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Escape from Velikiye Luki

 
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Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/12/2016 5:42:05 PM   
DoubleDeuce


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I have been looking at redoing this scenario but with the Germans deployed into half-squads, maybe not all 5 squads, but perhaps 3-4 of them. The reason being is the Germans need to avoid contact/combat anyway so the 1/2 firepower for half-squads would not really be a big hindrance to them. It will also allow them to 'find' the Russians, allowing the others to skirt around them and on to the Exit Hexes.

I am also going to test out some deployment screen lines using multiple zones for the Russians. The ASL scenario setup says they can deploy anywhere on boards 2 and 3 but my guess is that the TotH AI is likely to bunch them up among the highest TEM terrain, which could make it easier for the Germans to slip through.

Thoughts, comments?

< Message edited by Double Deuce -- 5/12/2016 5:46:51 PM >


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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/12/2016 7:10:54 PM   
ArmyEsq

 

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I like both your ideas. Very sound.

I look forward to playing it!

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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/13/2016 1:38:30 AM   
UP844


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One squad deployed as two HS should suffice: the more units you have, the more you are subject to OOC, and the last thing the German needs is being unable to move (but see later ).

I think the most difficult thing to achieve in this scenario is having the Russian react properly. I suppose the lack of any VP hex makes this task especially hard, and I have no clear idea about how to solve the issue.

If the AI attitude is set to "HOLD" or "NOT DEFINED", AI-controlled Russian will not move at all, even if Germans show up in the village and start a firefight with any unit they meet. I did this twice and I expected to be overwhelmed by Russian, but none of them appeared and no "infantry marching" sound was heard. I ultimately lost anyway, because I was unable to exit in time.

If the AI attitude is set to "ADVANCE", they AI will start its usual rush to the Exit hexes starting from its first turn even if no German units have been sighted. I managed to arrive at the Exit hexes first (thanks to the leaders and a liberal use of Double Time) and then I wiped out incoming Russians until I get tired and exited all of my units. On another occasion, I set up the Germans in the top right corner of the map, out of sight from the Russians, and on the first Russian Movement Segment I hard them moving en masse.

I also tried giving VPs to the Russians for eliminating German units, but the AI does not seem interested at all in gaining VP this way .

The addition of some AI-only units with special orders could be helpful, even though I don't like too much this approach.


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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/13/2016 2:00:00 AM   
DamienThompson

 

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I think setting a few units to manually defend specific choke points may help, or placing some sort of additional victory hexes on the map to guide the AI to where to move units to may work.

Essentially the AI is never going to be as sneaky as a human player. A combination of strategies is needed because as soon as you work out what the AI is doing its easy to outmanouver.

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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/13/2016 6:10:16 AM   
DoubleDeuce


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UP844

One squad deployed as two HS should suffice: the more units you have, the more you are subject to OOC, and the last thing the German needs is being unable to move (but see later ).

I have been testing it with 3 of the 5 German squads deployed into half-squads at the start but you are correct, the OoC chances will be greatly increased. Anything that slows the Germans down makes it extremely hard for them to win but it would be nice to get the Russians to react more aggressively. I'm going to keep trying some things out, see how it goes.


< Message edited by Double Deuce -- 5/13/2016 6:12:06 AM >


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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/14/2016 8:28:10 PM   
DoubleDeuce


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Another thing I was looking at is the TotH conversion Ricomise did uses a Night Vision Range of 2 but the scenario card I have says the NVR is 6. That's a pretty big difference and can affect the ability of the Germans to sneak through. I wonder if there are differences between versions? I think that SL scenario was released multiple times. I have the ASL Scenario H copy, released in an an Annual, General Magazine or something like that but it was also re-released in Beyond Valour as ASL Scenario 129 iirc which I do not have.

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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/14/2016 11:29:36 PM   
UP844


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I have both SL scenario 6 and ASL scenario H.
Apart from the different NVR (in SL, NVR = DR at the start of every Game Turn), there are few differences:
- In SL, Germans have 24 concealment counters he can use to deceive the Russians
- Germans must exit 3 squads in SL, 8 VP in ASL (IIRC, 1 squad = 2 VP, 1 Leader or HS = 1 VP)
- Snow camouflage clothing is an optional rule in SL (but there is no provision for this in TotH )
- In SL Russian units may only move with a leader, or if they see a German unit; I think ASL night rules take care of this with no need for SSRs.
- Scenario length is 10 turns in SL, 9.5 turns in ASL, but this does not make any difference: if the German has not fulfilled his Victory conditions in his Player Turn, it has lost; there is no point in playing the Russian game turn.

< Message edited by UP844 -- 5/14/2016 11:32:05 PM >

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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/14/2016 11:48:37 PM   
DoubleDeuce


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I think I have the Russian deploy zones set up pretty well, they cover the entire board with 2 thin screen lines BUT anytime I try to set one or more Russians to Advance (AI is set to Hold) to try and get them to move on known German units as they appear, they immediately run to the German Exit hexes.

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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/15/2016 12:18:30 AM   
UP844


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The "Exit hex race" still seem to be very popular with the AI: the only scenario partially immune is "The Puma Prowls". Here, for some reason, AI Russians run forward to their Exit hexes (Germans do not, however ). On the other hand, this is the only scenario I recently tried that has Exit hexes for both sides (there is at least another - I do not remember its title - portraying a delaying action).

I have the same problem with "Bucholz Station": all the US units which do not see German units run to the exit hexes and pile up there. I think I have found a solution by adding VPOs on the main road: when some of them become controlled by Germans, US units counterattack. Theoretically, you could lay down a line of VPO straddling the whole map to activate the Russians, but this solution would also provide a human Russian player with a wonderful detection device.

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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/18/2016 9:21:14 PM   
DoubleDeuce


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I'm putting this redesign on hold for now and working some other stuff.

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RE: Escape from Velikiye Luki - 5/18/2016 10:30:54 PM   
genesismwt


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I tried the VL solution for The Puma Prowles before Update 1, to no avail. With Update 1, I have only seen the Russians come out and play. The Germans just sit in their starting hexes. I don't know why the Russians are the only ones to go for their exit hexes. I might start over from scratch.

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