Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

NATO Tank Competition Results

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Flashpoint Campaigns Series >> NATO Tank Competition Results Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
NATO Tank Competition Results - 5/17/2016 4:22:58 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/05/16/in-nato-tank-competition-u-s-comes-up-short-against-germany/

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
Post #: 1
RE: NATO Tank Competition Results - 5/23/2016 1:54:00 AM   
lwarmonger

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline
Yeah, it was kind of embarrassing to watch. That being said, you'll notice that the three best tank platoons were all in Leopards (the Poles brought Leos to this one), and the three European armies haven't been using their tankers as Saw gunners for the last decade.

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 2
RE: NATO Tank Competition Results - 5/23/2016 6:32:56 PM   
TheWombat

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lwarmonger

Yeah, it was kind of embarrassing to watch. That being said, you'll notice that the three best tank platoons were all in Leopards (the Poles brought Leos to this one), and the three European armies haven't been using their tankers as Saw gunners for the last decade.


I suspect you're on to something. The US Army has been de-emphasizing heavy combat units and mechanized combat since the end of the Gulf War, and the experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq have focused it on a much different style of combat. While some of this was undoubtedly necessary--you gotta fight the war you've got--as usual it all went too far and now we seem to have a military mostly configured for one particular mission at the expense of what is arguably a more important mission in the grand scheme of things. The Europeans haven't had to stomp around deserts and mountains chasing Taliban and their ilk much, so they've been able to focus on what armored units traditionally stay focused on.

Of course, if history is any guide, the USA will eventually swing back and get back up to speed in conventional warfare. We can just hope there's no pressing crisis that will catch the Army in between war fighting styles.

(in reply to lwarmonger)
Post #: 3
RE: NATO Tank Competition Results - 5/29/2016 1:00:33 PM   
lwarmonger

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat

I suspect you're on to something. The US Army has been de-emphasizing heavy combat units and mechanized combat since the end of the Gulf War, and the experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq have focused it on a much different style of combat. While some of this was undoubtedly necessary--you gotta fight the war you've got--as usual it all went too far and now we seem to have a military mostly configured for one particular mission at the expense of what is arguably a more important mission in the grand scheme of things. The Europeans haven't had to stomp around deserts and mountains chasing Taliban and their ilk much, so they've been able to focus on what armored units traditionally stay focused on.

Of course, if history is any guide, the USA will eventually swing back and get back up to speed in conventional warfare. We can just hope there's no pressing crisis that will catch the Army in between war fighting styles.


We're working on it. There was a school of thought that said "all you need is artillery and Javelins... tanks are obsolete". Then that school of thought went to NTC and was DESTROYED. Then President Obama said we weren't going to use DPICM anymore. Now we're discovering that the last 13 years have been more damaging to our armies ability to fight a conventional war than Vietnam was. Iraq and Afghanistan sucked up a larger proportion of our combat power than Vietnam did, and we have lost a great deal of institutional knowledge in the last decade.

(in reply to TheWombat)
Post #: 4
RE: NATO Tank Competition Results - 5/29/2016 7:37:52 PM   
TheWombat

 

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lwarmonger


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat

I suspect you're on to something. The US Army has been de-emphasizing heavy combat units and mechanized combat since the end of the Gulf War, and the experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq have focused it on a much different style of combat. While some of this was undoubtedly necessary--you gotta fight the war you've got--as usual it all went too far and now we seem to have a military mostly configured for one particular mission at the expense of what is arguably a more important mission in the grand scheme of things. The Europeans haven't had to stomp around deserts and mountains chasing Taliban and their ilk much, so they've been able to focus on what armored units traditionally stay focused on.

Of course, if history is any guide, the USA will eventually swing back and get back up to speed in conventional warfare. We can just hope there's no pressing crisis that will catch the Army in between war fighting styles.


We're working on it. There was a school of thought that said "all you need is artillery and Javelins... tanks are obsolete". Then that school of thought went to NTC and was DESTROYED. Then President Obama said we weren't going to use DPICM anymore. Now we're discovering that the last 13 years have been more damaging to our armies ability to fight a conventional war than Vietnam was. Iraq and Afghanistan sucked up a larger proportion of our combat power than Vietnam did, and we have lost a great deal of institutional knowledge in the last decade.



Your last observation, about the effects of Iraq and Afghanistan, should be pounded into our policy makers. We don't think about it like we thought about Vietnam because there is no draft, and we can more conveniently forget about the men and women we've sent overseas, and we can ignore the different levels of cost much more conveniently. And the press, like it or not, was a lot more active in the 1960s and 1970s in hound-dogging the government and keeping tabs on things. Today, not so much, and that too plays a role in public awareness.

Sometimes it seems that the people making decisions in Washington learn everything they know about defense issues from, um, games. And not good games like this one!

(in reply to lwarmonger)
Post #: 5
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Flashpoint Campaigns Series >> NATO Tank Competition Results Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.117