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Biggest Complaint - 3/12/2016 6:34:53 PM   
Tiger88_slith


Posts: 57
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline
So - really enjoying the heck out of this game....but....

My biggest complaint is the AI - on normal - seems my units cant hit Jack Shiola - but the AI - can kill at random. To me this is very unrealistic first of all - and 2nd sucks the enjoyment out of playing this game!

I just had an American Bazooka team blow away 3 Squads and Leader from 4 hexes out - the Bazooka teams max range!

Loosing damn near every scenario I play. The scenario #3 - as germans - My tiger tank could not hit crap! Than the American TD cleans up on my Tiger from 8hexes... just seems the AI is very out of whack and too strong.

I am wondering if other players have this same feeling as I?
Post #: 1
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/12/2016 6:54:20 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline
I wasn't aware that the AI was given any bonus or column shifts when firing, if this is true it would be good to know. Since the system uses random number generators (aka dice) then there could always be extreme results no matter if it's AI or not.

Do you remember what the American bazooka team was? Half squad? Full squad? Airborne? Then we would know the firepower they possess. What were your defending units doing? moving in the open? sitting in cover? what kind of cover?

Are you using the ASL Mod which gives you numerical data on the range and firepower?

I tend to find the opposite result, units in cover can hammer away at each other turn after turn with little result unless you stack up a lot of firepower against the target.

I haven't had many vehicle vs vehicle fights yet but the tests I ran in the editor showed pretty believable results with early war 37mm battles vs early German tanks. I have noticed in replays that later war tank duels seem very bloody with most hits being kills.


(in reply to Tiger88_slith)
Post #: 2
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/12/2016 7:24:04 PM   
Gerry4321

 

Posts: 858
Joined: 3/24/2003
Status: offline
Peter has said the AI does not get a bonus.

(in reply to Monkie)
Post #: 3
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/12/2016 7:33:45 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2431
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry

Peter has said the AI does not get a bonus.


Correct

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 4
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/12/2016 7:55:36 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline
With that possibility eliminated you would have to look at the firepower, defensive terrain bonus and what the units were doing when fired upon to get an accurate idea of the AI's chances at eliminating 3 squads and a leader from approx. 160 meters range.

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 5
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/12/2016 8:59:20 PM   
idjester

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tiger 88

So - really enjoying the heck out of this game....but....

My biggest complaint is the AI - on normal - seems my units cant hit Jack Shiola - but the AI - can kill at random. To me this is very unrealistic first of all - and 2nd sucks the enjoyment out of playing this game!

I just had an American Bazooka team blow away 3 Squads and Leader from 4 hexes out - the Bazooka teams max range!

Loosing damn near every scenario I play. The scenario #3 - as germans - My tiger tank could not hit crap! Than the American TD cleans up on my Tiger from 8hexes... just seems the AI is very out of whack and too strong.

I am wondering if other players have this same feeling as I?


More than likely this comes down to your moving and firing while the enemy is staying still and firing at you. Trying to hit something after moving is very hard, try throwing a football while on the run with any accuracy is near impossible.
There are huge penalties for moving and firing or being in motion while trying to fire.

My last help for anyone playing this game is... this game is based upon several dice rolls (ASL system)... there is a dice roll for an attack and a dice roll for defense of that attack. So that means anything can happen and that is why people love to play ASL type games. I can take a single half squad and wipe out a few squads based upon those dies rolls that happen. I get one good one and you roll badly and blam your in trouble.

My advice is to watch a few of the videos out there and see what you might be doing wrong or get advice for how to play. I have created many videos just for this purpose to help players learn the system. Last night live steam dealt with many helpful hints and tips to help players.

ASL type games are not easy to conquer quickly until you learn the points about how to use your untis. The movement phase, defensive fire phase, and rout phase are vital important to learn about and know what your best options are.

< Message edited by idjester -- 3/12/2016 10:39:37 PM >

(in reply to Tiger88_slith)
Post #: 6
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/12/2016 9:26:15 PM   
36142CP

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 3/1/2016
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
Wise words from the master The numerous modifiers and unlucky dice rolls all mixed in take their toll. I think it's easy to forget with a PC game that behind the scenes ALL the modifiers are considered by the AI, as over the board in real life we actually seem them working because we have to work them out, as with PC games they are 'hidden' or overlooked if you see what I mean. Sometimes it's easy to go through the motions on a PC game and click, click then realise there was a modifier for this or that which I forgot to consider prior to completing the previous phase etc. Hope that makes sense. My thoughts!

(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 7
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/12/2016 9:35:09 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2431
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: idjester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tiger 88

So - really enjoying the heck out of this game....but....

My biggest complaint is the AI - on normal - seems my units cant hit Jack Shiola - but the AI - can kill at random. To me this is very unrealistic first of all - and 2nd sucks the enjoyment out of playing this game!

I just had an American Bazooka team blow away 3 Squads and Leader from 4 hexes out - the Bazooka teams max range!

Loosing damn near every scenario I play. The scenario #3 - as germans - My tiger tank could not hit crap! Than the American TD cleans up on my Tiger from 8hexes... just seems the AI is very out of whack and too strong.

I am wondering if other players have this same feeling as I?


More than likely this comes down to your moving and firing while the enemy is stilling still and firing at you. Trying to hit something after moving is very hard, try throwing a football while on the run with any accuracy is near impossible.
There are huge penalties for moving and firing or being in motion while trying to fire.

My last help for anyone playing this game is... this game is based upon several dice rolls (ASL system)... there is a dice roll for an attack and a dice roll for defense of that attack. So that means anything can happen and that is why people love to play ASL type games. I can take a single half squad and wipe out a few squads based upon those dies rolls that happen. I get one good one and you roll badly and blam your in trouble.

My advice is to watch a few of the videos out there and see what you might be doing wrong or get advice for how to play. I have created many videos just for this purpose to help players learn the system. Last night live steam dealt with many helpful hints and tips to help players.

ASL type games are not easy to conquer quickly until you learn the points about how to use your untis. The movement phase, defensive fire phase, and rout phase are vital important to learn about and know what your best options are.


You are the man idjester, pure poetry ! :)

(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 8
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/12/2016 11:35:29 PM   
MikeMarchant_ssl

 

Posts: 80
Joined: 2/26/2016
Status: offline
I had the same feeling when playing 'Desperate Counterattack' as the Germans.

It seemed that a single US infantry unit could break everything I had while I was in a stone building, but I couldn't twitch the curtains of his stone buildings even when blasting it with ridiculous amounts of firepower. And then, every rally phase his units (without leaders) self rallied every turn, while my units who had better morale couldn't rally even with a decent leader present.

But, at the end of the day, that's just how the dice roll sometimes. You just have to sigh, start again, and have another go, hoping the gods of war will be on your side this time.


Best Wishes

Mike

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 9
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/13/2016 5:52:06 AM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1240
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
I had a StuG III keep RoF 4 times and kill 3 T-34's who was then subsequently dispatched by another T-34. Another game, my mortars went the entire game without keeping RoF. IMHO, good and bad 'dice rolls' seem to come in batches, just like occasionally having hot or cold dice on the table.

< Message edited by Double Deuce -- 3/13/2016 5:53:41 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to MikeMarchant_ssl)
Post #: 10
RE: Biggest Complaint - 3/13/2016 6:41:36 AM   
Krys

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 2/25/2016
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: idjester

quote:

More than likely this comes down to your moving and firing while the enemy is staying still and firing at you. Trying to hit something after moving is very hard, try throwing a football while on the run with any accuracy is near impossible.

There are huge penalties for moving and firing or being in motion while trying to fire.


As I was reading the original post I immediately thought that he was probably firing while moving - which is very, very difficult in TOTH. Yes, the Abrams and other AFVs from the modern era can go that successfully, but in the mid 1940s it was extremely hard to hit anything while on the move.

Great answer from idjester! (which quite frankly should surprise no one who's been on these forums for a while)

_____________________________

So many games...so little time...

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(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 11
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