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RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 6/10/2016 2:10:42 AM   
JoV

 

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Hi Andy, I've been lurking in here for a while hoping to see an updated version of the scenarios in the first post, but if you are still looking for feedback I will start up a game playing as Japan in Scen 1 and hope to be able to provide some feedback as I (slowly) get along.

Cheers for all the work

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 151
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 6/14/2016 2:53:32 PM   
Lecivius


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I'm slogging along into Oct '42, and having a ball. Thanks for putting this together

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Post #: 152
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 6/23/2016 9:52:42 PM   
Kull


Posts: 1541
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Anyone playing scen 1 or 2 feedback would be helpfull


Taking Scen2 out for a spin (Allies vs. Jap AI). To speed things up, I haven't done too much - put fighters on CAP, getting ships out of the more dangerous locations, put all subs into Patrol mode in the usual areas, and setting up a bunch of CS convoys. Very little movement of troops and no army bug outs.

Through the first 4 turns the AI is on the usual pace. One noticeable thing - there's a flood of Jap subs heading West from Pearl. Not sure if you can do anything to keep most of them on patrol there in the early going.

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Post #: 153
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/1/2016 5:13:24 PM   
Lecivius


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Having gotten to '43, I can say no serious bugs found. I don't want to post much, for fear of ruining other peoples fun. And make no mistake, this IS the most fun for AI I have found in any WITP game.

One observation is the Rufe. As you note, you didn't change it. But I do think there may be more to it under the hood that is realized. And since it has limited exposure in other scenarios, perhaps no one has noticed. I have not flipped to look at the Japanese OOB, because I want the entire thing to stay as a surprise. So these guys may have been given 99 EXP or something. But I have seen over Lunga a group of 20 Rufes on CAP at 6000 ft climb above 11 B-17E's with @ 61 EXP at 35000 ft with 6 minutes warning, dive, and shoot every one of them down (August 8 1942). That was hard to take, especially since that is above the ceiling of a Rufe, and beyond their climb rate. I have seen 42 Rufes over Milne Bay intercept an alpha strike made by 5 carriers (Dec 25 1942), including 86 F4F-4's on Escort trained to @ 69 EXP on average, and literally gut the entire package (losses were around 40 to 1). That's a tough pill to swallow Everything else I can handle, but the Rufe, and how it performs in this game, is more like a MiG-25

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Post #: 154
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/3/2016 7:28:39 PM   
mussey


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Andy, once again I offer my thanks for working hard to make a better AI. I'm a bit late maybe to add some observations but I'll offer a few if it helps:

- more bases in Australia! Nice. I noticed Reid River has a level 1 port, but unable to sail to it (like Nadzab). Anxious to see how AI uses these extra bases here and Burma...
- Force Z not spotted/targeted so I sailed back to Sing where 23 unescorted Nells were downed by 22 Buff on 12/8. So Force Z survives!
- At PH, x5 BB's survived thru 12/8... On 12/8 Cmb Flt had weak strike 8 Zeros/22 Kates, but were destroyed. Lihue was hit by 19 Zeros/15 Vals. It now sits 8 hexes to the w/nw of Pearl.
- have AI on 'Historical' difficulty.

A few more later.

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Post #: 155
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/3/2016 8:40:58 PM   
mussey


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One more before I go...

on 12/9: johnston raided, KB sits 6 hexes to the north of it on 12/10 about 25 hexes due east of my CV forces raiding Wake invasion...
- Lex/Enter CV's launch air attack vs Jap invasion of Wake, 15 Rufe's vs 20 Buff/wildcats/34 SBD's, most Rufes shot down, many jap ships hit, but Wake is captured! I think I'll try to exit the area west of the Marshall's to evade the oncoming KB!!! Am I trapped?...

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Post #: 156
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/5/2016 2:30:46 PM   
Lecivius


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You shot down the Rufes? They went through my Buffalo's like they were paper airplanes I did have height advantage, I'm curious as to what you are doing that I am not

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Post #: 157
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/5/2016 11:05:08 PM   
mussey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

You shot down the Rufes? They went through my Buffalo's like they were paper airplanes I did have height advantage, I'm curious as to what you are doing that I am not

Just a normal CV strike w/fighters on 50% escort at 10k ft. I saw your earlier post about them, so I wanted to see for myself how this was played out. I wonder if their was an Andy update from your download to mine which was on 7/2?...

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Post #: 158
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/6/2016 1:55:39 PM   
Lecivius


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Interesting. In my last example I had a carefully hoarded & trained group of F4F-4 fighters escorting a group towards some shipping around Milne. The fighters had @ 69 EXP a2A and some good defensive EXP as well, but the entire raid just got shredded. Maybe I will look on the other side. I just would hate to until after I 'run the table'. It would take a lot of the fun away

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Post #: 159
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/6/2016 5:17:25 PM   
mussey


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As I move forward in my game I'll stay attuned to the Rufie issue. I'm on 12/10/42 (a 5 hour turn!)...

Did Andy update this since your download?

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Post #: 160
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/6/2016 5:55:19 PM   
Lecivius


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To the best of my knowledge, no. Considering what I was experiencing, I assumed ( NEVER do that! ) he had jumped them up to 99 EXP or something. Maybe I just got hit in the butt with a banjo?

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Post #: 161
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/10/2016 4:10:13 PM   
mussey


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12/30/41

The 3 Australian Div is loading for PM with a x2 CV TF as escort. Iron man is just now landing on Rabaul. I'm anxious to see if this version will handle PM differently. He never went overland from Buna, instead using countless smaller amphib assaults....

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Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


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Post #: 162
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/12/2016 8:45:16 AM   
Yaab


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My scen 33 show that three Beaufighters(id 60,165,166) and Hurricane IV (id 86) are now flagged as attack bombers. All four are classified as level bombers. Is this WAD?

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Post #: 163
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/12/2016 3:07:26 PM   
mussey


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Interestingly I destroyed a x2 AK TF 7 hexes west off Benkoelen. 1/13/42. While neither Sumatra nor Java has been invaded... Not sure where it was headed...

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Post #: 164
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/24/2016 4:32:13 PM   
mussey


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2/3/42
11 Jap XX captured Owen Stanley from Buna. I already have 3 Aus XX, Lark Bn, 30 X, etc at PM in case it moves here.

On another note, Ironman has not provided air CAP over this area and my x2 CV was able to launch a damaging launch against Trans/Amphib TF's at Buna, Salm, and Lae against 0 Jap CAP. In several days I'll be sending P-39 sqdn to PM while several others are still training in Oz.

I'm curious (but dubious) if the editor can create mixed squadrons of Zero/Betty units? Say x5 Zero's/x15 Bettys so that AI has Escorts? Or a way to have dedicated paired sqns of the same? Several months ago Andy was thinking of either extending the range of one or the other to help AI provide better escort coverage, not sure how he's faring on this...

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Post #: 165
RE: Tier 3 Ironman - 7/28/2016 2:57:31 PM   
joliverlay

 

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Scenario 103 Nasty, I'm in mid January and Japan attacked the Soviet Union. Is this working as intended? I would prefer a soviet inactive scenario as it is hard enough to deal with the naval aspects of the game.

Great game. I find the regular Ironman a bit dull now. The challenge of the nasty tier 3 is greatly appreciated.

(in reply to btd64)
Post #: 166
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/30/2016 11:36:55 AM   
quertice


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From: Italy - Sicily
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Weird this is the latest with the working version of script 2 still testing it myself but just in case it helps

ps I have said it before I really recmmmend helping the allies a bit in these scens (a large selection of ironman Allied Naval and Air units as well as aircraft have been left IN the scen files but disabled to make it easier to add in.

I play on 4 day turns un less something important is happening and I recently was in deep crap by Oct 42 v this script with a few extra allied toys.....



I'm trying it

tracker is running, but it gives these warnings:




< Message edited by qwetry -- 7/30/2016 11:37:09 AM >


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Post #: 167
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 7/30/2016 12:46:40 PM   
PaxMondo


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Those are aircraft in convoys .. don't worry about that warning ... perfectly normal for an ironman game.

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Pax

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Post #: 168
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/1/2016 11:41:46 AM   
quertice


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From: Italy - Sicily
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and this?





I don't remember so shortage of resources for allied with stock scenarios, particularly I don't remember resources shortage at Seattle, Los Angeles and San Francisco, but now maybe the first time I use tracker for starting turns

< Message edited by qwetry -- 8/1/2016 11:51:07 AM >


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Post #: 169
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/1/2016 8:47:57 PM   
Yaab


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Typical in the first week of the grand campaign. Before the first big weekly push moves lots of stuff everywhere, you will see a plethora of such messages.

(in reply to quertice)
Post #: 170
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/1/2016 8:57:49 PM   
quertice


Posts: 243
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From: Italy - Sicily
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Thanks, so I'll can carry on this scenario, only five turns played, but it's really enjoyable this ironman tier 3

< Message edited by qwetry -- 8/1/2016 8:59:35 PM >


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Post #: 171
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/2/2016 5:04:02 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14440
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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Thanks all for the feedback struggling with PC issue at present.

(in reply to quertice)
Post #: 172
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/2/2016 5:04:37 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14440
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Thanks much aprciated
quote:

ORIGINAL: JoV

Hi Andy, I've been lurking in here for a while hoping to see an updated version of the scenarios in the first post, but if you are still looking for feedback I will start up a game playing as Japan in Scen 1 and hope to be able to provide some feedback as I (slowly) get along.

Cheers for all the work


(in reply to JoV)
Post #: 173
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/2/2016 5:05:08 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14440
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
XP and a little speed.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

Having gotten to '43, I can say no serious bugs found. I don't want to post much, for fear of ruining other peoples fun. And make no mistake, this IS the most fun for AI I have found in any WITP game.

One observation is the Rufe. As you note, you didn't change it. But I do think there may be more to it under the hood that is realized. And since it has limited exposure in other scenarios, perhaps no one has noticed. I have not flipped to look at the Japanese OOB, because I want the entire thing to stay as a surprise. So these guys may have been given 99 EXP or something. But I have seen over Lunga a group of 20 Rufes on CAP at 6000 ft climb above 11 B-17E's with @ 61 EXP at 35000 ft with 6 minutes warning, dive, and shoot every one of them down (August 8 1942). That was hard to take, especially since that is above the ceiling of a Rufe, and beyond their climb rate. I have seen 42 Rufes over Milne Bay intercept an alpha strike made by 5 carriers (Dec 25 1942), including 86 F4F-4's on Escort trained to @ 69 EXP on average, and literally gut the entire package (losses were around 40 to 1). That's a tough pill to swallow Everything else I can handle, but the Rufe, and how it performs in this game, is more like a MiG-25


(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 174
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/2/2016 5:05:46 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14440
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Na just keep sailing........
quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey

One more before I go...

on 12/9: johnston raided, KB sits 6 hexes to the north of it on 12/10 about 25 hexes due east of my CV forces raiding Wake invasion...
- Lex/Enter CV's launch air attack vs Jap invasion of Wake, 15 Rufe's vs 20 Buff/wildcats/34 SBD's, most Rufes shot down, many jap ships hit, but Wake is captured! I think I'll try to exit the area west of the Marshall's to evade the oncoming KB!!! Am I trapped?...


(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 175
RE: Tier 3 Ironman - 8/2/2016 5:06:45 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14440
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Yes working as intended I did have a second script that didnt have that attack but it was lost in my comp meltdown I think

quote:

ORIGINAL: joliverlay

Scenario 103 Nasty, I'm in mid January and Japan attacked the Soviet Union. Is this working as intended? I would prefer a soviet inactive scenario as it is hard enough to deal with the naval aspects of the game.

Great game. I find the regular Ironman a bit dull now. The challenge of the nasty tier 3 is greatly appreciated.


(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 176
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/2/2016 5:07:53 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14440
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Yes intentional I classified them as attack bombers as the code handles them better IMO as attack bombers than FB's

Andy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

My scen 33 show that three Beaufighters(id 60,165,166) and Hurricane IV (id 86) are now flagged as attack bombers. All four are classified as level bombers. Is this WAD?


(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 177
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/2/2016 5:08:41 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14440
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Thanks to everyone who has posted some feedback

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 178
RE: I need Help - AI Testing - 8/2/2016 9:06:12 PM   
mussey


Posts: 650
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Thanks to everyone who has posted some feedback

Andy, I'm locked into what you're trying to accomplish. I'll play test anything you put forth.

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 179
RE: Tier 3 Ironman - 8/3/2016 1:07:15 AM   
quertice


Posts: 243
Joined: 9/9/2007
From: Italy - Sicily
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I think I have the new Scen1 AI more or less done for Japan going to start work on Allied scen 1 AI next so I have a complete new baseline




I haven't understood, is scenario 1 in first post of this thread playable as Japan side?

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Post #: 180
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