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[UPDATED 09 JUL 17] TF Normandy, 1991

 
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[UPDATED 09 JUL 17] TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/11/2016 7:42:54 AM   
apache85

 

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This is a scenario I made to recreate the opening shots of the 1991 Gulf War.

It is a small, air-centric scenario involving 8 AH-64A attack helicopters destroying early warning radars along the southern border of Iraq.

Known issues:
Scoring will likely need further tweaking

I have one more revision to this scenario and then it should be finished; any feedback before final version would be greatly appreciated.

UPDATED 0830Z 09 JUL 2017

CoW features added.
To maintain backwards compatibility for users without CoW I will leave v1.01 on this page.

Changelog V1.02 CoW
(Improvement) TFN-1: Add scoring for AAA / SAMs - Complete v1.02 CoW
(Improvement) TFN-2: Add score for successful CSAR - Complete v1.02 CoW
(Feature) TFN-3: Add comms disruption for comms jamming from EF-111s - Complete v1.02 CoW
(Feature) TFN-4: Add aircraft damage model - Complete v1.02 CoW
(Tweak) TFN-7: Allow CH-53s to conduct SAR - Fixed v1.02 CoW
(Cosmetics) TFN-8: Change events to no longer display - Fixed v1.02 CoW


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by apache85 -- 7/9/2017 8:40:45 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/11/2016 11:52:57 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 4277
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From: The Great White North!
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Took a quick stab at it. 

-Game ends when one AH-64 gets shot down
-Perhaps go Wpns Free, 'there's a war on dont-ya-know...'
-I would add a couple OH-58D to the mix.  They would normally do the target indication for the AH-64s until the Longbow and even long after the Longbow came out
-Had a hard time getting the targeting working but probably because I was doing something wrong.  I added an OH-58 and had him hover at 2000ft about 4-5nm out from the target.  Was expecting him to guide the Hellfire's in but couldn't get it to work and had to go in on a 'recce by death' mission to find the close in AAA!
-The MH-53 should be kept for a CSAR task I think, either one you insert as an event or if there is a casualty in this mission (tricky to set up but doable)
-I would also keep the FARP, have it teleport or Lua it in about 30 min after the 47's park for about 15 min.  If you put a second set of targets in quite deep and put the FARP on the far side of this initial radars, it gives the player a decent problem to coordinate.

Nice little one

B

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 2
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/11/2016 11:56:03 PM   
magi

 

Posts: 1423
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i will check this out...

i personally like plausible mission oriented scenario that require/allow the use conventional given tactics/doctrine... i am not fond of many scenarios that for the sake of game play.. confine you with unrealistic time lines.. impeding istar.. unnatural area restrictions etc etc.... lack of some reasonable intel.. unreal restrictions to maneuver.. poor composition/disposition for the given mission.. if its a meeting engagement or a surprise defensive situation.. then ok.. that a different deal....


(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 3
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/12/2016 12:24:06 AM   
magi

 

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the briefing is very good... like it a lot.... i adeed some oh-58d's per gunners suggestion.. to try out...

well here is a little deal... other than brave... your call signs dont match...



< Message edited by magi -- 4/12/2016 12:47:43 AM >

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 4
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/12/2016 2:58:49 AM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1779
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Took a quick stab at it. 

-Game ends when one AH-64 gets shot down
-Perhaps go Wpns Free, 'there's a war on dont-ya-know...'
-I would add a couple OH-58D to the mix.  They would normally do the target indication for the AH-64s until the Longbow and even long after the Longbow came out
-Had a hard time getting the targeting working but probably because I was doing something wrong.  I added an OH-58 and had him hover at 2000ft about 4-5nm out from the target.  Was expecting him to guide the Hellfire's in but couldn't get it to work and had to go in on a 'recce by death' mission to find the close in AAA!
-The MH-53 should be kept for a CSAR task I think, either one you insert as an event or if there is a casualty in this mission (tricky to set up but doable)
-I would also keep the FARP, have it teleport or Lua it in about 30 min after the 47's park for about 15 min.  If you put a second set of targets in quite deep and put the FARP on the far side of this initial radars, it gives the player a decent problem to coordinate.

Nice little one

B


Thanks very much for the feedback. I'll respond point by point.

-The scoring/scen end was a little harsh, I've tweaked it. Initially if you lost an Apache before destroying anything significant the scenario ended. Now you have to lose more than one before inflicting any serious damage to lose the scen early. This is based on the RL result of zero losses.

-I'll look into this today, as far as I can tell it's not historically accurate but if it adds something cool or interesting I'll definitely add it. On a side-note, I love the Kiowa almost as much as I love the little bird, and if it doesn't make it into this scenario it will be in another soon

-In the real operation the MH-53's used their (new, exotic) GPS navigation to guide the Apaches to the target. The Apaches had doppler navigation system that needed to be refreshed with known landmarks--the absence of which would have probably led to the Apaches getting lost and not finding the radar sites. I am thinking of ways to implement this, whether it's putting the MH-53s on a seperate side and having them route to the targets automatically (and if the Apaches lose sight/get too far away they get lost); or have them under player control and use lua to create a semi-randomised route to the targets that the player can follow. Both feel a bit cumbersome so I need to work out a way that makes the MH-53s vital as they were in RL but is also fun to play.

As for CSAR I really want that to be a part of this scenario, but I also want it to be fun, accurate and challenging. I haven't figured out a way to do that yet.

-FARP stays, thanks for the feedback. I've set up an event that will add it when the CH-47s arrive at the site. Personally I think 15 mins is fair, but from experience if the time required on station is too long most players will think the event is broken or inadvertently fly their helicopters out of the zone before the timer counts down. I'll tweak this to find a balance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: magi

the briefing is very good... like it a lot.... i adeed some oh-58d's per gunners suggestion.. to try out...

well here is a little deal... other than brave... your call signs dont match...


The briefing needs a LOT of work. I started writing it then realised Red October was on TV and then next minute it was 1am... The call-signs aren't very good either, I managed to find out what the real ones were and am updating that now

Thanks to both of you for the feedback, I'll have a new version out today.

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 5
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/12/2016 5:01:07 AM   
magi

 

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well... i did play it... the kiowa's didnt do anything... the Apaches did all the targeting and the work...

i like it for its historic perspective... however i wouldnt mind another layer of events.... what else was going on that night...

what i like about your briefing... is the tone and structure... it sounds like you've experienced them... like the real deal... they just need cleaning up in detail... which is somewhat confusing... like whos on first base...

< Message edited by magi -- 4/12/2016 5:08:05 AM >

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 6
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/12/2016 6:03:33 AM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1779
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: magi
what i like about your briefing... is the tone and structure... it sounds like you've experienced them... like the real deal... they just need cleaning up in detail... which is somewhat confusing... like whos on first base...


Who is.

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 7
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/12/2016 6:14:30 AM   
magi

 

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what...? thats what i said....

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 8
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/14/2016 7:13:30 AM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1779
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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Updates for 0.95

MH-53s are now relevant; auto-detect for the target radar sites is set to off until the MH-53s reach their waypoints. Theoretically you can leave them at home, but you will have trouble finding the targets (which represents the historical situation)

Fixed scoring so that scenario doesn't end prematurely. Now you can lose one aircraft early on, and more as you inflict further damage on the enemy. This is to simulate higher command aborting the mission if losses are high relative to effectiveness. I'm working on balance with this.

Changed Iraqi RoE based on whether they get advanced warning of inbound aircraft. Keeping your helos low and stealthy will give you an advantage while getting detected early will mean the enemy will be alerted.

Added simple script for establishment of FARP. Unfortunately it has nothing in it's magazines; I'll probably need to change this but for the moment you will need to play with 'Unlimited Ammo at Airbases' 'ON'.

Did some work on the briefing, still need to do a little more. I've got some ideas to make this more interesting and immersive.

Added CSAR feature; if one of the AH-64s gets shot down wreckage and a downed aircrew are generated. Moving the designated CSAR helo to the location nets points and cleans up the aircrew marker. There is also a fairly robust response from allied fixed wing assets assigned to close air support for the CSAR mission. At the moment I've only enabled this to happen once because it's complex and I want to make sure it works well before making it even more complex.

Fixed side postures and 'computer-only' settings

Added various messages to keep the player informed

Lots of other little tweaks

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 9
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/15/2016 5:29:00 AM   
magi

 

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cool...

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 10
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/28/2016 3:40:21 PM   
marksi10

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 8/1/2015
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Hi, I was looking forward to playing this one but it wouldn´t load - anyone else had this problem?

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 11
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/28/2016 7:52:43 PM   
stolypin

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 12/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marksi10

Hi, I was looking forward to playing this one but it wouldn´t load - anyone else had this problem?


It loads for me using Build 823.

I'm just starting to play it. Looks very interesting.

(in reply to marksi10)
Post #: 12
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/28/2016 9:51:29 PM   
mikkey


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From: Slovakia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marksi10
Hi, I was looking forward to playing this one but it wouldn´t load - anyone else had this problem?

Mark, try to download and install the latest RC22 - Build 823 . It might help you.

(in reply to marksi10)
Post #: 13
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/29/2016 2:30:00 AM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1779
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marksi10

Hi, I was looking forward to playing this one but it wouldn´t load - anyone else had this problem?


Hi marksi10, I just tested it on build 823 / RC 22 and had no issues. The download link above from mikkey should help.


quote:

ORIGINAL: stolypin

It loads for me using Build 823.

I'm just starting to play it. Looks very interesting.



Glad it's working! I would love to hear any feedback you have.

(in reply to marksi10)
Post #: 14
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 4/29/2016 7:55:52 PM   
stolypin

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 12/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85


quote:

ORIGINAL: marksi10

Hi, I was looking forward to playing this one but it wouldn´t load - anyone else had this problem?


Hi marksi10, I just tested it on build 823 / RC 22 and had no issues. The download link above from mikkey should help.


quote:

ORIGINAL: stolypin

It loads for me using Build 823.

I'm just starting to play it. Looks very interesting.



Glad it's working! I would love to hear any feedback you have.


I played it twice, had a Minor Defeat the first time (lost 2 Apaches) and an Average result the second time (lost one Apache but rescued the crew).

Very nice.

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 15
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 2/19/2017 2:57:35 PM   
chrispman

 

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Sorry to resurrect an old thread, just tried this cool scenario but I am getting destroyed...

Main problem seems to be this:

Weapon: AGM-114A Hellfire #428 cannot have its target illuminated... will impact with severe accuracy reduction.


regards

(in reply to stolypin)
Post #: 16
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 2/19/2017 7:24:56 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
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What version of the game are you using?

Thanks!

Mike

_____________________________


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Post #: 17
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 2/19/2017 8:35:04 PM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1779
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: commanderchrisp

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, just tried this cool scenario but I am getting destroyed...

Main problem seems to be this:

Weapon: AGM-114A Hellfire #428 cannot have its target illuminated... will impact with severe accuracy reduction.


regards


Not at all, I've been practicing Lua the past few days so I will give this scenario some love with an update in the next week or so. Glad you're enjoying it.

(in reply to chrispman)
Post #: 18
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 2/20/2017 12:53:18 PM   
chrispman

 

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Build 906.21. I think I updated the database with deep rebuild...
quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

What version of the game are you using?

Thanks!

Mike


(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 19
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 2/20/2017 1:12:24 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
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Thanks guys

I've added a ticket for this but for now the work around is to turn off the Maintain Standoff ROE under Anti Surface Warfare. Its trying to shoot an turn however when it does there may be some terrain in the way etc.

Thanks!

Mike

_____________________________


(in reply to chrispman)
Post #: 20
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 2/21/2017 10:21:39 AM   
Dimitris


Posts: 11890
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: commanderchrisp

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, just tried this cool scenario but I am getting destroyed...

Main problem seems to be this:

Weapon: AGM-114A Hellfire #428 cannot have its target illuminated... will impact with severe accuracy reduction.


regards


Fixed in Build 912.

_____________________________


(in reply to chrispman)
Post #: 21
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 7/9/2017 8:41:26 AM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1779
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
Updated with CoW features

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 22
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 7/9/2017 11:55:35 AM   
chrispman

 

Posts: 101
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Great! Will give it a try as soon as I can find some time!


(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 23
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 7/9/2017 9:37:26 PM   
temkc5

 

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Thank you so much for the update it's a really good scenario

_____________________________

Non mihi, Non tibi, Sed nobis


(in reply to chrispman)
Post #: 24
RE: TF Normandy, 1991 - 7/15/2017 10:45:52 AM   
RafaleKiwi


Posts: 34
Joined: 12/20/2014
Status: offline
Just had a go of this scenario for the first time - some unpleasant surprises but highly recommended.

One of my AH-64s went down and I don't even know how! Was happily flying along low and dumb RTB when a CSAR kicks in - a very nice touch.

Ready liked the Forward Air Refueling Point also, perhaps I didn't understand the brief as I set up FARP X-Ray straight away and then planned to get White and Red to respective WP at 0215. The special message once X-Ray was established implied that White and Red should have been at WP already.

Played with CoW aircraft damage enabled which didn't seem to make any difference - a hit from 37mm and it was over for the second Apache just unlucky as Air PoH for that weapon is 1% and it does 1DP and the AH-64 has 5 DP - Must of taken out something vital.

Very well written and enjoyable - thanks.

Results:

SIDE: United States
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x AH-64A Apache


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
61x AGM-114A Hellfire
133x HYDRA 70mm Rocket
106x 30mm M230 Burst [40 rnds]



SIDE: Iraq
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
4x 23mm ZSU-23-4 Shilka
2x Radar (Spoon Rest D [P-18])
2x Diesel (40k Liter Tank)
8x Vehicle (Truck, Unarmed)
24x 14.5mm/79 ZPU-4 Quad
3x SA-14 Gremlin [9K34 Strela-3] MANPADS
5x Building (Tents)
4x 23mm ZU-23-2
3x SA-7b Grail [9K32M Strela-2M] MANPADS
1x Structure (Generator)
2x Radar (Flat Face B [P-19])
2x Radar (Side Net HF [PRV-11])
4x SA-9b Gaskin [BRDM-2] TEL 2
6x 37mm/63 M1939
2x Radar (Squat Eye [P-15M(2)])
1x Vehicle (ELINT [Simple])
1x 7.62mm MG


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
9x SA-14 Gremlin [9M36]
3x SA-7b Grail [9M32M]
4x 14.5mm/79 ZPU-4 Quad Burst [120 rnds]
33x 37mm/63 M1939 [5 rnds]
16x 23mm ZSU-23-4 Shilka Burst [50 rnds]
3x 23mm ZU-23-2 Burst [20 rnds]

(in reply to temkc5)
Post #: 25
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