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Sealion - 5/26/2016 10:25:30 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I'm playing Rasputitsa's Fall Gelb Mod, which starts the war in the beginning of 1940, and Hitler has kicked off the invasion of the Low Countries and France.

It is now April 1st. Belgium has fallen, The Netherlands is soon to follow, and two British divisions are trapped in the Netherlands. The rest of the British expeditionary force had to beat a hasty withdrawal from Belgium back to the UK. German Panzers and infantry are striking into France.

Going is slow because of the winter conditions. This is not blitzkrieg, the Panzers have been on occasion able to obtain minor penetrations where holes have been blown in the French line.

I do expect to be able to take France by mid June, leaving me with two options: plan for 1941 Barbarossa; Sealion.

I've never done Sealion in all my years of playing ToF, but if I can gain air superiority over the Channel and southern England, I'm going to try it.

I will have 4 months to prepare 3 infantry corps and 1 infantry division and 1 parachute battalion, gather together 10 amphibious points - for the first wave to embark on Sept 1, and land on Sept 7 as shown in the screencap.

The infantry division will be tasked with cutting the rail line between London and Southampton. Two corps will flank Southampton, and the Parachute battalion will land north of Southampton. If recon shows Southampton poorly defended, the third corps will land directly in the port area.

Using Rasputitsa's mod, I am able to build up a minor port capability on any hex where I can do an amphibious landing, but I don't think I'll need that UNLESS I can't take Southampton by Sept 14th. If needed I'll build up the small port on the landing hex where the division came in, but until then I'll rely on beachhead supply and total air superiority. But really, if I can't take Southampton by the 14th, the invasion has probably failed. I can't afford followup waves of amphibious units.







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RE: Sealion - 5/28/2016 3:23:37 PM   
Rasputitsa


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How much force can you afford to leave on the Eastern Front, the chance of Stalin attacking first has been reduced since v1.01, but I think it could still happen. I had it happen as I was engaged in finishing off France, but if you are deeply involved in amphibious operation across the Channel it could be even more interesting.



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RE: Sealion - 5/28/2016 5:37:36 PM   
gwgardner

 

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Indeed. I'm going to keep it 'realistic.' If I can get Southampton, I'll bring in two Panzer corps max, over a 6 week period. I'll have the two Panzer corps split, representing divisions, move those divisions one each week, combining into the corps when three are in the UK.

I note that when the AfrikaKorps went across the Med, it did so piecemeal like that, albeit in even smaller contingents.

I'll also bring across up to 12 infantry divisions.

The campaign will absolutely require total air dominance, with constant hammering of British defensive positions. (not to mention keeping British ships out of the Channel).

Given the very real Soviet threat (from what I've read, Stalin was convinced he could and would be aggressive agains the Germans very early on), To allow any more of the German army across the Channel would be suicidal. (not to mention logisitics, which I haven't considered in terms of supply - I'm assuming I can supply everything, with air dominance and Southampton)

Looking at the Wiki page on Sealion's OOB, the above is fairly close to what the Germans actually intended to send across.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 5/28/2016 5:42:10 PM >

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RE: Sealion - 5/28/2016 7:43:40 PM   
Rasputitsa


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There would be 'alternative supply' from ships and air, which I had reduced, but you may want to re-adjust that.


[SupplyFromShips]
Maximum = 10 ................ was 20
Range = 3

[SupplyFromBombers]
MaxValue = 5 ..................was 20
ChanceOfSupplyForBomberStrengthPoint = 10
SupplyPerBomberStrengthPoint = 0.5 ............was 1

You may want to go back to the text in the vanilla scenario if the reduction is too much. I reduced the figures because on the Eastern Front I had large numbers of Corps receiving 'alternative supply' from ships and air, but for the smaller number of units in 'Sea Lion' it may not be such an issue.

You can make any changes in the Germany_consts.ini file so it doesn't affect the other countries. I was thinking that I had over-done the changes because anything less than supply level 15 is practically useless, it just keeps a unit in being.

I have also tried to increase the likelihood of fleets action, so there may be a higher possibility of a naval reaction to invasion in the modded files, but that should be historic. If there had been an invasion attempt the RN would have appeared in the Channel in force, regardless of the cost. All of this has had little play testing, so may need further adjustment.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 5/28/2016 7:47:59 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to gwgardner)
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RE: Sealion - 6/6/2016 11:13:49 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I have now conquered France and the Low Countries, and just got the 'preparation for Sea Lion' event. Cost me optionally 300 PP. So I paid, but do not know what I get for that investment. I saw no increase in amphibious assault points, nor any additional troops added. Perhaps something will be added in subsequent terms. I hope so!

I did try to read the event file for that, but could not discern the result.

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RE: Sealion - 6/7/2016 6:50:29 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I have now conquered France and the Low Countries, and just got the 'preparation for Sea Lion' event. Cost me optionally 300 PP. So I paid, but do not know what I get for that investment. I saw no increase in amphibious assault points, nor any additional troops added. Perhaps something will be added in subsequent terms. I hope so!

I did try to read the event file for that, but could not discern the result.


I think the devs just use PP penalties to simulate a view of history, the German PP drop after the Polish campaign to simulate the inability of the Wehrmacht to undertake any other operations and this 300 PP penalty for 'Sea Lion' seems to be the same effect.

The scenario 'events' text looks quite impenetrable.

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 6/7/2016 6:54:02 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to gwgardner)
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RE: Sealion - 8/15/2016 1:00:05 PM   
AH4Ever


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So, GW were you able to get across to Southampton?

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RE: Sealion - 8/30/2016 10:19:24 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I got totally distracted by HOI4, Planar Conquest, and playtesting Strategic Command 3, so have not gotten back to ToF but intermittently.

I had stated above that I had taken France. Wrong. I had taken Paris, and thought I would be offered Vichy. However, Petain never took over the government and Churchill miraculously installed a stiff upper lip in all French officials, and both the French and British fight on.

It is now late June and I have had to fight for every inch of gain south of Paris. As a result, I have not yet been able to pull out three corps for refit, and I have only accumulated 1/3 of my amphibious needs. Worse, the air war has been much more difficult because I can't concentrate totally on taking out the RAF, and my air units only receive minimal reinforcements (since they are based in France, not yet conquered, so more difficult to reinforce there).

The way things are looking, OKW will soon issue a directive postponing SeaLion till mid-September, and if later than that then probably cancelled until 1941. Darned French and British have disrupted all my plans.

< Message edited by gwgardner -- 8/30/2016 10:22:24 PM >

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RE: Sealion - 9/1/2016 12:55:04 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

I got totally distracted by HOI4, Planar Conquest, and playtesting Strategic Command 3, so have not gotten back to ToF but intermittently.

I had stated above that I had taken France. Wrong. I had taken Paris, and thought I would be offered Vichy. However, Petain never took over the government and Churchill miraculously installed a stiff upper lip in all French officials, and both the French and British fight on.

It is now late June and I have had to fight for every inch of gain south of Paris. As a result, I have not yet been able to pull out three corps for refit, and I have only accumulated 1/3 of my amphibious needs. Worse, the air war has been much more difficult because I can't concentrate totally on taking out the RAF, and my air units only receive minimal reinforcements (since they are based in France, not yet conquered, so more difficult to reinforce there).

The way things are looking, OKW will soon issue a directive postponing SeaLion till mid-September, and if later than that then probably cancelled until 1941. Darned French and British have disrupted all my plans.



'No plan survives contact with the enemy.'

Carl von Clausewitz



_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 9
RE: Sealion - 9/1/2016 2:55:40 PM   
AH4Ever


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quote:

I think the devs just use PP penalties to simulate a view of history, the German PP drop after the Polish campaign to simulate the inability of the Wehrmacht to undertake any other operations and this 300 PP penalty for 'Sea Lion' seems to be the same effect.

The scenario 'events' text looks quite impenetrable.


Have you ever used Notepad++ to view and edit events? It was recommended by one of the "Devs"

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JJMC

The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is.

You weren't there Thursday... You MISSED it!

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RE: Sealion - 9/1/2016 3:07:10 PM   
AH4Ever


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Now that I have v1.05 working somewhat well, I have begun Barbarossa playing the UK & USA to see how early I can liberated France and if AI Germany can defeat AI USSR.

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JJMC

The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is.

You weren't there Thursday... You MISSED it!

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RE: Sealion - 9/24/2016 1:49:20 AM   
gwgardner

 

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It is July 1st, and finally France has capitulated. Sealion is back on schedule, with the plunder that was taken from France. The designated invasion forces are moving into position for refit and training. Amphibious assault units are being built/requisitioned, the skies are being heavily patrolled, as is the Channel.

Every effort will be made diplomatically to calm any notion on the part of the USSR that Germany has any further interest in the East. There will be no immediate push to bring Balkan or Eastern Europeon states into alignment with the AXIS.



< Message edited by gwgardner -- 9/24/2016 1:54:29 AM >

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RE: Sealion - 9/24/2016 6:20:27 AM   
AH4Ever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

It is July 1st, and finally France has capitulated. Sealion is back on schedule.

Every effort will be made diplomatically to calm any notion on the part of the USSR that Germany has any further interest in the East.


Meanwhile back in Leningrad, Vladimir Spiridonovich Putin reports for duty to the Народный комиссариат внутренних дел (Narodnyi Komissariat Vnutrennikh Del, NKVD for short).

_____________________________

JJMC

The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is.

You weren't there Thursday... You MISSED it!

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RE: Sealion - 10/23/2016 6:34:44 AM   
gwgardner

 

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Getting back to the game, after concentrating on playtesting elsewhere:

It's July 9. The battle for the Channel and air superiority in Southern England is underway. The UK AI has positioned most of its air units to the north, currently leaving only one fighter squadron near London. As of seven weeks prior to SeaLion, we have effective control over the skies of the invasion area, the Royal Navy has so far not moved into the Channel, and our bombers are hitting the garrison forces around Southampton relentlessly. As can be seen in the screenshot, we still have a long way to go in gathering sufficient amphibious transport.






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RE: Sealion - 10/23/2016 5:10:56 PM   
gwgardner

 

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It should be noted that I have completely sacrificed any attempt at Barbarossa for 1941, as I am putting all PPs into ongoing reinforcement, refit of my assault forces, air units, and subs. I have not invested a phennig in new armored units.

On a side note, I have invested all diplomatic points in persuading Sweden to join the AXIS. If I can obtain 6 more diplo points, I will increase pressure on Sweden, and hopefully bring her in. Then Narvik is mine.

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RE: Sealion - 12/7/2016 11:46:19 AM   
gwgardner

 

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The invasion was delayed one week due to planning mistakes (I forgot that a craft cannot move the turn of embarkation).

The AI failed to contest the Channel with the Royal Navy, as it was concentrated in the Mediterranean. Neither did the AI attack my shipping or fleet in the Channel from the air, as I had complete control of the skies. There were some UK fighters available to defend the skies over the invasion area, and the Luftwaffe bombers took heavy losses in the three weeks leading up to the assault. However, the Royal Air Force was denuded of any maritime attack capability.

The AI did defend Portsmouth to the best of its limited ability, although it did nothing at Dover. I am hesitant to claim that the AI concentrated its land forces at Portsmouth because that was where I concentrated my air bombardments.

My paratroopers were forced to shift their landings to the east of Portsmouth, due to heavy concentrations of AI forces north of the city.

The intended landing of one division to the east of Portsmouth, to cut off rail lines from the London area, was never made, again due to planning errors.

Otherwise, the port and surrounding areas was taken by the 9 division assault force. With the port secured, and the Royal Navy away on its jaunt to the south, I don't foresee immediate problems supporting the invasion force.




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RE: Sealion - 12/8/2016 2:44:02 PM   
Razz1


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Looks Great!

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RE: Sealion - 12/9/2016 5:07:14 PM   
gwgardner

 

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A bit too easy, I think. I'm going to start a new game with a different focus, now that I see the AI really doesn't do a good job defending against Sealion. The Royal Navy should have been there!

I had never done Sealion before. This time I'm going to try something else I've never done - getting or taking Sweden, Gibraltar and Malta.

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RE: Sealion - 12/10/2016 2:56:54 PM   
Rasputitsa


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'Fall Gelb' is a good basis for a game as more things are possible, early/late Barbarossa, Balkans, Scandinavia, Spain, Mediterranean, so many choices.

Later in the war the result was inevitable, but in 1940/41 the possibilities are endless.

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to gwgardner)
Post #: 19
RE: Sealion - 12/17/2016 1:35:31 PM   
Rasputitsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

A bit too easy, I think. I'm going to start a new game with a different focus, now that I see the AI really doesn't do a good job defending against Sealion. The Royal Navy should have been there!

I had never done Sealion before. This time I'm going to try something else I've never done - getting or taking Sweden, Gibraltar and Malta.


Looks like the addition of VPs to Plymouth/Southampton/Dover would increase their value for the AI and it might make more effort to defend them. The odds for the intervention of the Royal Navy could be increased in the 'consts_Great Britain' file, to make the naval response more aggressive, but that might make it more suicidal elsewhere where it's not appropriate.

A dedicated 'Sealion' scenario would help check this out and to create balance, the use of Amphibious Operations house rules would make the landing more difficult and need extra planning.

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to gwgardner)
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