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RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End

 
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RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/4/2016 8:35:39 AM   
Stelteck

 

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You are right to prepare for the future.

Still you are in better position than me to avoid the automatic german victory as rostov can be secured for sure so i hope this AAR will go on.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 61
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/5/2016 12:17:43 AM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

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Re the German 'supply distance' my understanding is that this is 30 hexes from the railhead - a HQ can pick up supply from 25 hexes and then its subordinate units take supply from the HQ at up to 5 further hexes. May well be wrong - I am extremely inexperienced!

Really enjoying this AAR - the effort that you are putting in to the pdfs is very impressive and I feel that despite the game going against you I am learning a great deal from your approach.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 62
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/7/2016 4:11:46 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn nineteen

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 63
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/7/2016 4:21:43 PM   
Dinglir


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Sammy: In my experience, Pelton has been reluctant to move his HQ's around to much (he wants to save trucks). So in our game the distance I use is 25 hexes. This will probably vary based on the German truck pool.

However, in my understanding you could conceivably put an army group HQ 24 hexes in front of your railhead, and army five hexes in front of that, a corps HQ further five hexes ahead and then you divisions five hexes further out. However, I don't really count this as within the supply distance as you would need so many trucks moving supplies that you would end up getting little supply to the front at all.

I basically use the 25 hex distance as a sort of imaginary line of where the German supply will "tip over" and the Germans will start having supply shortages. So if a strategic target is 40 hexes out Pelton will not target it (I think). If it is 30 hexes out, he will target it "if worth the effort", if 20 hexes he will certainly go for it.

In short, it is a sort of "You need to deal with potential German targets on one side of the line differently than targets on the other side of the line".

I don't know if this makes any sense at all.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 64
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/7/2016 9:32:45 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

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Yes that makes complete sense.

I checked the manual and I don't think it's possible to 'chain' HQs in the way you describe - it seems that all HQs take supply from the rail head and only pass on supply to directly subordinate units.

I think that the '25 hexes' idea is a good rule of thumb - my understanding is that at 25 hexes a HQ is going to get a really reduced amount of supply to then pass on to its units so the capabilities of those units will be severely impaired. In theory though I guess a unit 30 hexes away could be supplied by a HQ buildup albeit I imagine that would consume very significant amount of trucks. Maybe worth keeping in mind if you were playing a less 'truck-conscious' opponent.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 65
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/7/2016 11:44:41 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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@Dinglir: You got things wrong here. The Maximum distance from the railhead is 25hexes HQ distance+5hexagons HQ-unit distance=30hexagons. As Sammy already wrote, there is no chain of HQs. The only important HQ for supply purposes is the one the combat unit is directly attached to!
I wrote an excerpt of the supply rules for myself which briefly explains the conditions for HQ supply:
"How supply works:
There are two kinds of distances for supply purposes:
-MP distance: Equal to the MP cost for a 99 morale motorized unit to move from the supply source (Railhead, HQ, city) to the receiver
-hexagon distance: Number of hexagons which have to be crossed on the shortest way from the supply source to the receiver, regardless of hex control or type (=as the crow flies)
Any combat or FBD/NKPS unit can draw supplies from the HQ it is directly attached to, a city or a railhead. It is in most cases more efficient if the unit draws its MPs from the HQ instead of other sources.
Supply from HQ:
The following conditions have to be met to allow resupply from HQs:
1. MP distance unit-HQ: <21MPs (not taken into account if the hexagon distance is <2)
2. Hexagon distance unit-HQ: <6hexagons
3. MP distance eligible HQ-railhead: <101MPs
4. Hexagon distance HQ-railhead: <26hexagons
Therefore, the maximum distance from the railhead which still allows unit resupply is <31hexagons and <121MPs.

Supply from railhead:
If the conditions for HQ supply are not met, the unit attempts to draw supplies from the closest railhead if the following conditions are fulfilled:
1. MP distance unit-railhead <101MPs
2. Hexagon distance unit-railhead <21hexagons
The supply delivered is reduced to 20/MP distance for MP distance >20MPs.
HQs and supply:
During the logistic phase, the HQs serve as a supply source to directly attached units if all conditions are met. The units will be first resupplied from the dumps in the HQ unit. If the dumps are used, the HQ draws more supplies from the railhead and tries to satisfy the need of the units with it. If the supply situation is good, the HQ then stockpiles dumps for the next turns.
Cities:
HQs and units can draw supplies from cities if the hexagon distance is <2.
Special rules:
Airbase units, fortified zones and security units resupply individually (not from HQs) without penalties (new in 1.08.09)
"

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 66
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/8/2016 6:45:13 AM   
Dinglir


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You are right of course.

The manual states eligible COMBAT units.

I stand corrected.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 67
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/10/2016 9:03:51 AM   
Dinglir


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Turn twenty.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 68
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/10/2016 10:17:37 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn twentyone.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 69
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/12/2016 12:05:44 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn twentytwo.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 70
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/12/2016 1:04:09 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Congrats the auto loose situation looks far away now.


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RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/24/2016 4:32:52 PM   
Dinglir


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I have now received and returned turn twentythree to Pelton.

However, I have deicded to postpone the publishing of my reports for a few turns. This is not because I have any reason to distrust Pelton when he says he will not read this thread. Rather, I want to free myself from those nagging "what if he does read them" questions my paranoid brain keep asking me.

So to all you readers of this thread (sounds like a lot when I put it this way), you'll just have to wait a while for anything new to appear...

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 72
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/26/2016 9:53:56 PM   
teufelchen

 

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Good luck during the winter turns
I´m surprised about the U-2 successes. Seems to be worth investing in this cheep and mass aircraft.
Please dont let us wait for a long time until continuiung your report. Its very interesting.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 73
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/27/2016 9:30:26 AM   
Stelteck

 

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quote:


I have now received and returned turn twentythree to Pelton.

However, I have deicded to postpone the publishing of my reports for a few turns. This is not because I have any reason to distrust Pelton when he says he will not read this thread. Rather, I want to free myself from those nagging "what if he does read them" questions my paranoid brain keep asking me.

So to all you readers of this thread (sounds like a lot when I put it this way), you'll just have to wait a while for anything new to appear...


Too bad for us reader, but i understand that publishing reserve army position ready for offensive in advance is quite a risk as you enter the winter.


(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 74
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/28/2016 2:53:13 AM   
Dinglir


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Turn twentythree.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 75
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 10/28/2016 8:53:32 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Yes, fresh news !!

Thanks for the comparaison with my games it will help me evaluate my own campaign.
It is interesting as we do not think the same way relative to strategic decisions. Seeing differents mindset is fun.

From my point of view, you did a great job defending the southern objectives this year, so you know now where german will attack in 1942.
If i where him, as you annoy german with your offensive out of crimea, i would target first rostov then goind south/SE to isolate crimea from soviet soil.
Also, the more you will be able to hurt him south during winter (and gain space), the more you will be able to resist it. I would have sent all reserves armies south. I'am so predictable.

Of course, i'am not him nor you




< Message edited by Stelteck -- 10/28/2016 8:55:38 AM >

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 76
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/4/2016 9:59:57 PM   
Dinglir


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Teufelchen: Actually, the successes of my U-2VS's are due to the factthat Pelton has decided not to deal with them. Effectually, they fly with impunity whenever and whereever they want. Of course, other players will deal with them differently. I believe their main effect is to create a need for the Germans to deal with te threat from night bombers or face the losses. With the limited size of the Luftwaffe, this is a real dilemma for the Germans.

Stelteck: I am not so sure as to where Pelton will attack come spring. Actually, I think taht Pelton himself is yet undecided. It certainly goes well with his mentality of "taking what is offered". My job will be to offer as little as possible.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 77
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/4/2016 10:08:30 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn twentyfour.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 78
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/5/2016 11:53:42 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn twentyfive.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 79
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/6/2016 1:08:16 AM   
M60A3TTS


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There is no surprise at all that Pelton is willing to let you attack weak Axis troops from the Crimea. He will allow you to overextend yourself over the winter and then when good weather returns he can rail in whatever he needs to slice up and annihilate your defenders.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 80
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/6/2016 8:42:13 AM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

There is no surprise at all that Pelton is willing to let you attack weak Axis troops from the Crimea. He will allow you to overextend yourself over the winter and then when good weather returns he can rail in whatever he needs to slice up and annihilate your defenders.


Without giving to much of a spoiler alert, I can reveal that I have no intention of being north of the Crimean crossings when the spring arrives. My current plan is to simply inflict casualties on the Axis and tie down German units that Pelton could use elsewhere. Come late february or so, I will simply extract my divisions from this area, and defend the crossings instead.

So, if this is a German trap, I intend to steal the bait without springing the trap.

On the other hand, should Pelton decide not to keep sufficient troops in the area, I will send my own cavalry roaming into the German hinterland.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 81
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/8/2016 3:56:20 AM   
Dinglir


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Turn twentysix.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 82
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/8/2016 7:33:15 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Good job in surrounding some facist invaders comrade !!! Point them the way of the prisoners' camp.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 83
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/9/2016 6:59:54 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn twentyseven.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 84
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/12/2016 8:26:23 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn twentyeight.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 85
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/13/2016 12:52:03 PM   
Mamluke


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this AAR is awesome Dinglir! your pdfs are well done and organized, also pratical to read.

every day I came to this site to see if you post another one, wish you could post faster :P

it will be a hard, unpredictable battle come 1942, many other's AAR have lost Leningrad, but both Leningrad and Moscow? came 1942 your Manpower will start to hurt as you will get a lower manpower modifier.
could you please tell us how much manpower you gain per week before and after 1942?

I mostly play the Axis, But I would like to offer some advice
you can place Fortress region in your cities/ urban centers- closes to the front line, maybe you don't know all the fort rules so I will explaine just in case:

when not in contact with a enemy hex, Divisions and brigades will only build forts up to level 2, however with a fortress region you can build up to level 3 where ever you want (with exception to marshland, Maximun fort level for that hex is always level 2).

with a fortress region in cities / urban hexes, you can build up to level 4!! I Imagine, a single rifle division could muster 60-80 defensive CV in such a hex.

with Port provinces you could build up to level 5!! even in plains, that is one though nut to crack.

PS: I want to make a comment on your strategy on the 1st turns, (better late the never).

"I belive in the preservation of forces to be my optimal strategy..."

How Un-Soviet of you Comrade!

< Message edited by Mamluke -- 11/13/2016 12:56:18 PM >

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 86
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/13/2016 2:50:39 PM   
Dinglir


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Hi Mamluke.

It's great that you like this type of AAR. I actually enjoy writing it, and I do believe I play better (or less badly, if you prefer) by writing it. Writing an AAR like this forces me to consider what I do and why I do it.

About game speed, I am divorced and having my four year old daughter home every other week on top of a full time job. That does limit the amount of time I can spend on WitE. But I promise you this, if I win the Eurojackpot lottery next week, I will spend some more time playing in the future.....

Actually, I do not feel my population modifier suffer much because of the loss of Moscow. I still hold some 2500+ population factories by turn 27, and I produce 100.000+ men every turn. Moscow itself is only 90 population points (or 3600 men pr turn), as the Germans have taken no land behind it. The real hit is the 50 VP the Germans get every turn they hold on to the city (Bitter End Scenario).

My army is weak, because of a series of early war blunders on my part. I am only gaining strength slowly because I focus a lot on forcing attrition on the Germans - at this point in time I inflict as many AFV losses on the Germans as they are able to build, meaning that their Panzer forces are not currently gaining strength for the summer. They also have about 1500 guns less than at game start.

I have been very close to building a series of fortified zones already, but time has never really been right. Their fortification bonus is only really relevant once your other forces has built up to level two. During the summer and fall of 1941, I never felt I got there before my troops were overrun or outflanked. Now, in winter, I find that my limited reserves must go to my frontline divisions, meaning that the "STAVKA diggers" are very low on manpower and construction points. Becuase of this, I never really have gotten to level two except in the north. I probably should start building forts along the line here to ensure a better defense in the unlikely event that the Germans attack here come summer.

I did write about "preservation of force", I recall. Problem was that with running away fast early war, I soon ran out of terrain to run away from and this effectively caused the loss of both Leningrad and Moscow. If I were to start the game again today, I would certainly have made some changes to my early war strategy in the north and been more willing to trade manpower for time.

I know it sounds crasy but I like reading these AAR's as well. The game is now three turns ahead of the AAR's and I ususally read every report before posting it. My general feeling is "Wow that was a long time ago I wrote this."

But keep on enjoying the read.



_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Mamluke)
Post #: 87
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/20/2016 5:59:32 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn twentynine.

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_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 88
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/22/2016 4:46:58 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn thirty.

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_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 89
RE: Pelton vrs Dinglir, CG 41-45 Bitter End - 11/23/2016 5:58:31 PM   
Dinglir


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Turn thirtyone.

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_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 90
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