent so both players load the same game and are in sync.


You're correct.


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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 10/26/2020 12:46:55 AM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: ssiviour


quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: ssiviour

Hi. I have a problem with a Lend lease Unit not appearing in the CW force pool. It is reported in the Netplay Tech support forum.

Wondering if there is a way to manually fix it?

Thanks
If it were a solitaire game file I'd say yes. Not sure how edits work with netplay game files.


As I understand it, editing a particular file is the same as a solo game. The difference is, once done the file will have to be emailed to the opponent so both players load the same game and are in sync.


You're correct.


Well if that's the case I think I know how to do it. Give me a bit of time to see if I can "successfully" do this with a solitary file and if so I'll post the edit instructions.

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 10/26/2020 12:47:19 AM >


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Ronnie

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 10/26/2020 1:19:46 AM   
rkr1958


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I'm afraid it's not as simple as I thought it might be. I was hoping that only a couple of line per air unit lent leased would change, with the exception of file saved timestamp. However, the lending of 2 air units resulted in 18 lines that changed in addition to the timestamp line 4 and also line 5 for some reason. So this looks to be more involved and "risker" that I had hoped. I guess my advice at this point is to live with the it as is and make the lend leases at your first opportunity.




Attachment (1)

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Ronnie

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 10/26/2020 2:13:46 AM   
ssiviour

 

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Oh well, thanks anyway Ronnie ... pity it's a handy little plane for the CW

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 2/7/2021 9:27:53 PM   
Majorball68


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Do you know where the lending agreements are in a save file so they can be altered? I have a save file where all the agreements have been set to mandatory and cannot be cancelled. I have posted it as a bug in the Tech forum but we would like to keep going with our game.

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 2/8/2021 3:25:19 AM   
Majorball68


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Found them!

Around line number 10000 in the save. Same order as appears in the lending window from top to bottom. The last 3 zeros indicate something to do with a mandatory trade so I copy and past from a good save to get the trades back to temporary. Don't know how they became all mandatory.

0,1,1,1,0,0,201,53,-1,0,1
0,0,2,0,0,0,80,201,-1,0,1
1,0,5,0,0,0,79,89,-1,0,1
2,0,0,0,0,0,79,51,0,0,0
0,0,1,0,0,0,100,79,0,0,0
0,1,1,0,0,0,120,80,0,0,0
1,0,0,0,0,0,49,11,0,0,0
0,2,2,0,0,0,78,49,0,0,0
0,1,1,0,0,0,68,201,0,0,0
0,2,2,0,0,0,101,79,0,0,0
0,1,1,0,0,0,101,89,0,0,0
0,0,3,0,0,0,87,79,0,0,0
0,0,1,0,0,0,103,79,0,0,0
0,3,3,0,0,0,11,201,0,0,1
0,2,2,0,0,0,11,80,0,0,1
0,2,4,0,0,0,11,49,0,0,0
0,2,7,0,0,0,51,79,0,0,0
0,3,3,0,0,0,34,201,0,0,0
0,3,3,0,0,0,34,11,0,0,0

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 2/8/2021 2:59:24 PM   
Joseignacio


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

Excellent sherlocking! Maybe somebody will make a little program to do this edits with a nice GUI, and it saves even more time.


What is a GUI? Never mind, i found it's meaning but I still don't know what it is or how it can affect to editing these txts.

quote:

A GUI (graphical user interface) is a system of interactive visual components for computer software. A GUI displays objects that convey information, and represent actions that can be taken by the user. The objects change color, size, or visibility when the user interacts with them.



< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 2/8/2021 3:01:35 PM >

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 2/10/2021 6:36:09 AM   
paulderynck


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If someone was to write a program that could edit MWiF game files, but was able to present this to a user with drop-down selection lists and buttons to make changes, then that would be a GUI. For example, the program might have a drop-down list from which you can select a major power, and then another from which you can select the name of any sea zone, and then an up-down control to adjust the quantity of convoy points in the selected sea zone. The default starting number of CPs would be read from the submitted game file and once this and maybe other changes were made, the program would write out a new game file.

Maybe those controls would be in a separate window that opens after you press a button labelled "Change CPs".

I remember several programs like that which were offered as freeware by some hobbyist developers, to edit game files from the game Master of Orion, for example.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 2/10/2021 6:37:45 AM >


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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 2/10/2021 1:44:59 PM   
Joseignacio


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Thanks for the explanation

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 4/19/2021 8:43:59 AM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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In our current game all trade agreements have switched to "mandatory". That causes some issues. Those can be worked around by editing file every turn to get BPs and oils right, but it's not easy. Is it possible to fix "mandatory" to "voluntary"?

If any beta tester with fixing tool is reading this, can this be fixed using tool? If not, can you use tool give every major power one BP to be saved? That way I can fix and give them more every turn. I don't know how to give 1 BP if one has none. I know how to turn 1 into 5.

We are still working on to find the exact moment when the bug appeared and will post it to tech support.

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If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 5/12/2021 12:57:58 AM   
ViktorKormel


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Thank you very much for this thread! It is very useful for me and my friends. No more fightings with the convoy system and many other nasty bugs!

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What if if what if

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 5/12/2021 8:14:10 AM   
Joseignacio


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Hey Viktor, the betatesters now say the system is working properly and it's just us who cannot manage the convoys the right way! LOL.

Even there is a thread trying to convince people that this is true. ROLFMAO

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4962925

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 5/12/2021 10:58:04 AM   
Angeldust2

 

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To get an idea, how customers really value the experience MWIF gives them, one can go to this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5018009

But attention, here some real players of this specific game, who spent hundreds of game hours over several years, report on their experiences and their perceived value-for-money, they are getting from MWIF already now, with all its small weaknesses and imperfections.

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RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 5/12/2021 1:05:52 PM   
Joseignacio


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Does that contradict any of the previous statements?

I have bought the game in the first batch that came to the market, with transport and taxes it costed me about 200€. and it didn't work well even in solitaire (which for 99% for people is not worth playing but anyway...).

After what? 15 years, the game seems to work in solitaire but not in Netplay, most people who play in a group use diverse systems to share screen et al, to be able to play. Even with this, the AS (Artificial Stupidity) keeps sending my resources through lame routes even though I correct it once and again; some resources are not credited, like recently the NEI resources to Japan, and I need like 5 or 10 convoys more to be able to get the resouces than I should need, to compensate the errors of the program. Extra convoys which are more prey for enemy subs , giving sometimes an extra bonus because of becoming more than 10, and always a higher number of ships, which means higher values of losses in the table.

Sometimes we get the game hanged like it did recently with something that was supposed to be solved but fails sometimes, the ships AA fire; that not counting on MIL that dont come up like the Nanking (which was later adressed), partisans that cannot be killed and can stack with enemies, or desync problems due to Matrix's online platform, which kicks us from time to time, or the game simply hanging because one of the computers believe one side has one CAP to do and the other doesn't think so, so the game doesn't progress.

When I reported this last one and asked whether someone was checking netplay errors after there had been no comments at least in the netplay Tech support forum for two weeks I got a message from a (I think) betatester, and the answer I got is "sorry to say that there are game stopping bugs in netplay. cant tell you when they will be fixed." which looks suspiciously similar to "sh*t happens, shut up and man", although maybe I am guessing too much here, but honestly that's how I felt then.

This system is retro-feeding, the worst it works in netplay the more people who plays it in the solitaire and sends screen through TeamViewer and similar. Apart from not being theoretically necessary if the game worked right, this brings security risks for the computers connected. And the less people plays netplay the less reports come and less attention is paid by the Tech Support. So the less netplay improves.

After 15 years more or less, I thought something more could come from this, not an AI, not all the scenarios, not the optionals, not a 5 or 7 players game, but at least a good netplay system for 2.

Now I believe all the effort seems to be concentrated in AI for the game (not only conv), but I have no faith in it after seeing that I order the computer for the 10th time how to carry the resources (routes drawn by me in a paper just to make sure) with more than enough convoys and the computer rejects it for the 10th time...after doing all this following the book and video tutorial sequencies. I cannot hope too much of the general AI in year 2050 when it comes out.

I am a fan of the board game, have recommended MWIF to my mates and in the forums, where everybody told me how naive I was for believing in this project, and I am finally coming to see that they were right.

Some people, old fans of the board game and newcomers have both fallen in love with it cause it is better than nothing and allows them to play their favourite game with a distant opponent... somehow.

For me, who was here from the beginning it is a list of dissapointments and only now some happiness that goes away soon, after seeing how after more than a decade of difficult birth, the baby is left crying with wet diapers, in order to make a new child.

I am not complaining on Steve, I know he tries to be fair and does his best, but maybe this project was too much for just one person in the first place.

And some things I believe are just a matter of pride and could be easily solved, like accepting that the Artificial Dumbness cannot manage convoys and letting the user decide which convoy carries what where. But alas... here we are.



< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 5/12/2021 4:46:46 PM >

(in reply to Angeldust2)
Post #: 149
RE: A Layman's Guide to Successfully Editing the MWiF G... - 5/13/2021 3:13:08 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8184
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
Game released in 2013, your life is slipping by more quickly than you imagine.

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Paul

(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 150
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