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Singapore Land Invasion - 6/27/2016 10:52:41 PM   
santino250

 

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Hi all,

trying to get my many forces into Singapore without suffering 20% losses... I have over 10 divisions and several corps, as well as misc. Arty's, tanks,

but on first entering I loose 25,000 troops.. mainly disruption...

Is there a better way to enter without such huge loss?? Should I be going in a couple of div's a day?

I even tried going in on move, instead of combat, no change....

Thanks

also, if you have high disruption, will you gain back you combat strength with rest?
Post #: 1
RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 6/27/2016 11:54:04 PM   
rms1pa

 

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quote:

trying to get my many forces into Singapore without suffering 20% losses... I have over 10 divisions and several corps, as well as misc. Arty's, tanks,

but on first entering I loose 25,000 troops.. mainly disruption...


auto shock attack when crossing the johore straights IE: river crossing.

plus your opponent even the AI is not as (insert adjective here) as Percivail.

rms/pa



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RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 6/28/2016 12:30:17 AM   
Anachro


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How does one order an autoshock attack when moving units so they will attack immediately upon entering a new hex?

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RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 6/28/2016 1:46:18 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

How does one order an autoshock attack when moving units so they will attack immediately upon entering a new hex?


You don't. Crossing the straits at Singers is considered a river crossing, therefore initiating a shock attack.

quote:

trying to get my many forces into Singapore without suffering 20% losses...


To help your units must be prepped for Singers, that includes one Corps HQ and a Command HQ. You'll probably still get one or more units with high disruption. The real key (and in my experience not always possible) is to try to get a 2:1 attack. Die rolls seem to make this difficult.

quote:

if you have high disruption, will you gain back you combat strength with rest?


You can't put units in rest mode at an enemy controlled base. You need to put them in reserve. They'll recover disrupted devices in this mode, but it'll take a while.



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RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 6/28/2016 3:12:54 AM   
wdolson

 

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If you have enough troops in a hex to get a decent beachhead you can move more in across a river without triggering a shock attack. As usual randoms are involved, but it's around 1:1 odds with the enemy (before terrain modification) I believe. In a large combat, the unit on the top of a stack will always take the brunt of an attack and that unit will be picked randomly. Sometimes the top couple of units will take heavy casualties.

No matter what you do a cross river/strait assault is going to be costly at least on the initial crossing.

Bill

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RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 6/28/2016 6:53:18 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

Moving across a River hex side will also cause the crossing unit to initiate a shock attack unless the moving side has a presence of friendly units that are already in the hex that meet a threshold of strength when compared to the non-moving side.


From the manual p190. I have seen what that threshold is somewhere, but can't find it at present. At any rate it is referencing if friendly troops are already present in the hex. As to crossing into the hex w/o friendly troops there already the only time I've noticed no shock attack is when the defender has little/no AV in the hex being assaulted, as when Japan crosses a river in China were there's only a Chinese HQ unit.

quote:

Should I be going in a couple of div's a day?


I think all that will do is have a couple of div's a day decimated as I don't think you'll be able to get to the above mentioned threshold that way.

At any rate shock attacks of 2:1 odds tend to have lower casualty rates, although it does still seem that the brunt will be on one unit. The way I look at it is that that odds level has lower losses even in deliberate attacks. Although at 2:1 odds a shock attack will lower fortifications by 2 levels, one for each odds level (see manual p197). Now I'm not sure the lower fort levels are factored in during that combat phase or for an attack say the next day, but maybe that has something to do with the lower losses.

In addition you need to try and get his supply down by bombing the place as this will put his defense at a disadvantage. Singers can be a tough nut to crack, especially if your opponent makes a concerted effort to keep it. Also tying up 10 Japanese divisions at that point in the game is a huge commitment, and will probably result in lost opportunities elsewhere.

Yes Singers is an important objective, but not to the detriment of Japanese expansion elsewhere. I say just let it lie on the vine a bit longer and take it with a smaller force after its been more isolated. IMHO I don't believe it can hold out forever, and its just not that important if its captured in February or April.

The above doesn't go for certain other objectives, such as oil/fuel centers.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 6
RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 6/28/2016 6:59:42 AM   
RogerJNeilson


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To paraphrase other Generals, don't knock on the door, kick it in.

Everything that is combat-worthy needs to move at one go and grab the initial crossing area, then you can move supports and artillery across. Disruption will be recovered as will disablements.

Moving smaller groups across piecemeal will result in them all being shredded piecemeal.

Best wishes

Roger

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RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 6/28/2016 1:58:22 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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quote:

ORIGINAL: santino250

Hi all,

trying to get my many forces into Singapore without suffering 20% losses... I have over 10 divisions and several corps, as well as misc. Arty's, tanks,

but on first entering I loose 25,000 troops.. mainly disruption...

Is there a better way to enter without such huge loss?? Should I be going in a couple of div's a day?

I even tried going in on move, instead of combat, no change....

Thanks

also, if you have high disruption, will you gain back you combat strength with rest?


Know the pain. In my ongoing (first) PBEM I have suffered crippling losses at Singers because I have handled things badly - not moving fast enough, not bringing enough logistical support, not sweeping and bombing enough and starting it too late, etc.

The time needed to rebuild shattered divisions forced me to shelf plans for expanding the Empire. Lessons learned for next time:

Speed is key. Singers start with low fort levels but the enemy can build-up forts quickly - this must be prevented to avoid heavy losses and disruption.

The "Mersing gambit" strategy is one way of doing that, but it is risky. Instead, I will take Kuantan (with the part of the 18th Div still at sea, covered by the BBs and LRCAP from Kota Bharu) and Singkawang (with troops at Cam Ranh Bay) as early as possible, with air support units ready to follow asap.

From there, I will sweep Singers heavily (sending at least one of the 45-plane Zero units from Formosa) and fly much recon as well. With Zeros and Oscars sweeping, enemy CAP should be weakened quickly.

Then I will send the Netties, Sallies and Lilies en masse (by that time, Alor Star and Georgetown should have been captured by 5th Division, giving with Kota Bharu three level-4 airfields in range) to bomb the Singers airfields to prevent fort construction. I will send badly needed air support units to the front line bases asap - there are many in Japan that will be purchased for PPs and rushed to Malaya in fast AKs / APs (I'm playing DBB where air support has been nerfed).

With the balance of Malaya captured, I will assemble my troops at Johore (combat troops only, no support troops in the first crossing), recombine subunits into divisions, put them in rest mode and stockpile supplies at the base to spoiling limits.
When ready, I will give move orders in combat mode and follow command and switch the air force to ground bombing to raise disruption of enemy ground units. Depending on fatigue, it may take two or three days to march to the river crossing - if the Singers air bases have been damaged enough by bombing, there should not be enough time for the enemy to repair them and switch to fort construction.

After the first shock attack, I will rest the assault force to get disruption down while keeping bombarding and bombing, with an eye on Singers airbase damage > switching bombers back to airfield attack if necessary. Then resume ground bombing and ground attacks until the enemy surrenders.

That's the plan - not sure what else can be done.

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RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 7/2/2016 5:08:55 PM   
SheperdN7


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I'd have to say that Singapore easily has the distinction of being the toughest nut to crack in the early conquests of the game, I play with historical turn off so I move KB there to provide air support for the ground troops and I also send in a few extra tank regiments from Manchuria as I would've been sending them into Burma anyways.. Honestly just take your time with it, when you capture the Philippines, use some of those units as a reinforcement. The main thing is don't become impatient and try to finish them in one swift blow, it won't work cause the Johore strait is absolute HELL. SL makes it WAY harder as you can't spam a hex with units but again, just be patient with it. Its not like Palembang where there is almost a "time limit" on when you should take it.

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RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 7/2/2016 11:47:05 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

I'd have to say that Singapore easily has the distinction of being the toughest nut to crack in the early conquests of the game, I play with historical turn off so I move KB there to provide air support for the ground troops and I also send in a few extra tank regiments from Manchuria as I would've been sending them into Burma anyways.. Honestly just take your time with it, when you capture the Philippines, use some of those units as a reinforcement. The main thing is don't become impatient and try to finish them in one swift blow, it won't work cause the Johore strait is absolute HELL. SL makes it WAY harder as you can't spam a hex with units but again, just be patient with it. Its not like Palembang where there is almost a "time limit" on when you should take it.


+1

And it depends on what your opponent brings to the fray.

quote:

To paraphrase other Generals, don't knock on the door, kick it in.


Again, agree, but where's the limit. Our friend above said he brought ten divisions and had a rough time. Ten divisions? Where'd he even get 'em from. I did seven two games ago and waltzed right through. No 18th division, no Aussie brigade, easy. Last game I brought six divisions and a bit less of the other goodies, only to find the AI brought all the toys that time. Got my nose bloodied.

So I guess what I'm saying, and others above, is not to overdo Singers as other objectives are more important. Gauge it, let it die on the vine a bit if you need to, then crush it like a rotten peach.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 10
RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 7/7/2016 11:40:28 AM   
elliser

 

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good,This I was looking for

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Post #: 11
RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 7/7/2016 1:23:08 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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Never, ever, send it components of a division in the first wave into Singapore. If you do, most will end up with almost complete disablement and be useless for weeks. I have the 25th HQ be followed by 3 or 4 whole divisions so they all get there at once. Then, you can 'move' your artillery, other support, and follow on divisions without a huge risk in getting high levels of disablement or disruption from shock attacks.

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RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 7/16/2016 9:35:34 PM   
rustysi


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+1

The only thing I'd add is that I do bring extra engineers in the initial shock attack. If they get bloodied... that's the cost of doing business.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to ny59giants_MatrixForum)
Post #: 13
RE: Singapore Land Invasion - 7/18/2016 4:07:01 PM   
pontiouspilot


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The most important thing to worry about from day 1 versus a human opponent is a full and proper blockade. You must shut the door on resupply and reinforcement. There is only 1 way to do this effectively and that is using surface assets. Those assets will be exposed so expect casualties. If opponent can get bulk of Malay army into Singapore with forts level 3 and over 100K in supply you better bring most of the IJA to take it!

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Post #: 14
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