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It's totally SAD

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It's totally SAD - 4/17/2016 7:48:33 PM   


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I'm reading the forums over and over again - Veteran Players telling those poor hapless nOobinskis how to play their Air Forces.
Let's examine some of these strategies:
1. My Personal favorite : put all your air units in reserve turn 1 to build their morale. Oh yeah that's a winner. Some units need to go into reserve turn 1 - that I will respect, Fighter units can be spared, they're really ineffective in the fighter role if morale prevents them from reacting and causes em to suffer badly when they do. Recon units - really think its a good idea to blind yourself when you're being attacked ? Transports and Long range Bombers, When youre getting pocketed I don't feel that disbanding the supply transports is the best approach. Level Bombers and Tac Bombers. ok this is the key. When fighting as Russian remember youre not fighting a whole army you're fighting 30 units - that's it, plain and simple. The fact that each unit is named Rambo and runs like an Antelope is a minor setback. Look at your arsenal and try to determine what you have that can have any sort of impact on these cretins. Yup you got it - Air Units - Specifically Tac Air and Level Bombers the Critical Units in the first few turns are the SU tac Bombers they have the range and numbers- therefore you have to get em into air units asap in force directly in front of Rambo... So why on earth would you send your entire Air Force to reserve turn 1 ? Yup drugs... only possible answer cus anyone that dumb couldn't read the rulebook anyhow.
2. Disband all your SAD units as soon as possible... SERIOUSLY !??! What exactly is a SAD unit ? It's an Ad Hoc or generic unit like a combat command. Usually a multi tasker for local command. These are some of your best formations I stack em with my my best Tac Air units. They accumulate tons of really nice kills. So why on earth would anyone disband them ? Let's examine some rules real fast. Soviet Air Group Unit Designation Changes
Certain Soviet air group units may be re-designated as follows:
„h Air Group units with IL-2 model aircraft will be re-designated as ShAP
„h Air Group units with U-2/R-Z model aircraft will be re-designated as LBAP (10% probability) or as NBAP (90% probability)
„h SBAP groups with no SB model aircraft can be re-designated to BAP (50% probability)
„h TBAP groups with no TB or Pe-8 model aircraft can be re-designated to DBAP (50% probability)
„h DBAP groups with no DB,IL-4,Pe-8,Yer,or TB aircraft models can be re-designated to BAP (50% probability)
„h Soviet Air Battalion air group units (with "/" in the name) can be re-designated as air regiments (10% probability)
„h SAP (composite Soviet air regiments) can be re-designated after March 1943 as a specific air regiment depending on aircraft model (80% probability)
Get the picture ? By March 43 the SU units have phased out in favor of the IL2 the units are all SHaD. Ok Beginning in March 43 you get automatic redesignation of all your SAD units 80% probability.
9.2.3. Creation of Soviet Guards Air Units
Soviet Air Base units (representing Soviet Air Divisions) can become Guard units if their attached air group units collectively destroy a certain number of aircraft or ground elements. The criterion is based on the year as follows:
„h 1941 - 400 destroyed aircraft and/or ground elements
Gary Grigsby's War in the East Manual v0.67 Oct 03, 2013
„h 1942 - 600 destroyed aircraft and/or ground elements
„h 1943-45 - 1200 destroyed aircraft and/or ground elements
Game Play Info: VVS and SAD type Soviet air base units are not eligible to become Guard units.

So the myth of SAD units not converting to Gaurds is done. You will be building Airbases as the game progresses and can rotate units to Gaurds ShaD units prior to 1943. Remember its the base that cant convert to Gaurds prior to 43 not the individual units and units within SAD bases convert to gaurds just fine.
Heres a nice little Screenie of my SAD air units in jan 42. I can convert them to Bomber, Fighter or ground attack units in March 43 simply by assigning the relative units. Don't destroy your best AIR base Units... that's just SAD

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Hermann -- 4/17/2016 7:54:51 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: It's totally SAD - 4/17/2016 9:03:18 PM   

Posts: 2990
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From: Sweden
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This is why:

After 01 February 1942, there is a fifty percent chance that SAD (composite air division) air
base units will be disbanded at a rate of not more than three per turn. Attached air group units
in disbanded SAD air base units will be automatically transferred to the Soviet national air
reserve (8.4).

It's OK to use the SAD bases until then (Feb/42). Some players prefer not to use a base that is going to disband.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 2
RE: It's totally SAD - 4/17/2016 10:28:43 PM   


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That's irrelephant. Getting killed is one thing - hurrikurri is senseless and the designers need to code that properly to " unused " SAD bases

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 3
SAD bases disbanding - 4/17/2016 11:44:31 PM


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I agree with your first point, I only send the battered air units to reserve.

I did mention to you in a previouse post about SAD bases disbanding.

I disband a few on T1, so that that the manpower can be used to fill up the other non SAD bases.

The remainer I set to 50% TOE I disband as and when, most of the manpower sits in the pool I notice under air support, but the general support and AA can be used elsewhere.

I only use two of them, as there are more than enough space on the non SAD airbases, until quite a few turns after you can start building air units.

< Message edited by -- 4/17/2016 11:48:07 PM >

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 4
RE: It's totally SAD - 4/18/2016 12:51:56 PM   


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Joined: 1/21/2012
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They autodisband eventually, but I have to agree with you. Disbanding them is a total waste of AP's. The only thing a player should disband are the 7 or so superfluous Air HQ's, because they do not autodisband, and the motorcycle regiments, for the trucks. That's it.

Just wheel them to the back. Set them to 50 % Toe and they will all be autodisbanded before the end of march 1942. I don't think they will convert to anything other. So there is no saving them. But like hjones6464 says, there are more then enough airbase units.

Conserve the AP for rifle brigades in 1942 or building sapper regiments. Just the only sure way to win for the SHC no matter the opponent.

by the way, your air results are really impressive, but someone else noted on the forum a couple of years ago: "no matter how much you tinker with the red airforce, its effects on the total outcome are almost negligible" or something like that. It is my interpretation of his words anyway. It's in the dropbox file with the best WitE forum posts, and I have to agree with it.
Just having the IL-2 with fighters when you start getting offensive as SHC is all that matters. Disbanding the Red Airforce, except VVS and Recon, and only start rebuilding the Red Airforce in the summer of 1942, works just fine as well.

Against a decent german opponent, your losses will otherwise just be extreme with little to show for them.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 5
RE: It's totally SAD - 4/18/2016 8:20:24 PM   


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Actually im in a campaign atm as soviets think its august 1943. Got held up all along the front with no hope of breaking through. So I concentrated the entire red airforce in a small sector and started bombing. The German player was forced to withdraw his air support and his Ground units were taking 400 to 600 casualties per turn for 3 turns before I launched my attack. The results were devastating. Nothing can stand up to a concentrated air attack German Air Units can break the Leningrad defenses like butter and the Red Air Force can crack any line if they gain superiority. Its getting them bled in and skilled early that makes or breaks you - the 1941 limit is 400 kills to go Gaurds ( 100 per counter ) if you get that early you can rock em. Ive another game that could've been a total rout except for the Russian Air force - same one ive been posting those results from - The guy literally concentrated his entire army between Vitebsk and Veliky Luki and drove straight at Moscow on a 3 hex front. I lost Moscow but just barely And Held the corridor. It sounds bad for me but ive inflicted 1 million german casualties to 3.5 million Russian and were at 3700 to 10000 on air casualties. Ive got 40 Gaurds units again most of my attacks would've failed without the air support.

(in reply to ericv)
Post #: 6
RE: It's totally SAD - 4/18/2016 8:22:34 PM   


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Key thing though is it's fun as hell.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 7
RE: It's totally SAD - 4/19/2016 9:28:25 AM   


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1 million against 3.5 million is acceptable imo. and yeah, it is fun.

topresults on my side with U2VS's still in 1941, against stacked HQ,s and the odd FBD: 2-3000+ losses on .

Against combat units with Il-2m's in 1943, results can be as devastating as you say, when the axis lets you. I am not sure, I thought with AA and Fighters, they could still put up a decent defense.

(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 8
RE: It's totally SAD - 4/19/2016 12:29:06 PM   


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Key is night missions first against the airbases then either fighter sweeps or attacks on units away from his bases to draw him out at max range and soak up his movement before the core attacks

(in reply to ericv)
Post #: 9
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