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Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 5:05:18 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
After a two year hiatus from WITE I am returning to the fold. In this game I will be playing German against David (sillyflower) as Soviet. The game will commence soon after 1.08.09 becomes available. David is most welcome to comment for now. But as soon as hostilities begin he will not have permission to visit here. Enthusiasm is high on my part for this game but so is the rust factor me. Hopefully I won’t make any fatal mistakes before I get back up to speed.

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Game Settings

Sudden Death 41CG scenario
Server game
Locked HQ Support
Full FOW
Non Random Weather
Standard Blizzard
No +1 to Soviet Combat Odds

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House Rules

No Para drops at all
No bombing of HQ's unless stacked with a ground unit
No Night Bombing of Airfields

No naval invasions before November 1941, none outside the 1939 Soviet borders before January 1943 In addition if Sevastopol is either isolated, or in German hands, none west of the Crimea, which reflects the scope for air/naval interdiction not really reflected in the game. (This is Pelton’s rule)

Additional Sudden Death rules for 1941. Used to help prevent unrealistic Soviet retreat strategies in summer 1941 and to prevent unrealistic German retreats prior to and during the early blizzard period.

German SD victory check is made at the beginning of the German 4th December 1941 turn. If the German VP total is equal to or greater than 243 VP they win an Auto Victory.
Soviet SD victory check is made at the Beginning of the Soviet 1st January 1942 turn. If the German VP total is equal to or less than 205 VP then the Soviets win an Auto Victory.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the Conditions of the Sudden Death scenario (Lost Battles) in case you don’t have them.

Turns: 211
This campaign is a variant of the 1941-45 Campaign - Alt VC260 campaign, with the only change being additional sudden death victory conditions. The victory conditions are the same as that in the Alt VC260 campaign with the addition of three sudden death victory condition checks made during the campaign. The checks are made at the beginning of the first turn of April 1942, April 1943 and April 1944. If during one of these checks, a player is determined to have met their Sudden Death victory conditions, the game will immediately end and declare a Decisive Victory for the winner.

April 1942
German Victory if victory points are >=242 Soviet Victory if victory points are <=191

April 1943
German Victory if victory points are >=255 Soviet Victory if victory points are <=188

April 1944
German Victory if victory points are >=210 Soviet Victory if victory points are <=150

The Alt VC260 campaign victory conditions used in this campaign as well are:
• The Axis Decisive Victory level (Automatic Victory) is 260 instead of 290.
• The Soviet Major Victory timeframe ends on 31 March 1945 (instead of 31 May 1945) and the Soviet Minor Victory timeframe between 1 April 1945 and 30 June 1945.
• A draw occurs if Germany does not surrender by 1 July 1945 and the Axis has less than
142 victory points.
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'Deus le Volt!'
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Post #: 1
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 8:10:38 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2063
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
Welcome back!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Game Settings
Non Random Weather
Standard Blizzard
No +1 to Soviet Combat Odds


This game settings will give a swinging game! For sure I will read it.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 2
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 8:55:59 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
Thanks. Looking forward to the battles :)

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Post #: 3
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 9:18:13 AM   
821Bobo


Posts: 1763
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: online
Subscribed

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 4
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 10:05:52 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 2482
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Loches France (but properly part of England)
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As I wrote elsewhere recently, only a complete idiot would take Michael on

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web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 5
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 10:13:18 AM   
821Bobo


Posts: 1763
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: online
I would

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 6
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 10:31:41 AM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 942
Joined: 12/20/2013
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May as well join the party. Never seen Mr M's work.

I'd play any of you guys, but I'm lazy and don't like to work hard on the turns, therefore PBEM only, so I can fix my bonehead/fumble-finger mistakes via the save/save over/reload routine.

If that's not sacrelidge (that's what it sounds like, but misspelled) enough, then non-random weather, mild blizzard, no movement FOW. The easy way.

If you guys are really lucky, .09 will come out right quick and maybe I'll keep quiet.

err, :) almost forgot.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 7
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 10:49:11 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
If I can get thru the first few turns without any major cockups I will be happy. I am not the well oiled machine I was two years ago. I have to regain my touch. That will take some time.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

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Post #: 8
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 11:11:57 AM   
Manstein63


Posts: 667
Joined: 6/30/2010
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Never had the privilege of playing you Michael but hope to in the future, but I have had and am still having the pleasure of playing your opponent and you will need to get up to speed quite quickly as M. Sillyflower is quite formidable no matter which side you play. Looking forward to this AAR good luck to both of you.

Manstein63

_____________________________

'There is not, nor aught there be, nothing so exalted on the face of god's great earth, as that prince of foods. THE MUFFIN!!!'

Frank Zappa (Muffin Man)

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 9
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 6:39:16 PM   
RKhan


Posts: 315
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From: My Secret Bunker
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T


No Night Bombing of Airfields




I have not seen this before. Is it considered a problem now?

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RKhan

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Post #: 10
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 8:55:55 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 2482
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Loches France (but properly part of England)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

If I can get thru the first few turns without any major cockups I will be happy. I am not the well oiled machine I was two years ago. I have to regain my touch. That will take some time.


But no Russia player has ever lasted more than a few turns against you apart from Ketza who just managed to avoid surrendering until early '42.

for those of you who missed it Michael recently posted that he found every game as german to be a cakewalk.I was 1 of those flattened cakes.

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 11
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 9:16:14 PM   
smokindave34


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Joined: 1/15/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower


But no Russia player has ever lasted more than a few turns against you apart from Ketza who just managed to avoid surrendering until early '42.




I have to defend my honor here....I survived into early '42 against MT back in the day although this was mostly due to me being too stubborn to accept defeat and less due to my actual skill as Soviets (am I actually boasting about losing badly here?)

Will you be starting a Soviet AAR so we can view the action from both sides?

< Message edited by smokindave34 -- 4/21/2016 9:18:09 PM >

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 12
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 10:17:22 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
quote:

But no Russia player has ever lasted more than a few turns against you apart from Ketza


That was actually Kamil, and we called the game a draw as we both ran out of WITE steam, that was my last game.

@smokindave I remember our game well. My first match review of WITE http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2907508



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Post #: 13
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 11:23:50 PM   
smokindave34


Posts: 842
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:


@smokindave I remember our game well. My first match review of WITE http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2907508




Ouch! This was even worse than I remember. Never good to be defending Gorky in October of '41.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 14
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/21/2016 11:51:24 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
Hard to believe it was over 4.5 years ago.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to smokindave34)
Post #: 15
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/22/2016 9:16:58 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 2482
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Loches France (but properly part of England)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower


But no Russia player has ever lasted more than a few turns against you apart from Ketza who just managed to avoid surrendering until early '42.




I have to defend my honor here....I survived into early '42 against MT back in the day although this was mostly due to me being too stubborn to accept defeat and less due to my actual skill as Soviets (am I actually boasting about losing badly here?)

Will you be starting a Soviet AAR so we can view the action from both sides?



Sorry to have traduced you Dave, but I was relying on earlier propaganda sent to me from Goebbel's australian office. However, it would have been over well before the end of summer '41 if you had been playing with alt VC. It must have been very painful to see those old screenshots, so I hope you have a good therapist.

I will do an AAR. It will be a bit different from the norm or my current one. A lot shorter for one thing

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to smokindave34)
Post #: 16
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/22/2016 4:13:33 PM   
ericv

 

Posts: 325
Joined: 1/21/2012
Status: offline
The new monster vs the old monster. That's going to be interesting. :-)


With what happened during implementation of the latest patches, I certainly hope that 1.08.09 gets tested decently, one of them or bothm can suddenly find themselves playing an unplayable hand..
anyway best of luck to you both.






(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 17
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/22/2016 4:39:23 PM   
charlie0311

 

Posts: 942
Joined: 12/20/2013
Status: offline
Hi Eric,

These are public betas, the most efficient, and fastest way to test new patches/fixes. There are not enough people available to do private beta, meaning, to have the next edition adequately tested. We're the guinea pigs, c'est la guerre!

(in reply to ericv)
Post #: 18
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 4/23/2016 1:50:13 PM   
HITMAN202


Posts: 714
Joined: 11/10/2011
Status: offline
Don't be too quick to emotionally concede Sillyflower. In the last + 1 years of AAR's matching top players, I've not seen a Ruskie get embarrassed. You will not be the first. That's unless you back or vertigo flairs up.

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WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

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Post #: 19
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/8/2016 1:33:55 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 2482
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Loches France (but properly part of England)
Status: offline
I've just accepted Michael's challenge, so I say adieu to this thread. At least I expect my nightmare won't last long

signed

Whingeing Pom

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web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 20
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/10/2016 10:25:13 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
T1 22nd June 1941 (Clear)

Nothing too outlandish to start with. A fairly stock opening after such a long break. Still it’s not entirely watertight, some things went wrong. If the Soviets get lucky with MP’s they might break some pockets. I only sent 1 Pz and 2 Mot divisions to AGS. This opening attempts to minimise the number of routed escapee’s from encirclement. Hence the foray in to the swamps with motorised units. I will post some stats next turn. Its good to be back playing this again.





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 21
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/10/2016 2:02:25 PM   
mktours

 

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Joined: 5/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

T1 22nd June 1941 (Clear)

Nothing too outlandish to start with. A fairly stock opening after such a long break. Still it’s not entirely watertight, some things went wrong. If the Soviets get lucky with MP’s they might break some pockets. I only sent 1 Pz and 2 Mot divisions to AGS. This opening attempts to minimise the number of routed escapee’s from encirclement. Hence the foray in to the swamps with motorised units. I will post some stats next turn. Its good to be back playing this again.



I think that sending an extra Pz corps to south to lock 16A will be a better deal. We could view it in this way: Soviet will certainly rail 16A to the land bridge, and suppose it is willing to sacrifice it to slow the Germany advance, then it may cost more delay comparing with having the 16A killed in the south.
I didn't know why you try to kill the routed units? from my experience as SHC, those units are useless in the early stage, with the soviet NM stay at 40 in the first 2 turns, they are more like burden than useful asset, it will take ages before they return to combat ready.
Still, it is better to postpone Minsk and Lvov pockets for one turn, that way, the doomed units will suck huge replacement: men, weapons, supply, fuel, trucks, for example, a div is 8000 men if cut off, will be 11000 if in supply. It will cost 30000 more armaments to the Soviet side. In T1, soviet Armaments will be 1190000, Motor pool will be 80k. All units got their Cv down (because of lacking trucks and replacement all around). You could have a check of my opening. Link: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3890124
As for Capturing Moscow, it isn't difficult to get your Pzs from South to Moscow in 1.08, I pocketed Moscow in T13.

< Message edited by mktours -- 5/10/2016 2:07:48 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/10/2016 10:04:56 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
I have already made comment on the ploy of not closing pockets on T1 in sillyflower's AAR v BrianG. I won't repeat myself here.

As for 16th Army, IMO too many extra units are required from AGC to trap them and pull of the Lvov pocket. It's just not my MO at this point.

IMO the Soviet side (as of 1.08.09) is still the stronger if using the stock blizzard.

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Post #: 23
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/10/2016 10:14:42 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1741
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stock blizzard will make for an interesting read if the game gets that far. The non-random weather will make for a tough/long summer for the soviets as its all clear weather auto until october, having seen alot of 1.08+ games now the soviets not having a single mud turn very well might just decide the game as we are seeing very close matches with both players being close to the same skill. An the single mud turn over the summer is often one of the few things saving the soviets from more massive losses. Time will tell will be watching both the AARs on this with interest.

One thing of note tho is stock blizzard = less Soviet guards units....so it might not be as huge a swing really...not sure as I havent seen many games go forward with stock blizzard.

< Message edited by chaos45 -- 5/10/2016 10:17:20 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/10/2016 11:59:00 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
I am hopeful David (sillyflower) and I can have a return match under the same conditions once this game is done, unless some future patch warps the status quo.

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'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

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Post #: 25
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/11/2016 10:22:30 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
Well the TOE bug has killed this game. We are going to start again. Will post a new T1 when its done. Groan.

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'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

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Post #: 26
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/12/2016 12:11:40 PM   
ericv

 

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A nice way to start playing again after so long.

On the bright side, you get to do the things over that went wrong. Hopefully this gets patched soon.

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Post #: 27
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/12/2016 3:58:22 PM   
HITMAN202


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MT, what do you mean TOW bug ??? I suspect Sillyflower is doing some ledgerdemain behind the scene. He is a tricky dude, as we all know.

This will be a fun daily browse. It's special to have 2 top players that excel playing either side. I think MT is the top Axis expert; Sillyflower in the top 5 Soviet. Who'll win ?? It will be tough to beat a top Ruskie, but MT has shown remarkable strategic and tactical skills with the Germans in the past. Also I think he's very hungry. It could be bad for my friend. (MT, I'm going to call you out. you've got to call D. Mason by his avatar, Sillyflower. If not I think his stamen will dry up and you'll have a weak opponent. Ms. M can only accomplish so much.)

< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 5/12/2016 5:09:27 PM >


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RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/13/2016 4:25:21 PM   
HITMAN202


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It will be interesting to see if MT's repeat Turn1 is any different. MT had 16 routed units outside of pockets on the entire front (those which could be counted on his screen shot.) That number is high, at least for a player of MT's skill whose main first turn strategy was to limit it. No units routed into the Lvov pocket, so I think that's what MT was referring to when he wrote "some things went wrong."


Three observations.

1) MT is not pushing AGN infantry quickly to Pskov.

2) Massed a huge group of Pz's around Minsk.

3) Possibly set up a turn two pocket in eastern Pripet with an unusually placed Pz on the southern rim of the large AGC pocket and another strangely placed Pz NE of Rovno.

_____________________________

WITE is a good addiction with no cure.

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Post #: 29
RE: Hell bent on Lebensraum IV - 5/13/2016 11:02:07 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 3858
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: online
My swamp dwellers have quite a bit to do with the meta game, based on my recollection of my first game with Silly a few years back.

_____________________________

'Deus le Volt!'
------------------

(in reply to HITMAN202)
Post #: 30
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